Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary

[EmCatlyn]

Appearing on Good Morning America this morning (Aug 31), Omid Scobie offered an interesting interpretation/justification for the Oprah interview. 

Quote

"There was this feeling that the couple had walked away from the monarchy because they just wanted more. They wanted to earn money in a different way," he said. "But actually what we heard was a story that helped us understand why they were so unhappy within that space as well, not only dealing with racism, but having their mental health suppressed or ignored by certain quarters of the institution."

I also found it interesting that Scobie identified “courtiers” (not the family) as the source of the problems.

Quote

"Those that work for the institution of the monarchy have one job, and that is to sort of uphold the values of the crown and maintain the image of the crown," said Scobie. "The focus is always going to be on the crown, and Harry and Meghan found themselves victim to that many times over because, ultimately, they are not the crown."

However, when discussing whether the rift between Harry and his family can be healed, Scobie said,

Quote

“I think one thing was clear from both sides is that everyone feels that some accountability and ownership in each other's roles in all of this has to be taken for people to move forward. Whether that happens, we shall see."

I don’t think Scobie means that the “accountability and ownership” has to come from the “courtiers” who he says were just doing their job but from the royal family.  
 

Source: Good Morning America -Aug 31, 2021

[Xanariel]

I was also pretty interested that the updated FF epilogue now states that Meghan did know her earrings were from MBS, but that it was all fine, because the Queen and Diana both received jewels from the Saudis as well. 

For the record, while diplomacy may require accepting gifts from despotic regimes, I do think that actually publicly wearing them is another matter. I think Kate, the Queen and other female royals have done this, and they should be criticised for it as well. 

But wearing jewels from a specific person who was at that very moment hitting headlines for having a journalist dismembered? When your aides were explicitly telling you it would look bad and you shouldn't do it? 

If Kate decided to debut earrings given to her by Putin a few weeks after Salisbury, I'd say she deserved to get criticised from every quarter over it. I genuinely don't get the thought process; Meghan was spending money hand over fist on clothes, but couldn't pick up some jewellery rather than wear the gift? 

[EmCatlyn]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:00 AM, Xanariel said:

I was also pretty interested that the updated FF epilogue now states that Meghan did know her earrings were from MBS, but that it was all fine, because the Queen and Diana both received jewels from the Saudis as well. 

I have never been impressed by the “they did it too,” argument when someone is caught doing something wrong. 🙄

As far as the earrings go, the timing has a lot to do with the criticism.  Significantly, the book epilogue doesn’t seem to differentiate between what the queen and Kate may have done in the past and what Meghan did more recently.

Finding Freedom really over-does the pro-Meghan and Harry bias.

[EmCatlyn]

File this under “add a big pinch of salt” because it comes from the Sun.

A source claims that Harry and Meghan have offered to fly back to the UK to meet with the Queen and make plans to get Lilibet christened at Windsor.  (The christening at Windsor would have to be planned for October or later because the Queen is in Scotland until then.)

Quote

A source said: “Harry and Meghan have made this offer but a lot of people are shocked by the sheer nerve of it. They may genuinely want to see the Queen but it’s breathtaking given what they’ve put her through this year.

”Her Majesty’s staff have not responded so far. In fact there has also been discussion about Christmas — and whether an invitation should be sent to Harry and Meghan, after they spurned one last year. 

"The Queen is still very fond of Harry, and would love to see Lilibet and her brother Archie.

“But courtiers are surprised by the move, especially from Meghan, after what has happened.”

For what it’s worth, I am pretty sure the Sun means “year before last” rather than “last year” when referring to the Sussexes rejecting an invitation for  Christmas.

The reference to Lili’s christening, however, may have some truth since different sources have reported that Harry wants her baptized in the UK. 

[just_ordinary]

12 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I have never been impressed by the “they did it too,” argument when someone is caught doing something wrong. 🙄

As far as the earrings go, the timing has a lot to do with the criticism.  Significantly, the book epilogue doesn’t seem to differentiate between what the queen and Kate may have done in the past and what Meghan did more recently.

Finding Freedom really over-does the pro-Meghan and Harry bias.

Exactly. All royal families should take a serious look at their relationships to those houses.
 But wearing those earrings, that are your wedding gift, three weeks after the journalist was murdered and everyone talked about the Crown Prince’s involvement? And then wearing them again? And then, instead of claiming you maybe didn’t know because (let’s be honest) you got so much stuff and didn’t go through everything yourself, and that you will refrain from wearing them again? No, let’s make up a stupid excuse that was easily proven wrong. That was idiotic and she deserved that criticism. 
If any of the others (HMTQ, Camilla, Kate) would pull such a stunt, it would probably be even worse. They are on the throne or on their way to it. What they do holds much more significance in those matters and they would be slagged off and rightly so.
And all jewels they have received in the past should stay hidden away.

[viii]

Spurned their Christmas invitation? Get the fuck over it. Meghan has family and there’s nothing wrong with taking turns. William and Kate do the same thing with her family. 

[Xanariel]

Given how quickly the relations between the Cambridges and Sussexes broke down, it's possible that the decision behind spending Christmas elsewhere was more acrimonious than initially portrayed. That's the only reason I can think of for aides taking umbrage over it, because, as pointed out, other royals have gone to the in-laws on Christmas before. 

I can understand Harry wanting his daughter baptised as per family tradition. But I'm not sure what kind of christening he's envisioning. I'm sure the Yorks would come, and quite possibly the Queen (though she's missed other great-grandchild christening). But I don't know about Charles, and I can't see William smiling for the camera when Meghan's around.

[viii]

I think William will do whatever the Queen says and if she says smile he will beam brighter than the sun at the camera. 

[tabitha2]

5 hours ago, viii said:

Spurned their Christmas invitation? Get the fuck over it. Meghan has family and there’s nothing wrong with taking turns. William and Kate do the same thing with her family. 

Other than Doria and maybe some cousins She has no real family. Meghan  just shares DNA with Tacky messy back biters who mostly hate her and regularly throw her under the bus or try too. It’s ridiculous to compare The relatively close normal (ish) Middletons to that dumpster fire. 

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, viii said:

Spurned their Christmas invitation? Get the fuck over it. Meghan has family and there’s nothing wrong with taking turns. William and Kate do the same thing with her family. 

To be fair, the choice of the word “spurned” was the Sun’s, not the royal courtiers.  

I don’t remember there being any criticism or concern about the Sussexes not spending 2019 Christmas with the Royals.  I think there was probably something brewing in the background, though, because the “stepping back” announcement came in January.

Thinking back, the choice to not spend Christmas with Harry’s family may have been less about spending time with Meghan’s mom and more about getting away from tensions in the family — which is fine, as far as I am concerned, but could color how some people remember the event.

Edited September 5, 2021 by EmCatlyn

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Xanariel said:

I can understand Harry wanting his daughter baptised as per family tradition. But I'm not sure what kind of christening he's envisioning. I'm sure the Yorks would come, and quite possibly the Queen (though she's missed other great-grandchild christening). But I don't know about Charles, and I can't see William smiling for the camera when Meghan's around.

I think Charles and the Cambridges would come to a christening.  I think they still love Harry even if they are mad at him and can’t stand Meghan.  And Charles in particular would want to see Archie again and meet Lili.

They won’t need to do a lot of “smiling for the cameras.” It would be a private ceremony, as Archie’s was, and there will be just a few formal pictures.  Royals are used to keeping their feelings out of formal pictures. 😉

I could see a small, family-and-close-friends only ceremony and any social interaction before and after kept pretty superficial and civilized.  Even non-royals can be polite to in-laws they may hate for brief periods. 😉

[tabitha2]

Harry is still their son, brother, cousin Etc.  I am sure given enough time and understanding and desire they could reconcile. Goes without saying they would want the children back in fold as well. 
 

But Meghan will probably never really be accepted or welcomed again. They may smile and be  polite but they won’t want to be more than that.  

[viii]

4 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Other than Doria and maybe some cousins She has no real family. Meghan  just shares DNA with Tacky messy back biters who mostly hate her and regularly throw her under the bus or try too. It’s ridiculous to compare The relatively close normal (ish) Middletons to that dumpster fire. 

It doesn’t matter if Doria is the only person in Meghan’s life (she’s not). They are entitled to spend every other year (or every year if they choose) with her. The Middletons have their demons as well and aren’t perfect. It’s a completely fair comparison to say both Meghan and Kate deserve to celebrate the holidays with their own families. 

[tabitha2]

Sure are entitled( in more ways than one …) but if they blow off the Queens invites constantly not only is it rude they can’t expect her or his family to cater to them . It’s just politic  to cater to and spend time with both sides. 
 

I never said the Middletons  were perfect. No family is. But how you can compare the toxic  bitter behavior of  Mr Markle and her older step siblings siblings to Kates family is beyond me. 

But I’m game where is this Markle family worth spending Holidays with? Because Cutting turkey with bitter siblings that hate you and opening presents with a grandpa who will probably go straight to the media afterwards is so fun. 
 

 

[just_ordinary]

I highly doubt we see a Windsor christening. And if there is a christening in the UK with family I wouldn’t be surprised to not see any pictures. But very honestly, H&M don’t seem to desperate to reconcile (apart from demanding apologies and engagement after they talk badly about them again and again).
 

So, if they wanted HMTQ or Charles or whoever to meet the new baby or, I don’t know, meet A again it’s could have been done for a long time. The children aren’t much safer in terms of health now than a month ago or 4 months from now. I think the first of round of important vaccines is done after 12/18 months? So if that was a concern they would wait longer. Or am I screwing up the alleged dates?

I also highly doubt they are that desperate to christen the baby. Apart from HMTQ they are all very much cultural Christians like the majority. We christen them cause that’s what you do, there is no harm in it but a nice family get together and in the unlikely case there is something about it you are on the safe side. Having a “royal” christening is solely about the royal aspect. And while I understand if Harry wants to hold on this traditions, he shit on the whole thing all right. To me it sounds more entitled and like a desperate attention grab than anything else.

 I think, if they want to christen her they should organise a christening in the US. Invite your in laws. They can afford to come and with enough time ahead it should be possible. The Queen would probably be a no-show again anyway. She wasn’t at Louis and Archie’s christening. I can totally see her not coming again.

Maybe I am too hard. But the way they go about things just rubs me the wrong way.

[EmCatlyn]

27 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I highly doubt we see a Windsor christening. And if there is a christening in the UK with family I wouldn’t be surprised to not see any pictures. But very honestly, H&M don’t seem to desperate to reconcile (apart from demanding apologies and engagement after they talk badly about them again and again).

So, if they wanted HMTQ or Charles or whoever to meet the new baby or, I don’t know, meet A again it’s could have been done for a long time. The children aren’t much safer in terms of health now than a month ago or 4 months from now. I think the first of round of important vaccines is done after 12/18 months? So if that was a concern they would wait longer. Or am I screwing up the alleged dates?

I also highly doubt they are that desperate to christen the baby. Apart from HMTQ they are all very much cultural Christians like the majority. We christen them cause that’s what you do, there is no harm in it but a nice family get together and in the unlikely case there is something about it you are on the safe side. Having a “royal” christening is solely about the royal aspect. And while I understand if Harry wants to hold on this traditions, he shit on the whole thing all right. To me it sounds more entitled and like a desperate attention grab than anything else.

I think, if they want to christen her they should organise a christening in the US. Invite your in laws. They can afford to come and with enough time ahead it should be possible. The Queen would probably be a no-show again anyway. She wasn’t at Louis and Archie’s christening. I can totally see her not coming again.

Maybe I am too hard. But the way they go about things just rubs me the wrong way.

I think a Windsor christening is unlikely, and I am not even sure that Meghan and Harry really want it. Like many other things, it is just rumors.

However, I could see them wanting for Lilibet the same sort of christening that Archie had.  (There is, among other things, a traditional christening gown.) Parents often want their kids to go through the same rituals. I could also see Harry hoping christening his daughter in the UK would soften his family a little toward him.  Further, while I don’t think anyone would realistically expect the Queen to attend, Harry might believe that having the baby christened at Windsor would please her.

I agree completely that they do not seem particularly religious. This makes it unlikely that they would have a “big event” christening in California even if they thought anyone in the family, except maybe the Yorks and possibly a Spencer aunt or cousin, might come.  If they christen Lilibet at all in the US, I suspect it would be very quiet and ostentatiously private. (Oprah might be invited—but it would be Private. 😉) 

As for the Sussexes being able to take Archie back to the UK to visit, let’s be fair and remember that the pandemic has been a problem.  Traveling with kids is never easy, especially a long distance. The pandemic makes it worse.

However, like you I am skeptical of everything they do and say, and I agree that it would be inconsistent with their behavior towards the family to suddenly turn around and want a “royal” christening for Lillibet.  (And they haven’t done so.  It’s only rumors.) At the same time, they aren’t always consistent, much of what they have done makes no sense, and their apparent belief that the other royals owe them makes anything possible.  So who knows.

[viii]

17 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

But how you can compare the toxic  bitter behavior of  Mr Markle and her older step siblings siblings to Kates family is beyond me. 

Nobody made that comparison. 

[just_ordinary]

8 hours ago, viii said:

Nobody made that comparison. 

Well yes, Tabitha did? Some people just don’t think it holds up.

[EmCatlyn]

Quote

Omid Scobie, author of "Finding Freedom" spoke about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex on the "Royally Obsessed" podcast. He shared his thoughts on the royal couple's plan for next year's Jubilee and he said Prince Harry and Markle will likely attend the event.

"There was a lot of talk about the couple coming back for some element of the Jubilee next year, and I do think that that will still be the case," he said. "Will it be a balcony moment? I don’t think so, but I do think that the couple will want to acknowledge it in their own way."

"By then, it’s a very safe time to come over, the children are old enough to fly a little bit more comfortably. I imagine with a newborn at the end of the day this is a newborn child, I think they’re going to want to do that - especially the long overseas trip - when it’s a lot more comfortable," he added.

He also said that instead of using their daughter baby Lili's christening as the opportunity to return to the U.K. to be with the royal family, Jubilee would be an appropriate event for the couple to visit Prince Harry's homeland.

International Business Times 9/5/21

I thought this was interesting since Scobie seems to have so much “insider” information about the Sussexes.  It would seem that the “friends” who are allegedly reporting that H & M want to have the baby christened at Windsor this year have not been talking to Scobie. 

The “easier to travel next year for the jubilee” point is only common sense.  However, it is not unlikely that Scobie has heard it from the same sources that seem to know that the Sussexes considered disclosing the name of The Royal Who Made the Racist Remark and that Meghan and Harry are disappointed the RF hasn’t taken “ownership” etc. 

😉

[viii]

41 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Well yes, Tabitha did? Some people just don’t think it holds up.

No, Tabitha said I made the comparison when I did not. Much like Meghan herself has said, I don’t consider her half siblings to be family to her. 

[tabitha2]

  
@viii You  implied going to Visit her “family” is just the same as Kate and William going to visit the Middletons at the Holidays. It’s absolutely not. 
 

“Meghan has family and there’s nothing wrong with taking turns.William and Kate do the same thing with her family” 
 

 

 

[anjulibai]

Doria is Meghan's family, not the toxic Markles. 

[viii]

3 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

  
@viii You  implied going to Visit her “family” is just the same as Kate and William going to visit the Middletons at the Holidays. It’s absolutely not. 
 

“Meghan has family and there’s nothing wrong with taking turns.William and Kate do the same thing with her family” 

I stand by what I said. Meghan doesn't consider her half-siblings to be family - she didn't grow up with them and they know nothing about her. Samantha only changed her name to Markle after Meghan's relationship with Harry went public. 

Meghan's family is Doria, other relatives we may not be aware about, and close friends. Absolutely it's the exact same as William & Kate visiting the Middleton family at holidays, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be considered the same?

How is there a difference between Carole and Doria? I honestly don't understand it. 

[Topaz]

The only difference I can see is that the Cambridges can do Christmas with one side and the after Christmas period for the other side, whereas the Sussexes wouldn’t be able to do that given the distances involved. So it looks more like a snub from the Sussexes because they are missing the full period of Christmas. 
 

(Alternatively the only difference is that Meghan can’t do anything right even if she’s doing the same thing as Catherine)

[viii]

1 hour ago, Topaz said:

(Alternatively the only difference is that Meghan can’t do anything right even if she’s doing the same thing as Catherine)

Ding ding ding.