[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

In a culture that believes that the sins of parents are visited upon their children, I wonder whether the situation with Josh will affect future opportunities (e.g., marriages) for the M kids.

I’m assuming there’s a good chance most of the M kids may say “f this” as soon as they turn 18 and high tail it out of there. They’re living a very different life than their fundy cousins and might end up disillusioned with fundamentalism or religion as a whole. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

I’m assuming there’s a good chance most of the M kids may say “f this” as soon as they turn 18 and high tail it out of there. They’re living a very different life than their fundy cousins and might end up disillusioned with fundamentalism or religion as a whole. 

I dunno. I think they will barely be allowed to leave the compound (except for visits to their equally crazy maternal family), and may feel that their grandparents largely raised them. Michael could be a father in a little over a decade, and if JB&M stay in the big house for a while, he could even end up inheriting it.

[gustava]

15 hours ago, viii said:

I can't imagine that he's going to remain celibate until he goes to prison. 

Mr Right meet Mr. Left.

[Four is Enough]

Problem is, I don't see the M kids seeing and understanding that their "religious beliefs" are the very largest part of their predicament. They're going to be doubled down on the prayer and the legalism for quite some time and  they're never going to come to the conclusion that this is all tomfoolery and balderdash.

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Problem is, I don't see the M kids seeing and understanding that their "religious beliefs" are the very largest part of their predicament. They're going to be doubled down on the prayer and the legalism for quite some time and  they're never going to come to the conclusion that this is all tomfoolery and balderdash.

I think they might figure it out.  I'm sure they're getting a lot of support now but how will life be if daddy goes away for many years?  Can and would Anna go out with them alone?  If not, they'll be dependent on relatives (and maybe friends) who have nothing better to do than accompany them.  They can stay home most of the time but what about doctor visits, trips to see the Kellers, shopping for clothes, birthday get-togethers, and going to the park?  If their parents truly believe that Jesus is the answer then why was/is daddy in jail?  Why is mama so stressed?  Why aren't they going out and doing things like their cousins?  What are they getting out of doubling down?  And if one M kid figures out the BS, I believe the rest will likely be soon to follow.

[viii]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

And if one M kid figures out the BS, I believe the rest will likely be soon to follow.

It would have to be Michael because the minute Mackenzie expresses a drop of doubt they’ll marry her off. 

[Cults-r-us]

12 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Problem is, I don't see the M kids seeing and understanding that their "religious beliefs" are the very largest part of their predicament. They're going to be doubled down on the prayer and the legalism for quite some time and  they're never going to come to the conclusion that this is all tomfoolery and balderdash.

I dunno. Which fundie's own parents helped a daughter escape the family cult - Lisa Pennington maybe. Erica Shupe's daughter rebelled. The thing about Quiverful is it's not mutigenerational like FLDS. So the kids can see grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles living a different lifestyle. They Quiverful children can see their pagan relatives are doing fine. Envisioning an escape is more doable with something concrete to look at.

[BadMurphy]

On 6/18/2021 at 5:01 PM, Dandruff said:

In a culture that believes that the sins of parents are visited upon their children, I wonder whether the situation with Josh will affect future opportunities (e.g., marriages) for the M kids.

I’ve heard about this-it’s their excuse for not adopting. But I think that’s all it is-an excuse. These people are as hypocritical as they come-so this doesn’t apply to them/the M kids. 

[Dandruff]

53 minutes ago, BadMurphy said:

I’ve heard about this-it’s their excuse for not adopting. But I think that’s all it is-an excuse. These people are as hypocritical as they come-so this doesn’t apply to them/the M kids. 

I hope it doesn't apply to the M kids.  They have enough to deal with.  Still, I can imagine fundie parents and their children (of marriageable age) seriously wondering whether they'd want Josh as an in-law.

[BadMurphy]

5 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I hope it doesn't apply to the M kids.  They have enough to deal with.  Still, I can imagine fundie parents and their children (of marriageable age) seriously wondering whether they'd want Josh as an in-law.

Oh for sure, even if Michael or Marcus are the sweetest boys out there— I wouldn’t want my daughter to have him as a FIL. Nooooo way. Every potential in-law would have to consider-do you want that guy to have access to your future grandchildren?!! ?

[imokit]

If Josh gets convicted, is likely to go on a sex offender registry once he's released from prison and always have restrictions on access to children?

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, BadMurphy said:

Oh for sure, even if Michael or Marcus are the sweetest boys out there— I wouldn’t want my daughter to have him as a FIL. Nooooo way. Every potential in-law would have to consider-do you want that guy to have access to your future grandchildren?!! ?

Those poor M kids. Littlest isn’t even born yet and her future prospects are at least partially tarnished by her Dad. 

[BadMurphy]

6 hours ago, imokit said:

If Josh gets convicted, is likely to go on a sex offender registry once he's released from prison and always have restrictions on access to children?

Yeah, and hopefully he’ll be in prison for a long time.

but now that’s got me thinking about Anna, knowing what she has turned her head from I don’t think I’d trust her around my future grandkids either. 

[nokidsmom]

29 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Those poor M kids. Littlest isn’t even born yet and her future prospects are at least partially tarnished by her Dad. 

Yeah, I have thought of the littlest who will be possibly be born with her Dad in jail.   And this is much more serious, this is not Dad being in Jesus Jail when Anna had a baby.

As far as any of M kids waking up to the clusterf**k they were born into and are living in, it's always possible.   Now, I don't know how likely it would be, but it's possible.   I mean, who expected Jill to be where she is now.   And she toed the line, has obviously rejected a lot of it.  She was close to her Dad.   That same dad that she legally pursued with an attorney to get what was rightfully hers.   But years ago no one expected she would do that.   So, to me, she's an example of it always being possible. 

 

[Jasmar]

The sins of the father thing is part of gothardism, which of course we know they follow, but as far as I know, it’s been primarily (exclusively? @formergothardite) focused on why you shouldn’t adopt. It’s interesting, and very sad, to think how that teaching could affect the Ms. I hope it doesn’t.

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, Jasmar said:

The sins of the father thing is part of gothardism, which of course we know they follow, but as far as I know, it’s been primarily (exclusively? @formergothardite) focused on why you shouldn’t adopt. It’s interesting, and very sad, to think how that teaching could affect the Ms. I hope it doesn’t.

If they're willing to discriminate against babies then anything's possible.

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, Jasmar said:

The sins of the father thing is part of gothardism, which of course we know they follow, but as far as I know, it’s been primarily (exclusively? @formergothardite) focused on why you shouldn’t adopt. It’s interesting, and very sad, to think how that teaching could affect the Ms. I hope it doesn’t.

Here are the official “sins of the father teachings”. Technically it is that you aren’t responsible for your parents sins just more likely to sin in the exact same way. 
 

https://iblp.org/questions/how-do-sins-my-forefathers-affect-my-life

https://iblp.org/questions/can-my-moral-failures-cause-problems-my-childs-life

 

[Tatar-tot]

I was thinking of Josh and the Willis father. Both sickos but different behavior.  Both enabled by their wives:  consciously or unconsciously.  What is it with these far right wing religions and attracting and developing these perverts?  I just don’t get it.

[Mama Mia]

3 hours ago, Jasmar said:

The sins of the father thing is part of gothardism, which of course we know they follow, but as far as I know, it’s been primarily (exclusively? @formergothardite) focused on why you shouldn’t adopt. It’s interesting, and very sad, to think how that teaching could affect the Ms. I hope it doesn’t.

Oh, I wasn’t even thinking of that aspect! Just the general awfulness of whenever a future friend/date/employer hears your name, or googles you, they’ll know your dad is THAT creep. And it’s highly unlikely he’ll still be in prison when the M’s reach adulthood , so it’s not even like an infamous murderer who is still a blight on you, but is safely locked away. There will always be a weird - “wellllll…….so is your Dad around?is he going to be visiting? And then a pause. “ and people will be wondering what did or didn’t happen to the kids. Just a big initial negative cloud. 

[JenniferJuniper]

14 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

I was thinking of Josh and the Willis father. Both sickos but different behavior.  Both enabled by their wives:  consciously or unconsciously.  What is it with these far right wing religions and attracting and developing these perverts?  I just don’t get it.

Well, we really don't know the full extent of Josh's behavior; hopefully it's no worse than what we already now.  But men in patriarchal societies/environments seem to often get away with the abuse of women and girls. I think Josh's former friend Justin explained it best in his YouTube series.  When Josh returned from his first punishment after molesting the girls, he was hailed as a Satan conqueror by the men in the church. Yes, he sinned, but he'd repented and fought back the demon and this won him a great deal of respect.  And while Josh regained his golden boy status, no one gave a thought to his victims.  Because female lives really don't matter to them.  Which is probably why Josh was never too worried about getting caught or seriously punished/held accountable. 

Sin, repent, rinse, repeat. 

[Antimony]

15 hours ago, imokit said:

If Josh gets convicted, is likely to go on a sex offender registry once he's released from prison and always have restrictions on access to children?

If convicted, he'll 100% end up on a registry system, though it's worth noting that there is scant, if any, evidence that sex offender registries protect children in anyway. Because states established registries at different times, you can compare the data and they just don't work. I suspect if offenders rural enough the way the Duggars are, the biggest part of the registry (the whole, you can't live within 1000 feet of a school or daycare, etc), might be kind of meaningless, anyway. 

[feministxtian]

how long do you think it'd take for him to get busted downloading CSA again? The odds of learning his lesson seem mighty slim. 

[Mama Mia]

31 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

how long do you think it'd take for him to get busted downloading CSA again? The odds of learning his lesson seem mighty slim. 

Unless they have some sort of serious, specific, incredibly effective treatment, probably combined with medication - I don’t see him stopping He might wait awhile, he might switch up HOW he’s acting out, but he will do something that crashes everything down around him, and it will almost certainly involve something sexual. 
 

We talk about how he got no consequences from his previous actions - but really he did. When he was a teen he was humiliated in front of everyone he knew, he probably had the sh*t beat out of him repeatedly, he had to do a ton of manual labor (probably to levels that would be illegal in most US prison systems) AND many years later his behavior was brought to light, he lost his job, his whole entire family at least temporarily lost their show. His family name was dragged through the mud and STILL he decided to cheat on his wife in a fairly public way. If he hadn’t had the previous molestation that brought everything down, that wouldn’t be that huge a deal—- but he knew what was hanging over his head and did it anyway.
Then years later, when things have finally died down —- he escalates to this. He may likely have been  doing this for a long time before being caught. He would have to know, fundamentalist beliefs aside, that getting caught would lead to very, very bad things for himself and his family. He obviously has a compulsion and even wreckage to his own life isn’t enough to stop it.

[feministxtian]

2 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Then years later, when things have finally died down —- he escalates to this. He may likely have been  doing this for a long time before being caught. He would have to know, fundamentalist beliefs aside, that getting caught would lead to very, very bad things for himself and his family. He obviously has a compulsion and even wreckage to his own life isn’t enough to stop it.

I think he's a sick and twisted human being. He'd be that way as a fundie or a secular person. I also think he's deeply unhappy with his life, knowing that his parents made damn good and sure he'd have a shitty education that would keep him tied to the family in some way for the rest of his life. The only time he'd be able to stay out of trouble would be when he's either in real jail or Jesus jail. I'm sure he's done these things before, he just didn't get caught. (the CSA stuff). 

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Oh, I wasn’t even thinking of that aspect! Just the general awfulness of whenever a future friend/date/employer hears your name, or googles you, they’ll know your dad is THAT creep. And it’s highly unlikely he’ll still be in prison when the M’s reach adulthood , so it’s not even like an infamous murderer who is still a blight on you, but is safely locked away. There will always be a weird - “wellllll…….so is your Dad around?is he going to be visiting? And then a pause. “ and people will be wondering what did or didn’t happen to the kids. Just a big initial negative cloud. 

If I were a Duggar kid and broke away from my family, I would probably change my last name.  If I were one of Josh Duggar’s kids, I would definitely change my last name.  (The last I heard about the Turpin family, some of the Turpins have changed their last names.)

The problem for these kids is if they don’t break away from the family or its teachings.  Then they will remain within a community that knows all the scandal and while ostentatiously forgiving Josh with great Christian compassion will nevertheless look askance at his family.