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Meghan and Harry 7: Recollections May Vary


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Yeah, I think Harry was always destined to struggle, for multiple reasons. He was raised with the knowledge that he was the spare. Did his parents love him? Absolutely, but there was still SO much media focus on the whole “heir and the spare” headline that I’m sure it fucked with him. “Spares” often in royal families struggle to find their footing and Harry is no different. He has clearly never gotten over the loss of his mother, which is fair, but I think it has led to paranoia and anxiety over the women in his life and he tries to guard them fiercely, often to their detriment. He’s had a string of scandals because he seems very impulsive and acts mindlessly, trusting that the institution in which he was born into will be walking two steps behind him, sweeping up the mess. 

I think Harry was always destined to want out of the royal family. He spoke of it countless times before Meghan was ever on the scene. However, unlike Chelsey and Cressida, Meghan was the only one willing to jump into the pan long enough to tell Harry that he didn’t have to stay burning inside. Before Meghan, I don’t think Harry realized stepping back as a senior royal was even possible. 

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1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

….

As much as I find her exhausting, I think Harry would have melted down into this mess with or without Meghan. She may have helped it lead to his moving to another continent, but the general "woe is me" meltdown was going to happen regardless. 

I agree.  The whole thing might have happened differently, but something would have happened.  I think a lot of it comes from being competitive with William.   We know that he was always “the spare” in dynastic terms.  His father would have preferred a girl. I have read that Diana always envisioned Harry as William’s support and “wingman.”  Diana clearly turned to William more for support than Harry.  Though this was probably hard on William, Harry may have seen himself as “second,” even in his beloved mother’s view.

His grievance against a world that took his mother away probably made this sense of not being valued enough, not being important in his own right, stronger.  He may (like many young people whose parents die) feel responsible in a weird way for not “protecting” his mother. He wasn’t strong/important enough to keep her from dying. (Why did she need to be out with boyfriends when she could have just been waiting for her kids to come home from visiting their father? Why weren’t he and William enough?)  Many children feel deserted by the parent who dies, even though intellectually they know better (and then they feel guilty for that).

Connected to this, he may blame his father.  Charles should have protected Diana instead of using her and casting her aside (as Harry saw it).   Blaming Charles is a way of displacing his own guilt and feelings of insufficiency. 

There are reports that Harry was paranoid about media attention (imagining he was being watched when he wasn’t) and also reports now that he was worried about becoming “irrelevant” — no longer sharing the center of attention with his brother as his brother’s family became more the focus of the media.

The situation was perfect for him to fall for a slightly more mature and definitely more intelligent woman who made him feel important, who helped him get attention in his own right (not just as William’s wingman), who suggested ways to become and stay “relevant” and who could be “protected” as he had not been able to protect his mother.  I believe that (consciously or unconsciously) Meghan plays on these feelings.   She isn’t any more “to blame” than he is because they meet each others’ needs.

With no Meghan, there would have been something or someone else.  Maybe when he worried about becoming like Andrew he worried also about not getting the respect of others. ??‍♀️   He may have always felt that to battle his fear of irrelevance he might do something shocking.   

It’s clearly not as simple as “Meghan led him away.” His interest in Meghan may have been the result of his feelings of anger and alienation and his hunger to be different and special.  Maybe she has even kept him from going in a worse direction. (Trying to start his own country, perhaps? ?)

(Sorry, this is long, even for me.  If you finished reading it, thanks for your patience.)

Edited by EmCatlyn
Typos and weird spaces.
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I think it’s pretty obvious Harry is not a happy and certainly not at peace  person inside so no matter what he does or where he goes there will always be problems, drama and complaints As the saying goes:Wherever you go There you are.  

 

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On 7/26/2021 at 6:51 PM, sableduck said:

I’m still trying to figure out how “writing a memoir and then another memoir and two more books” is part of “we want and deserve all the privacy in the world.”

Well, there is a difference between privacy and not being in the spotlight at all. Many people that are working in a spotlight/audience field would rather have their (good) work showcased instead of their private life. I mean, everyone wants their boss to notice their actual work and not if they leave the club every weekend with someone else. Many celebrities find a balance, because the public feeds on gossip and no one is interested in one-dimensional do-gooders. The ugly truth is- negative gossip gives more stories and creates more interest and engagement- because you can only have so many weddings and babies. So, I generally support the wish BUT that means you need to filter because everything you put out there can be used against you. They didn’t. And now they created a monster and cannot control it.

On 7/26/2021 at 10:23 PM, viii said:

I was hoping she spoke out of turn but I think H&M would have made a statement by now if that was true, which means they gave her permission to talk. It’s no wonder that conversations between them and the family are at a stand still. 

They’re also re-releasing Finding Freedom with a new updates epilogue. ?

What is it with releasing updates? If I had bought the paperback I would be seriously pissed and feeling ripped off. I think Lacey did it too. Write a book. And then, if you have enough material, write a second one if you must.

On 7/27/2021 at 6:21 AM, EmCatlyn said:

According to Cosmopolitan, which got it from The Times, a friend of Harry’s claims that, 

It’s an interesting idea.  I wonder if he sees himself and William as having supplanted or pushed Andrew out of “relevance” when they became old enough to get attention.  I wonder if he got this idea from either Andrew himself (presumably before the scandals) or from others among the royals.

It is also interesting that the fear of losing “relevance” may be connected to Charles’s plans to prune down the monarchy.  Granted that Charles wanted him to remain a Working Royal, but did Harry fear that William would not?

Why Andrew? He may have been grown up to be the official spare - but Anne was in the same position for 10 years. After W&H were born, Andrew was already insignificant at age 22. H could look at Anne or Edward to get inspiration. They don’t play first row but they seem to do fine in their projects. He had Invictus and Sentebale under his belt. And what is it now, he didn’t like being a royal, was trapped and dreamed of leaving OR wanted to accomplish stuff through is profile and serve the Crown with his wife???? How can someone be so random. Does he have a backbone? I hate it when people change their mind all the time and cannot explain why (especially when it goes back and forth a lot).

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Because Andrew was considered the handsome dashing fun loving military man back in the day and He was the father of the his only two close in age royal cousins. I’ve  seen a clip with Andrew teasing and goofing with Peter Phillips so he probably would have been rough and tumble with the two boys the way Charles may not have been.  Brusque Anne inspires respect not fun times and Sensitive Edward was probably just not cool in their eyes. 

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

Why Andrew? He may have been grown up to be the official spare - but Anne was in the same position for 10 years. After W&H were born, Andrew was already insignificant at age 22. H could look at Anne or Edward got inspiration 


 

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I also wonder how much the speculation about Harry's parentage is playing into this - Charles is his father, there is no doubt of that, but the media speculation would have undoubtedly gotten back to Harry, no matter how much they tried to shield him. If that is another layer adding to his probably subconscious questioning of self worth - well it's understandable, but he needs a therapist to work through it with him, not another book deal or media interview.

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For Harry to really heal would  take looking at himself and his relationships with brutal clarity and honesty, admitting faults and forgiving himself and others for the past. Meghan would have to be a partner in that at the very least if it’s not possible for the Royals. 

Harry is about easy and fun and avoiding things he dose not want to do so yeah. 


 



 

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9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

What is it with releasing updates? If I had bought the paperback I would be seriously pissed and feeling ripped off. I think Lacey did it too. Write a book. And then, if you have enough material, write a second one if you must.

It is connected to the way print runs are small so there will be little surplus. If you are going to reprint anyway, may as well add new material to make it more competitive with newer books.  The publishers, not the authors are generally behind this. (Textbooks get “new editions” every couple of years for this reason.)

BTW —The earlier version of the Lacey book is available as pdf online for free.  
 

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9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Why Andrew? He may have been grown up to be the official spare - but Anne was in the same position for 10 years. After W&H were born, Andrew was already insignificant at age 22. H could look at Anne or Edward to get inspiration. They don’t play first row but they seem to do fine in their projects. He had Invictus and Sentebale under his belt. And what is it now, he didn’t like being a royal, was trapped and dreamed of leaving OR wanted to accomplish stuff through is profile and serve the Crown with his wife???? How can someone be so random. Does he have a backbone? I hate it when people change their mind all the time and cannot explain why (especially when it goes back and forth a lot).

Anne was a girl and may not have been given the same weight as a “spare.”  But I think Harry may have heard stories from Andrew about how he used to be important to the public until William and Harry began to get attention.  Could be the fact that Andrew was in the military also made him identify. ??‍♀️

It is pretty weird to me, actually, but I know very little about Andrew except he gets into scandals and didn’t repudiate Epstein when he should have. ?

I think what it comes down to is Harry is a troubled guy who always felt competitive with his brother (younger siblings do) and didn’t know how to handle these feelings (or any others). He focused his competitiveness on doing things that would get him more attention than William got.  

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7 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I also wonder how much the speculation about Harry's parentage is playing into this - Charles is his father, there is no doubt of that, but the media speculation would have undoubtedly gotten back to Harry, no matter how much they tried to shield him. If that is another layer adding to his probably subconscious questioning of self worth - well it's understandable, but he needs a therapist to work through it with him, not another book deal or media interview.

That’s one reason I find the conspiracy theories that Meghan didn’t carry Archie, that he’s not their child, that it was a doll all along and the new one—that Lili is adopted or doesn’t actually exist so abhorrent. Harry seems to be obsessed with reading about himself in media and online. I have no doubt that rumor has long been know to him and has hurt him. Unsubstantiated nonsense about parentage doesn’t need to be invented to do the same thing to his children. 

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Then again the same rags said Diana was killed by a Bosnian hit man and Kate was going to be one to uncover the TRUTH! 
 

Its  salacious trash and celebrities and Royals ignore it as a rule.  That Harry would be so perturbed is a symptom of his issues. 

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3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Anne was a girl and may not have been given the same weight as a “spare.”  But I think Harry may have heard stories from Andrew about how he used to be important to the public until William and Harry began to get attention.  Could be the fact that Andrew was in the military also made him identify. ??‍♀️

 

Given how young the Queen was when she ascended to the throne, I'm sure there was a large expectation that she would have more children, sooner or later.

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37 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

Given how young the Queen was when she ascended to the throne, I'm sure there was a large expectation that she would have more children, sooner or later.

That assumption was made about her parents and it never happened. I’ve never seen anything that indicated the public thought or expected that she would.  Particularly as time passed. Anne (born Aug 1950) is 9.5 years older than Andrew (Feb 1960).  I think the reality is that Anne doesn’t have a needy, attention seeking personality and has her parents’ sense of duty above all else. 
As for the supposed “close” relationship between Harry and Eugenie/Bea—there’s not a whole lot of evidence of that. And given that there’s always appeared to be distance between Charles and Andrew and Diana want speaking to Sarah for a few years before her death, I doubt the boys were around the York family much growing up other than major events and holidays. 

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Maybe but given they were the closest cousins in age and the only senior titled children of their generation in fact I think they would have had a certain bond. 
 

As I have always understood By the time She had Andrew and Edward she was much more secure, confident  both as mother and as a Queen so they got more of her than the eldest did. 


 

 

 

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13 hours ago, louisa05 said:

As for the supposed “close” relationship between Harry and Eugenie/Bea—there’s not a whole lot of evidence of that. And given that there’s always appeared to be distance between Charles and Andrew and Diana want speaking to Sarah for a few years before her death, I doubt the boys were around the York family much growing up other than major events and holidays. 

I’ve always thought the comments that Harry was “close” to the York cousins were odd. Yes, close in age, but at the time his mother died the girls were 7 and 8? When he talks about wanting to get back to playing with his cousins at Balmoral on his last phone call with his mother I imagine that he was probably in a rush to get back to whatever the older, cooler Peter and Zara were doing (or some second or third cousins who were actually his age), not a 7 and 8 year-old. That age difference would seem huge to a 12 year-old boy. I can see them growing closer as adults when the age gap doesn’t seem as big, combined with so much shared history and the ability to have a relationship on their own terms, not their parents.

Edited by DalmatianCat
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12 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I’ve always thought the comments that Harry was “close” to the York cousins were odd. Yes, close in age, but at the time his mother died the girls were 7 and 8? When he talks about wanting to get back to playing with his cousins at Balmoral on his last phone call with his mother I imagine that he was probably in a rush to get back to whatever the older, cooler Peter and Zara were doing (or some second or third cousins who were actually his age), not a 7 and 8 year-old. That age difference would seem huge to a 12 year-old boy. I can see them growing closer as adults when the age gap doesn’t seem as big, combined with so much shared history and the ability to have a relationship on their own terms, not their parents.

I agree that Harry’s friendship with his cousins probably developed after they were adults. I think quite a bit of it has to do with the women in Harry’s life being friends with the York sisters, though I didn’t keep track of exactly who was friends with whom.

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On 7/25/2021 at 1:38 PM, EmCatlyn said:

Meghan’s book on wellness

That will be some yoga and a lot of woo twaddle. 

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Quote

Royal expert Tom Quinn noted in the recent documentary Meghan at 40: The Climb to Power that Meghan and Harry have a dynamic similar to that of Edward and Wallis.

“Mrs Simpson was a strong, dominant woman who gave Edward VIII everything his mother hadn’t given him, he was vulnerable just as Harry is vulnerable,” Quinn said, according to Express. “If a man who is not very decisive meets a very decisive woman or the other way around they often get on very well because one makes the decisions and the other one goes along with it.”

Quinn added, ”Meghan and Harry work because Harry is quite a vulnerable person who only lived in this gilded cage, he’s not very worldly. Meghan makes things happen, Meghan makes the decisions.”

(Source: Showbiz CheatSheet)

I haven’t seen the documentary, but I think the assessment is probably spot-on.  The sad thing is that Harry and Meghan could have kept a non-confrontational relation with the royals and simply stepped aside if they were unhappy with royal restrictions.  They weren’t pushed out, as Edward and Wallis were. (I have always suspected that Wallis did not want Edward to abdicate and would have not married him at this point if it hadn’t been that it would make her look bad. But that’s another subject.)

 

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Wallis did try to step away, break up a couple of times for the good  of ,well, Everybody.She knew it was no win situation for her and his family would never allow it But he turned on the manipulative emotional black mail .His obsession and need for her was total. 

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1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Wallis did try to step away, break up a couple of times for the good  of ,well, Everybody.She knew it was no win situation for her and his family would never allow it But he turned on the manipulative emotional black mail .His obsession and need for her was total. 

At least in this case both Harry and Meghan seem happy with each other.  

I think Wallis would not have minded being a “morganatic” wife if necessary, or even remaining a (quietly acknowledged) mistress, but the option of marrying an irrelevant and largely insolvent royal was not her preference.  Once he went and abdicated, however, she felt stuck.  (I may be wrong.  It’s just an impression from random things I have read over the years.  I am not really a royal follower.  I just like stories.)

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She could have remained his mistress. It would have been an open secret and it was(is?) pretty much the norm these circles.His Quest to make Queen was deluded and impossible though. 

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1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

She could have remained his mistress. It would have been an open secret and it was(is?) pretty much the norm these circles.His Quest to make Queen was deluded and impossible though. 

I think initially she may have like the idea of being queen.  Probably at first, when he first suggested it, she thought he could marry her. However, I suspect she was not at all interested in having him give up the crown “for her.”

The thing is, the Cabinet generally didn’t trust her (aside from her marital past) and were not too crazy about how Edward was handling his responsibilities, so they used his desire to marry her as a way to remove him.

 Here is the biggest difference from the Sussexes’ situation.  The other royals and parliament and even the public  wanted Harry and Meghan as working royals.  They just wanted them to play a supportive rather than a central role.

Also, unlike the Wallis and Edward affair, which was completely kept out of the British press, everything that Meghan and Harry did was exposed and dissected.  Thus Meghan probably decided that leaving Great Britain was best.  So the couples’ dynamic may be similar,  but the way their stories have played out are very different.

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I mean her getting Roses from Nazis and Their socializing with Top German officials did not do any favors. Even though a large of amount of the British Aristocracy agreed with Nazi ideology A King and potentially Queen Consort doing so was unacceptable Another reason to want her Gone. 

Edited by tabitha2
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In truth, though the Queen sees it differently because of her father's ill health, Edward's abdication saved the monarchy.

If Edward had remained King, with his pro-Nazi feelings and pro-Nazi mistress, the monarchy would not have survived WWII.  (I know, speculation, but I stand by it.)

(I don't really see Meghan as a Wallis- Meghan had a very specific agenda from early on, while I think Wallis just enjoyed having an affair with a royal at first.  I really do think Meghan and Harry could have stepped back without hurting William, Kate and Charles.)

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I find it interesting when people say it’s clear Meghan had an agenda. I genuinely believe she tried at first but between the racist attacks and Harry’s paranoia, it was easier to leave. 

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