Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary

[tabitha2]

Real talk do you really think any of Harry’s  family  really want Meghan there esp for a long visit anyway?  Hell other than maybe Charles and the Queen a lot of them probably aren’t that crazy about Harry either. Can’t say I blame honestly. 
 

Also consider Andrew will be part of any family gatherings and the implications of them socializing that won’t look good for Sussex press. 
 

Maybe it’s best for all concerned they stay home for the foreseeable future 

[viii]

I imagine there are several people in the royal family that other royal families don't want to see, but much like *regular* families, you suck it up at holiday times and see them. 

However, if they're going to continue being horrible to Meghan, then yes, you're right - Harry and Meghan should stay home for their own mental health. 

I do think eventually this rift will be repaired though, hopefully sooner rather than later. I imagine that Charles would like to see his grandchildren, even if he's not fond of their mother. Plenty of families have dynamics similar to this and they make it work. The royal family is not unique in this regard. 

[tabitha2]

Why should they have to “suck it up” for people who went on interviews and flat out lied, told many many half truths,  told talk show hosts of private phone calls, pretty much called them racists before the entire world and dared to speak for other people when they had no right. 
 

Whether it was Harry or Meghan or both does not matter. No family should be obliged to put with that. 
 

And What about The Queens and Charles mental health for what the Sussex’s  said and did? Exactly. That’s just not important is it? 
 

 

[viii]

Because despite the odd lie or half-truth, it's fact that there are some terrible things that were said and done to them. Neither side is innocent in this - both the royal family and the Sussexes have made major mistakes. 

The Queen's mental health matters, but given all her support for Andrew who is a proven shit stain on society, I find it hard to feel sorry for her. 

I feel bad for Charles but he has made so many missteps in his life. He treated Diana horribly and showed William and Harry basically everything not to do in a marriage. Harry is now overly paranoid that his wife is going to turn out like his mother - Charles is reaping what he has sown. Charles seems like a nice old man now but there's still consequences for past behavior and I think that's some of what we are seeing here. Charles let Harry run wild for years. A lot of these issues would have never happened if the BRF had a firmer hand on him in his youth, imo. 

[Xanariel]

Meghan has her mother, and even if she wanted to just spend Christmas with Harry alone, there wouldn't be anything wrong with that. 

As I've said, Kate and other in-laws have done it, so I can't see why it would have been taken as a snub, unless there was something about the manner in which it came about (E.g. If they either communicated it in a manner people considered rude or it happened because of the rift). 

I'm not sure about whether the Sussexes will join the Windsor Christmas again. It's not just that they fell out, it's that the Sussexes ran to do a tell-all interview, and then immediately fed private family conversations to the press. This was after they collaborated on Finding Freedom and Meghan leaked about feeling it was unfriendly Kate didn't offer Harry's new girlfriend a ride, so there's pretty evident precedent. 

William seems to loathe Meghan ("the way that bloody woman treated my staff was merciless"). Maybe he could ignore her if it was just a matter of playing nice for the kids - but if you're trying to unwind in a private family event and you're worried that the Sussexes are jotting down every comment and interaction to report back to Gayle King? 

Especially considering how extraordinarily petty some of the things the Sussexes have considered 'slights' were. I doubt any of them are keen on reading the next day papers to see 'Kate didn't make eye contact with Meghan when passing the gravy; the shunning was unbearable', or 'they let Louis open the first present, blatant special treatment of William's kids!'

Fergie was banned for years. I'm not sure that the Sussexes will be so eagerly welcomed back in. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Xanariel

[tabitha2]

Exactly what terrible things did the royal family did or say  to them (Other than The whole “racist”  comment about Archie that us so confused and convoluted by now That it should be taken with a whole can of salt anyway)

Every derogatory and damaging thing said on the record and for the world to here has only come from one way. The Windsors have never played got down on the their level and responded in kind. Which is probably what the Sussex’s were hoping. They do adore playing victim so.

 

 

[Four is Enough]

4 hours ago, Xanariel said:

Fergie was banned for years. I'm not sure that the Sussexes will be so eagerly welcomed back in. 

And while Fergie and Andrew were divorced, she behaved herself much better (after a few gaffes at first) than Harry and Meh-gan have.

[louisa05]

8 hours ago, viii said:

I stand by what I said. Meghan doesn't consider her half-siblings to be family - she didn't grow up with them and they know nothing about her. Samantha only changed her name to Markle after Meghan's relationship with Harry went public. 

Meghan's family is Doria, other relatives we may not be aware about, and close friends. Absolutely it's the exact same as William & Kate visiting the Middleton family at holidays, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be considered the same?

How is there a difference between Carole and Doria? I honestly don't understand it. 

Tom Markle is Samantha’s father. It was her birth name. She changed it back after a divorce as many women do. She’s free to use her birth name no matter what Meghan does. Meghan isn’t the queen of anything and doesn’t own the name. 

[MomJeans]

If I were a gambler, I do think there will be a private Windsor christening.

The Queen is very religious and is the Head of the Church. Harry and Megan's U.K. residence is at Windsor. Typically you christen your child at your local parish church, but I'm not clear which church that would be for a royal residence at Windsor. No matter what everyone is feeling, I don't see the Queen putting up a fight about this.   She will want her great-grandchild christened in the Church of England.

The Queen ultimately has the right to choose what takes place at her private chapel at Windsor, but I don't see her saying no to this.  What we may not see is a big family photograph afterwards.  Though even that I would guess will be done, as being a monarch (or monarch-to-be) involves standing next to many people you may not personally get along with.  

However, I don't forsee the Archbishop of Canterbury doing the baptism 😆

 

[Anna Bolinas]

If the royals can suck it up and accept Prince Rapist's presence, then I should think they can suck it up and accept Meghan's presence. Or is saying mean things about the royal family more of an unforgivable crime than being a sex pest?

[MomJeans]

I don't think Charles, William or Kate do tolerate Andrew.  By all accounts, William and Charles were behind banning Andrew from royal duty.  Neither provides him with funds.  Neither can force Andrew to cooperate with the FBI.  We've seen no evidence of them privately socializing with Andrew.  

I know it's a convenient stick to bash the whole family with, but by all known facts, only the Queen is possibly on Andrew's side, as well as his ex-wife (not a member of the royal family or a working royal) and his daughters (not working royals). 

And, as I was told by another D.A. the first day of my training, mothers always believes their sons, no matter what.  I was warned not to waste my time trying to get a mother to understand her son was guilty.  And for the majority of my work, it was true. Even when there was photo or video evidence.    

 

[tabitha2]

Charles has never been particularly close or chummy with his younger brothers as he is so much older and I have never heard of particularly any close ties between nephews and uncle either. But as long as QE2 is around Andrew he will  be at private family events and holidays and they have to deal with it. 

[Xanariel]

Before going any further, I do feel the need to point out that the Sussexes are actually far closer to Andrew's lot than others. Andrew is Harry's godfather and Harry has by all accounts always been fairly close to him. He's best buds with Andrew's daughters. He was asked directly about Andrew by fake Greta and instead deflected away (even though he had left his role by then). Fergie was around to teach Meghan to curtsey (she wasn't invited to the Cambridge wedding). Andrew was noted to be the only one feeling bad for Harry at Phillip's funeral. 

We don't know what Charles and William feel about Andrew. I expect it's complicated. But Charles apparently was the one to put his foot down about him being removed, and William is alleged to be trying to force him out of the Royal Lodge. In short, if we're talking about Andrew being tolerated by people, it seems Harry is on board quite a bit more than his father and brother. 

Secondly, various members of the BRF were apparently willing to play happy families in public at least, despite the rift. Though William was so angry about the staff treatment that he split their households early on, he and Kate still were photographed at Archie's christening and Kate went on several outings with Meghan even though she must have known Meghan had leaked the ride story. If things were private, it's quite possible they'd grit their teeth and get on with it. 

But Harry has his autobiography coming out that he's apparently thinks is juicy enough to command bidding start at £18 million. He's also got further books planned, including one only to be released when the Queen dies. He's repeatedly leaked to Omid Scobie and Gayle King. He's got a financial interest in selling off further 'behind the scenes' royal info, and I think it's that which will make people want to avoid him. Particularly William, who has a history of cutting out anyone who talks about him to the press. 

I would assume there will be a christening in Windsor eventually. But it's heads or tails if the Queen goes (she hasn't been to quite a few of the great-grandkid christenings) and even if the Wales and Cambridges go, I don't think there'll be official photos. 

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, MomJeans said:

If I were a gambler, I do think there will be a private Windsor christening.

The Queen is very religious and is the Head of the Church. Harry and Megan's U.K. residence is at Windsor. Typically you christen your child at your local parish church, but I'm not clear which church that would be for a royal residence at Windsor. No matter what everyone is feeling, I don't see the Queen putting up a fight about this.   She will want her great-grandchild christened in the Church of England.

The Queen ultimately has the right to choose what takes place at her private chapel at Windsor, but I don't see her saying no to this.  What we may not see is a big family photograph afterwards.  Though even that I would guess will be done, as being a monarch (or monarch-to-be) involves standing next to many people you may not personally get along with.  

However, I don't forsee the Archbishop of Canterbury doing the baptism 😆

The main question I think is whether Meghan and Harry will fly back with the children before the Jubilee to have Lili christened.  

There is no question that if they choose to do so, they would be able to have a christening in the UK with the “royal” christening gown and so forth. The venue could be Windsor chapel— I think the Queen would definitely allow it.  There is a question whether the Queen would attend. (She doesn’t always attend the great-grandkids christenings. She has a busy schedule.)  Since Archie’s christening was private, I am sure that Lili’s will be also, regardless of where it happens.

Scobie (the Finding Freedom author) doesn’t think that M & H will fly back for a christening.  He thinks they will wait until the Jubilee to introduce Lilibet to her great-grandmother.  His reasoning is the difficulty of traveling with such young kids. (I posted a link about this some msgs back.)  I tend to think that Scobie has (ahem) a lot inside information about the Sussexes.

Therefore, my latest theory is that if the Sussexes do plan to have Lili christened in the UK, it may not happen until the Jubilee.  This would be a little on the late side for an Anglican christening — under 6 months is more common— but it’s possible.

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

The main question I think is whether Meghan and Harry will fly back with the children before the Jubilee to have Lili christened.  

There is no question that if they choose to do so, they would be able to have a christening in the UK with the “royal” christening gown and so forth. The venue could be Windsor chapel— I think the Queen would definitely allow it.  There is a question whether the Queen would attend. (She doesn’t always attend the great-grandkids christenings. She has a busy schedule.)  Since Archie’s christening was private, I am sure that Lili’s will be also, regardless of where it happens.

Scobie (the Finding Freedom author) doesn’t think that M & H will fly back for a christening.  He thinks they will wait until the Jubilee to introduce Lilibet to her great-grandmother.  His reasoning is the difficulty of traveling with such young kids. (I posted a link about this some msgs back.)  I tend to think that Scobie has (ahem) a lot inside information about the Sussexes.

Therefore, my latest theory is that if the Sussexes do plan to have Lili christened in the UK, it may not happen until the Jubilee.  This would be a little on the late side for an Anglican christening — under 6 months is more common— but it’s possible.

I do wonder though. I can totally see them playing on a big family reunion, first picture of L, her meeting her great-grandmother and a royal christening all in front of the massive backdrop and the associated attention of the Jubilee. BUT it might just be that there will be no slot (or no one is willing to make the slot). HMTQ, Charles and the Cambs will be out in full force. The Wessexes and Anne too. Heck, the Queen was too busy for several christenings even without a Jubilee year. I think the monarchy will not be impressed by the wish of putting even more work into this year. It’s already insane. It would be different if the monarchy would be under pressure but H&M have lost the goodwill of the UK. There is no significant PR gain in it for them. As long as they gag Fergie and hide Andy (maybe secretly deport him on an island far far away) it will be smooth, and every whining of H&M will be seen as petty and entitled as this year will be about HMTQ and not them.

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

Scobie (the Finding Freedom author) doesn’t think that M & H will fly back for a christening.  He thinks they will wait until the Jubilee to introduce Lilibet to her great-grandmother.  His reasoning is the difficulty of traveling with such young kids. (I posted a link about this some msgs back.)  I tend to think that Scobie has (ahem) a lot inside information about the Sussexes.

Just throwing this out there…but flying with a child under one is usually much easier than a child who is old enough to be mobile, but not old enough to be entertained by extra screen time and lots of special snacks (roughly 15 months-3 years). Waiting until Lili is over one will not making flying “easier.” An aunt who had to fly cross country many times for family events told me that babies were the easiest to fly with because you could nurse them at take off and landing and they still slept a lot. I also had to fly a lot when mine were little and took her advice and would nurse or bottle feed at take off and landing and realized she was right…infants were definitely easier to take on a plane than the toddler/preschooler age (although we did that plenty of that as well).

If Harry and Meghan are waiting to go back for a visit it’s probably really because

1) pandemic (but they’d be flying on a private plane with their own bubble, so they could make it work) 

or

2) nobody on either side is ready to get together yet (most likely reason)
The children’s age is probably just an excuse, because they’d charter a jet, have a nanny, and possibly even more extra help. It’s not like they’d be crammed into business class on a commercial airline, juggling snacks, sippy cups, toys, passing the kids back-and-forth between the two of them, trying to make sure they don’t run out of battery on the tablet, and trying to decide who’s turn it is to change the next diaper in a too-small bathroom like “normal” people.

If they’re not going to England now it’s because they don’t want to. The kids’ age has little to do with it.

3 hours ago, Xanariel said:

Before going any further, I do feel the need to point out that the Sussexes are actually far closer to Andrew's lot than others. Andrew is Harry's godfather and Harry has by all accounts always been fairly close to him. He's best buds with Andrew's daughters. He was asked directly about Andrew by fake Greta and instead deflected away (even though he had left his role by then). Fergie was around to teach Meghan to curtsey (she wasn't invited to the Cambridge wedding). Andrew was noted to be the only one feeling bad for Harry at Phillip's funeral. 

We don't know what Charles and William feel about Andrew. I expect it's complicated. But Charles apparently was the one to put his foot down about him being removed, and William is alleged to be trying to force him out of the Royal Lodge. In short, if we're talking about Andrew being tolerated by people, it seems Harry is on board quite a bit more than his father and brother. 

Good point! Considering that Meghan has leaned towards wanting to focus on women’s issues (and has spoken in favor of Me Too and Time’s Up) and hasn’t minded speaking up about the BRF’s injustice towards her specifically, I think it’s odd that she hasn’t felt it necessary to advocate for any of the women who’ve made accusations against Andrew.

[viii]

17 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Tom Markle is Samantha’s father. It was her birth name. She changed it back after a divorce as many women do. She’s free to use her birth name no matter what Meghan does. Meghan isn’t the queen of anything and doesn’t own the name. 

I actually did a little more digging on this because I was curious. Turns out - Meghan lied (again!). Meghan clearly stated (on the Oprah interview, I believe) that Samantha changed her last name once Meghan's relationship with Harry went public (so 2016 or 2017, I can't remember). I googled Samantha and she was born Markle, got married and divorced, got married and divorced again, and changed her name back to Markle in 1996. Now, the only way that Meghan is telling the truth is if Samantha got divorced around 2016ish, which is possible. Google doesn't tell me. 

I do find it interesting though that Samantha is estranged from all three of her adult children, her mother, her brother and her half-sister. It says a lot when nobody in your family is willing to speak to you. 

9 hours ago, Xanariel said:

But Harry has his autobiography coming out that he's apparently thinks is juicy enough to command bidding start at £18 million. He's also got further books planned, including one only to be released when the Queen dies.

Somebody needs to shut this damn fool up. So tacky. 

[just_ordinary]

@DalmatianCat I kind off get why they don’t address it directly. It’s not their scandal and they haven’t publicly socialised with him since. Same goes for his ever supportive ex-but they weren’t feeling that saying she was the one that helped M. with the curtesy they might be seen as amicable with her and that could implicate her actions. 
 I do think with all their female empowerment claims (several over the years) they could have made a statement in highlighting a charity that supports women in similar situations. I actually think the whole BRF should have (together with making Andrew step back from everything and disappear, but that’s beating a dead horse).

BUT they won’t at that point. For the simple fact that, as long as he isn’t proven guilty HMTQ will not kick him out. And they have been very careful not to go toe to toe directly with her. And because Fergie is not bound by the same rules the BRF plays by. She would have no problem dragging them through the mud, and whatever Andrew or her daughter’s know, she knows too. They talk nice about her, she does too.

The second HMTQ dies and Charles still isn’t giving them a dime (and stops handing out Princly titles for the offspring of second and later borns) they will talk about it. Because it will bring them money. Their “one interview to address it once and for all” has ended in several follow up interviews all circling around the BRF, several leaks of private conversations and statements whining that still nobody wants to talk to them. They are sell outs and they have two big topics left to cash in. Who is the racist and My predator uncle. We just have to wait.

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I do wonder though. I can totally see them playing on a big family reunion, first picture of L, her meeting her great-grandmother and a royal christening all in front of the massive backdrop and the associated attention of the Jubilee. BUT it might just be that there will be no slot (or no one is willing to make the slot). HMTQ, Charles and the Cambs will be out in full force. The Wessexes and Anne too. Heck, the Queen was too busy for several christenings even without a Jubilee year. I think the monarchy will not be impressed by the wish of putting even more work into this year. It’s already insane. It would be different if the monarchy would be under pressure but H&M have lost the goodwill of the UK. There is no significant PR gain in it for them. As long as they gag Fergie and hide Andy (maybe secretly deport him on an island far far away) it will be smooth, and every whining of H&M will be seen as petty and entitled as this year will be about HMTQ and not them.

I just had to chuckle at the bolded.  But don’t you think they could just send both Fergie and Andy together to that desert island?  Saves trouble with gagging and might help keep them both out of mischief.😉

This raises the idea of a private island somewhere that can be billed as a resort for embarrassing relatives.  😉

[viii]

I think Andrew has spent enough time on private islands. 

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Just throwing this out there…but flying with a child under one is usually much easier than a child who is old enough to be mobile, but not old enough to be entertained by extra screen time and lots of special snacks (roughly 15 months-3 years). Waiting until Lili is over one will not making flying “easier.”   ….

I agree.  It’s no bigger deal to fly with a 3 month-old than to fly with a 10 month old, and once they start walking it becomes more difficult to handle them on long trips.  However, as you point out, the Sussexes would probably have use of a private plane, which would make even flying with a toddler easier to handle than if you are flying economy.

However, the pandemic is definitely an issue.  I know a lot of parents who are being super careful about taking their infants anywhere during the pandemic. One of them told me the vaccine for infants is expected to be ready at the end of this year/beginning of the next.  I could see the Sussexes waiting for this before they travel with the kids, but since there are no rumors about this (yet) it obviously hasn’t occurred to the press, (Headline: “Meghan says the Queen can’t see the grandchildren until they are vaccinated.” Or “Harry and Meghan delay their trip to the UK for this reason.”  Etc.) 

In any case, whatever explanation they are giving, the important thing is that Scobie (who is usually a good source for what the Sussexes want to put out there) thinks they won’t be traveling to the UK until the Jubilee.

21 minutes ago, viii said:

I think Andrew has spent enough time on private islands. 

😄😄😄

Well, there are islands and islands, aren’t there?  Alcatraz is an island.  😄

[Xanariel]

3 hours ago, viii said:

  do find it interesting though that Samantha is estranged from all three of her adult children, her mother, her brother and her half-sister. It says a lot when nobody in your family is willing to speak to you. 

Samantha genuinely appears to be a completely horrible person. As soon as the news about Harry/Meghan leaked, she was constantly on Twitter, calling Meghan a shallow social climber who wasn't good enough for the royals. Fast forward to the engagement, and she was suddenly all politeness, calling Meghan charming and sweet and saying how lovely it would be to get the family together for the wedding. I remember after Meghan cut her father off, Samantha was calling her the "Duch-ass" and saying it was "time to bow down to Daddy". 

Plus, her own mother mentioned that Samantha used to tell her friends that Doria was the maid rather than her stepmother. 

As with Thomas, I think that any bad behaviour of Meghan's own part doesn't cancel out their damaging behaviour. Most of the Markles appear to have a lot of issues. 

[tabitha2]

“Lot of issues” is an understatement! They are a bunch spiteful mean spirited untrustworthy jealous individuals.  Real talk Meghan may not actually know how a close and functional family with members who got your back and won’t backstab works because she never had one   And that’s terrible. 

[viii]

Well, that might be a stretch. Her mother has proven to be a dependable and stable figure in her daughter's life. Meghan might also have family and friends that we don't know about because of their discretion. 

However, I do agree that it's likely neither Harry nor Meghan have had real examples of healthy marriages and family relationships, which explains a lot. Hopefully they can break the family cycles together and do better for their children. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by viii

[tabitha2]

The Queen and Phillip, most of the older relatives, Edward and Sophie ,Ann and Tim Laurence even their own fathers second marriage are  examples of normal(ish) functioning if not exactly super Romantic  marriages as far as we know. Andrew and Sarah co parented, raised good women and get along better than they ever did married So there are examples for Harry to learn from.