Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary

[viii]

18 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

The thing is that Meghan herself brought her “suicidal thoughts” into public discussion.  

Which is her right to do so as it's her experience. 

15 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Yes,  because Harry and Meghan are reading Free Jinger and taking things we go on about to heart. 

Harry and Meghan are 99.9% blissfully unaware about FJ and the opinions shared about them. However, there are likely other FJ members here who have had similar suicidal experiences as Meghan and hearing the dismissive way some people speak about it or twisting it into manipulating spouses and whatnot is a piss poor look. It's harmful. 

[tabitha2]

34 minutes ago, viii said:

Which is her right to do so as it's her experience. 

Harry and Meghan are 99.9% blissfully unaware about FJ and the opinions shared about them. However, there are likely other FJ members here who have had similar suicidal experiences as Meghan and hearing the dismissive way some people speak about it or twisting it into manipulating spouses and whatnot is a piss poor look. It's harmful. 

 Since when is FJ meant to be Mental health friendly?  It’s for speculation, snark , theory’s and for calling out bull shit if need be. Harry and Meghan are prime fodder for all that IMO. Also It could sure be harmful to me if I was not not so thick skinned  more for certain individuals to try to twist my words, read into things and call me a  Bitch and racist but I guess that’s ok. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by tabitha2

[viii]

You can speculate, snark, theorize, and call out BS for H&M without delving into mental health and twisting their words to fit a certain narrative that we have zero idea is true or not. 

And yes - I believe FJ should be mental health friendly. It's called being a decent human being to support people who are suicidal or struggling. 

PS - calling out your racism is part of the calling out BS part of FJ that you like so much. 

[tabitha2]

And so is calling out your bizarre  need to make everything about race and amazing ability read things in my posts that I never even wrote. 

[LilaMae]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:16 PM, Cat Damon said:

In the blurb from the magazine was this: "“In a world where everyone has an opinion about people they don’t know, the duke and duchess have compassion for the people they don’t know,” chef José Andrés wrote for the magazine. “They don’t just opine. They run towards the struggle.”"

But... what actually have they done? What are they running toward? I cannot think of one thing they've actually done aside from being papped at a food bank once and lecturing people from their mansion. They have such a large platform and could do so much good (and I know that with covid and everything with a new baby it's not like they're going to be out every day, it just wasn't safe) but they aren't doing anything at all besides releasing videos with other celebrities. It's pretty disappointing. 

You can see this even more if you look on the Archewell Foundation website (run by Harry and Meghan). The website is a mishmash of their paid enterprises (Audio and Productions, which are their Spotify and Netflix deals) plus their charitable endeavours. However, their charity work is smothered by general news of Harry and Meghan (who go by their titles on the website, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, something which seems a bit weird since they live in America), and any mentions of charity are things that are usually done "in partnership" with another company. Only it's hard to find any amounts that are given by the Foundation, and the writing on the website is often so flowery that you can read a whole paragraph and not find out anything about what Archewell's actual contribution was. In one programme that was actually led by H&M, Meghan's 40x40 birthday request (where Meghan asked 40 celebrities to donate 40 minutes of their time to mentor an unemployed woman), the announcement was made and a few women on social media signed up, but there was no information about what this mentoring would look like, what would realistically be done in only 40 minutes, and most importantly, how potential mentees could actually request a session. Since Meghan's birthday last month, no further updates of the 40x40 scheme has been mentioned on the website. 

Compare this to the Obama Foundation's website or the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation websites, and the difference is really evident. They have clear projects that they are leading, information about annual reports, and focus primarily on the people they are helping. 

Sorry for the TL;DR, but this charity really bugs me. They need to sort Archewell out and make it clear what the Foundation is actually doing in plain English. 

[tabitha2]

They want to live like and be thought of as Philanthropists in Bates, Oprah and Obama vein but don’t have near enough money But more importantly the  intelligence and lack of arrogance/Entitlement  to hire and actually listen to  professionals who will strongly direct them and teach them. 
 

Remember they had all the staff and PR and Advisors in the world at one time to really be something. 

[LilaMae]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

They want to live like and be thought of as Philanthropists in Bates, Oprah and Obama vein but don’t have near enough money But more importantly the  intelligence and lack of arrogance/Entitlement  to hire and actually listen to  professionals who will strongly direct them and teach them. 
 

Remember they had all the staff and PR and Advisors in the world at one time to really be something. 

Agreed. I noticed that while the Gates Foundation doesn't have a Donate button (presumably because they're so rich the Foundation pretty much runs of their income anyway), the Obamas do. Archewell doesn't have anything about how to donate to them, which seems an odd choice because Harry has been complaining that his Dad cut him off financially and they're struggling to pay for their own security . In any case, I had a look at Charity Navigator, and Archewell has revenue of less than $200k per year. Definitely not a major player in the philanthropic world. 

https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/852213963#finance-details-section

It honestly makes me think less of them. The only reason I can think that they made the Archewell Foundation, rather than just donating their money and time, is for the clout of being Philanthropy Big Shots. 

[tabitha2]

I think I get. Meghan has pie on the sky goals  of Being a glamorous adored Diana 2.0 or Oprah figure but without all the various strengths and  charisma of those women So she married a malleable damaged Prince but how is that working out? 

[just_ordinary]

17 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I think I get. Meghan has pie on the sky goals  of Being a glamorous adored Diana 2.0 or Oprah figure but without all the various strengths and  charisma of those women So she married a malleable damaged Prince but how is that working out? 

I think being a celebrity philanthropist was more second choice for them. Being the cool, woke, glamorous, exciting, world travelling, outspoken royals was very much their number one goal. H just didn’t read the writing on the wall early enough and didn’t brief her about the realities about the job/life, especially while his grandmother is still very much alive. 
But yes, Archwell is a real shit show. It’s really badly managed and I don’t get it for the love God. It would have been so easy to come up with a coherent strategy after Sussex Royal shut down. They had all the time in the world to create more then just a logo. It’s so frustrating because I think they had a real shot to establish themselves and built up a profile for good impact.

[Xanariel]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:19 AM, just_ordinary said:

But yes, Archwell is a real shit show. It’s really badly managed and I don’t get it for the love God. It would have been so easy to come up with a coherent strategy after Sussex Royal shut down. They had all the time in the world to create more then just a logo. It’s so frustrating because I think they had a real shot to establish themselves and built up a profile for good impact.

I kind of got the impression that Archwell was very much a plan B with a lot of scrambling when Sussex Royal got denied. 

I may be wrong in this, but I think Harry and Meghan were putting together plans for a 'half-in, half-out' lifestyle for at least a year in advance of their official departure. That's why they were in talks with firms like Netflix and Quibi while still working as royals. And they seemed to have decided that the best way of getting this agreed was to present it as a fait accompli to the RF with a statement of 'here's how things are going to be from now on' published to the world before anyone could look through it and say no to anything. 

The problem then may have been that they didn't realise how much backlash it was going to get or how much say the UK government had in their demands, particularly in their claims they were entitled to taxpayer-funded security and their ability to use the word 'royal' commercially.

Hence you got the weirdness of the statement being repeatedly altered after publishing with bits like the 'Internationally Protected Person section taken out (as if someone received a stern phone call), until you were left with that sulky "well, we've agreed not to use the word 'royal', but the Queen doesn't actually own it, so there!" 

I just think they may have initially envisioned a far different vehicle for their US pursuits, and that's why a lot of Archwell seems so disjointed. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Xanariel

[DalmatianCat]

17 minutes ago, Xanariel said:

I kind of got the impression that Archwell was very much a plan B with a lot of scrambling when Sussex Royal got denied. 

I may be wrong in this, but I think Harry and Meghan were putting together plans for a 'half-in, half-out' lifestyle for at least a year in advance of their official departure. That's why they were in talks with firms like Netflix and Quibi while still working as royals. And they seemed to have decided that the best way of getting this agreed was to present it as a fait accompli to the RF with a statement of 'here's how things are going to be from now on' published to the world before anyone could look through it and say no to anything. 

The problem then may have been that they didn't realise how much backlash it was going to get or how much say the UK government had in their demands, particularly in their claims they were entitled to taxpayer-funded security and their ability to use the word 'royal' commercially.

Hence you got the weirdness of the statement being repeatedly altered after publishing with bits like the 'Internationally Protected Person section taken out (as if someone received a stern phone call), until you were left with that sulky "well, we've agreed not to use the word 'royal', but the Queen doesn't actually own it, so there!" 

I just think they may have initially envisioned a far different vehicle for their US pursuits, and that's why a lot of Archwell seems so disjointed. 

Considering how careful the Queen has always been to remain neutral in many, many things, and how quickly Edward and Sophie got shut down at the appearance of conflicts of interest in their jobs, it makes me wonder how on earth Harry thought this would suddenly be ok??? I can see Meghan not understanding, but this is how Harry was raised. 

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, DalmatianCat said:

Considering how careful the Queen has always been to remain neutral in many, many things, and how quickly Edward and Sophie got shut down at the appearance of conflicts of interest in their jobs, it makes me wonder how on earth Harry thought this would suddenly be ok??? I can see Meghan not understanding, but this is how Harry was raised. 

My personal theory is that he believed HMTQ would follow Charles and William’s recommendation as they are the ones who are thought to modernise the institution. He probably believed in a version where they would indeed have a different role and more freedoms in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if what H thought was going to happen in a modernisation and what is actually in the cards was very different. It also seems as if Wiliam has decided to stay on the more traditional course, but as he is not in charge at this point he might play along till his time comes. My guess is either HMTQ said, hell no guys. Still very much alive and reigning and that’s how I want it OR H’s ideas were never a real option. Also the way they went about it always had a massive chance of backfiring. That alone probably made the BRF playing stronger. 

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

My personal theory is that he believed HMTQ would follow Charles and William’s recommendation as they are the ones who are thought to modernise the institution. He probably believed in a version where they would indeed have a different role and more freedoms in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if what H thought was going to happen in a modernisation and what is actually in the cards was very different. It also seems as if Wiliam has decided to stay on the more traditional course, but as he is not in charge at this point he might play along till his time comes. My guess is either HMTQ said, hell no guys. Still very much alive and reigning and that’s how I want it OR H’s ideas were never a real option. Also the way they went about it always had a massive chance of backfiring. That alone probably made the BRF playing stronger. 

My guess is that Harry didn’t think it through.  He diid not connect the “conflict of interest” issues his uncle ran into with whatever plans he and Meghan were considering.

It appears also that they were toying with many different plans and possible futures.  We know, for example, that they asked about moving to New Zealand.  There was also some talk about their becoming some sort of ambassadors to the Commonwealth, and they may have thought of Canada as a possible base.  Some of what they originally negotiated with Netflix and so forth was stuff that would fit with their charity work as royals. (I read somewhere that the Queen was under the impression that “The Me You Can’t See” was to be focused on the mental health issues of combat veterans.  Maybe it was, initially.)  In short, I don’t think they had made clear plans for anything when they made their announcement that they were “stepping down as full-time royals.”

What appears to have happened is that they got impatient.  They had told the Queen that they were unhappy and there had not been quick enough action on finding an alternative for them.  They were angry with the way they were being treated by the press and the palace’s failure to protect them.  They were resentful that even though they were making lots of sacrifices, they were still being expected to take second place to William and Kate.  All of this was combined with Meghan’s feelings of isolation in a strange country and the stress of having had a baby recently.  Harry wanted Meghan to be happy.

There is a story that Harry had tried several times to make an appointment to discuss things with the Queen and he was put off. He may have felt he was not being taken seriously and he may have decided that making his own announcement was the only way to “find freedom.”

What it all comes down to is that there were no clear plans because there had been no long-term discussion and consideration of different options.  There was clearly no real negotiation or discussion of H & M’s roles, finances, etc.

So when it came to dismantling Sussex Royal and starting Archwell, they really threw together a mishmash of different things.  What puzzles me is why they haven’t sorted it out by now.

At the very least, they should separate the “foundation” that supposedly does charitable things from their personal news website and from any advertising of for profit ventures.  Ideally, the charitable/non-profit should have a few specific projects that they emphasize and a properly organized fundraising set up.

Even so, they have succeeded in getting a lot of positive media attention in the US, so maybe they feel they are doing just fine.

[LilaMae]

Harry and Meghan are currently on a trip to New York, which is fair enough in itself, but they appear to be treating it as a quasi-Royal visit. They're been visiting the One World Trade Center Observatory with the Mayor and Governor of New York, had a meeting with a US Ambassador and went to a school to read Meghan's book to them. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10022903/Just-two-private-citizens-sightseeing-trip-New-York-Harry-Meghan.html

There's also some uncertainty about who is paying for their security, apparently some of the security staff said they worked for Homeland security. 

I'm not American so I don't know, but is it usual for celebrities to do this in America? It would be seen as very strange in the UK.

[anjulibai]

There's many celebrities who do stuff like this a lot. Angelina Jolie and George Clooney come to mind. 

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, LilaMae said:

Harry and Meghan are currently on a trip to New York, which is fair enough in itself, but they appear to be treating it as a quasi-Royal visit. They're been visiting the One World Trade Center Observatory with the Mayor and Governor of New York, had a meeting with a US Ambassador and went to a school to read Meghan's book to them. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10022903/Just-two-private-citizens-sightseeing-trip-New-York-Harry-Meghan.html

There's also some uncertainty about who is paying for their security, apparently some of the security staff said they worked for Homeland security. 

I'm not American so I don't know, but is it usual for celebrities to do this in America? It would be seen as very strange in the UK.

I would think that if Homeland Is covering their security, it is only for the specific public events.  They are unlikely to be providing individual security. 

Celebrities sometimes get this kind of treatment in the US. But the thing is that Meghan and Harry are “celebrities” only because they are royal.

The whole thing confirms my impression that Harry and Meghan are setting themselves up as “alternate royalty” on their own terms.  It is going to hurt the way the British Royals are seen, but it is clear that Harry has no impulse to protect his brother’s career.

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I would think that if Homeland Is covering their security, it is only for the specific public events.  They are unlikely to be providing individual security. 

Celebrities sometimes get this kind of treatment in the US. But the thing is that Meghan and Harry are “celebrities” only because they are royal.

The whole thing confirms my impression that Harry and Meghan are setting themselves up as “alternate royalty” on their own terms.  It is going to hurt the way the British Royals are seen, but it is clear that Harry has no impulse to protect his brother’s career.

Yes, they are playing royal tour here. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people aren't under the impression that they are representing the Crown. 

Celebrities sometimes attend UN events in regard to specific issues. But they don't prance all over NYC doing public events for three days straight. 

[DalmatianCat]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I would think that if Homeland Is covering their security, it is only for the specific public events.  They are unlikely to be providing individual security. 

Celebrities sometimes get this kind of treatment in the US. But the thing is that Meghan and Harry are “celebrities” only because they are royal.

The whole thing confirms my impression that Harry and Meghan are setting themselves up as “alternate royalty” on their own terms.  It is going to hurt the way the British Royals are seen, but it is clear that Harry has no impulse to protect his brother’s career.

It makes me curious as to who invited them to be representatives of…what exactly? I read bits of their speeches about vaccine equity and it made me think they’re just jumping on the same bandwagon every other celebrity is on. The majority of people are in favor of vaccine equity. I’ve seen many celebrities bring it up…it’s not like this is an original position they’re taking. And if the goal is to put pressure on big pharma, why does anyone think Meghan and Harry have the clout to do that? They represent neither the British Royal family or American taxpayers. I don’t think any American politicians are looking to them for guidance (or are feeling shamed by them). I just don’t get it. They seem to choose “safe” causes that already have a lot spokespeople. It would make more sense if they chose an underserved cause to champion.

Edited September 26, 2021 by DalmatianCat
Typo

[just_ordinary]

@DalmatianCat I agree. Most of those vaccine gifting was already planned and even public information. It just got a bug push in attention. Which is not exactly bad. But it’s also not as if H&M were the reason those doses are going out. 

@EmCatlyn I disagree. If they want to play royals of America is does not really harm the BRF. Whatever the US thinks about the BRF is highly irrelevant, and professional politicians don’t act on stuff like that anyway (that’s why they are able to make all sorts of deals with shady regimes while paying lip service and carefully scold them publicly). The people in the UK that are truly interested in the monarchy (and that’s not the majority, most are mostly uninterested) are mostly anti-H&M. The BRF is completely ignoring H&M for everything Business Royal. Them playing court looks rather pathetic from that perspective. I would say, Joke’s on the US if they treat them as such on their own dime. I see no real harm here though. Their antics neither have influence of the UK Parliament and Government (they have really better things to do) nor on the actions of the BRF (at least I see no panic activism to respond to them). As long as they don’t sit down with Oprah again and give an interview about how Charles or Wiliam are really mean racists with lots of examples they really cannot do any harm. They played high and have lost spectacularly.
Now it at least seems as if they try to build more from themselves instead of referring to their royal status or H upbringing or Diana. That’s good and I hope they can stay on that course. Having lots of public appearances on a trip might look like a royal tour and, as I said, if the US treats it with the same care and money that’s on the US. But in the end- it’s just not. And I know some people have a problem with words actually having a real defined meaning and not something else because they that’s how they feel (*cough marriage for example…*cough) and maybe H&M feel like they are doing a royal tour 2.0, but they are not.

Edited September 26, 2021 by just_ordinary

[anjulibai]

I just don't understand how Harry and Meghan doing these types of events has any effect on William and his career. They aren't preventing William from doing anything. They aren't forcing the press to not cover William. 

What Harry and Meghan are doing isn't any different than a lot of celebrities, whether they be from Hollywood or royalty, have been doing for years. 

Hand wringing about them drawing attention just seems so petty and immature. Roll your eyes at what they are doing, fine, but at this point it shouldn't have any bearing on what William or any other royal is doing. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

….… [snipped…..
 If they want to play royals of America is does not really harm the BRF. Whatever the US thinks about the BRF is highly irrelevant, and professional politicians don’t act on stuff like that anyway (that’s why they are able to make all sorts of deals with shady regimes while paying lip service and carefully scold them publicly). The people in the UK that are truly interested in the monarchy (and that’s not the majority, most are mostly uninterested) are mostly anti-H&M. The BRF is completely ignoring H&M for everything Business Royal. Them playing court looks rather pathetic from that perspective. I would say, Joke’s on the US if they treat them as such on their own dime. I see no real harm here though. Their antics neither have influence of the UK Parliament and Government (they have really better things to do) nor on the actions of the BRF (at least I see no panic activism to respond to them). As long as they don’t sit down with Oprah again and give an interview about how Charles or Wiliam are really mean racists with lots of examples they really cannot do any harm. They played high and have lost spectacularly.  … [snipped]

Where I think Harry and Meghan could do harm in that they are creating the impression that they represent an alternative.  Their narrative frames the BRF as a repressive, fundamentally dishonest and racist institution from which they had to “escape.”  Though the British public may disapprove of them now, their narrative has appeal to young people and especially young people of color across the Commonwealth.

My impression is that the kind of attention they are trying to get on the American/world stage is going to be set against whatever the BRF does or says.  It may not matter so much to the folks in the UK right now, but down the road the antics of Harry and Meghan may cheapen the perception of the Royal Family (on top of other problems such as Andrew’s scandal) and/or they may come to be seen as more “genuine” than William and Kate.  Right now, I agree, H&M are unpopular while W&K are very popular in the UK.  I am just thinking of the long term.

I guess what struck me about the “imitation royal tour” was that it highlights the “competitiveness” of the Sussexes towards the Cambridges.  Some other things they have done have suggested they see themselves (or want to frame themselves) as functioning as the same kind of public figure as “official” royals.

Maybe they will settle down in their own little “public service” world, but I could also see them getting more aggressively competitive.

36 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

…..

Hand wringing about them drawing attention just seems so petty and immature. Roll your eyes at what they are doing, fine, but at this point it shouldn't have any bearing on what William or any other royal is doing. 

Not “hand wringing” about their drawing attention.  I just expressed concern that Harry and Meghan might hurt his brother’s position in the long run.

I don’t really care, frankly, except as I would care about any family drama.  I am in the US and I have never been a big royal watcher.

It is always sad when siblings try to undermine each other, but it happens.

[anjulibai]

I guess I just don't see how it's undermining William, unless you compare what Harry does to what William does, and William comes up wanting. 

And if he does come up wanting, then he needs to up his game, because I don't, personally think Harry is doing so much different than any other celebrity who has a focus on philanthropy. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by anjulibai

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, anjulibai said:

I guess I just don't see how it's undermining William, unless you compare what Harry does to what William does, and William comes up wanting. 

And if he does come up wanting, then he needs to up his game, because I don't, personally think Harry is doing so much different than any other celebrity who has a focus on philanthropy. 

I'm not sure he has a focus on philanthropy. Their focus seems to be being seen. They don't focus on anything; they don't seem to be raising money. There are no means to donate on their site. The major donations they have announced have not been from Archewell but from outside organizations--like P&G donating "in partnership". Husband worked for P&G--I guarantee they're not giving via Archewell; they're giving via their own foundation. Their appearance yesterday was carefully choreographed including a written script on a large teleprompter and I'd bet money they were paid-- their own pockets not their charity. Someone had to pay for that hotel and all those expensive clothes. 

[Coconut Flan]

I'm back to three types of people in the world and these two are now sitting firmly in class 3:  those who never learn.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10030443/Eco-warriors-Meghan-Harry-return-California-private-jet-VIP-woke-tour-NYC.html

You have no woke leg to stand on when you breeze in or out on a private jet acting like a celebrity and simply spouting "fine talk" before retreating to the gated community mansion.  

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I guess I just don't see how it's undermining William, unless you compare what Harry does to what William does, and William comes up wanting. 

And if he does come up wanting, then he needs to up his game, because I don't, personally think Harry is doing so much different than any other celebrity who has a focus on philanthropy. 

I am talking about in the long run.  If one brother is more “glamorous” and gives the message that his family is racist, the odds are it will hurt the other brother.