Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary

[EmCatlyn]

2 minutes ago, viii said:

I wonder what would happen if they did split. Would Harry go back home to England? Would he retract everything he’s said? Would Meghan turn on him? It’d be interesting to watch. 

It would be so hard for the children! ☹️  For us, it would be a great show. 🤣

[viii]

Yes, I’d feel bad for the kids. But as someone not involved…. 🍿🍿🍿

[just_ordinary]

51 minutes ago, viii said:

I wonder what would happen if they did split. Would Harry go back home to England? Would he retract everything he’s said? Would Meghan turn on him? It’d be interesting to watch. 

I would hope they could spare their family the drama. Also don’t think that H would go back if she wouldn’t do so. I think both might want to go for shared custody and both have now their businesses in the US. She can not crawl back into the BRF and he should have the decency to not do it too. Both parents should be easily available and find an amicable way to be around each other with the kids. I would think very badly of either of them if one would actually live that far away. They are in the extremely privileged position to cater to their children’s needs and wishes in that case (which is often enough not the case for the ordinary person that needs to work or take care of others as well and cannot just fly to visit granny for her birthday). Yes, private jet and all but one shouldn’t underestimate the importance of parents being present for ordinary and boring every day life.

I can see it going either way to be honest. At best they live all happily ever after together, it’s just that I don’t feel it. But I am happy if I am going to be proven wrong.

Edited August 7, 2021 by just_ordinary

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I don’t see them breaking up. I think he’ll cling to her as desperately as Edward clung to Wallis. More so, since they have kids together.

[just_ordinary]

53 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I don’t see them breaking up. I think he’ll cling to her as desperately as Edward clung to Wallis. More so, since they have kids together.

But it’s not his choice alone, is it?

[Coconut Flan]

If she tires of him or he loses his usefulness, he's gone.  

[DalmatianCat]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

 

I am not against quick marriages and starting a family straight at your wedding night (or before- don’t want to give the wrong impression) but I do think this marriage is strained. 

I wonder about this, too…I think Meghan would fare better if they divorce. She’s living in the country where she grew up, in a culture she understands. She would most likely have primary custody of the kids, could possibly go back to acting or a variety of other projects that she chooses. She wouldn’t just be locked into all the charity projects that she and Harry have committed to.

Harry would have a harder time…without Meghan I think he’d flounder figuring out projects, opportunities, building a team, etc. He’s done a fantastic job of burning bridges back home, so I don’t see him becoming a full time Royal again (for many years at least).  But depending on how contentious a divorce could be, he might eventually find the familiarity of England and “home” a refuge. He might realize that being British makes much more sense to him than being American, and he actually has more influence as a part of the Royal family than as just another rich celebrity across the pond.

[tabitha2]

I have no idea if this Applies to the British Royals or if it’s just for direct heirs but in some monarchies spouses have to sign  an agreement that the custody of the children goes to the royal in case of divorce. I mean technically thanks to that 300 year old edict  QEii has custody anyway. It’s never been taken off the books.

[Coconut Flan]

They're currently resident in California.  I don't think the courts here care what's on the books in the UK.  

[DalmatianCat]

46 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

They're currently resident in California.  I don't think the courts here care what's on the books in the UK.  

Agreed…and while they’re not always brilliant at PR (their refusals to comment is typically their smartest strategy), I think the RF would be smart enough to stay out of any custody issues. After the last year, I don’t think they’ll be going to bat for Harry anytime soon.

Its hard to tell now with covid, but the Sussex children will most likely not be close to Harry’s side of the family (which seems a little sad for Charles…parenting opinions aside, in pictures with the Cambridge children he seems like a doting grandpa).

[tabitha2]

Seems like they will be a little unit of four plus maybe Doria. No matter how much Harry wants to play the “Poor Little rich kid deprived of fun and love” card we know he had a blast playing and making mischief with his cousins and distant cousins and he enjoyed being with grandparents very much because he said as much before . His own children will probably never much get that and I find that kind of sad. 

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I have no idea if this Applies to the British Royals or if it’s just for direct heirs but in some monarchies spouses have to sign  an agreement that the custody of the children goes to the royal in case of divorce. I mean technically thanks to that 300 year old edict  QEii has custody anyway. It’s never been taken off the books.

The Queen does not have custody. That was a single case that applied to a single grandchild. Even if it were considered  precedent, it would not apply to great grandchildren.  One evidence that she has no legal standing in custody of grandchildren was that she was not even legally an interested party in custody decisions when three of her children divorced with minor children.  
And Sarah and Diana both had primary custody of their children after divorcing which indicates that there are no legal agreements or precedents giving custody to the royal parent.  Additionally, unless something changes, H&M would be in a CA court that would have no obligation to adhere to any British precedent. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Seems like they will be a little unit of four plus maybe Doria. No matter how much Harry wants to play the “Poor Little rich kid deprived of fun and love” card we know he had a blast playing and making mischief with his cousins and distant cousins and he enjoyed being with grandparents very much because he said as much before . His own children will probably never much get that and I find that kind of sad. 

The Sussex kids will probably have the kids of other Hollywood celebrities to play with.  Families don’t always stay within the same geographical area, so being separated from  the extended family is not necessarily the worst thing that will happen to the Sussex kids.   (I see them having more trouble being “royal” and also Americans.)

There is hope, however, that once the Pandemic has eased and the kids  are a bit older, Harry will want to spend extended periods in Great Britain.  I could see them acquiring a country “cottage” and spending part of their summers there.  Right now the novelty of America may be great, but Harry could get a little homesick.   Who knows?

Although they have burnt a lot of bridges (and seem to plan to burn more), Harry still has family and friends that he may want to connect with.  The fact that they have (supposedly) expressed a wish/interest in having Lili christened at Windsor suggests that they have some hope (delusion?) that the family connection can be preserved.

[viii]

We live in an amazing age where technology exists and keeps families connected. Harry and Meghan are not the first and only people to be raising their children away from family. Both my sisters live on the other side of the country for me but through visits and FaceTime, I’ve kept a strong connection with my niblings. Charles can certainly do the same (eventually, since I doubt he’s speaking much to Harry these days). 

It is unfortunate that Archie and Lili won’t grow up beside their cousins but lots of cousins don’t get that privilege. I am sure they will have lots of other friends and family doesn’t have to be blood connections. 

[louisa05]

4 hours ago, viii said:

We live in an amazing age where technology exists and keeps families connected. Harry and Meghan are not the first and only people to be raising their children away from family. Both my sisters live on the other side of the country for me but through visits and FaceTime, I’ve kept a strong connection with my niblings. Charles can certainly do the same (eventually, since I doubt he’s speaking much to Harry these days). 

It is unfortunate that Archie and Lili won’t grow up beside their cousins but lots of cousins don’t get that privilege. I am sure they will have lots of other friends and family doesn’t have to be blood connections. 

People love to say this. But in my experience, when the shit hits the fan, it's actual family that is there. The "friends who are family" just aren't. When a close relative dies, the "friends who are family" don't feel that loss the way your actual family does. And if it isn't convenient to be there, they aren't there. When there's a lot of distance, real family is more committed to bridging it and staying close. Friends are often seasonal and those relationships don't always stay close. Family is not usually that way.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

People love to say this. But in my experience, when the shit hits the fan, it's actual family that is there. The "friends who are family" just aren't. When a close relative dies, the "friends who are family" don't feel that loss the way your actual family does. And if it isn't convenient to be there, they aren't there. When there's a lot of distance, real family is more committed to bridging it and staying close. Friends are often seasonal and those relationships don't always stay close. Family is not usually that way.

I think it varies tremendously from family to family.  In my family, my brother and I are still “close” though we live in different cities, but the cousins have all become distant emotionally as well as physically.  I have a couple of close friends who are like family who I expect will be there for me.  My brother has a friend who is almost a brother.

When our mother died, my friends, not my cousins, were at the funeral service which was held in my town. (My brother flew down.  My cousins didn’t.) Ten years earlier, when my father died and the funeral service was where my cousins lived, one of the cousins, who was on vacation, diid not cut her vacation short. (We didn’t mind.  I just give this to illustrate that family isn’t always there for funerals and such.) 

You can’t be sure that family will be more loyal than friends.  From the point of children finding companions to play with, a large extended family can be nice, but so can a community of friends.

[DalmatianCat]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think it varies tremendously from family to family.  In my family, my brother and I are still “close” though we live in different cities, but the cousins have all become distant emotionally as well as physically.  I have a couple of close friends who are like family who I expect will be there for me.  My brother has a friend who is almost a brother.

When our mother died, my friends, not my cousins, were at the funeral service which was held in my town. (My brother flew down.  My cousins didn’t.) Ten years earlier, when my father died and the funeral service was where my cousins lived, one of the cousins, who was on vacation, diid not cut her vacation short. (We didn’t mind.  I just give this to illustrate that family isn’t always there for funerals and such.) 

You can’t be sure that family will be more loyal than friends.  From the point of children finding companions to play with, a large extended family can be nice, but so can a community of friends.

I feel like this can go either way with Harry and Meghan. I’ve been much closer to friends than family at many points in my life. Example…an aunt and an uncle both passed away this year, but other than a few tears and a few hours of sadness, life basically moved on for me. They’re were lovely people, but I had not lived in the same part of the country as them for years, didn’t keep up with their daily lives, and they didn’t with mine. I have fond memories of them from childhood, but I didn’t feel particularly obligated to get on a plane to go to their funerals. On the other hand, a close friend passed away unexpectedly a couple years ago and even though we’d only known each other for three years we were very close and I cried for days after she passed and will still tear up a few times a year when thinking about her. 
I’ve also never been close to my cousins on a social level the way I have with friends, but my cousins are still my family that I feel inexplicable ties to and the knowledge that we will always have a shared history. There are friends that I felt incredibly close to for a few years, and then we slowly drift away or in and out of each other’s lives. 
Harry and Meghan both seem like they do fairly well with their friends. Harry and William had a very tight-knit group for years who have been incredibly loyal and don’t tend to blab to the press. Meghan—it’s a bit harder to tell who she’s actually close to outside of Jessica Mulroney. But there has never been tons of stories of former friends spilling dirt about her, so most of her adult friends either feel rather loyal to her, or maybe she just never had that many friends.

I think they’ll both discover that making friends as adults/parents is harder and their friends will naturally start trending towards the parents of their children’s friends.

Edited August 9, 2021 by DalmatianCat
Typo

[EmCatlyn]

41 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

Harry and Meghan both seem like they do fairly well with their friends. Harry and William had a very tight-knit group for years who have been incredibly loyal and don’t tend to blab to the press. Meghan—it’s a bit harder to tell who she’s actually close to outside of Jessica Mulroney. But there has never been tons of stories of former friends spilling dirt about her, so most of her adult friends either feel rather loyal to her, or maybe she just never had that many friends.

I think they’ll both discover that making friends as adults/parents is harder and their friends will naturally start trending towards the parents of their children’s friends.

The only person in Harry’s world who seems to have difficulty keeping his mouth shut is Harry himself.

Meghan, on the other hand, seems to come from a family of blabbermouths, even if she doesn’t have dirt-dishing friends.  (Her sister’s dislike of her is one thing, but her father’s behavior baffles me.  In what alternate universe does it happen that going to the press to criticize her is a way to get closer to your daughter—especially as the first disagreement with your daughter happened because you collaborated with the press?) 

We can’t know how Meghan and Harry’s new friends will be in terms of loyalty, but Hollywood culture tends to have “porous” boundaries. So keeping secrets may be harder, and making “real” friends may take longer.  

[just_ordinary]

11 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

The only person in Harry’s world who seems to have difficulty keeping his mouth shut is Harry himself.

Meghan, on the other hand, seems to come from a family of blabbermouths, even if she doesn’t have dirt-dishing friends.  (Her sister’s dislike of her is one thing, but her father’s behavior baffles me.  In what alternate universe does it happen that going to the press to criticize her is a way to get closer to your daughter—especially as the first disagreement with your daughter happened because you collaborated with the press?) 

We can’t know how Meghan and Harry’s new friends will be in terms of loyalty, but Hollywood culture tends to have “porous” boundaries. So keeping secrets may be harder, and making “real” friends may take longer.  

So much this. 
Additionally, it is well known that snitches are cut out of their friends circles. Sadly, it seems  that not all of H&Ms friends have the same mindset. I think the woman (Rhonda/Shonda or Gayle?) talking second hand about the unproductive telephone call between the brothers made the situation much much worse. Obviously H should talk to his confidants about whatever he wants, but they should keep their mouth shut and let him and the other party decide if they want to mention it. It was so not her place.

On another note: I just love how M with her lovely Hermes blanket makes other spend 40 Minutes of time to support. Not that I think the idea is bad per se. But will she join? Who will actually benefit? I mean who can really benefit from 40 minutes with Eugenie? If you want more than some empowering phrases that is. Who could actually be on their horizon to get picked? But I will be happy to wait till we see the results. Maybe people get creative und come up with impactful action.

Edited August 9, 2021 by just_ordinary

[tabitha2]

Eugenie appears to be the only relation of his they have that they have any kind of existing close relationship with anymore or rather they haven’t  burnt her or thrown her under the bus yet and She even wants to help in Meghans endeavors 
 

E seems like a really sweet person and I very seriously hope they don’t sabotage themselves yet again. 

[WiseGirl]

Oh boy. Another Markle sibling wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Talk about people unable to keep their mouths shut.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/meghan-markles-brother-calls-her-shallow-in-big-brother-vip/

From the article "Sibling drama. Meghan Markle’s older half-brother, Thomas Markle Jr., has joined the cast of Australia’s Big Brother VIP and appeared to slam his regal sister in the first trailer."

[DalmatianCat]

4 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

So much this. 
Additionally, it is well known that snitches are cut out of their friends circles. Sadly, it seems  that not all of H&Ms friends have the same mindset. I think the woman (Rhonda/Shonda or Gayle?) talking second hand about the unproductive telephone call between the brothers made the situation much much worse. Obviously H should talk to his confidants about whatever he wants, but they should keep their mouth shut and let him and the other party decide if they want to mention it. It was so not her place.

 

I know there’s some thought that Harry intentionally let the phone call leak, but I wonder if Harry was just so used to his loyal friend group and protected so well from casual conversations with journalists, that he was unable to distinguish between an off-the-record (in his mind) conversation with a journalist that he considered a “friend” who was—in reality—just a smart journalist who was trying to get a story and was suprised and gratified that Harry was so willing to talk.

There haven’t been as many private family leaks since then, so maybe he’s realized that just because Meghan (or whoever) is telling him, “Oprah, Gayle, etc, is really friendly, we can talk with with them” that doesn’t mean they’re *actual* friends.

Tight-knit, loyal friends are hard to come by…I don’t think that’s all settled in for Harry yet. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by DalmatianCat
Spelling

[louisa05]

3 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Oh boy. Another Markle sibling wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Talk about people unable to keep their mouths shut.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/meghan-markles-brother-calls-her-shallow-in-big-brother-vip/

From the article "Sibling drama. Meghan Markle’s older half-brother, Thomas Markle Jr., has joined the cast of Australia’s Big Brother VIP and appeared to slam his regal sister in the first trailer."

I feel like it’s hard to say that someone who makes a 40th bday video of herself that prominently displays a $2000 blanket while wearing Manolo Blahnik shoes and a $375  tank  top isn’t a little bit shallow. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by louisa05

[tabitha2]

The Cliques  whom Royals choose to hang with with are normally very discrete as well as intimate and go back years  and it’s that way for obvious reasons. As well as the same class and economic level It’s easier and safer to club and act stupid with people who saw you wet the bed in the same room at boarding  prep school when you were 10 or act like an idiot at your first hangover. 
 

 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I know there’s some thought that Harry intentionally let the phone call leak, but I wonder if Harry was just so used to his loyal friend group and protected so well from casual conversations with journalists, that he was unable to distinguish between an off-the-record (in his mind) conversation with a journalist that he considered a “friend” who was—in reality—just a smart journalist who was trying to get a story and was suprised and gratified that Harry was so willing to talk.

There haven’t been as many private family leaks since then, so maybe he’s realized that just because Meghan (or whoever) is telling him, “Oprah, Gayle, etc, is really friendly, we can talk with with them” that doesn’t mean they’re *actual* friends.

Tight-knit, loyal friends are hard to come by…I don’t think that’s all settled in for Harry yet. 

I don’t think Harry told Gayle.  I think Harry told Meghan, who told Gayle.  I suspect Harry is still telling Meghan everything, and the Royals seem to think so too, if reports about how the family doesn’t trust Harry are accurate.

It is hard to know if Harry knew that Gayle would report on the phone call, and I am not certain that he didn’t “approve” the leak.  It may have been Meghan’s idea, but it appears to me that they thought the Oprah interview would “clear the air” and open dialogue of some sort with the royals. If so, the conversation with William, which probably took the form of William being very angry instead of sympathetic, was disappointingly unproductive. And in the same misguided spirit of “reaching out,” they told Gayle that she could say that the contact had so far been “unproductive.”

All this seems a very “Markle” way of communicating with estranged family.  Instead of having private conversations with the people you claim to want love and understanding from, you give interviews and make announcements to the press.  (I have already noted how weird I think Papa Markle’s behavior is.  The Sussexes are more sophisticated, but equally weird.)