Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary

[EmCatlyn]

I swear, I thought this was a joke at first!

Quote

Prince Harry and his wife Meghan Markle have been granted an award for limiting their family to two children.

Population Matters said it was an "enlightened decision" by the pair, who are parents to two-year-old son Archie and newborn daughter Lili

The charity, which campaigns to achieve a sustainable population, said it was recognising Harry and Meghan with the Special Award for being "a role model for other families”.  Hello Magazine July 10, 2021.

It is not as bad as it sounds; the award of £500 goes to a charity of their choice.  However, given that no one in my family has had more than two children since 1925, I am not impressed.  ??‍♀️  Why didn’t my parents and aunts and uncles get awards?  Why didn’t my cousin and I, and all my friends who have stopped at 2 (or one)? ?  Must be because we are not lapsed royalty.

Anyway, do you all suppose some of the Quiverful people might be inspired to follow the example of these celebrities?  ???

[viii]

Not to mention, majority of the royal family only had two children. George had two children, as did Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward, Peter... it’s not like Harry is defying tradition here. 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, viii said:

Not to mention, majority of the royal family only had two children. George had two children, as did Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward, Peter... it’s not like Harry is defying tradition here. 

Ah, but he and Meghan are an inspiration… (to whom?)

Makes you wonder who nominated them and why.

[viii]

Coughselfnomination cough 

[Xanariel]

In all fairness, it may be just a charity trying to get some attention through selecting a high profile couple. Harry got a fair bit of press when Jane Goodall praised him for the decision, so it's understandable they'd choose the Sussexes for it. 

Though considering the Sussexes' love of private jets, Saudi jewels and gas-guzzling vehicles, I am pretty sure young Archie alone has a carbon footprint that already rivals that of Anna Duggar's entire brood. 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Xanariel

[louisa05]

18 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Ah, but he and Meghan are an inspiration… (to whom?)

Makes you wonder who nominated them and why.

Sunshine Sachs. 

[CrazyMumma]

I'm going to laugh if they change their minds and have a third

Edited July 11, 2021 by CrazyMumma
Missing a word

[Grandma D]

1 hour ago, CrazyMumma said:

I'm going to laugh if they change their minds and have a third

Or what if she gets pregnant by accident! What will they do? 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

5 hours ago, Grandma D said:

Or what if she gets pregnant by accident! What will they do? 

As with any actions that contradict their words, it will be totally fine in their minds and anyone who doesn’t buy their justification is mean and racist.

I would not accept an award for having only two children if I had a nephew who was a third child. Also, of course, the Queen had four, and they should really be making more of an effort to keep sweet with her. Oh, and why the hell didn’t this award go to a childless environmental activist?

[EmCatlyn]

8 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

As with any actions that contradict their words, it will be totally fine in their minds and anyone who doesn’t buy their justification is mean and racist.

I would not accept an award for having only two children if I had a nephew who was a third child. Also, of course, the Queen had four, and they should really be making more of an effort to keep sweet with her. Oh, and why the hell didn’t this award go to a childless environmental activist?

Actually ten people each got the award.  I don’t remember all of them, but one was a woman who wrote a book about being “childfree” and another went to a woman who is fighting against child marriages. 

[viii]

23 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I would not accept an award for having only two children if I had a nephew who was a third child. 

I feel like I remember articles about William being super offended when Harry said to the media they’d only have two children because it’s environmentally responsible. I feel like this was in 2019ish?

[sableduck]

I only wanted two. We announced to the world we would have only two kids.  We took steps after my second to make sure there would be only two kids.

And a third kid still showed up.  I think it’s a little early to be patting them on the back like this.  What a dumb award.

[adidas]

5 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Oh, and why the hell didn’t this award go to a childless environmental activist?

I nominate Leonardo DiCaprio!

[Jasmar]

On 7/1/2021 at 1:19 AM, louisa05 said:

I have a bad feeling he’s going to use it as another chance to air his grievances.  

Dude, Festivus is in December

[just_ordinary]

16 hours ago, viii said:

I feel like I remember articles about William being super offended when Harry said to the media they’d only have two children because it’s environmentally responsible. I feel like this was in 2019ish?

I hope it’s made up. There is no need to get offended if your relatives and friends think it’s better for the environment to have no or less children. Not everything someone believes in means it’s an attack on your life choices and vice versa. If anything they should have a little chuckle and think of all the private jet trips. Limiting the number of children will always be down to personal conviction and preferences (assuming no problems conceiving/carrying to term). I seriously doubt a couple that desperately wants another child will refrain for the environment. They will find other ways to contribute.

[EmCatlyn]

11 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I hope it’s made up. There is no need to get offended if your relatives and friends think it’s better for the environment to have no or less children. Not everything someone believes in means it’s an attack on your life choices and vice versa. If anything they should have a little chuckle and think of all the private jet trips. Limiting the number of children will always be down to personal conviction and preferences (assuming no problems conceiving/carrying to term). I seriously doubt a couple that desperately wants another child will refrain for the environment. They will find other ways to contribute.

I tend to find obnoxious anyone who announces to the world that they are doing/not doing something for some lofty reason.  Just do what you believe in doing quietly. Whether they are having “as many as God sends” or “only one or two because of the environment,” it really is a private matter.  announcing your motives implicitly casts shade on others.

However, I doubt William and Kate saw the announcement as a “dig” at them. 

The thing about being an “example” as to family size is that the people who need to cut back on family size are not likely to be influenced by Meghan and Harry.  Among “Western” countries, the middle-classes have been cutting down on family size since birth control became widely available.  

Generally it is the very rich and the relatively poor who have more than two children.  I doubt that either of these groups will be moved to imitate Harry and Meghan. ??‍♀️

 

 

 

[MamaJunebug]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:28 PM, EmCatlyn said:

I tend to find obnoxious anyone who announces to the world that they are doing/not doing something for some lofty reason.  Just do what you believe in doing quietly.

Alas, I learned it too late, but a wise woman told me: “A bad man tells you what he is, and in fact he’s the exact opposite. So a man who says, ‘I’m a giver, not a taker,’ you can be sure: he’s a taker.”

I admitted that my ex- had done just that, and then I asked her, “But, what does a good man say about himself?”

She replied, “A good man doesn’t have to tell you what he is. His actions speak for him.”

Same thing with H & M, I kinda suspect.  

[nelliebelle1197]

Popped over to see if anyone saw the latest news; over here in the US, the Daily Beast is reporting that the Sussexes, who suffer so under generational pain and find Harry's family so toxic, want the new baby christened in front of the queen at Windsor.  It's behind the paywall so I will see if I can scrape out the text.

Got it!

 

Spoiler

If you love The Daily Beast’s royal coverage, then we hope you’ll enjoy The Royalist, a members-only series for Beast Inside. Become a member to get it in your inbox on Sunday.

Harry and Meghan want Lilibet christened at Windsor

Given all they have said about alleged racism and the hell of royal life, one might imagine Prince Harry and Meghan Markle would want daughter Lilibet’s christening to take place far away from what they see as a crucible of incurable dysfunction.

Instead, the Daily Mail reports, the couple want Lilibet christened at Windsor Castle, as her brother Archie was. “Harry told several people that they want to have Lili christened at Windsor, just like her brother,” a royal source told the Mail. “They are happy to wait until circumstances allow.”

If the mooted christening, attended by the queen, went ahead, it would be Meghan’s first visit to U.K. since couple left Britain, and would also follow the storm of controversy over the naming of Lilibet, the queen’s nickname within the family. Harry and Meghan have indicated they sought permission to use the name, and said they told the queen about their intention to do so. But a royal source subsequently told the BBC that the the couple had not spoken to the queen about using the name.

The row, as The Daily Beast reported, culminated with Meghan and Harry threatening to sue British media for reporting that the queen felt there had been a lack of consultation with her about their use of her nickname, Lilibet, as the child’s first name, and the queen—via her official spokespeople—saying she would not be disputing the BBC story.

Camilla gets warm wishes from William and Kate

A public message of birthday congratulations from William and Kate to Camilla was posted on social media on Saturday.

It may seem a small thing, but in the carefully choreographed world of the royals, where nothing happens by accident, it’s worth attending to.

This is the fifth year in a row in which the Cambridges have sent Camilla birthday wishes, despite the fact that William is said to be, along with his brother, implacably opposed to his stepmother taking the title of queen when Charles ascends the throne. Charles, as The Daily Beast has previously reported, is said by some sources to intend to unilaterally declare Camilla queen when he is named king, despite having previously and publicly pledged to make her a mere Princess Consort out of deference to Diana’s memory.

Of course, Charles has shown readiness to completely and ruthlessly reverse course on the titular fate of another member of the royal family in recent days. His brother, Prince Edward, will reportedly no longer be getting the title of Duke of Edinburgh that was promised to him by Charles and the queen in a public statement made on the occasion of Edward’s wedding in 1999.

William and Kate’s ongoing warm words for Camilla on her birthday must give Charles hope, however, that his heir can be won round to his Queen Camilla dream.

Fergie on Diana

Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York, has given an interview to People magazine to promote her new romantic novel, entitled Her Heart for a Compass. In the course of the conversation she discussed Princess Diana, saying: “If she were sitting with me right now, I know she would say, ‘I am so proud of both of my boys and the wonderful wives they have chosen.’ Because each has got her own voice.”

One can’t help wondering if she wouldn’t also be immensely saddened, however, by the fact that William and Harry fell out so spectacularly that they now live 5,000 miles apart and their children hardly know each other.

 

[just_ordinary]

As the Queen hasn’t attended the christenings of Louis and Archie, and August, Luke and York II aren’t christened yet to prove otherwise, it might very well be she won’t attend this one either. If it’s even true. I don’t think either of them is actually religious and Lili does not need to have a religious affiliation to stay in the line of succession. I mean, a christening is a big family celebration and a nice occasion to come together. If their private relationships are recovering, this would be lovely. But the last we heard is that he is basically suffering from panic attacks when forced to come home and seems to be not only getting the cold shoulder from his father abs brother but also from HMTQ herself lately. Why you would even want this, believing everyone is just there to put on a show, gritting their teeth- I don’t think it’s true. On the other hand, they still insist on their titles and all.

We’ll see I guess. 
In other notes- it’s great to see that their Netflix deal finally comes up with a possibly cool thing. I hate how everyone acts as if she has basically written it herself. They are co-producing it. It’s not their brainchild. But the idea sounds cool enough and if they don’t try too hard it could be a wonderful series.

[louisa05]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

As the Queen hasn’t attended the christenings of Louis and Archie, and August, Luke and York II aren’t christened yet to prove otherwise, it might very well be she won’t attend this one either. If it’s even true. I don’t think either of them is actually religious and Lili does not need to have a religious affiliation to stay in the line of succession. I mean, a christening is a big family celebration and a nice occasion to come together. If their private relationships are recovering, this would be lovely. But the last we heard is that he is basically suffering from panic attacks when forced to come home and seems to be not only getting the cold shoulder from his father abs brother but also from HMTQ herself lately. Why you would even want this, believing everyone is just there to put on a show, gritting their teeth- I don’t think it’s true. On the other hand, they still insist on their titles and all.

We’ll see I guess. 
In other notes- it’s great to see that their Netflix deal finally comes up with a possibly cool thing. I hate how everyone acts as if she has basically written it herself. They are co-producing it. It’s not their brainchild. But the idea sounds cool enough and if they don’t try too hard it could be a wonderful series.

Something tells me they’ll try too hard. 

[viii]

I’ve given up on trying to figure out their choices. 

[EmCatlyn]

@NelleBelle I suspect most of that report by the Daily Beast is just rumor.  I think it’s possible that Harry wants his daughter christened in England, but I doubt that they are greatly concerned about the Queen being present for the ceremony.  I don’t think she was present for Archie’s. 

The “Charles wants Camilla to be Queen but Will and Harry oppose it story” has been around for a while, but I am not convinced it’s true.  I believe Charles would like Camilla to be his Queen, but I don’t think he is going to push it.  He knows it would be very unpopular and would cause problems beyond how his sons may feel.  The real problem is that Camilla is a Divorced Woman and (even if there were no drama about Diana) there would be issues with a Divorced Woman becoming Queen.  So it’s not just a question of getting Will and Harry to agree.  Their support might help, but it won’t be what will make it possible.

The new “Charles won’t let Edward have the Duke of Edinburg title” story sounds to me totally improbable.  I don’t think Charles has any intention of denying his brother a title that he (Charles) already agreed would come to Edward.  As king, he will need the continued support of Edward and Sophie, and from what I gather he is not feuding with Edward.  I could see him refusing to let the title go to Edward’s heirs, but that’s a different matter.)

The press keeps coming up with new things that Charles is supposedly going to do or not do when he is king.  It’s all just speculation.
 

[MamaJunebug]

2 hours ago, viii said:

I’ve given up on trying to figure out their choices. 

I'm not a big royals-watcher but I enjoyed seeing "The King's Speech" again today.  The scene where David & Wallis moon-eye each other, listening to GeorgeVI's war speech, reminded a bit of H&M.

As did the scene where David is combing the cellars for "the best" liquor, which "Wallis demands and gets."  

"What Meghan/Wallis wants ...."

So if I'm not a big royals-watcher, why'm I here?

Well, for "The King's Speech," Geoffrey Rush; and Colin Firth and Colin and Jennifer Ehle in a scene together 20-odd years after "Pride & Prejudice (1995)."  And did I mention Geoffrey Rush and Helena B-C?

And for H&M .... it's interesting enough drama, and it doesn't affect me or anybody I know.  Their antics are curiously similar to some in my own family of origin - an in-law who came from a toxic background and spread the toxicity thick around us, etc.  Interesting to see how the 0.01% navigate the same pitfalls we do ... money aside, of course.

Anyhoodles, thanks all for some interesting reading, opinions and insights! Very enjoyable over here.

[just_ordinary]

8 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

@NelleBelle I suspect most of that report by the Daily Beast is just rumor.  I think it’s possible that Harry wants his daughter christened in England, but I doubt that they are greatly concerned about the Queen being present for the ceremony.  I don’t think she was present for Archie’s. 

The “Charles wants Camilla to be Queen but Will and Harry oppose it story” has been around for a while, but I am not convinced it’s true.  I believe Charles would like Camilla to be his Queen, but I don’t think he is going to push it.  He knows it would be very unpopular and would cause problems beyond how his sons may feel.  The real problem is that Camilla is a Divorced Woman and (even if there were no drama about Diana) there would be issues with a Divorced Woman becoming Queen.  So it’s not just a question of getting Will and Harry to agree.  Their support might help, but it won’t be what will make it possible.

The new “Charles won’t let Edward have the Duke of Edinburg title” story sounds to me totally improbable.  I don’t think Charles has any intention of denying his brother a title that he (Charles) already agreed would come to Edward.  As king, he will need the continued support of Edward and Sophie, and from what I gather he is not feuding with Edward.  I could see him refusing to let the title go to Edward’s heirs, but that’s a different matter.)

The press keeps coming up with new things that Charles is supposedly going to do or not do when he is king.  It’s all just speculation.
 

I disagree. Camilla being divorced is not a problem at all (at least for the majority of the u80). It is indeed the Diana story that’s still hanging over them. The hysteria around those three people was insane. I don’t think I have ever seen something like that again, where all age groups went ballistic. Camilla was the other woman. And she won. And Diana died. Some people cannot let go. And some people just love to bring it up to keep gossiping about them. The other woman cannot officially use the Princess of Wales title, wear the Lover’s knot tiara or be called Queen. Tabloids would love it, years of headlines to stir shit. 
As almost all of the Queens children and her sister divorced, and as divorce is not the big taboo even in higher classes or society in general anymore, that’s really not the tripping stone here. I know some like to make it out to be important, but it has the same quality as the some fashion choice “breaking protocol”, H&M are “conducting high treason”, religion and line of succession comments. They are an entertaining read but if you look into it, it’s a bunch of nonsense.

I do think Charles cares about her titles, but I doubt Camilla does.

It’s a curse and blessing they are so old now. People had time to adapt, they proved themselves and their commitment, let the Diana hysteria die down. I think most people would shrug their shoulders if they put a crown on Queen Camilla's head. Not overly happy but also not really like upset enough. It will be a slaughter house online and in the tabloids though. But being so old, they won’t ever get more sympathy as they do now. Tabloid and public love the shiny young ones. So she can only be the humble hard working country woman never the dazzling charmer.

I do think W&H care still on some level. But as grown ups you realise that reality is different and you deal with it. I think they can like her and support her, but also feel the grieve and rather not see her and Charles at other times. I think especially, weddings, births, christenings and anniversaries have the opportunity to always be bittersweet. From experience, those things can be immensely triggering. It will always sting. But then, so can be talks about how great the relationship someone has with their parents be. And you cannot expect people to be on their tippy toes all the time, or strangers to put up trigger warnings before everything just because they might affect someone somehow. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by just_ordinary

[QuiverFullofBooks]

11 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:The new “Charles won’t let Edward have the Duke of Edinburg title” story sounds to me totally improbable.  I don’t think Charles has any intention of denying his brother a title that he (Charles) already agreed would come to Edward.  As king, he will need the continued support of Edward and Sophie, and from what I gather he is not feuding with Edward.  I could see him refusing to let the title go to Edward’s heirs, but that’s a different matter.)

There’s a thread discussing it. (Not sure how the quote box got reformatted.) The fact that it appeared in the Times right after the Wessexes mentioned that Edward expects to get the title in an interview makes me think that it’s true. It’s consistent with Charles’ long-standing goal of reducing the number of family members who are considered royal.

We heard essentially nothing about Archie’s christening, but it seems to have been a private event at Windsor. It’s possible that it was a really happy moment for them. Harry could be calling people and asking them to be Lili’s godparents, and just assuming that they can go back to Windsor in a month or two and do the same thing, without Megxit making any difference.