Voddie Baucham takes a turn driving the Wambulance of Christian Persecution

[Columbia]

I went looking for info on Voddie and AIDS, and instead stumbled on an old topic that should never die. 

[hoipolloi]

30 minutes ago, Columbia said:

I went looking for info on Voddie and AIDS, and instead stumbled on an old topic that should never die. 

Somehow, Iʻd never seen Voddie's "explanation" for his godawful statement which is made no better by citing the "larger context."

As always, with these patriarses, it all boils down to  blaming women for the failures, sins, and crimes of True Christian™️ men.

[Columbia]

9 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

As always, with these patriarses, it all boils down to  blaming women for the failures, sins, and crimes of True Christian™️ men.

Yep. It was creepy (and pretty whiney) to begin with, but now, in light of his buddy Doug’s indiscretions, it really hasn’t aged well. There’s a reason it’s not on any of his public pages any more.   

[forgetmenow]

Even though I never felt that that statement personally advocated for physical incest (although I was and remain terrified that its ambiguity easily provides a shield for those who would interpret as such), I'm as certain as ever that it absolutely advocates for emotional incest.  You have a committed, adult partner, dude.  None of your offspring should ever, ever have to provide anything to you that would keep you from having a physical or emotional affair with any other person, older, younger or the same age as you.  

[Howl]

My goodness, what a hideous rogue's gallery of four of the most asinine men on the planet, and who'd have guessed that Voddie would be right there on stage in the middle of it. 

 

[thoughtful]

On 6/10/2021 at 9:24 PM, forgetmenow said:

Even though I never felt that that statement personally advocated for physical incest (although I was and remain terrified that its ambiguity easily provides a shield for those who would interpret as such), I'm as certain as ever that it absolutely advocates for emotional incest.  You have a committed, adult partner, dude.  None of your offspring should ever, ever have to provide anything to you that would keep you from having a physical or emotional affair with any other person, older, younger or the same age as you.  

It's the creepy speech the father in The Philadelphia Story makes - one of the few  awful things about an otherwise witty and decent movie.

Quote

Seth (father): What most wives fail to realize is that their husbands' philandering has nothing whatever to do with them.

Tracy (daughter): Oh? Then what has it to do with?

Seth: A reluctance to grow old, l think. l suppose the best mainstay a man can have as he gets along in years... is a daughter. The right kind of daughter.

Tracy (sarcastically) : How sweet.

Seth: No, l'm talking seriously about something l've thought over thoroughly. l've had to. A devoted young girl gives a man the illusion... that youth is still his.

Tracy: Very important, l suppose.

Seth: Oh, very, very. Because, without her, he might be inclined to go in search of his youth. That's just as important to him as it is to any woman. But with a girl of his own, full of warmth for him... full of foolish, unquestioning, uncritical affection -

Tracy: None of which l've got.

Seth: None. You have a good mind, a pretty face... a disciplined body that does what you tell it. You have everything it takes to make a lovely woman except the one essential. An understanding heart. Without that, you might as well be made of bronze.

Tracy: That's an awful thing to say to anyone.

Seth: Yes, it is indeed.

Tracy: So l'm to blame for Tina Mara, am l?

Seth: To a certain extent, l expect you are.

Tracy: You coward!

Seth: But better that than a prig or a perennial spinster... however many marriages.

Margaret (mother): Seth, that's too much.

Seth: l'm afraid it's not enough. l'm afraid nothing is.

 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

My goodness, what a hideous rogue's gallery of four of the most asinine men on the planet, and who'd have guessed that Voddie would be right there on stage in the middle of it. 

Birds of a feather and all that. Whether or not Voddie really believes the vile shite he's spewing these days, he probably loves making the big bucks off the white supremacist base of American evangelical Christians.

Gotta pay somehow for that custom-built home back in Zambia!

 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

It's the creepy speech the father in The Philadelphia Story makes - one of the few  awful things about an otherwise witty and decent movie.

That is horrible, simply horrible conversation to have with a daughter, on so many levels. 

[Columbia]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

My goodness, what a hideous rogue's gallery of four of the most asinine men on the planet, and who'd have guessed that Voddie would be right there on stage in the middle of it.

What a bizarre combination. All they’re missing is that pillow guy. Much like Geoff and QAnon, I would have thought Voddie was far too clever to get caught up with the likes of Charlie Kirk and Eric Metaxas. 

[Howl]

46 minutes ago, Columbia said:

I would have thought Voddie was far too clever to get caught up with the likes of Charlie Kirk and Eric Metaxas. 

But there is something so ego-enticing about being asked to do something like this.  In certain circles, it anoints Voddie as a thought leader and could lead to more speaking gigs or invites to be on alt-reich talking head shows.  

Edited June 26, 2021 by Howl

[Howl]

A well deserved smackdown to Voddie et al. for the "vipers in diapers" child abuse POV.  Early humanist Erasmus Desiderius, by the way, was born in 1466: 

 

[CyborgKin]

Voddie at the centre of the earth's core: "I'm definitely not digging myself any deeper!"

[Columbia]

An interesting thread from Jasmine re: getting married out of the Stay At Home Daughter movement. I think her comments about how her husband rescued her from marrying someone who would have cut her down and the SAHD movement didn’t serve girls well are especially telling. 
 

I wish the Botkins would be that honest. I’ve never seen them come right out and say “we were wrong and our teachings hurt people.”

 

Edited to add:

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Columbia
Update

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, Columbia said:

An interesting thread from Jasmine re: getting married out of the Stay At Home Daughter movement. I think her comments about how her husband rescued her from marrying someone who would have cut her down and the SAHD movement didn’t serve girls well are especially telling. 

I give her credit for openly repudiating what she once pushed quite enthusiastically. 

Voddie, meanwhile, is doubling down on pandering to the white Christian nationalists who have formed his base, starting withe VF years. He has never, AFAIK, repudiated or apologized for his role in promulgating VF, Doug Phillips, or all of the toxic beliefs they endorsed for so long.

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

I give her credit for openly repudiating what she once pushed quite enthusiastically. 

Voddie, meanwhile, is doubling down on pandering to the white Christian nationalists who have formed his base, starting withe VF years. He has never, AFAIK, repudiated or apologized for his role in promulgating VF, Doug Phillips, or all of the toxic beliefs they endorsed for so long.

Nope. Nor does he defend his daughter. Jasmine gets a lot of flack from Voddie’s hyper-complementarian fans for being “woke” and having rejected her father’s teachings, and being a disgrace to Voddie. All it would take is one Tweet or blog post from him saying “leave her alone” but I’ve never seen it. 

[Howl]

On 7/14/2021 at 11:42 AM, Columbia said:

I wish the Botkins would be that honest. I’ve never seen them come right out and say “we were wrong and our teachings hurt people.”

Aren't the Botkinetti are still completely awash in the koolaid?  They STILL LIVE AT HOME, SAHD style, with GEOFF, the erstwhile duck biologist, general wing nut, faux intellectual, bilious gas bag and pretentious patriarch.  They must still believe in order to pull that off.  I don't see any member of the Botkin Borg offering an apology any time soon.  I see Geoff at least going much deeper down the crazy hole of reich wing insanity. 

[Columbia]

Wow. 

[Howl]

What a kind, thoughtful and tender hearted response! Further evidence Benjamin B has left the Botkin Borg in the rear-view mirror. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

Ben Botkin exemplifies grace & humility in that response.

Meanwhile, for the True Christians™️, hereʻs a little musical interlude:

 

[stylites]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:07 PM, hoipolloi said:

I give her credit for openly repudiating what she once pushed quite enthusiastically.

Is the book still in print, and does she still receive the royalties from it?

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, stylites said:

Is the book still in print, and does she still receive the royalties from it?

She said here that it's out of print. VF published it originally & they went out of business in 2013. 

OTOH, her father's guide for patriarses is still in print (published by Crossway) & he's presumably cashing in on it.

[gracegrace]

22 hours ago, stylites said:

Is the book still in print, and does she still receive the royalties from it?

Jasmine didn’t write the book and didn’t produce the documentary. She was just interviewed and filmed. I would be shocked if she’s ever gotten any royalties, and she certainly can’t withdraw either from distribution. That’s on the Botkin sisters.

To my eye, Jasmine loves her dad, agrees with him on some things, disagrees on others, and doesn’t feel any need to put their whole relationship through internet scrutiny. She regrets a bunch of things she said publicly in her teens, and has made that clear. I respect her decision to take responsibility for her own actions and words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hoipolloi]

6 hours ago, gracegrace said:

To my eye, Jasmine loves her dad, agrees with him on some things, disagrees on others, and doesn’t feel any need to put their whole relationship through internet scrutiny. She regrets a bunch of things she said publicly in her teens, and has made that clear. I respect her decision to take responsibility for her own actions and words.

Agree with all of this. She is not responsible for her father's previous & ongoing promotion of toxic ideas.

For that matter, Benjamin Botkin is not responsible for his father's many years of abusive control masquerading as Christianity. Whether or not Victoria Botkin also bears responsibility for enabling Geoff's abuse is a good question. 

This Twitter thread lays out the issues for adult children of fundies quite well:

 

[Khendra]

Agree with gracegrace!  I'm not on Twitter, but I still read Jasmine's a bit because she does such a good job balancing grace while not accepting her father's more extreme teachings.  I will never leave WELS for the Reformed because the Reformed are still too brain-dead when it comes to women's sexuality (I say this as a woman who will always still tingle all over when I see men who are hot hot hot hot hot no matter how much the conservative Reformed insist this is somehow impossible for women), but it's nice to see more of them at least distancing themselves from that SAHD stuff.  As some of you know, I never grew up that way myself (my dad was an easygoing, live-and-let-live sort of guy), but was exposed to SAHD, Vision Forum, and other theological distortions through Jordan Niednagel's blog and Facebook in the 2010s.  What a confusing time that was for me; I'm happy to say that I'm finally fully past that stage of my life, I'm no longer angry and lashing out at others, and 2021 is the happiest year of my life.

[danvillebelle]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:49 AM, gracegrace said:

Jasmine didn’t write the book and didn’t produce the documentary. She was just interviewed and filmed.

Yes in regards to The Return of the Daughters...but Jasmine did write her own separate book, "Joyfully at Home", that was published by VF.