[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@AussieKrissy,  Your little Dixie is completely adorable!  Nor only does she have a dachsie/doxie face, but she has got those dachsie feet, just made for digging.  My dachsie, Trinket, is satisfied with digging in her blankie.  Trinket is a tweenie -not a mini and not a standard.  

Oh trinket that is a lovely name. I love dashie feet there is something so dinosaur about them. Like furry crocodile little old man dog feet.  
Oh and Buff she would make a great avatar but I would switch between her and my meat teddy cause I would miss it. Lol 

[Cults-r-us]

22 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

@Not that Josh's Mom, I plan to keep wearing a mask when in public.  I think it will help reduce the number and severity of colds.  It's also a great sunblock for much of my face.  And hides resting bitch face.

And hides active bitch face.

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

JB will do whatever he thinks will protect the family brand. Josh, though, might fuck over his dear old dad by refusing to take a plea deal leaving JB to either keep paying for lawyers or having to declare to the world his son is guilty and he won’t pay for lawyers. If Josh takes a plea deal JB can still spin this as he being innocent and Josh is just doing what he can to get  home to his kids the fastest. 
 

Josh seems angry and resentful. I can see JB threatening to stop paying for lawyers and Josh daring him to do so. There is no spinning this as Josh being innocent if JB leaves Josh to find his own lawyers. 

Interesting idea. Yes, he is angry and resentful, but he also has a history of doing things secretly, not openly.  Would he openly defy JB?    I think it is very likely that he will do what he is told.

[Cults-r-us]

6 hours ago, Themanda Duggar said:

Does anyone else think Michelle wonders if she miscarried the wrong baby all those years ago?

Does anyone else remember reading there was conflict between JB and the Meech during the dark days of Josh's previous scandal? Wherein M. was maximally disgusted but JB was on team Josh.

[Jackie3]

On 6/7/2021 at 9:52 AM, viii said:

I will be shocked if he pleads guilty.

Almost certainly, he will plead guilty. These are federal charges, the feds always have locked-tight cases. I doubt Josh wants his crimes aired in public. Does he want the public to know exactly what he was looking at? Does he want 20 years instead of 8? He'll plead. 

[ADoyle90815]

I think chances are good that he'll plead guilty because the feds have a much higher conviction rate than state courts do, and those who are sentenced on federal charges tend to serve more time as there really isn't getting time off for good behavior as with the states.

[Dandruff]

If he does go to prison, I wonder which one it'll be and who might visit him.

[Nike]

1 hour ago, Dandruff said:

If he does go to prison, I wonder which one it'll be and who might visit him.

If conjugal visits are allowed Anna will be there once #7 turns 1. Got to keep the output at the same rate.

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

Does anyone else remember reading there was conflict between JB and the Meech during the dark days of Josh's previous scandal? Wherein M. was maximally disgusted but JB was on team Josh.

I remember reading it and our discussing it here.  I was never sure it was true.  There were a lot of reports that weren’t. (Remember the different versions of where Anna was?  With her parents — no, she was living near Josh’s Jesus Jail— no she was with her sister in Texas — no, she and her mother had been seen … etc.)

It is impossible to guess how Michelle feels about Josh, but if she is like most mothers, I suspect she has alternated between shock, denial, disappointment, shame, anger, and grief. 

I don’t like the woman, and she is certainly responsible for many of Josh’s problems and much more.  But I still feel sorry for anyone that has to face the reality that their son (or brother, or husband, or father) is the kind of sick pervert Josh is.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

9 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

On 6/7/2021 at 8:08 PM, EmmieJ said:

@Not that Josh's Mom, I plan to keep wearing a mask when in public.  I think it will help reduce the number and severity of colds.  It's also a great sunblock for much of my face.  And hides resting bitch face.

And hides active bitch face.

A mask also muffles quiet swearing. According to my "friend". 

[FiveAcres]

4 hours ago, Nike said:

If conjugal visits are allowed Anna will be there once #7 turns 1. Got to keep the output at the same rate.

https://www.bop.gov/inmates/visiting.jsp

According to this site (Federal Bureau of Prisons) 

Physical Contact
In most cases, handshakes, hugs, and kisses (in good taste) are allowed at the beginning and end of a visit. Staff may limit contact for security reasons (to prevent people from trying to introduce contraband) and to keep the visiting area orderly. The Federal Bureau of Prisons does not permit conjugal visits.

[GiggleOfGirls]

2 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

A mask also muffles quiet swearing. According to my "friend". 

Oh it absolutely does and that’s one of my favorite things about wearing a mask in public! 

[apple1]

7 hours ago, ADoyle90815 said:

I think chances are good that he'll plead guilty because the feds have a much higher conviction rate than state courts do, and those who are sentenced on federal charges tend to serve more time as there really isn't getting time off for good behavior as with the states.

I personally have no thoughts on whether or not he will have a plea agreement.

That said (and as has been mentioned by others) - If not already, he and his advisers need a heavy dose of realism about federal crimes and sentences.

Jack Schaap, formerly of HAC/FBCHammond, is serving a 12 year sentence in federal prison for transporting a 16 year old minor across state lines for the purpose of sexual activity. He was prosecuted by a female federal prosecutor. The federal minimum sentencing guideline was 10 years for his charges; the judge, at her discretion, sentenced him to 12 (maybe 12-1/2) years. Schaap has requested early release multiples times since his incarceration in 2013, and early release has been denied each time. Never mind visiting; his wife divorced him early on. While I absolutely believe that what he was charged and sentenced for was the tip of an iceberg, the charges that were brought against Schaap were IMO, VERY minimal in comparison to Josh's current charges. I cannot for a moment believe that Josh will escape a heavy, well-deserved sentence.

And no, in neither instance, will any sentence make up for the harm already done. But it's a starting point.

[Tangy Bee]

17 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

https://www.bop.gov/inmates/visiting.jsp

According to this site (Federal Bureau of Prisons) 

Physical Contact
In most cases, handshakes, hugs, and kisses (in good taste) are allowed at the beginning and end of a visit. Staff may limit contact for security reasons (to prevent people from trying to introduce contraband) and to keep the visiting area orderly. The Federal Bureau of Prisons does not permit conjugal visits.

Not to gross ya'll out but I recall a little sneaky sex and alot of fingering going on while we were visiting a relative in prison many years ago. Everyone was outside at their own table during visits. There were several couples being very naughty but also very creative at concealing what was happening. At one point my grandma turned around and literally watched a couple because she couldn't believe what was happening! With Covid going on I doubt if anyone is allowed to be that close for a while.

[Four is Enough]

19 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Josh seems angry and resentful. I can see JB threatening to stop paying for lawyers and Josh daring him to do so. There is no spinning this as Josh being innocent if JB leaves Josh to find his own lawyers. 

Oh, my friend. Have you learned nothing from Shawshank Redemption?

"My lawyer screwed me. Everybody's innocent in here; don't you know that?"

Spoiler

 

ETA: this is a true thing.. I have some experience, having had one of mine in and out of juvie, jail, and prison for at least twelve years. He NEVER takes responsibility for his actions. Someone else is ALWAYS at fault; someone else has ALWAYS screwed him. With the right (read expensive) attorney, he can beat the charges.  

He also takes advice from his jail buddies over his attorney, parents, or other non jail-dwellers. One of them always knows someone who knew someone who beat the charges, or got a sentence overturned by doing something (totally ridiculously) simple.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Four is Enough

[JenniferJuniper]

21 hours ago, feministxtian said:

The lawyers JB hired are supposedly the "big guns". If I remember right, one of the lawyers (the one from Missouri) has gotten people off on these charges. They'll go to trial. 

I don't know how big their guns are, but I'm sure they're well-versed in federal cases like this one.  

But keep in mind that you don't necessarily hire an experienced attorney so you can win at trial.  You may be in need of an attorney who knows the Court's ropes well enough to work the best possible deal for you.  I'm sure his attorney has won federal cases similar to this, just as I'd bet he's probably worked far more plea bargains than he has won cases. 

[quiversR4hunting]

11 hours ago, ADoyle90815 said:

I think chances are good that he'll plead guilty because the feds have a much higher conviction rate than state courts do, and those who are sentenced on federal charges tend to serve more time as there really isn't getting time off for good behavior as with the states.

FIFY - To my knowledge *in federal cases, the sentence is exactly how much time they will spend (unless they commit another crime while incarcerated). In all my years in child support, I have never seen someone released early (child support stops for convictions that aren't for non-payment of support). We close cases all the time for the prisoner in for the duration of the child's minority. In contrast, state prisoners we only set the incarceration date to the earliest release date (never the maximum date) because we know anytime after their minimum time served they could be released. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by quiversR4hunting
added "in federal cases"

[Four is Enough]

26 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

But keep in mind that you don't necessarily hire an experienced attorney so you can win at trial.  You may be in need of an attorney who knows the Court's ropes well enough to work the best possible deal for you.  I'm sure his attorney has won federal cases similar to this, just as I'd bet he's probably worked far more plea bargains than he has won cases. 

If you're smart, you understand that you might not get ruled innocent. It just seems that many criminals of all types are under the impression that with the right attorney, they can be exonerated. Not going to happen in most cases. I maintain that no matter what the outcome, Josh will insist he's completely innocent. JB will insist the same, and the word "persecution" will be used.

It really doesn't matter what Josh pleads. He MAY plead in order to get a deal, but I really doubt it. He will be convicted or exonerated by the court.

[Mrs. Kravitz]

31 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I don't know how big their guns are, but I'm sure they're well-versed in federal cases like this one.  

But keep in mind that you don't necessarily hire an experienced attorney so you can win at trial.  You may be in need of an attorney who knows the Court's ropes well enough to work the best possible deal for you.  I'm sure his attorney has won federal cases similar to this, just as I'd bet he's probably worked far more plea bargains than he has won cases. 

I agree. Someone several threads back said that even if you intend to plea guilty eventually, you first want to attack all the evidence, how the warrant was executed, etc, to get as much of it thrown out as possible so that when you do take a plea deal, it'll be the lightest possible. That is probably what the big shot lawyer is for. 

[JenniferJuniper]

4 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

If you're smart, you understand that you might not get ruled innocent. It just seems that many criminals of all types are under the impression that with the right attorney, they can be exonerated. Not going to happen in most cases. I maintain that no matter what the outcome, Josh will insist he's completely innocent. JB will insist the same, and the word "persecution" will be used.

It really doesn't matter what Josh pleads. He MAY plead in order to get a deal, but I really doubt it. He will be convicted or exonerated by the court.

He won't be the first to claim innocence while he's taking a deal.  If his attorneys know he has little chance of exoneration, they'll eventually lay it all out for him (and JB) and he'll take a deal.  But probably not until they've filed every motion they can and billed JB a princely sum for their labors.  While I would agree that many people plead guilty because they don't have the funds to fight to the end, I tend to doubt JB will be a bottomless pit once all the cards are on the table. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

If you're smart, you understand that you might not get ruled innocent. It just seems that many criminals of all types are under the impression that with the right attorney, they can be exonerated. Not going to happen in most cases. I maintain that no matter what the outcome, Josh will insist he's completely innocent. JB will insist the same, and the word "persecution" will be used.

It really doesn't matter what Josh pleads. He MAY plead in order to get a deal, but I really doubt it. He will be convicted or exonerated by the court.

Let me preface this to say I know Josh has no where near the level of fame that OJ had and was certainly not admired by a large portion of the general public prior to their crimes being known.  Even without any crimes no one grew up wanting to be the next Josh Duggar as a generation of football guys did OJ.

But is it a possibility that JB things they have enough cache with the Duggar name in their little corner of the world to get a not guilty just based on a jury predisposed to believe persecution?  I would think he'd know better, but his ego might override common sense.  I'm just asking because here in the Chicago area no way are you getting 12 people on a jury who are fundamentalist leaning, but Idk about AR.  

A question for the legal people, if he did force a trial are his odds better with a jury or just the judge?  And is that the defendant's call or can the court decide?

 

[sixcatatty]

Folks, an improper warrant is NOT a technicality. It is a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Odious as he is, Josh Duggar has a constitutional right to suppression of improperly obtained evidence.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, sixcatatty said:

Folks, an improper warrant is NOT a technicality. It is a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Odious as he is, Josh Duggar has a constitutional right to suppression of improperly obtained evidence.

Technicality means point of law so I'm not sure what the argument is?  I don't think people are minimizing the importance of our laws of evidence by saying they hope Josh doesn't benefit because someone made a procedural mistake.

Fwiw I agree that if things weren't handled legally and according to the law then they should be thrown out as that's the only thing that keeps law enforcement accountable.  None of us are better off if law enforcement officers aren't held to the legal standard, it's the only protection we have against tyranny from the state.  

That said, if people who commit the kind of heinous crimes like this get off because things were improperly handled then of course people will be disgusted.  Believing it's better for 100 guilty men to go free than one innocent man be convicted is one thing in theory, and a lot harder to swallow if those 100 men represent such danger to children.  

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

@HerNameIsBuffy, I tend to summarize the fundies I know as saving "we are being persecuted cries" for cases of not baking cakes for LGBT couples and leading prayers and prostelitizeing in public schools. Charges where they are "proud" to be guilty of what they are accused of. Jim Bob might very well try to push for that as defense. However, I think any decent lawyer would tell Jim Bob even 12 fundies won't buy that in a child porn case. The charges are just to horrifying. 

[Chickenbutt]

I wonder the legalities of the lawyers talking and dealing with JB. Sure he is paying the bills, but even with Josh's permission, is it a violation of his rights, or a conflict of interest?  I once accompanied a friend to her attorneys office for a divorce and the attorney wouldn't let me in the room during the session because she said she might need me to testify. Just curious.