Meghan and Harry 6: Everything about this Is Kind of Cringe

[EmCatlyn]

28 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Gayle King couldn't wait to blab on TV about Meghan's shower.  Why would anyone think she'd keep info from Harry to herself?

For people claiming to want privacy, they're going about it backwards.

For people who shamed her father for going to the press, they certainly want to tell their side to the world. 

Is it Harry who told Gayle King or Meghan?   I am not sure Harry would use the expression, “not very productive,” and think it is either Meghan’s or Gayle King’s wording.  

The more likely scenario, I think, is that Harry told Meghan about the phone call(s) and reported that his brother (and father?) were angry and did not understand what they were trying to do, and then Meghan told Gayle, “Yes, they talked, but so far it hasn’t been very productive.”  

I think this may be why there are reports that the royals worry than anything they tell Harry will leak.  Maybe they fear (know?) that Harry won’t keep anything from Meghan, and she will not always keep her mouth shut.

[just_ordinary]

Thanks to @louisa05 and @HerNameIsBuffy for the responses. It might come down to different scientific discourses in our countries then. Holocaust survivors and descendants of slaves are the best researched groups (with slave descendants having their own syndrome now, PTSS iirc). But there are also lots of studies around children of soldiers and veterans, indigenous groups, victims of racism, child abuse, torture or natural disaster and war. The research for actual epigenetic visible consequences is extremely fascinating but the psychological and sociological effects are very interesting too. In the end, everyone will find some passed down markers if you look long enough. So, from that point of view his claim was fine, but poorly worded. And it’s in general pretty stupid to cry about your hard lot in life to people that had way less privilege to overcome obstacles and trauma.

[Xanariel]

Definitely some very thought-provoking discussions! 

I think this is a pretty complicated matter. On one hand, parents can be loving and well-meaning and still negatively impact their kids, and I think the kids have a right to talk about it. Diana was a loving mother, but her parentification of William was pretty horrific. Boarding schools within the UK for instance were often seen as the best thing an upper-class family could do to ensure a successful grounding for their children - but we know thousands of children suffered emotionally from being separated from their families, even if others benefited. 

Philip for instance flourished at his boarding school, and obviously thought it would be of great benefit to Charles - but we know Charles struggled there and complained of the distance of his parents elsewhere. So I do think Harry could be damaged from how Charles raised his sons, even if it was with the best of intentions, and I think he should have the right to talk about it. 

But on the other hand...publicly complaining about Charles and his grandparents' parenting shortly after Philip died looks incredibly insensitive at best, and definitely without the grace of acknowledging the ways in which his family tried to protect him (E.g. Philip railed furiously against the infamous coffin walk which the government and Spencers pushed for, but when he gave in he told the boys that if they did it, he and their father would walk with them). 

I also think it can be difficult at times to work out when Harry means well but is just expressing himself badly or when he's being deliberately misleading. It's doubly difficult with Meghan, because while she is way more polished and adept at expressing herself than Harry, she's also said the she relied on him to be her guide, so although she says stuff that can be contradictory or plain wrong (like the security issue) I don't know if that's more that she got the wrong impression off Harry who seems to have massively sucked at preparing her for any of it. 

[viii]

8 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

For having so many issues with the press you’d think he’d be more cautious/paranoid. But with covid it’s not like Harry had much time after moving to develop very many new friendships or relationships so he might have been stuck trying to bond with whatever member of the media called him.

This goes for both Harry and Meghan...I could  understand their choices better if they were in their 20s...but for being 40 and 36  and being in the public eye for decades (Harry, at least) you think they would at least know to hire a better PR person. Do they have one???

Perhaps he thinks the American media is different because I’d say for the most part, Harry and Meghan are both cast in a favourable light when it comes to American media. People Mag creams themselves over the pair of them regularly. 

I agree so much with your second point. All of this would make so much more sense if they were young and in their twenties but they’re not. They have the worst PR, if they have one. 

[Xanariel]

1 hour ago, viii said:

Perhaps he thinks the American media is different because I’d say for the most part, Harry and Meghan are both cast in a favourable light when it comes to American media. People Mag creams themselves over the pair of them regularly. 

I agree so much with your second point. All of this would make so much more sense if they were young and in their twenties but they’re not. They have the worst PR, if they have one. 

Both Harry and Meghan have referenced the US not really having tabloids, which...I think the UK tabloid press is unmatched in its sheer ferocity, but I'm not sure anyone who lived through the Britney/Lindsey/Paris era could claim the US is immune to them. Heck, there's an old photograph of Meghan posing with a copy of a magazine claiming Kate was having twins, so it's not as if she wouldn't have seen that royals get inaccurate info splashed across the front pages. 

Oddly enough, they not only have PR but quite a powerhouse firm - Sunshine Sachs, which they retained first as working royals. There were reports in the UK press that the Palace was quite annoyed by it, because Meghan and Harry were running most of their stuff through this US firm while the UK team was in the dark. Given we know that they were negotiating with Quibi and other firms - which would have been a massive no-no from BP's team - it seems to have been a deliberate choice and possibly represents the moment they decided on leaving. 

Ultimately, I don't think Meghan needs much PR help. She's very composed and articulate, sticks to her talking points and seems pretty charismatic. It's Harry that's going to need careful instruction on not inserting his foot into his mouth. 

[viii]

29 minutes ago, Xanariel said:

I'm not sure anyone who lived through the Britney/Lindsey/Paris era could claim the US is immune to them.

100%!!! The American tabloids can be absolutely ruthless. 

[keen23]

23 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Fwiw I hope they don't.  Not because royals, but I just believe kids should live with their families unless there is a compelling reason otherwise.  

I was so envious of my friend who went to a boarding high school. I REALLY wanted to be able to go. But, a year of tuition and boarding in the 1990's cost more than my entire four years of college (classes and room and boarding).

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, keen23 said:

I was so envious of my friend who went to a boarding high school. I REALLY wanted to be able to go. But, a year of tuition and boarding in the 1990's cost more than my entire four years of college (classes and room and boarding).

I had friends from home who thought I was so lucky, but it wasn't a good thing IME.  And yes, it's pricey.  I went in the 80's and it was ~35k a year except the year I did a semester abroad and that was a little upwards of 55k.  When my dad died one of my siblings joked that the ~150k he spent on my high school should come out of my share of the estate and I had no sense of humor about it.  I may have lost my shit about how I wasn't paying for our parent's bad decisions....and that sibling learned you don't joke around about stuff like that with someone with gallons of pregnancy hormones at the ready.  

Paying for college was a bargain in comparison.

[Melbelle]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:22 PM, DalmatianCat said:

Now that you say it...maybe that is what he’s thinking???? Everyone else had perfect parents but him? But if he does...he’s even more naive than I thought.

For having so many issues with the press you’d think he’d be more cautious/paranoid. But with covid it’s not like Harry had much time after moving to develop very many new friendships or relationships so he might have been stuck trying to bond with whatever member of the media called him.

This goes for both Harry and Meghan...I could  understand their choices better if they were in their 20s...but for being 40 and 36  and being in the public eye for decades (Harry, at least) you think they would at least know to hire a better PR person. Do they have one???

They are supposedly represented by Sunshine Sachs, one of the most powerful PR firms in the US/World.  They've worked with numerous celebrities, including Ben Affleck, Justin Timberlake, Natalie Portman, and reportedly the Clinton Family and DNC.  The question is...are they actually listening to their PR firm or is the firm just taking their money, because their PR is not something to be impressed by at all at this point.  

[tabitha2]

Why? Don’t you know They are already experts on the environment, experts on Mental health, financial Wizards, media power players, can absolutely understand and empathize with the “common people” like no other Royal ever did or will... Harry is a regular  guy, yo! 

[nausicaa]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:32 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

As a middle class American kid who went to boarding school (albeit only for high school) this was my experience.   It absolutely changed the dynamic between my parents and that was pretty universal from my classmates experiences as well.  

My military cousin and his wife sent their sons to boarding school starting at age 10 because she wanted them to have British accents (which they have promptly lost) and frankly because she seems to have wanted a lot of free time. Both boys are now young men and there are serious rifts and developmental issues in that family because of the separation.

The parents recently had a really messy divorce and cousin's wife tried to claim my cousin and his family had alienated her from her sons because they no longer spoke to her much. I thought, lady, you did that all on your own. (My cousin is a total dingbat and kind of a dick, but isn't guilty on that specific charge at least.)

 

And I'm understanding about Harry still working through some stuff well into his thirties. I am too. In fact, I'm the reigning queen of "Can't let a single goddamn thing go." But running to air all of the dirty laundry and other people's business to the press is so unfair, immature, and distasteful. You can work through things in private. 

On 5/18/2021 at 11:25 AM, louisa05 said:

He can do things differently than his parents without all this whining to the press. Prince George turns 8 this summer and there’s zero indication that he is going to be leaving his current school which is a day school. The photo calls with a mob of press that Charles and Diana did for the boys’ birthdays have never been done with William’s children. 

Yeah, I'm so confused on this one and why he is acting like he and Meghan are the first hands on parents in the history of the royal family. I thought that Harry had stated he really respected Kate's parenting skills? Her parents are very much in the picture, she seems very hands on, and the children seem kept from a lot of publicity. At least in the family context, it's always seemed pretty down-to-earth with the Cambridges (well, down-to-earth for rich people, obviously). I'm pretty sure Kate has changed diapers for all of her kids and could tell you their interests and favorite shows. So I don't know why Harry is acting like he is blazing some new trail here. 

[tabitha2]

 Because it’s at the point he seems to not care who he puts down or bad mouths in his paternal family and the press laps it up giving him a high? Validation? 
 

I think because Kate was not automatically become BFFs with Meghan, did not cater to her constantly and most likely had the reservations her husband had to Harry’s thinking she is out as his friend , let alone as his sister as he once called her. So he lashes out unreasonably 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

So what do we think about William and Harry’s separate statements on the BBC investigation of Diana’s Panorama interview? Very different perspectives there. Harry basically said “all media intrusiveness sucks everywhere,” while William focused on how the BBC’s lies fueled Diana’s paranoia. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

So what do we think about William and Harry’s separate statements on the BBC investigation of Diana’s Panorama interview? Very different perspectives there. Harry basically said “all media intrusiveness sucks everywhere,” while William focused on how the BBC’s lies fueled Diana’s paranoia. 

I think they were both really good. Both statements needed to be said, so I think they covered a lot of ground. 

https://people.com/royals/prince-harry-therapy-mental-health-series-the-me-you-cant-see/

This is a really good article from Harry talking about his mental health and how much he has had to work through. I think it’s easy to judge him but I don’t think we have a clue about the trauma he endured as a child and how it affected him. (I know that lots of people have trauma and I wouldn’t judge them either) 

 

[tabitha2]

It’s like with the Duggars... you had a traumatic dysfunctional childhood? Your parents made huge mistakes? You need or need serious therapy because of that? That’s terrible and We get it! 
 

But it does not excuse every damaging choice or the way you treat people as an adult person. It does not give you the right to hurt others because you were hurt. 
 

 

[Xanariel]

7 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

So what do we think about William and Harry’s separate statements on the BBC investigation of Diana’s Panorama interview? Very different perspectives there. Harry basically said “all media intrusiveness sucks everywhere,” while William focused on how the BBC’s lies fueled Diana’s paranoia. 

I think both statements were valid; they had different relationships with Diana and obviously will focus on different things. 

I think William in particular is in a very difficult place at the moment. He was Diana's confidante as a teenager and saw her issues in a way that a child never should for their parent, and he warned her away from Bashir then. Now it's been revealed that Diana was told he was spying on her for Charles. Because the BBC covered up the lies, she may have died thinking that. 

And he's the future king, but clearly very angry with the state broadcaster. Given how Diana's paranoia led her to reject her royal security - security trained in dealing with car chases and not allowing a client to travel without a seat-belt - I think there's a haunting question about whether she'd have been in that situation in Paris without Bashir. 

[louisa05]

9 hours ago, viii said:

I think they were both really good. Both statements needed to be said, so I think they covered a lot of ground. 

https://people.com/royals/prince-harry-therapy-mental-health-series-the-me-you-cant-see/

This is a really good article from Harry talking about his mental health and how much he has had to work through. I think it’s easy to judge him but I don’t think we have a clue about the trauma he endured as a child and how it affected him. (I know that lots of people have trauma and I wouldn’t judge them either) 

 

He keeps telling different stories.  In 2017, he said he’d been in therapy for two years after being urged to by William. Suddenly he never went until Meghan told him to.  So which was it? 
And one story I read said this series includes a filmed therapy session for him. I’m not in the counseling field, but I suspect it is not remotely ethical to film a patient’s session for public consumption. It is even a therapist treating him? Is it even a licensed therapist? We know Oprah doesn’t care about little details like professional licenses.  *coughDrPhilcough* We know she’s peddled some major woo in her time (Yhe Secret, anyone???).  
Harry and Meghan both seem to have serious mental health issues. There is no indication she has received appropriate care. Moving across the globe and giving an interview to Oprah isn’t treatment for suicide ideation. 
This is all a train wreck and it’s hard to take all three of them seriously. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I’m not in the counseling field, but I suspect it is not remotely ethical to film a patient’s session for public consumption. It is even a therapist treating him? Is it even a licensed therapist?

I would imagine it would be legal if the patient agreed to it.  They can't film your colonoscopy and show it on TV, but Katie Couric allowed it for hers and it ran as a segment on her show.  

[louisa05]

7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I would imagine it would be legal if the patient agreed to it.  They can't film your colonoscopy and show it on TV, but Katie Couric allowed it for hers and it ran as a segment on her show.  

Therapy is not the same. And it can be detrimental to the patient. Which I’m guessing this is. 
And again, is it his therapist or a random one? Is it a licensed therapist or Dr Phil 2.0? Or perhaps a woonatic self help author wannabe? 
In the midst of promoting therapy and exploiting a man with serious issues for profit while also sharing her own life traumas, Oprah told the Today Show this morning that she’s never had therapy. Again, this is a train wreck for profit. Pretending it’s anything else is a bad idea. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Therapy is not the same. And it can be detrimental to the patient. Which I’m guessing this is. 
And again, is it his therapist or a random one? Is it a licensed therapist or Dr Phil 2.0? Or perhaps a woonatic self help author wannabe? 
In the midst of promoting therapy and exploiting a man with serious issues for profit while also sharing her own life traumas, Oprah told the Today Show this morning that she’s never had therapy. Again, this is a train wreck for profit. Pretending it’s anything else is a bad idea. 

I am not a doctor, but I do know therapy is different than a colonoscopy  

I wasn't pretending it was legit, just saying I would think the consent laws would probably apply as it's still medical treatment.  People agree to things that are detrimental to themselves all the time and the law doesn't stop them.  He's not declared incompetent and if he makes unwise medical choices regarding his therapy that's on him.  

And Oprah is just a sanctimonious garbage human.  When I see how revered she is by so many I always wonder what the hell dimension I'm in.  She was bad enough, but then foisting Dr. Phil into the public eye...there is no forgiveness for that.

[viii]

32 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

He keeps telling different stories.  In 2017, he said he’d been in therapy for two years after being urged to by William. Suddenly he never went until Meghan told him to.  So which was it? 

There is no indication she has received appropriate care. Moving across the globe and giving an interview to Oprah isn’t treatment for suicide ideation. 

In the article he states that he had been in and out of therapy for four years prior to meeting Meghan but none of it stuck and he had never fully opened up during the sessions. Once he met Meghan, he realized he had to take therapy seriously if he wanted the relationship to work. 

We have no indication that she hasn't received appropriate care. Your post comes off a bit shaming, imo. There are plenty of valid reasons to dislike Harry/Meghan and judging what they do and don't do. There's no need to speculate on things you know nothing about. Meghan's mental health is her business and she doesn't owe it to the public to say whether or not she's in therapy. 

[louisa05]

20 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I am not a doctor, but I do know therapy is different than a colonoscopy  

I wasn't pretending it was legit, just saying I would think the consent laws would probably apply as it's still medical treatment.  People agree to things that are detrimental to themselves all the time and the law doesn't stop them.  He's not declared incompetent and if he makes unwise medical choices regarding his therapy that's on him.  

And Oprah is just a sanctimonious garbage human.  When I see how revered she is by so many I always wonder what the hell dimension I'm in.  She was bad enough, but then foisting Dr. Phil into the public eye...there is no forgiveness for that.

Of course he consented. You’re misunderstanding my question. What kind of therapist lacks the ethics to say no to a stunt that is detrimental to the patient? I’m asking about the therapist. Not Harry. And, given Dr Phil, I suspect it’s not Harry’s actual therapist and possibly not a licenses one at all. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Of course he consented. You’re misunderstanding my question. What kind of therapist lacks the ethics to say no to a stunt that is detrimental to the patient? I’m asking about the therapist. Not Harry. And, given Dr Phil, I suspect it’s not Harry’s actual therapist and possibly not a licenses one at all. 

Sorry I misread, I thought you were talking about the legalities.  I agree that legalities aside I wouldn't trust a therapist who would agree to this dog and pony show.  

And yes, if it's Dr. Phil adjacent I'm not going to assume legit or licensed.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

55 minutes ago, viii said:

Meghan's mental health is her business and she doesn't owe it to the public to say whether or not she's in therapy. 

I agree that mental health issues are no one else's business, but once she spoke publicly about being suicidal and mental health struggles it opened the door to the public wondering if she's gotten appropriate therapy.  That doesn't mean the public is entitled to an answer.

Similar to how it's fair for the public to hope Josh's kids have been evaluated by CPS or the courts for their safety, but whether it's been done or the results are certainly none of our business.  

[viii]

15 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree that mental health issues are no one else's business, but once she spoke publicly about being suicidal and mental health struggles it opened the door to the public wondering if she's gotten appropriate therapy.  That doesn't mean the public is entitled to an answer.

I agree - I'm also curious about whether or not she has gotten some help and the state of her mental health right now. However, unless she is willing to talk about it, I don't expect her to. It can be deeply private and I think it didn't help that she was very vulnerable in sharing her truth and people gave her backlash for it by saying she's attention seeking, a liar, a drama queen, etc. 

It doesn't seem to matter what Meghan says - she's damned either way to some people.