Gwen Shamblin Lara 17: The Hair Apparant

[RFFriend]

On 6/24/2021 at 7:18 AM, RFfamANON said:

I haven’t seen any signs of anything being toned down.   I think leadership has gotten smarter about how they respond to media and more subversive with their controlling of members but the amount of control they have seems unwavering. at least from where I sit that’s what I see  

Re Weddings and food: I have had the opportunity to attend many events at RF.  There is always food …

So! Much! Food!  

Mounds of chicken wings, buckets of side dishes,  casserole upon casserole - everything in abundance! Nothing at all that would indicate that “thin is in”  Its like being on a raft in the middle of the ocean ….water water everywhere but not a drip to drink.  

Yes, the food looked awesome and I was watching to see if people weren't eating.  Seemed like most people were, so that's why I thought maybe some things had eased up.  My friends kids were definitely eating sweets and she lets them eat whatever they want.  I think that is Gwen's teaching after all.  You can eat whatever you want because food all breaks down into glucose or something like that.

I ate and had a good time.  You should have seen the face of one girl when I told her that I had gained 50 pounds over the years and would like to get it off.  A look of horror!  I was thinking that these people would be understanding because I assume most of them were overweight at one time.  But, I guess I had just admitted that I was sinful in their eyes.

[RFfamANON]

50 minutes ago, RFFriend said:

Yes, the food looked awesome and I was watching to see if people weren't eating.  Seemed like most people were, so that's why I thought maybe some things had eased up.  My friends kids were definitely eating sweets and she lets them eat whatever they want.  I think that is Gwen's teaching after all.  You can eat whatever you want because food all breaks down into glucose or something like that.

I ate and had a good time.  You should have seen the face of one girl when I told her that I had gained 50 pounds over the years and would like to get it off.  A look of horror!  I was thinking that these people would be understanding because I assume most of them were overweight at one time.  But, I guess I had just admitted that I was sinful in their eyes.

In my experience there are quite a few eating disorders or disordered eating behaviors within the cult. I have seen a lot of men and some “thin eaters” eating normally but a lot of women “playing with their food” or taking “just a bite”. In the worst cases they are purging and often using marker foods to know when they have purged “enough”. It’s very sad. 

[Xan]

1 hour ago, RFFriend said:

Wow!  This is going to get interesting.  Joe flunked out of his flying course and then found someone to give him the credentials that he needed.  According to Dan, that person, a designated pilot examiner, has now lost his credentials for passing Joe.  Also, Dan is saying that people are writing to him telling him about custody battles.  I know that the church really advises people to set up will, custody arrangments etc and that the couples had done so.  But, family outside of Remnant will probably want a say what happens to their grandkids, nieces, nephews, etc.

Thanks for posting that!  I'm not surprised that Joe didn't have the credentials.  I was surprised, however, to hear that he had been removed from the JL & GL partnership last year.  Wonder what went on with that?  And they released the bodies to the church and not to the families?  Weird.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Xan

[RFsurvivor]

1 hour ago, RFFriend said:

Thanks for sharing.  I'm sorry that you had this experience.  What was the wake up moment for you?  Was it gradual or did something happen to expose what was really happening to you?

I would be interested in knowing what types of negative things does leadership tell people?  

Through them, I have met some really wonderful people there.  It's one thing to read about these cults, but a totally different experience when you know people caught up in them.

I’ve posted a lot of experiences over the last 17 threads but I’ll try to sum it up. It was a gradual thing where I started to question but the brainwashing kept me in. Then I was heavily shamed (by Gwen herself and others) for my weight gain (like 15lbs) and not allowed to be involved in the wedding of my “best friend” due to said weight gain. Her wedding was the last time I stepped foot in that church. If you look in my post history I think I’ve detailed it out in a previous post. 

[quiversR4hunting]

2 hours ago, RFFriend said:

Wow!  This is going to get interesting.  Joe flunked out of his flying course and then found someone to give him the credentials that he needed.  According to Dan, that person, a designated pilot examiner, has now lost his credentials for passing Joe.  Also, Dan is saying that people are writing to him telling him about custody battles.  I know that the church really advises people to set up will, custody arrangments etc and that the couples had done so.  But, family outside of Remnant will probably want a say what happens to their grandkids, nieces, nephews, etc.

Thank you for posting. This is very interesting about the lack of licensing especially since RF was quick to come out he passed his medical part when FAA originally showed he hadn't renewed. 

It was also guersome what he says about the body impact at the speed he thinks it went into the water.

He talks about the custody of the children of the victims. How many had minor children that are now orphans? (Brandon's children have their mom, Joe's kid has her mom, Gwen's kids are adults...)

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

He talks about the custody of the children of the victims. How many had minor children that are now orphans? (Brandon's children have their mom, Joe's kid has her mom, Gwen's kids are adults...)

Joe’s daughter is around 11 and has her mother. I bet she won’t let her daughter near RF now that Joe has died. The Walters couple that died have underage children. 3 I think. I wonder who will have custody of them. I know very little about that family. 

[quiversR4hunting]

23 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Joe’s daughter is around 11 and has her mother. I bet she won’t let her daughter near RF now that Joe has died. The Walters couple that died have underage children. 3 I think. I wonder who will have custody of them. I know very little about that family. 

I hope the Walter's extended family (parents, aunts and uncles) are not in RF and know the kids and will take care of them far away from RF. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I hope the Walter's extended family (parents, aunts and uncles) are not in RF and know the kids and will take care of them far away from RF. 

That’s what I’m wondering. This cult has only been around for 2 decades so it’s not like the FLDS where every family member is in it. I bet there are plenty of family members not in RF. And that will cause issues.

[WeirdHarold]

1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Thank you for posting. This is very interesting about the lack of licensing especially since RF was quick to come out he passed his medical part when FAA originally showed he hadn't renewed. 

It was also guersome what he says about the body impact at the speed he thinks it went into the water.

He talks about the custody of the children of the victims. How many had minor children that are now orphans? (Brandon's children have their mom, Joe's kid has her mom, Gwen's kids are adults...)

That's a must watch video.  Wow!  I'd like to see it fact checked, but if his statements are true I'm stunned.

[Strawbernana]

I was curious about the claims in that video, especially since he speculated Gwen and Joe weren’t legally married but we’ve seen the proof many threads ago that they were. This is my first post here so I apologize if my formatting is wonky, I have read every single thread on RF here in the last couple weeks though. 
Looking for the flight instructor he mentioned, Keith Chapman, I found his credentials as of 2018 from the FAA but I haven’t been able to find any mention of his being investigated or censured or anything like that (under 4th spoiler). 
As for the JL & GL business entity, the records seem to show it was created by Joe 3/11/19 and the registered agent was changed to Gwen on 2/19/20 (3rd spoiler). The impression that Joe was removed from the entity altogether may stem from the way the data is presented on OpenCorporates.com which seems less precise than the Tennessee Secretary of State site, since it’s a third party data aggregator (3rd spoiler).

It looks like the registered agent of Remnant Fellowship is still David Martin (Spoiler 2). I’m not sure how succession works in these types of situations.

The only entities I saw David Shamblin on were The Weighdown Workshop, INC, which became inactive in 2007 according to the TN Secretary of State site, and Weighdown Workshop Ministries which became inactive in 2008 (spoiler 1). 
 

If y’all know more of these entities names it’s easy to look them up on the TN Secretary of State site. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[RFFriend]

2 hours ago, Strawbernana said:

I was curious about the claims in that video, especially since he speculated Gwen and Joe weren’t legally married but we’ve seen the proof many threads ago that they were. This is my first post here so I apologize if my formatting is wonky, I have read every single thread on RF here in the last couple weeks though. 
Looking for the flight instructor he mentioned, Keith Chapman, I found his credentials as of 2018 from the FAA but I haven’t been able to find any mention of his being investigated or censured or anything like that (under 4th spoiler). 
 

I think this pilot, Dan, says a lot of things that he supposes.  So, I'm not sure what is fact and what is theory with him.  He keeps saying they weren't married and Joe was only playing a part, but he then said he hasn't researched if they had a marriage license or not.  It would be really bizarre if they weren't married and I don't see what point they would have had to make a charade of being married and not be married.

I researched the guy, Keith Chapman, who certified Joe and while I could find documents online that said he was a DPE on the FAA website as of 2018, when I went to the FAA website and searched under DPE with his name, he didn't come up.  I then just pulled up the whole state of TN and he wasn't listed.  So, what I don't know is if Dan knows for sure he had his credentials as an examiner revoked over this accident or if Dan is supposing because he doesn't see him in the list anymore.  I've seen enough of his videos to know he jumps to a lot of conclusions.

He is correct about the custody battles and I think this is related to the Walters kids.  The Martins had adult children, so I imagine they will raise their younger siblings.  But who knows, maybe family members of the Martins are fighting over who will raise them.  There may also be a lot of money involved with these estates and custody.

His comments about getting the remains yesterday are correct from what I understand and they have been buried.

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by RFFriend

[MobMarried]

8 hours ago, RFFriend said:

Wow!  This is going to get interesting.  Joe flunked out of his flying course and then found someone to give him the credentials that he needed.  According to Dan, that person, a designated pilot examiner, has now lost his credentials for passing Joe.  Also, Dan is saying that people are writing to him telling him about custody battles.  I know that the church really advises people to set up will, custody arrangments etc and that the couples had done so.  But, family outside of Remnant will probably want a say what happens to their grandkids, nieces, nephews, etc.

I'm curious how you "know" this about RF and living/estate arrangements. Public filings heretofore suggest otherwise. The parents had not done so, with regard to care of minor children or wills, according to the public record. In seven folks, one will has been produced. Most children were not addressed by any last testament, none are in possession of any named guardians in testaments that have been filed with the court, and at least one child's whereabouts is unknown. Again, how do you "know" this as a friend? If you have proof for your claims, please provide it.

As for Michelle's children's wrongful death civil suit required under the TCA, the list of Respondents just grew by about three. That case is quickly moving past tens of millions into the hundreds of same.

[Strawbernana]

Yeah, this Dan guy can be entertaining but he’s also quite unreliable, and I feel kinda weird taking anything he says seriously at this point especially if his sources are people emailing him about the custody battles of orphans? Why would anyone involved closely in the situation be emailing this small YouTuber who posts videos about flying? And all the allegations he made that I could easily fact check turned out to not be particularly true…
 

I’m personally far more interested in how the dynamics of the cult as a whole will develop since I’ve never heard of a situation quite like this where not only the leader but also a huge chunk of the top leadership suddenly die. I don’t know if we’ll ever know exactly how the hierarchy will end up reshuffling but I hope against hope (and maybe against reason) that the whole cult will either dissolve eventually or at least morph into something less destructive.

 

**Edited because he’s a youtuber not a “youtube’s”. Also not sure what sort of financials he was talking about but RF didn’t even file anything with the IRS because they are a church, I checked. The IRS will confirm they are a tax exempt charity when you put in their tax ID number but if you click to see any filings it tells you they don’t have to file due to being registered as a church.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Strawbernana
Made another typo in my first edit

[formergothardite]

I am fairly sure Gwen and Joe were legally married. I do think Joe played the part of devoted husband, but this wasn’t a paid acting gig like he is implying. I’m not sure this guy fully understands the cult situation. 

[RFsurvivor]

Thanks to everyone who has completed research. I agree with @Strawbernana that he seems to make claims based on what other people tell him. I would love to see his evidence. Like David is still the CEO of Remnant? They weren’t married? How is he fact checking what people are emailing him? I find the lack of receipts strange for some of the claims he is making. Just because someone emails you doesn’t make it true…

[nelliebelle1197]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:39 AM, Alisamer said:

I watched the video last night - and my understanding of it was that Joe hadn't actually been the captain in command of a flight before (IE, flying without a more experienced pilot or instructor right there), overloaded the plane (a plane isn't like a car, you don't top up the tank when you get a chance... you take only enough fuel to get where you're going plus an hour or hour and a half as a cushion, I think), took off into low visibility conditions, was crazy nervous to begin with, and became confused and began overcorrecting to the point of being unable to recover.

Sounds like it's likely that he was reacting to what he thought was happening rather than what his instruments were telling him, and got disoriented without being able to see anything other than cloud - no reference to be able to see what's up and what's down, or how fast they're moving. The passengers probably knew something wasn't quite right, but might not have had any idea the danger they were in. 

Even in a pressurized plane you can feel some sense of how the plane is moving, if the movement is big enough, I would think.

I know if I am even the slightest tiny bit congested I can tell you the second a plane I'm in begins descending, sometimes a good half hour or more before the pilot comes over the speaker to tell everyone they're "beginning their descent" into wherever you're landing. My sinuses are apparently very good at detecting that and alerting me by feeling like I've been hit in the face.

I'm not touching the "Joe was just acting a role" part. 

Just FYI, plug this YouTuber into the Google machine. He has some serious detractors online in pilot forums and he has put out bogus crash theories before.  I am not taking his word on anything because while it seems he legit knows  lot about flying, there are plenty of people in aviation forums that say he mostly an ego and tends to spout theory as fact. 
 

Also, Joe was not an inexperienced pilot. He had been flying most of his life.

Here is something Dan did in 2009:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-delta-pilot-idUSTRE5AB5Y920091112

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by nelliebelle1197

[WeirdHarold]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I am fairly sure Gwen and Joe were legally married. I do think Joe played the part of devoted husband, but this wasn’t a paid acting gig like he is implying. I’m not sure this guy fully understands the cult situation. 

An old favorite of mine.

Spoiler

The videos are convincing proof to me that they were married.

 

[AmazonGrace]

Daily thinspirational:

Gwen, (Lately Deceased), prays:

Thank you God for letting us live today. Thank you because it's so awesome to starve oneself. Some sad cases that we know are fat, obese or in normal weight range,   and we pray that they will also stop eating and start paying for our godly Pro Ana materials.

[Queen Of Hearts]

All I know is if there is even a remote chance that what this guy says about the condition of the bodies being true, there is no way I would ever swim or fish in that lake for many, many, many years to come.  

[smittykins]

16 hours ago, ManyGoats said:

Well, my brother and I used to jokingly say, "Let's go get a cold drank." I don't know where we heard the expression. Clearly it was from someone with a (southern?) twang, pronouncing 'drink' as 'drank.'

The only time I’ve heard it is this line from Ray Stevens’s “The Streak”:

”I looked in there and Ethel was gettin’ her cold drink…”

[Nonbeliever]

I am really curious about the flight examiner who passed Joe now. There is a Keith Chapman who owns a helicopter company in Nashville, with his wife who is 15 years younger than him. How close were they to Gwen and Joe? Are they in RF? If what is said in the video is true, he must be wracked with guilt knowing his actions could have lead to 7 deaths. 

[RFFriend]

9 hours ago, MobMarried said:

I'm curious how you "know" this about RF and living/estate arrangements. Public filings heretofore suggest otherwise. The parents had not done so, with regard to care of minor children or wills, according to the public record. In seven folks, one will has been produced. Most children were not addressed by any last testament, none are in possession of any named guardians in testaments that have been filed with the court, and at least one child's whereabouts is unknown. Again, how do you "know" this as a friend? If you have proof for your claims, please provide it.

As for Michelle's children's wrongful death civil suit required under the TCA, the list of Respondents just grew by about three. That case is quickly moving past tens of millions into the hundreds of same.

I'm sorry, I overspoke.  I don't know that they had anything official.  My friend told me that leadership had advised her to set up a will and a custody plan in the event of their deaths and I believe there was someone in the church that helped them set that up.  I also know about conversations she had with one of the deceased around this topic, so I assumed that at least that couple had also created legal docs.  I got the feeling that it was a thing with the members as there is a concern about family members pulling children out of the church in the event of their parents deaths.

Who is Michelle?

[Howl]

19 hours ago, RFFriend said:

Joe flunked out of his flying course and then found someone to give him the credentials that he needed.  According to Dan, that person, a designated pilot examiner, has now lost his credentials for passing Joe. 

Dan Gryder is an interesting...character.  I'd be skeptical but he names names, names the flight school, the people that own the fight school and the name of the guy who lost his credentials, so all of those things can be easily checked.  

Dan Gryder, up 'til now, kept in his lane discussing air accidents.  Is he just so fascinated with the crazy that is Remnant Fellowship? 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Howl

[Blue]

20 hours ago, RFFriend said:

Thanks for sharing.  I'm sorry that you had this experience.  What was the wake up moment for you?  Was it gradual or did something happen to expose what was really happening to you?

I would be interested in knowing what types of negative things does leadership tell people?  

Through them, I have met some really wonderful people there.  It's one thing to read about these cults, but a totally different experience when you know people caught up in them.

Please know, while ex members may have bad experiences with certain people and leaders, I don't think anyone here is saying that everyone in RF is a bad person by any means. We have met wonderful friends and I think our family who are in are wonderful people who are being spiritually and physically mislead by a theologically uneducated false "prophet." You WILL meet kind, loving, and fun people in RF. It doesn't mean that the theology isn't damaging or that the teaching about food doesn't often lead to eating disorders.

It's BECAUSE these are good people that I want them OUT. 

[hoipolloi]

10 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I am fairly sure Gwen and Joe were legally married.

While stranger things have happened, I also think it's highly likely they were legally married. 

Looks like TN marriage licenses are public records, but for recent marriages (1971 to present), you have to go in person to the TN Vital Records Office. I'd guess that someone -- particularly the media if not attorneys representing families of crash victims -- has already paid a visit or two to check on this. If so, there's no way that the lack of a marriage license wouldn't be in the news.