Meghan and Harry 6: Everything about this Is Kind of Cringe

[adidas]

So Harry says that the royal family is suffering from genetic pain from bad parenting. Way to throw his very newly dead Grandfather under the bus. 

Nobody is saying that the royals are perfect, but dude. Read the room. 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/prince-harry-says-royals-are-in-cycle-of-genetic-pain-passing-on-bad-parenting-habits/ar-BB1gHT5v

[tabitha2]

Yet watch him cry to his talk show friends when he is not invited to future family events and Royal ceremony and whine about  how mean!1! they are. 

 

[viii]

I mean, I understand what he’s saying and agree to it to a degree. I don’t think Charles was raised very lovingly, and the differences between Charles and Diana’s parenting methods were stark. However, his grandfather has just died and this just doesn’t seem like the time for it. 

I wish I knew his agenda. Although I’m guessing Harry wishes he knew his agenda, too. 

[tabitha2]

I think Diana Indulged and spoiled him. In her own words the firm or family would look after William.Stands to reason she  saw Harry as her particular cheeky naughty baby and it did him no favors to say the least. 
 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I think Diana Indulged and spoiled him. In her own words the firm or family would look after William.Stands to reason she  saw Harry as her particular cheeky naughty baby and it did him no favors to say the least. 
 

 

The parent that indulges and spoils you, the one whose world revolves around you can be the one who made you feel the most loved as a kid and when you lose them it can leave a void that's impossible to fill.  Or something...projecting my own issues onto Harry is totally normal  

Seriously though, having kids makes a lot of people reevaluate their own upbringing and that's great when people consciously decide what they want to pass on to their kids, and what they want to spare them.  Losing a grandparent and seeing your parent's grief can also bring up a lot of family stuff so it's not weird that he's thinking about this stuff, but damn the way he's presenting it is so off-putting.

Self-reflection is great, whining to the press about it is not.  I mean it's not like you need to be a member of the BRF to have generations of unhealthy family dynamics, sadly it's pretty damn common.

Also someone needs to teach him the definition of the word genetic so he can stop using it wrong.

 

[louisa05]

I’ve seen speculation that he was trying to claim generational trauma. And that isn’t from imperfect parents. Not at all. 
 

This man child needs to check his privilege. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, louisa05 said:

I’ve seen speculation that he was trying to claim generational trauma. And that isn’t from imperfect parents. Not at all. 
 

This man child needs to check his privilege. 

If that's what he's trying to claim he needs to stfu right now.  

[tabitha2]

He regularly makes a big old word salad and throws out serious concepts and terms he doesn’t remotely understand to make himself sound deep? Intelligent? Relevant? 
 

Sorry his mom died when was 12 but that’s not an excuse for the laughable annoying aimless gormless middle aged man he is rapidly becoming . 
 

Edit to add: Why is not Speaking out about the Spenser’s? Diana’s family and upbringing did not result in a mentally healthy individual plus She and her mother had a bad relationship and Earl Spenser only cared about his sister after she died. 
 

Right! Maybe Because The Earl and his can speak out and fight back the way the Windsor’s can’t? The big mouthed man child can probably dish but not take. 
 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by tabitha2

[viii]

39 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Edit to add: Why is not Speaking out about the Spenser’s? Diana’s family and upbringing did not result in a mentally healthy individual plus She and her mother had a bad relationship and Earl Spenser only cared about his sister after she died. 
 

Right! Maybe Because The Earl and his can speak out and fight back the way the Windsor’s can’t? The big mouthed man child can probably dish but not take. 

It's interesting Harry focuses so much on the Windsor side of family, rather than Spencer, because you're right - Diana had a terrible upbringing. She was desperate for love and her lack of stability and support in her youth is probably what led to her rushing into things with Charles because she was so hungry to be loved. I think if she had a healthy childhood, she likely would have rebuffed Charles from the start. 

Of course, Harry might focus more on the Windsor side of his family tree because it's the one he is most familiar with. While he has made intentional gestures of including his Spencer family (at his wedding, Archie's birth announcement, Archie's baptism), I do think that majority of his childhood after Diana's death was spent with the Windsor side and the Spencer family time was limited. However, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he chooses to blast the Windsor side because they're limited in their ability to respond, whereas Charles Spencer would have no issue running to the press. 

I think Harry's reflection of family upbringing is completely normal. Every day average people reconsider what they want to bring forward from their past and what they want to leave behind when they have children. However, the media isn't the place to do it and it's certainly not going to win him any favours. I know he's trying to come off as relatable, but it just doesn't work. 

He's getting harder and harder to defend and less easy to like. Still #teammeghan tho. 

[tabitha2]

Meghan is somewhat more image savvy  and has definite plans for her future that involve the media and public opinion presumably. 
 

Let her husband by hang himself right? 
 

You may be on teamMeghan but they are both terrible  and fake ass and  in different ways so I am on teamSTFU for both:)
 

 

[DalmatianCat]

2 hours ago, viii said:

I mean, I understand what he’s saying and agree to it to a degree. I don’t think Charles was raised very lovingly, and the differences between Charles and Diana’s parenting methods were stark. However, his grandfather has just died and this just doesn’t seem like the time for it. 

I wish I knew his agenda. Although I’m guessing Harry wishes he knew his agenda, too. 

Their methods were different, but from the outside looking in, I don’t think Charles was a terrible parent anymore than I think Diana was a great one. They both had crummy childhoods and Diana’s approach to parenting seemed to be much more openly and physically affectionate, but I think behind the scenes Charles was probably trying to do better than his parents (or at least his dad).

Now...this next part is coming from a middle-class American perspective where even moms who work full-time are constantly busy with car rider lines, sports practice, dance practice, coordinating schedules of kids, spouses, meals, errands, making sure homework is done, volunteering at school, making sure kids are in bed at night, etc. Everyone in my town sends their kids to public school or, if you don’t like those options, we have two private schools in town as well. From this type of American perspective, I’m curious as to how much parenting influence either Charles or Diana would have had with the boys after they went to boarding school at 8 and if all their visits home were full of fun and treats and not the more typical “boring” aspects of parenting.

Maybe Harry’s been comparing stories with Meghan and (aside from how crazy the Markle side seems now, her dad did seem fairly involved growing up even after her parents split), realized how much of a “normal” growing up experience he missed out on. He likes to insinuate that he’s really a normal guy but he doesn’t have any idea what “normal” is from a middle class American perspective and he does seem like he’s working very hard to fit in while also not having a clue. 

I definitely understand his desire to reflect on his upbringing and what he wants to do differently (just as I think his parents tried desperately to do better than their parents they just had a lot going against them), but he doesn’t seem to have grasped the concept of “things you share with your therapist vs. things you share with the media”.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DalmatianCat
Wordy

[louisa05]

He can do things differently than his parents without all this whining to the press. Prince George turns 8 this summer and there’s zero indication that he is going to be leaving his current school which is a day school. The photo calls with a mob of press that Charles and Diana did for the boys’ birthdays have never been done with William’s children. The majority of birthday photos have been taken at home by their mother. I think George’s first were family pictures done privately by one portrait photographer.  Prince Edward’s children don’t go to boarding school even as teens. Mike Tindall has said he doesn’t see them sending their kids to boarding schools.  Moral of the story: there was no need to run away or to engage in a public pity party in order to raise his kids differently. He could have just done it. 

[tabitha2]

Realistically speaking neither Charles and Diana did the actual dirty not so fun work of Parenting. If The boys pooped  their pants in a public place or had a crying exorcist meltdown or refused to go to bed it and making kids HATE YOU !! By giving them consequences for misbehavior it was not them dealing with it because busy senior Royal parents just don’t do that and aren’t expected too. Then they were sent to boarding school for most of the year. It was nannies and public schools who formed them for the most part. Diana may have laughed off the naughtiness because she could but I am sure the nannies and teachers did not 
 

So on breaks having fun outings to water parks and McDonald’s and meeting the Spice girls and enjoying  sporting outings in the country was the Parenting they could do. 
 

But the Difference was the more steady William got his Grandmother's time and fathers Royal training/influence  and he took to it. 

[louisa05]

Charles still controlled the money. Both parents made decisions about schools, etc...In the doc for Charles’s 70th, both sons talked about him as a father including stuff like teaching them respect for the environment and values like that. It’s a stretch to say they never patented. The boys no longer had a nanny at the time their mother died. And they spent a lot of time at Balmoral where the royals are extremely informal and do manny things for themselves to the shock of most guests. It’s also unfair to blame Charles and Diana for having demanding jobs. They’re not the first or last parents to have that difficulty and that’s not about social class. 
Harry’s life growing up absolutely was different than a middle class child. But that’s not because middle class parents aren’t busy working and such. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

You may be on teamMeghan but they are both terrible  and fake ass and  in different ways so I am on teamSTFU for both:)

You raise good discussion points and then you come out with stuff like this. Nothing Harry and Meghan have done has made them terrible people. I save the word terrible for people who actually deserve it - like Prince Andrew or Prince Michael. Those are terrible people who have made terrible decisions that have serious ramifications. Harry and Meghan have done a lot of thoughtless, contradicting things but I wouldn't say they're terrible and fake. 

Especially Harry - if anything, he is too real and needs to learn how to hone a public persona. 

[louisa05]

I randomly came across this article yesterday. It’s about how children who lose a parent can idealize the deceased one and then resent the remaining one. Harry seems to be stuck in that pattern as well. And a decent therapist would recognize that and help him work through it. Link: http://thewisdomdaily.com/idealizing-deceased-parent/?fbclid=IwAR0BhQh-niljNEjokUHdwAtd8I7BlLl2ZKVz04QB7Gl08BliVvbcYx7Lysk

[tabitha2]

He had therapy so it either was not tailored appropriately  for him or he was not open to it working for him. If a person truly doesn't want heal and become mentally/emotionally healthy they won’t and sometimes they just enjoy being the victim too much. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I randomly came across this article yesterday. It’s about how children who lose a parent can idealize the deceased one and then resent the remaining one. Harry seems to be stuck in that pattern as well. And a decent therapist would recognize that and help him work through it. Link: http://thewisdomdaily.com/idealizing-deceased-parent/?fbclid=IwAR0BhQh-niljNEjokUHdwAtd8I7BlLl2ZKVz04QB7Gl08BliVvbcYx7Lysk

Yep, yep, yep.  Take this for what it's worth as an internet rando, but I've struggled with this most of my adult life and see it in Harry.  In my case both parents died, but I definitely idealized one and resented the other based not on logic but pure primal infantile feelings.  It's why I feel so bad for him whenever he talks about his mom, because I get it....it's also why he should knock it off because holy shit if I'm cringing I can't imagine how badly this is coming off to people who don't have those particular demons.

 

1 hour ago, DalmatianCat said:

I definitely understand his desire to reflect on his upbringing and what he wants to do differently (just as I think his parents tried desperately to do better than their parents they just had a lot going against them), but he doesn’t seem to have grasped the concept of “things you share with your therapist vs. things you share with the media”.

Absolutely this.  And if he was smart he'd hire a PR firm that will constantly remind him of this. 

 

1 hour ago, DalmatianCat said:

From this type of American perspective, I’m curious as to how much parenting influence either Charles or Diana would have had with the boys after they went to boarding school at 8 and if all their visits home were full of fun and treats and not the more typical “boring” aspects of parenting.

As a middle class American kid who went to boarding school (albeit only for high school) this was my experience.   It absolutely changed the dynamic between my parents and that was pretty universal from my classmates experiences as well.  

[viii]

I don't think it's fair to speculate on the journey of Harry's therapy. We have no idea of the progress he has made. It might seem like none to an outside eye, but for all we know, he has come leaps and bounds. 

[tabitha2]

As  Harry is feeling qualified and is oh so “knowledgeably”  using serious concepts trying to diagnose a whole bunch of other people and let all and sundry know about the alleged demons and mental health problems of pretty much his entire paternal family and very possibly doing more harm to very gullible followers by doing so I have no problem talking about his mental health journey and issues. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

As  Harry is feeling qualified and is oh so “knowledgeably”  using serious concepts trying to diagnose a whole bunch of other people and let all and sundry know about the alleged demons and mental health problems of pretty much his entire paternal family and very possibly doing more harm to very gullible followers by doing so I have no problem talking about his mental health journey and issues. 

I think it's a fair point to say we don't know if he got anything out of therapy as we don't know what he'd be like without it.  

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

If a person truly doesn't want heal and become mentally/emotionally healthy they won’t and sometimes they just enjoy being the victim too much. 

I have had a moderate amount of therapy over the years, and in my experience it is not that simple. Mental health care is not a simple "cure". 

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

As  Harry is feeling qualified and is oh so “knowledgeably”  using serious concepts trying to diagnose a whole bunch of other people and let all and sundry know about the alleged demons and mental health problems of pretty much his entire paternal family and very possibly doing more harm to very gullible followers by doing so I have no problem talking about his mental health journey and issues. 

Then please try to avoid over generalizing about mental health, and mental health care yourself. 

[just_ordinary]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If that's what he's trying to claim he needs to stfu right now.  

Why? Maybe the term or rather how I translate it into my language mean something different from where you are from? Because from my perspective he is not wrong to claim it generally. His grandparents generation is highly influenced by WWII, the rationing, a very formal (often enough called emotionally neglected and physically abusive) upbringing. There is a reason we have the term „black education” as a keyword in the educational sciences in our discourse. Adding their personal traumas in terms of loosing parents, extreme pressure and being basically homeless (more in an emotional way but honestly he was completely dependent on the well meaning of distant relatives). This type of distant children-parent relationship drip down and while every generation does things differently, some effects can still be seen today. 
But if your definition means something else, that would be an interesting point. 
I am sure his upbringing wasn’t rosy. Fighting, distant parents, very much caught up in their own tragedies and sticking out like a sore thumb thanks to you being royal. And then the whole trauma around his mother’s death. I get it. And the fact that he has been on and off therapy for years now, says it all. Reflecting on your own upbringing and deciding to do things differently is done by millions of parents all the time. And most accomplish to maintain a respectful and loving relationship with their families while doing so.
But why, for the live of god, is he still bashing on about it? Again. And again. And getting more and more personal each time. It started with the press, went to the grey suits, than the BRF and an hidden racist in their midst and now the scope is on the late DoE and his father. That has nothing to do with unresolved trauma, it’s payback and the realisation that it’s the only thing people want to hear from him. 
A look at the program showed me lots of crying faces. Sorry, but if it’s a “people breaking down about their break down” it is really not cool. Somewhat exaggerated it’s exactly why people say Americans are overly theatrical and full of drama. Opening up about mental health is important and there great programs but that’s for sure not my cup of tea. It’s plain voyeurism. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by just_ordinary

[tabitha2]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I have had a moderate amount of therapy over the years, and in my experience it is not that simple. Mental health care is not a simple "cure". 

Then please try to avoid over generalizing about mental health, and mental health care yourself. 

I know you have to want help and to help yourself before healing can start. That’s fact not over generalization. 

[louisa05]

35 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Why? Maybe the term or rather how I translate it into my language mean something different from where you are from? Because from my perspective he is not wrong to claim it generally. His grandparents generation is highly influenced by WWII, the rationing, a very formal (often enough called emotionally neglected and physically abusive) upbringing. There is a reason we have the term „black education” as a keyword in the educational sciences in our discourse. Adding their personal traumas in terms of loosing parents, extreme pressure and being basically homeless (more in an emotional way but honestly he was completely dependent on the well meaning of distant relatives). This type of distant children-parent relationship drip down and while every generation does things differently, some effects can still be seen today. 
But if your definition means something else, that would be an interesting point. 
I am sure his upbringing wasn’t rosy. Fighting, distant parents, very much caught up in their own tragedies and sticking out like a sore thumb thanks to you being royal. And then the whole trauma around his mother’s death. I get it. And the fact that he has been on and off therapy for years now, says it all. Reflecting on your own upbringing and deciding to do things differently is done by millions of parents all the time. And most accomplish to maintain a respectful and loving relationship with their families while doing so.
But why, for the live of god, is he still bashing on about it? Again. And again. And getting more and more personal each time. It stated with the press, went to the grey suits, than the BRF and an hidden racist in their midst and now the scope is on the late DoE and his father. That has nothing to do with unresolved trauma it’s payback and the realisation that is the only thing people want to hear from him. 
A look at the program showed me lots of crying faces. Sorry, but if it’s a “people breaking down about their break down” it really not cool. Somewhat exaggerated it’s exactly why people say Americans are overly theatrical and full of drama. Opening up about mental health is important and there great programs but that’s for sure not my cup of tea. It plain voyeurism. 

Generational trauma by its psychological definition comes from experiences of severe situations like the Holocaust and other genocides, slavery, the loss of culture related to colonialism, natives in North America being forced on to reservations...

Living in the lap of royal luxury isn’t a cause. Having distant parents isn’t a cause. The Queen herself did not have distant parents. Not at all particularly in her early years before the abdication. She had a happy childhood in a close family. Philip definitely had a difficult childhood but he wasn’t a survivor of the kind of trauma that causes generational consequences.  
I also believe that she and Philip deserve a break on the type of parents they were especially in the early part of her reign when Charles and Anne were young. She was thrown into a very difficult position while grieving the loss of the father she was very close to. She was a young woman in a culture that said women couldn’t lead. She was surrounded by male courtiers and male ministers telling her she had to do things the way they demanded—-which included not making her children a priority at all. It took her awhile to stand up to that. As for Philip—his hopes to return to his naval career were suddenly gone and there was no defined role for him.  He was struggling, too.  Parents under personal stress aren’t always perfect. Whether they’re royal or middle class or in poverty.  And people also need to consider that the way people raise children has changed. My silent generation parents were raised very different than my Gen x brother and me. Things change.