Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary

[Grandma D]

10 hours ago, viii said:

 

Cool, nobody cares what a random lady on a boat thinks. 

Oh, I didn't know you were the spokesperson for FJ. How did you come by this position?

 

[just_ordinary]

3 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

But who is deciding this? Because historically, BIPOC have said something is racist only to have white people say, nope. Everyone is treated this way. It’s in your head. You misconstrued it. 
There is an intersection of racism with everything you listed there. It’s entirely possible to be racist *and* sexist at the same time, in a way only black women experience. The only people who get to decide if something is racist are the people it’s directed towards. So if Meghan says it’s racist, I believe her. Period. Why even bother debating this?

I think it’s a very fine line. I do not completely disagree. In fact I lean more into agreement than not but I just cannot support that a 100%. The offender doesn’t get to decide if they offended. But that’s not a fit all solution. Because that means every claim someone makes must be taken for the truth without second guessing. And especially if you only tie it to the word of one person. There have been many BIPOC that spoke out against M and some of her claims. Are they racist? Is it safe to say they are just brainwashed? Why is their opinion irrelevant. Because if only M’s opinion is relevant every else speaking out for her doesn’t count too. I am on the fence about this because I see the need to believe a traditionally gaslighted group (as I am part of such a group as well), but I also find it hard to give anyone a blank cheque when I don’t see the evidence even if I try. I might be completely in the wrong, but as of now I don’t support the claim every criticism was based in racism and that she got way worse treatment because of racism in every coverage, and that the British tabloids was completely racist in all their coverage.

If only M gets to decide what’s ok to be said about her - fine. No criticism from there on. Which makes this whole board kind of very very wrong. Because a lot of what is said here could be thrown out like this by the people we talk about.

But in all honesty, the fact that ALL criticism of her is deemed racist makes the whole thing pretty strange. She said on camera she would be the first to apologise if she truly had  done things less than stellar, but it seems there just wasn’t anything as she didn’t apologise or change. So her picture of herself is that she never put a foot wrong- that was such a movie drama line, and stupid. Because for example she did spend obscene amounts of money and could have easily spend less and per her own words acknowledge that it might have been too much. Why I would put myself in such a position is beyond me. Kate spends crazy tons of money, gets tons of backlash but never opens herself up to a position where she acts as if she of course would change is that was really the case. And that’s one case where M got away better than K, by the way. Latter has years of spending criticism on her back. Emptying PC’s purse, emptying the tax payers purse (reno, security, transportation) buying the exact same piece in all colours, showing up in hyper expensive stuff to engagements around poverty, throwing money out like crazy, her first year wardrobe cost did not go down well either, looking basically shit in everything and spending so much money on it, and the three complete sets of maternity wardrobes….. M got away pretty easy on that part in my opinion and with leaving, spared herself years of it. (By the way, I totally think the amount of money they spend on stuff that never sees the light of day -apart from big state evening reception or probably iconic gowns (engagement/wedding)- is obscene and they deserve to get called out).

As of today, I do think M was treated with appalling racism. Not so much in the official coverage but very much on private outlets and in comment sections. And I do not doubt she was faced with some racist bias in the family and his friends circle. I wish they would have sued those online people or that someone could have doxxed them. That was really bad stuff and it’s still going in some places. They most definitely were in the right calling out the official press outlets allowing this going on in their comment sections. And to make that clear, I still like M (not so much a fan of H but also I also don’t really dislike him). I think she is a very gorgeous and driven person that has great presence. She most definitely can achieve a lot if she sets her mind to it. What I find most annoying is that I find their approach extremely lacking and sometimes borderline stupid. I might find out I am wrong and all their actions actually pay off, but from today’s point of view it’s a hot mess and they seem unable to implement a coherent, serious, professional and graceful* approach. 
*for the lack of a better word

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

But who is deciding this? Because historically, BIPOC have said something is racist only to have white people say, nope. Everyone is treated this way. It’s in your head. You misconstrued it. 
There is an intersection of racism with everything you listed there. It’s entirely possible to be racist *and* sexist at the same time, in a way only black women experience. The only people who get to decide if something is racist are the people it’s directed towards. So if Meghan says it’s racist, I believe her. Period. Why even bother debating this?

Indeed, why bother “debating” anything when your mind is made up?

I don’t believe or disbelieve people’s claims based on their race, sex, religion, or nationality. I try to understand the situation and come to an objective conclusion about their claims.

I believe Meghan when she says she experienced racism because I know racism is everywhere and there is plenty of evidence that it is an issue in the UK.  I don’t believe every problem she had was due to racism because there were other factors involved.

Meghan’s suggestion that the reason Archie was not made a prince was because there was concern about the color of his skin overlooks that there was never any expectation that Harry’s children, regardless of whom he married, would be given the title of prince/princess before Charles was crowned.  Even if she perceives the decision as being based on racism, there is evidence that she is mistaken.

I have been in situations where what I perceived as sexism, or prejudice against Hispanics or foreigners turned out to be something else. I assume that other people can be mistaken also. 

[Xanariel]

Bit of an essay, but I think that Kate and Meghan's situation is apples and oranges. 

I think it's really difficult unpicking what was aimed at Meghan because of her race and what was because she was American, an actress, divorced, etc. I don't think the distinction matters too much, because if you're getting a headline like "straight outta Compton" or your son compared to a chimp and then a hundred articles criticising things about different things, it's going to be hard not to feel like the underlying reason is your race, and that'll take a huge toll on you. 

At the same time, though, I'm always a little perplexed by the Sussexes' description of Meghan's media treatment, because they - or at least Harry - seem desperately keen to emphasise that Meghan's in physical danger and she could literally end up dead just like his mother? 

Because I don't think that 'Waity Katie' is the same as racist abuse. But Kate actually had a far more similar experience to Diana than Meghan ever did, because this was pre-Leveson when it was acceptable for the press to do anything to get fresh stories,  even if their targets were in physical danger. 

So, for those who may not have been familiar with those tactics - that meant hacking phones and stealing voice messages (infamously, this was done to a murdered girl, whose parents wee given false hope she was still alive because journalists were deleting her messages to clear out space so that new anguished calls could be left). So William and Kate not only had their private voicemails to each other stolen and printed, but were left suspecting close friends and family of selling info on them because how else would the tabloids know? 

It meant hordes of photographers following stars through the street, often shouting abuse because them getting angry or sobbing made better pictures. I'm not sure if it's still on there, but there used to be footage on YouTube of Kate being followed home from a nightclub in the dark as she asks them to leave her alone, and it's difficult not to think of the fear of a lone woman in her early twenties surrounded by a load of men at night who are getting into her personal space and won't leave. Or the sight of the car being followed by paparazzi on motorbikes and the obvious Diana parallels. 

Kate was the one who, aside from the obvious fact of being future queen like Diana, had the likeliest chance of being actually suffering physical harm as a result, but the Sussexes portrayed this experience as being just called Waity Katie, and then tried to act like Meghan might end up deliberately killed...which seems bizarre when surely her feeling suicidal is bad enough? 

And even when she married, there was this really odd sense of public ownership over Kate that I don't think existed so much for Meghan - which doesn't mean Kate had it worse but it was definitely different? Like, a magazine discussing British decline photoshopping a Kate with rotten teeth to symbolise a decaying country, the Hillary Mantel firestorm, DJs feeling it was appropriate to broadcast her private medical information and then Morrisey publicly blaming Kate for the nurse committing suicide, the topless photos and subsequent victim-blaming when Kate still had to go out and carry on with a royal tour...it was actually quite bizarre, and I think it's evident that a lot of that no longer flew by 2018.

So Meghan didn't face the same physical harassment or intrusion by paparazzi, and yet that doesn't change that she suffered racist abuse that Kate didn't. 

And then it gets tied into plain untruths, like the security issue or her getting her passport confiscated, which just complicates things further. 

I also think that this difference in experience may factor into why they never became close. Kate is obviously very guarded (she's been in the public eye for nearly 20 years but we know very little about her as a person) whereas Meghan comes from a profession where publicity is a vital part of achieving your goals. I don't think she'd have understood for instance how badly her little blind item would go down or why Kate would not immediately rush to befriend her.

I also think it's a bit tasteless for Harry to say that his mother wound up dead for dating a non-white man - whose name he doesn't even bother to speak - when Meghan's happy to accept diamonds from the man who had Dodi's cousin dismembered, but that may just be me. 

[Manda]

21 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

The only people who get to decide if something is racist are the people it’s directed towards. So if Meghan says it’s racist, I believe her. Period. Why even bother debating this?

No they don't.  When Meghan lies or misstates facts and then tries to claim it's racist, she doesn't get that ground nor does anyone else.  It makes things harder for all of us who are minorities, bi-racial, or mixed race when lies are used to claim racist treatment when it isn't.  It makes true claims harder to make and prove.  I've worked with settling claims and the validity and truth of claims have to be examined no matter what the claimant says is true.  Actual facts have to be determined.  I'm not saying Meghan didn't face racism.  Several of the articles quoted recently are horrible.  I'm sure some of BRF were horrible.  That doesn't mean every claim Meghan makes of racism is fact though just because she uttered it.  It also doesn't mean that Meghan's behavior can't be examined by a forum such as this based on the behavior she displayed.  Being bi-racial doesn't put her or anyone above scrutiny for what they say and do just as it isn't a license to attack her for her birth.  

[adidas]

I think they have both been treated terribly by the media, but I agree with @Xanariel that it’s apples and oranges.

The articles against Kate were classist. The articles against Meghan were racist. Both were awful. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:18 PM, Manda said:

I'll posit that it wasn't just that Meghan was American, but that she was Hollywood related.

Also, is there an equivalent photo of Kate deliberately posing for a photo double handed cradling the bump?  For me that's a major difference in the bump touching. We criticize the fundies all the time for a hand going too far under the bump.  Everyone else is fair game, too. 

I've been up the duff 5 times, delivered trey sprogs and have held my belly like that, with both hands,  on many occasions. What's your point??

Women should be allowed to hold/not hold their personal spaces how they like. Your judging one woman on how you think all women need to perform their feminity.

 

We as snarkers should be better. Every woman should be allowed to display her body, pregnant or not as she wants. 

[EmCatlyn]

 

2 hours ago, Xanariel said:

I also think it's a bit tasteless for Harry to say that his mother wound up dead for dating a non-white man - whose name he doesn't even bother to speak - when Meghan's happy to accept diamonds from the man who had Dodi's cousin dismembered, but that may just be me. 

Say what?  I had not read (or had forgotten) that Harry made this ridiculous claim.  Diana “wound up dead” because she was being chased by paparazzi, who would have chased her regardless of whom she was dating.  Personally, I would argue that she “wound up dead” because her driver was drunk and she didn’t fasten her seatbelt. (The internal injuries that killed her would have been unlikely if she had been restrained.) 

Harry’s claim is not only “tasteless” but it is putting a racial spin on Diana’s death that just wasn’t there.  I don’t doubt that part of the criticism Diana got for dating Dodi was that he was “not white,” but the paparazzi were not chasing her for that reason.

Harry may well fear that he will lose Meghan the way he lost his mother because the trauma he experienced when Diana died had such a great impact on him. However, I think the tendency that he and Meghan both have of alluding to his mother’s experiences and trying to reframe them to refer to themselves is a form of commodification of Diana.  It is very sad.

2 hours ago, adidas said:

I think they have both been treated terribly by the media, but I agree with @Xanariel that it’s apples and oranges.

The articles against Kate were classist. The articles against Meghan were racist. Both were awful. 

I agree they have both been treated badly by the media, and  I just want to add that a lot of what is “racist” is often also “classist.”

In some ways the comparisons between Kate’s and Meghan’s treatment are part of the problem.  Being compared to each other is actually one of the things that both these very different women share.

[Coconut Flan]

10 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

I've been up the duff 5 times, delivered trey sprogs and have held my belly like that, with both hands,  on many occasions. What's your point??

Women should be allowed to hold/not hold their personal spaces how they like. Your judging one woman on how you think all women need to perform their feminity.

 

We as snarkers should be better. Every woman should be allowed to display her body, pregnant or not as she wants. 

Do you make this point every time people snark on the fundies' crotch grabbing bump holding photos?  Plus I am allowed to think it presents a very unappealing photo.  

[Xanariel]

11 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

Say what?  I had not read (or had forgotten) that Harry made this ridiculous claim.  Diana “wound up dead” because she was being chased by paparazzi, who would have chased her regardless of whom she was dating.  Personally, I would argue that she “wound up dead” because her driver was drunk and she didn’t fasten her seatbelt. (The internal injuries that killed her would have been unlikely if she had been restrained.) 

Harry’s claim is not only “tasteless” but it is putting a racial spin on Diana’s death that just wasn’t there.  I don’t doubt that part of the criticism Diana got for dating Dodi was that he was “not white,” but the paparazzi were not chasing her for that reason.

Harry may well fear that he will lose Meghan the way he lost his mother because the trauma he experienced when Diana died had such a great impact on him. However, I think the tendency that he and Meghan both have of alluding to his mother’s experiences and trying to reframe them to refer to themselves is a form of commodification of Diana.  It is very sad.

I agree they have both been treated badly by the media, and  I just want to add that a lot of what is “racist” is often also “classist.”

In some ways the comparisons between Kate’s and Meghan’s treatment are part of the problem.  Being compared to each other is actually one of the things that both these very different women share.

Harry said that Diana was "chased to her death while in a relationship with someone who was not white, and now look what's happened...You want to talk about history repeating itself. They're not going to stop until [Meghan] dies". 

Not only does it oddly fail to point out that the "someone who was not white" died as well, without bothering to even name him, it again oddly focuses on this idea that Meghan is actually going to end up dead at someone else's hands. It just seems...really morbid, paranoid and just not a good headspace to be in at all, for either of them? 

And yeah, the really sad thing about Diana's death was that there were so many factors where she might not have died if even one was changed - if the paps didn't chase her, if her driver wasn't drunk, if she had worn a seatbelt. 

I also don't think Harry (understandably) wants to consider Diana's complicated relationship with the press. Namely that she herself leaked stories and tipped off the paparazzi at times, including during her summer with Dodi. Some of her contemporaries believed this was her attempt at making her ex, the also non-white Hasnat Khan jealous after he broke up with her (partially because he couldn't stand the media attention).

Unfortunately, it helped fuel the media frenzy and meant the paps were always hunting for more juice, and we all know where that led. 

[just_ordinary]

@Xanariel I think it’s pretty evident by now that H never came even close to come to terms with the past. Interestingly enough some people in the royal watching community discussed this very openly around 2017. It was also predicted that H would have a very different approach, a more secretive/private one- for several reasons, the press intrusion and his late mother being one of it. This was one year after him campaigning for Heads Together, talking about how therapy helped him and in the hey day of his popularity. 
 

Spoiler

I really hope he finds a therapist that helps him go forwards (from what I see he doesn’t but obviously that’s just from afar). Carrying this baggage and getting told by your spouse you are the only reason they won’t kill themselve, feeling neglected, loosing the backing of your family and basically a massive part of your personality and way of life (doesn’t matter if by your own fault, or not or both) must have sent him in a downward spiral. It would have everyone. If it is a healthy approach to spread yourself thin with various projects and jobs, a relatively new marriage and two children (if you think about it, they had almost a Fundie timeline with not much actually time together before engagement) and all this while constantly opening yourself and your spouse up for criticism and ridicule is a question he should seriously think about. Maybe stepping back for the time being and getting ok, concentrating on his personal life would be a healthier approach? Fighting haters is all well and good but not if it costs you your mental health. They can always take a break and ease back in at a later point. 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Xanariel said:

Harry said that Diana was "chased to her death while in a relationship with someone who was not white, and now look what's happened...You want to talk about history repeating itself. They're not going to stop until [Meghan] dies". 

Not only does it oddly fail to point out that the "someone who was not white" died as well, without bothering to even name him, it again oddly focuses on this idea that Meghan is actually going to end up dead at someone else's hands. It just seems...really morbid, paranoid and just not a good headspace to be in at all, for either of them? 

 

Oh yeah, I had forgotten the “not white” part because the other part (“They are not going to stop until she dies,”) was so paranoid. There is clearly something wrong with how Harry has processed Diana’s death, and I have an uncomfortable feeling that Meghan may be capitalizing on his fears that “history will repeat itself.”   It’s very unhealthy.

[tabitha2]

The plain fact Is Some people don’t want to be “OK” or heal because they won’t get the attention, sympathy or get excused for acting out. Harry gets the world to notice and talk he lays on  the permanently? Damaged escaped from a oppressive loveless family  Royal  Prince  who wants to save the world routine. 

[EmCatlyn]

 

33 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

@Xanariel I think it’s pretty evident by now that H never came even close to come to terms with the past. Interestingly enough some people in the royal watching community discussed this very openly around 2017.   … [snipped]

I really hope he finds a therapist that helps him go forwards (from what I see he doesn’t but obviously that’s just from afar). Carrying this baggage and getting told by your spouse you are the only reason they won’t kill themselve, feeling neglected, loosing the backing of your family and basically a massive part of your personality and way of life (doesn’t matter if by your own fault, or not or both) must have sent him in a downward spiral. It would have everyone. If it is a healthy approach to spread yourself thin with various projects and jobs, a relatively new marriage and two children (if you think about it, they had almost a Fundie timeline with not much actually time together before engagement) and all this while constantly opening yourself and your spouse up for criticism and ridicule is a question he should seriously think about. Maybe stepping back for the time being and getting ok, concentrating on his personal life would be a healthier approach? Fighting haters is all well and good but not if it costs you your mental health. They can always take a break and ease back in at a later point. 

Yes, Harry clearly needs therapy, and I don’t think he is getting the right kind. I don’t see him in a “downward spiral” yet, but I think it is coming.  I kind of wonder if all the self-exposure lately is not partly a way of trying to stave off feelings of emptiness and regret over what he has lost of his past life.

It’s funny also that we keep hearing of Harry’s new insights into his past (very limited insights, if you ask me) and how therapy has helped him, and how his family was dysfunctional, but we don’t get similar revelations about Meghan.

Yet Meghan clearly has as much family baggage (if of a different type) as Harry does, and being too much in the public eye, and losing your mom at age 13 are not the only way you can be damaged by your upbringing.  

[adidas]

16 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I agree they have both been treated badly by the media, and  I just want to add that a lot of what is “racist” is often also “classist.”

Yes! So true. Your whole post was spot on, but I wanted to highlight this part.

[TN-peach]

18 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

 

Yes, Harry clearly needs therapy, and I don’t think he is getting the right kind. I don’t see him in a “downward spiral” yet, but I think it is coming.  I kind of wonder if all the self-exposure lately is not partly a way of trying to stave off feelings of emptiness and regret over what he has lost of his past life.

It’s funny also that we keep hearing of Harry’s new insights into his past (very limited insights, if you ask me) and how therapy has helped him, and how his family was dysfunctional, but we don’t get similar revelations about Meghan.

Yet Meghan clearly has as much family baggage (if of a different type) as Harry does, and being too much in the public eye, and losing your mom at age 13 are not the only way you can be damaged by your upbringing.  

I believe that Meghan takes advantage of this.  She puts the pressure on him to help her from committing suicide (her statements about how she thought about suicide when she was pregnant) and he is her savior.  The press is chasing her like they did his mother.  It seems to me very emotionally manipulative.  It should not be his job to save her - isn't she the enlightened one?! the one with all of the therapy experience?! Yet she puts the burden of her emotional health on Harry.  "Harry, you have to save me.  Like you didn't save your mom."

[viii]

1 hour ago, TN-peach said:

I believe that Meghan takes advantage of this.  She puts the pressure on him to help her from committing suicide (her statements about how she thought about suicide when she was pregnant) and he is her savior.  The press is chasing her like they did his mother.  It seems to me very emotionally manipulative.  It should not be his job to save her - isn't she the enlightened one?! the one with all of the therapy experience?! Yet she puts the burden of her emotional health on Harry.  "Harry, you have to save me.  Like you didn't save your mom."

I'm trying to stay out of this thread for my own wellbeing but this is ridiculous speculation. We have zero proof that Meghan is pressuring Harry and manipulating his mental and emotional health. To bring her suicidal thoughts into this discussion is scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's low and tasteless and I believe that FJ is SO much better than that. 

[tabitha2]

Given How many people here take long rides on the ridiculous speculation bus for Fundies with a lot less to go on … Jana and Tim Tebow? Really?  I don’t see why MM should is exempt from that 

[viii]

5 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Given How many people here take long rides on the ridiculous speculation bus for Fundies with a lot less to go on … Jana and Tim Tebow? Really?  I don’t see why MM should is exempt from that 

There is a huge difference between speculating that Jana and Tim Tebow are dating and that Meghan Markle was using her suicidal thoughts against Harry as a way to manipulate him. If you can't tell the difference between the two... One is a harmless (albeit dumb) speculation, the other is actually dangerous and harmful and doesn't set a good look for FJ. 

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I'm trying to stay out of this thread for my own wellbeing but this is ridiculous speculation. We have zero proof that Meghan is pressuring Harry and manipulating his mental and emotional health. To bring her suicidal thoughts into this discussion is scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's low and tasteless and I believe that FJ is SO much better than that. 

I agree that we have absolutely no grounds to assume that she deliberately uses her mental health to put him under pressure. We do know, however that she told him she is not going through with it so he wouldn’t have to loose her too. Her or his own words (cannot remember who said it). That’s heavy baggage regardless if the receiving end is already in a bad mental state or absolutely fine. It’s almost as if he has to be thankful to her that she graciously considers his feelings. Being the sole reason someone is not committing suicide would take a toll on anyone. I mean, what if you are planning to leave that relationship? I am not saying this was an elaborate ploy on her side, but I sure hope they addressed this with a therapist or counsellor and H can go to sleep knowing his wife and mother of his children is not depending on him with her life. I mean, it seems that he believes they are depending on him money (all his whining about not getting money from Daddy, having to touch his own inherited millions, having to get a real job…).

Edited September 20, 2021 by just_ordinary

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, TN-peach said:

I believe that Meghan takes advantage of this.  She puts the pressure on him to help her from committing suicide (her statements about how she thought about suicide when she was pregnant) and he is her savior.  The press is chasing her like they did his mother.  It seems to me very emotionally manipulative.  It should not be his job to save her - isn't she the enlightened one?! the one with all of the therapy experience?! Yet she puts the burden of her emotional health on Harry.  "Harry, you have to save me.  Like you didn't save your mom."

We can’t be sure that Meghan was aware, when she told Harry that she was having suicidal thoughts, that this would trigger Harry’s fears of losing her.  Turning to your spouse if you are feeling suicidal is not intrinsically manipulative.  Just as he shouldn’t have to “save” her, she should not have to conceal her own pain to “protect” him.

However, a lot of what Meghan does appears to be manipulative, and I don’t doubt that, consciously or unconsciously, she takes advantage of Harry’s insecurities about losing the most important woman in his life.  People can be manipulative even towards people they love.

We can only speculate about what goes on between them, but my point is that I think both of them — not just Harry — seem to need therapy.

[viii]

29 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

We can only speculate about what goes on between them, but my point is that I think both of them — not just Harry — seem to need therapy.

This I will agree with. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, viii said:

I'm trying to stay out of this thread for my own wellbeing but this is ridiculous speculation. We have zero proof that Meghan is pressuring Harry and manipulating his mental and emotional health. To bring her suicidal thoughts into this discussion is scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's low and tasteless and I believe that FJ is SO much better than that. 

The thing is that Meghan herself brought her “suicidal thoughts” into public discussion.  She made a big deal of them as one of the reasons they had to leave royal life. Further, Harry himself has made the connection between those suicidal thoughts and his fear of losing her.  Any speculations based on these public statements are hardly “scraping the bottom of the barrel.”

I do agree that we don’t have proof that “Meghan is pressuring Harry and manipulating his mental and emotional health.”  However, it is not a “ridiculous speculation” to consider that Meghan might (consciously or unconsciously) use Harry’s fears of losing her to get him to do things she considers are “good for both of them.”  She may not realize that she is being manipulative (a lot of people don’t) and she may just be trying to meet her own needs.

It is not inappropriate, I think, to speculate on the way the people we discuss may be interacting and possibly manipulating each other so long as we ground our speculations in what they have actually done or said.  I repeat that Meghan needs therapy as much as Harry does, and I wish their message were less about why they have all the answers and more about how they need to work on finding the answers—just like all of us do.

[tabitha2]

1 hour ago, viii said:

There is a huge difference between speculating that Jana and Tim Tebow are dating and that Meghan Markle was using her suicidal thoughts against Harry as a way to manipulate him. If you can't tell the difference between the two... One is a harmless (albeit dumb) speculation, the other is actually dangerous and harmful and doesn't set a good look for FJ. 

Yes,  because Harry and Meghan are reading Free Jinger and taking things we go on about to heart. But ,Hell, it might do them good if they did.Anyway I’ve seen more than few things in my time here that really make FJ look bad and this is not near the top. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

….Being the sole reason someone is not committing suicide would take a toll on anyone. I mean, what if you are planning to leave that relationship? I am not saying this was an elaborate ploy on her side, but I sure hope they addressed this with a therapist or counsellor and H can go to sleep knowing his wife and mother of his children is not depending on him with her life. I mean, it seems that he believes they are depending on him money (all his whining about not getting money from Daddy, having to touch his own inherited millions, having to get a real job…).

I don’t think that Harry would worry now that he is “the sole reason” that Meghan doesn’t commit suicide because they presumably currently have a happier life as well as two kids who should be even stronger reasons not to commit suicide.  However, I agree that this is something they should work out because his fear of losing her seems disproportionate and could become a source of later problems.

About Meghan’s suicide ideation, it is worth noting that by her account it happened during her first pregnancy.  Pregnancy can stir up weird emotions even when you are not already feeling pressured and homesick.  Definitely her feelings should not be devalued, but it is not unreasonable to assume that the worst depression passed, especially since, after Archie was born, she was actively engaged in projects she could hope would improve her life.