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Maxwell 48: The Maxwellhood of the Traveling Vest


Coconut Flan

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1 hour ago, clueliss said:

Vitamin C Drip?  Sorry but reading that gave me flashbacks to when my mom was alive, in memory care due to Dementia and an extended family member (of the anti-vaxxer spectrum of not jobs) told me to be sure that she was getting Vitamin C IVs.  (and that may have been at the end when my mother had gotten pneumonia)

It seems like a complete waste of time to me but her woo bullshit treatments don’t bother me since she’s doing real medical treatments too. My biggest problem with the woo bullshit is when they do it INSTEAD of actual medical treatment. She might get a little “me time” when she gets those bullshit drips. So maybe it actually helps. But with her mental health and not the cancer treatment. 

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When my dad was dying of MS, a lot of his Christian friends told him if he just prayed hard enough he would be healed. He even gave money to the preachers on TBN. My dad had the biggest heart and that didn’t heal him. That belief is so toxic. 

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3 hours ago, fundiewatch said:

I am not bothered by NR Anna’s post. These people attribute everything that happens to god’s will so of course this wouldn’t be different. I have, at different times in my life, wished that I was religious so I could think that all was always happening for the good. The more accurate truth, in my non religious mind, is that good and bad things happen to good and bad people every day, for no discernible reason. I actually find some comfort in the madness of it. 
 

My MIL got cancer and when they gave her the plan for surgery and chemo, she saw this diet containing food she’d never had in her life so that the chemo would work correctly and she just didn’t want to do it. She had surgery, and has gone to Germany several times for treatment that uses fever pushes, diet, all sorts of stuff. I don’t always understand all of it and it’s completely her decision. I think that, knowing what we know of Anna, it’s not surprising that she has selected a mixture of standard and naturopath treatment. 

I am always bothered by it because it inherently says that their god was involved enough in their day to day that he chose specifically to save/heal them - and obviously if their god can choose to heal/cure, he/she is clearly choosing NOT to heal/cure. The very selfish belief that their god is making decisions about the "good" in their life automatically means their god is also making the decisions about what is not good in life - all lives. I don't care if it's a god's will belief all fundies hold or a Christian thing - it is inherently the fact of their god choosing who lives & dies. It is being at the whim of some god with a plan that you have to be grateful for no matter what because it's his/her "will" and he/she works in mysterious ways. In an effort to accept what they can't change they've managed to turn their entire existence into a game of Chess that their god plays with all human lives. 

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It seems like a complete waste of time to me but her woo bullshit treatments don’t bother me since she’s doing real medical treatments too. My biggest problem with the woo bullshit is when they do it INSTEAD of actual medical treatment. She might get a little “me time” when she gets those bullshit drips. So maybe it actually helps. But with her mental health and not the cancer treatment. 

I personally have known quite a few women who've had breast cancer. All of them received radiation and the more severe cases also received chemo. Most of the women I've known who had breast cancer have survived. A lot of them were early stage breast cancer like Anna Marie. They were told to have radiation treatments, because radiation stops the spread of breast cancer to other areas of the body. 

Anna Marie seems to have decided she doesn't want radiation, possibly because she wants natural options. The oncologists told my friends that radiation is more important chemo. I hope Anna Marie is okay in the long run.

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, and I have limited health knowledge. I recommend finding a doctor to answer medical questions if someone is facing current health risks.

Edited by Bluebirdbluebell
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Here's a link to the John Oliver story about Health Care Sharing Ministries.

Spoiler

 

 

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1 hour ago, fundiefan said:

I am always bothered by it because it inherently says that their god was involved enough in their day to day that he chose specifically to save/heal them - and obviously if their god can choose to heal/cure, he/she is clearly choosing NOT to heal/cure. The very selfish belief that their god is making decisions about the "good" in their life automatically means their god is also making the decisions about what is not good in life - all lives. I don't care if it's a god's will belief all fundies hold or a Christian thing - it is inherently the fact of their god choosing who lives & dies. It is being at the whim of some god with a plan that you have to be grateful for no matter what because it's his/her "will" and he/she works in mysterious ways. In an effort to accept what they can't change they've managed to turn their entire existence into a game of Chess that their god plays with all human lives. 

Around the time Elizabeth Smart was abducted, a black girl in the Bay Area was abducted. She got very little attention, besides some short updates in back of the paper. Nothing even close you Elizabeth Smart. I don't even remember this girl's name, sadly. She was still missing when Elizabeth was found. 

My mom was so angry when Elizabeth Smart's dad said she was brought home because of everyone's prayers, and then thanked god for it. She said "So the black girl is still missing because there are not enough prayers? Does god not care about her as much as Elizabeth?"

It pissed her off when people talked about god like that, and she was a believer. 

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On 6/25/2021 at 10:40 PM, Black Aliss said:

BEC alert!

It's a shame there wasn't a professional photographer or even an instagrammer in the group who would have thought to move the dirty dishes out of the way before taking the picture.

Even a simple crop might have improved that, IMHO.

IMG_9303.thumb.jpg.6d9da6d59e1bd41c1c041a1b06e3250b.jpg

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5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It seems like a complete waste of time to me but her woo bullshit treatments don’t bother me since she’s doing real medical treatments too. My biggest problem with the woo bullshit is when they do it INSTEAD of actual medical treatment. She might get a little “me time” when she gets those bullshit drips. So maybe it actually helps. But with her mental health and not the cancer treatment. 

I do understand people who do the natural remedies WITH the medical ones. They can help you feel better in general and if they help you mentally that is great too. I don't want to get too specific but I had a condition that I was under the care of a doctor for that caused me a great deal of discomfort. I broke out some "natural" cures (with the blessing of my doctor). I don't know if these actually helped at all. However, it was empowering to me to feel like i was doing everything I could. Because of my extreme discomfort I had a lot of struggles with my mental health. I remember telling my husband that while I wasn't sure the natural remedies did anything in my mind they did and it helped me to face each new day. 

So anyway I am on the side of if your doctor says what your doing is fine and it helps you (even just mentally) go for it. Maybe it doesn't actually help but when facing a serious condition I don't blame anyone for trying everything. 

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As a 2x cancer sufferer, there's a lot of 'woo' that's peddled, some under good intentions, but a lot under money scheming intentions.  I get why people like Anna Marie want this "limited" chemo and "holistic" treatment.  Chemo isn't pretty and most people are terrified of it, as was I.  You are also in a very vulnerable state, and oncologists don't sugar coat or hold your hand.  Most of her holistic treatment is probably harmless, some may help (though it isn't scientifically proven), but I get concerned every time she mentions "limited" chemo.  I just hope she truly listens to board certified oncologists too.  

Megadoses of vitamin C have been theorized, but not yet scientifically proven, to kill cancer cells. (There was actually a big fad in the 70's and 80's for treating cancer with just vitamin c in unregulated clinics, then it fell out of favor even in those places, but now there are studies that suggest vitamin c may have a cytotoxic effect on cancer cells.)  If these infusions are cheap, then all she has to lose is her time.  If they aren't cheap, I'm worried she's being duped, because without proven scientific trials, we don't even know how much to dose, or how often, and if it even works at all.  

I would bet she's on an organic alkaline diet.  In and of itself, it's not harmful.  People tell me to try it all the time.  It's incredibly doubtful, scientifically, that you can change the ph of your body, but from what I recall, it has healthy vegetables that are good for you anyway.  Of all the 'woo' things to try, it's not going to hurt your treatment.

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As an addition to chemo, it might be a nice thing for Anna to get a day in Kansas City just to take care of herself for a day, whether the vit c has the intended effect or not.  It must have been exhausting coming back to parenting 6 children straight after cancer treatment, even with all the family around to help. 6 little kids and cancer, and she must worry for their future whether Jesus allows it or not, just wow. 

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11 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Around the time Elizabeth Smart was abducted, a black girl in the Bay Area was abducted. She got very little attention, besides some short updates in back of the paper. Nothing even close you Elizabeth Smart. I don't even remember this girl's name, sadly. She was still missing when Elizabeth was found. 

My mom was so angry when Elizabeth Smart's dad said she was brought home because of everyone's prayers, and then thanked god for it. She said "So the black girl is still missing because there are not enough prayers? Does god not care about her as much as Elizabeth?"

It pissed her off when people talked about god like that, and she was a believer. 

The Smarts are Mormon. Ed came out as gay in the last few years. I wonder if he thanks god for making him gay. I have a feeling some of his religious beliefs have changed since coming out. 

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On 6/27/2021 at 5:20 PM, allyisyourpally5 said:

With regard to how the Maxwells view waitstaff and if they truly understand how hard the job is....I have mixed feelings on it, largely because they never actually sent any Max kids out to work. They will argue that the children were encouraged to start their own business at a young age and had a lengthy list of chores - but they never actually sent them out to earn their own salary.

My first job was a paper route at 13 - I think this was a couple of hours 4 days a week in the morning. My first real job was at the grocery store from 16. 10 hour shifts, stacking shelves, cleaning and operating the cash register. Dull as hell at times, hard work. The daughters have never done a ten hour shift. Those “busy life” posts demonstrate about 3 hours of paid work a day. And for Mary those 3 hours included time on a drawing course she was doing. The rest was babysitting, chores, bible, baking, family time. 
 

So no, I don’t actually think they appreciate those kind of jobs to be honest, certainly not the “kids”. They have no idea. Mowing the lawn for neighbours or other jobs that I think the boys did were not carried out in 10 plus hour shifts with minimal breaks and ultimately were done around the Maxwells own timetable. A kid at the grocery store or a server can’t just say to their boss “the family and I are going on the road for a few weeks, plus we have some conferences to sing at, I need a few weeks off. My job will still be open when I return right?”. That’s where the Maxwell offspring have no clue.

I didn't mean to imply that they would stiff their server completely on the tip, but as your post illustrates, I do seriously wonder if (a) they realize how hard the server works and all the stress that goes into the job (the cheery smile when the plates arrive at the table don't necessarily indicate all is well in the back) and (b) they have any inkling how low the server's base hourly wage is - so are they generous or are they calculating exactly 15% down to the penny? Since learning how that whole server pay thing works I've become a lot more likely to go 20-25% (or significantly more in extreme cases like my diner-meeting group.)

On 6/27/2021 at 5:05 PM, FrumpyAtheist said:

"Karen" has become a misogynistic slur used to silence women. I wish other women wouldn't use it.

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2020/06/23/the-karen-becky-meme-has-officially-gone-too-far/

I have several friends named Karen. One is my age so it's not just a "grumpy old lady" name (and actually I just had a student named Karen this past year - first in my nearly-20-year career.) I hate that pop culture has assimilated an actual person's name and made it into an insult. I've had several pointed conversations with my students (and I teach elementary - they're picking it up too) about how unkind it is to use someone's name as an insult and how would they feel if THEIR name suddenly became the next unkind catchphrase?

I also feel for girls named Alexa who are the joke of their classroom/office because their parents unwittingly named them for the wake word of an Amazon device that didn't even exist when they were born. SMH.

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The acid test to me is, is this being done to men? There are plenty of Kevins who are not into fighting racism (more men than women voted for Trump) or the pandemic (more men than women refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated) and who don't hesitate to use their money or status to get what they want (men out earn women). 

But we mock the Karens and not the Kevins. 

Rank misogyny is my only explanation. 

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15 minutes ago, Foudeb said:

The acid test to me is, is this being done to men? There are plenty of Kevins who are not into fighting racism (more men than women voted for Trump) or the pandemic (more men than women refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated) and who don't hesitate to use their money or status to get what they want (men out earn women). 

But we mock the Karens and not the Kevins. 

Rank misogyny is my only explanation. 

Misogyny, but also fear. It reminds me of that old canard, back when extreme animal rights activists (PETA) would throw paint on women wearing fur coats. Someone asked why they didn't do the same thing with members of motorcycle gangs wearing black leather. And then there is whoever first said "Men worry about getting their feelings hurt by women. Women worry about being raped and murdered by men."

 

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The problem with Anna Marie’s treatment is that for someone as young as she is to have breast cancer is a tell tail sign the likelihood of recurrence goes up exponentially.  I feel like she is sitting on a time bomb.

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36 minutes ago, Foudeb said:

The acid test to me is, is this being done to men? There are plenty of Kevins who are not into fighting racism (more men than women voted for Trump) or the pandemic (more men than women refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated) and who don't hesitate to use their money or status to get what they want (men out earn women). 

But we mock the Karens and not the Kevins. 

Rank misogyny is my only explanation. 

Want to thank everybody who weighed in on the Karen issue. A very gentle friend has that name and it bothered me at the beginning. The horrifying story someone told about a woman being stalked snd her image used to sell merch was sobering. 
 

Indeed, why don’t people mock the Kevins?

Because it’s more important to keep women in their place, afraid to speak up when they perceive maltreatment. 
 

I browse things on Instagram “search” screen to decompress at bedtime. Usually photos of Duchess Kate’s latest outfit or cute kids / animals. Last evening’s wandering somehow led to men’s gymnastics, then to men competing at video games, then men at extreme sports. 
 

Occasionally images of women arrived: ballerinas in poses or screencaps that show the crotch, or a breast peeking out of a leotard, or with head tilted inquiringly, etc.

VERY occasionally there was video of a female floor gymnast or a cheer team.  They tended to be grainy, with ambient background noise instead of curated music.  
 

Men; they move. They’re dynamic.

Women: they pose, or are screencapped. . They’re interesting to stare at, etc. 

Misogyny IS the explanation.

in future, if I mention “a currency of Karens” it will be because I’m genially remarking that there two or more women with that name in the group of the moment.
 

Or I might observe that there’s  “a currency of Kevins” Or “a deliberation of Deborahs,” “a slew of Sallys,” or “a massing of Mikes,” etc.  Just like “a murder of crows.”  For fun, finding descriptive words when there are a lot of people present with the same name. 
 

I’ll go back to criticizing bad behavior when I feel so inclined, but yep, without use of any given names to describe bad behavior.  That is now off my list of my own acceptable behaviors. 
 

Thsnks to all for the consciousness-raising! 

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2 hours ago, Bethy said:

I have several friends named Karen. One is my age so it's not just a "grumpy old lady" name (and actually I just had a student named Karen this past year - first in my nearly-20-year career.) I hate that pop culture has assimilated an actual person's name and made it into an insult. I've had several pointed conversations with my students (and I teach elementary - they're picking it up too) about how unkind it is to use someone's name as an insult and how would they feel if THEIR name suddenly became the next unkind catchphrase?

Disclaimer: I don't use the term Karen to describe racist bitches or whiny privileged white women. I prefer to just call them what they are.

Not all Karens. . .I also have a friend named Karen and I think she handled this trend quite well back when the moniker was only applied to women who called 911 to report POC who were doing something the women didn't like. At that time [my friend] Karen said that a Karen complaining about her name being used to describe racist behavior was the most Karen thing imaginable.

1 hour ago, Foudeb said:

Rank misogyny is my only explanation. 

Rank misogyny abounds, I don't dispute that. But maybe people don't use Kevin in the same way because it's not often that a man calls 911 to report the existence of POC. Idle speculation: Maybe men just shoot POC who frighten them; women call the police to do the dirty work for them.

Edited by Black Aliss
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I have a thought. If a maxwell son, none of the daughters are married, sent their child out for school would it get mentioned on the main blog? 

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3 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

The problem with Anna Marie’s treatment is that for someone as young as she is to have breast cancer is a tell tail sign the likelihood of recurrence goes up exponentially.  I feel like she is sitting on a time bomb.

I'm no doctor but that is certainly a possibility. I get it, it must be exhausting to do all these treatments, but if they work, why not maximise your chances by doing all of them? Poor Anna Marie.

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My mum has a friend named Siri... I hope for her sake she uses something other than iPhone.

 

There are male names that get the Karen treatment (e.g. Kyle), though clearly not to the same degree.  I agree there definitely has to be a lot of misogyny involved.  That doesn't mean it has to by misogynistic but I think it's well worth stopping and thinking "am I dismissing a woman or feeding into a culture of silencing women, even as a joke?" before using it.

Actually, no, now that I think about it I can't actually see any good use of 'Karen' even as a joke.  It make be intended innocently but it still popularises a stereotype that harms women.

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The woo treatments also don't bother me in conjunction with traditional medicine.   I have a friend who had a very aggressive form of skin cancer (the name of which escapes me). She was also aggressive in doing everything she could to beat her cancer by getting traditional treatments, participating in immunotherapy studies (through a a recognized hospital) and taking non-traditional foods and supplements (with the blessing of her doctors). She said that she didn't want to leave anything on the table.  She didn't want to wonder "what if?" if she didn't beat it.   

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On 6/29/2021 at 7:53 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

The Smarts are Mormon. Ed came out as gay in the last few years. I wonder if he thanks god for making him gay. I have a feeling some of his religious beliefs have changed since coming out. 

I would say so, as Ed just married his boyfriend!

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For those worried about Anna Marie no radio treatment. While we don't know if her approach is correct or if she is neglecting her health, her whole story makes me think that she chooses the less agressive option, but she's not a fool. She has had many chemo sessions and traditional healthcare. I doubt she had decided not to take radio if radio was necessary.

She reminds me some crunchy moms of my kids daycare. They vaccinated the kids, but they asked the doctors to use uncommon brands, or used a different vaccination calendar. Apparently they were "alternative" but at the end, the kids were vaccinated like the other ones.

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Not everyone gets radiation when they have cancer. I work with someone who had breast cancer. She had chemo and surgery but didn’t have any radiation because it was not considered necessary for her type of cancer. I know someone else who had breast cancer who did not have to have chemo or radiation because of the type of breast cancer she had. They pushed her into menopause to stop some type of hormone and did surgery. Both are people who were willing to do whatever the doctor said, and luckily, they are both cancer free today. We don’t know if Anna refused radiation or if her doctor did not deem it necessary. She did the chemotherapy which leads me to believe she was doing what the doctor wanted her to do. She is cancer free so obviously something worked. 

Edited by socalrules
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Slight topic change. I know there’s a thread for fundie dreams, but this one was SO Maxhell.

Two of you (don’t recall who) and I had breached the compound and were sitting talking with Steve & Teri. We were thisclose to our objective (don’t recall what)  when I inadvertently uncovered  a piece of paper that gave us away. 
 

The surprise: They continued to talk with us, as they were only moderately disappointed - and not at all angry - to realize we were not who we’d pretended to be. 
 

Note To Self: No more chardonnay before bedtime. 

Edited by MamaJunebug
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