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[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 31: Charged on 2 LaCounts


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The dictionary definition of "incest" if you just google the word states: "sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other; the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandparent." So that would cover both "consensual" and non-consensual incest. English currently doesn't have another word for the crime of sexual abuse between family members. "Inbreeding" is usually used for when the incestuous relationship produces children, and "consanguinophilia" (which Wikipedia offers as a synonym for incest) to me comes across as too jargony.

A consensual relationship between two first cousins is incestuous. There's no way around that. Equally, what Josh did to his sisters is incestuous abuse. There's no way around that either. I can understand the frustration with how imprecise English can be at times, but "incest" is the correct word.

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On 5/13/2021 at 5:41 PM, onekidanddone said:

How do y’all think jury selection will play out? 

Finding people who 

  • Don’t know or at least know about the Duggars in that part of Arkansas
  • Have at least heard of 19Kac
  • Aren't in some way tied to JB locally as I think he owns and rents out lots of property out that way 

Is JB shady enough to get some the  jury on the take and attempt jury tampering?

 

We discussed this in a previous thread. The Duggars are not as well known or connected as people think they are and JimBob not a major financial player.  They are basically in the company town/region for Walmart and a couple other large national corporations. The Duggars are not big local celebrities. My mom lived a few miles from the Duggars for years due to her job and barely knows who they are. It is also a large enough area with enough large and small cities that I seriously doubt that JimBob’s real estate holdings would be significant. 

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55 minutes ago, Cults-r-us said:

If you want a deal on a car, you want a deal on a car. You don't care if the car lot guy has a perv brother. Maybe it will inspire the Duggars to make better car and other business deals.

Actually, if I lived in NW Arkansas, I wouldn't step foot on their car lot property. Would you?

There are lots of places to buy used cars. People who are disgusted by pedophilia (in other words, most people) would not want to support it. They can easily choose a different car lot.

It's not like your child has a brain tumor and Josh is the best neurosurgeon in the area. There are lots of places to buy cars. 

4 hours ago, Candycane36 said:

 This is an Unpopular oppuon, but I believe the real person who runs the shots and wears the pants is Michelle , not JimBob. 

I think this would be great, if it's true. It would show that their patriarchy is not as powerful as it seems. People often say "Michelle wears the pants" as though it's a bad thing, like she was pushy or bossy. I HOPE she is pushy and controlling and that more of the women in their cult copy her behavior.

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13 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

He likes Anna because of her loyalty, their shared history, her joyful availability and she keeps his parents happy. He likes the Mkids because they are likable.

We have no idea if Anna was "joyfully available" or not.  Frankly, I hope she wasn't. I hope she honored her anger and disgust and pushed him away. But none of us can know.

Just because she belongs to a cult that promotes this, for all we know, she laughs the idea with her women friends.

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18 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

We have no idea if Anna was "joyfully available" or not.  Frankly, I hope she wasn't. I hope she honored her anger and disgust and pushed him away. But none of us can know.

Just because she belongs to a cult that promotes this, for all we know, she laughs the idea with her women friends.

Are you proposing this as a hypothetical?

Or do you think she did the deed on schedule and due to very blessed fertility got pregnant 3 more times since 2015...to keep the game afoot? Then she's running to all her friends who will think its hilarious that she's not into this whole fundie wife thing?

I find the idea that she was joyful about sex with Josh fairly repulsive. However, she's never given any reason to indicate she's less than joyful about her life and her babies. So something that's the total opposite, like you propose..isn't probable. And when you make these suggestions I have to think you aren't reading the room very well.

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18 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I find the idea that she was joyful about sex with Josh fairly repulsive.

Sex with Josh is all she knows...she was allegedly a virgin when she got married.

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3 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Sex with Josh is all she knows...she was allegedly a virgin when she got married.

Yeah, exactly. So the op's post seems even more disingenuous.

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25 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Are you proposing this as a hypothetical?

Marry me.

But yes, I think it's as valid a hypothetical in the post above it hoping Michelle is some kind of behind the scenes feminist icon that the other wives should emulate.

I think the technical word for this is shit stirring, if I'm not mistaken.

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1 hour ago, Anna Bolinas said:

A consensual relationship between two first cousins is incestuous. There's no way around that. Equally, what Josh did to his sisters is incestuous abuse. There's no way around that either. I can understand the frustration with how imprecise English can be at times, but "incest" is the correct word.

Many countries and close to half the U.S.states allow cousin marriage, so the incest label there seems situational. 

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9 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Marry me.

But yes, I think it's as valid a hypothetical in the post above it hoping Michelle is some kind of behind the scenes feminist icon that the other wives should emulate.

I think the technical word for this is shit stirring, if I'm not mistaken.

I can only call one officially a day.. (see cd) . I've still only been back a week...I'm trying to use tactful words ?

Remember when we were going to get that guillotine? I still volunteer for FJ guillotine assisting duties.

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48 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Are you proposing this as a hypothetical?

Or do you think she did the deed on schedule and due to very blessed fertility got pregnant 3 more times since 2015...to keep the game afoot? Then she's running to all her friends who will think its hilarious that she's not into this whole fundie wife thing?

I find the idea that she was joyful about sex with Josh fairly repulsive. However, she's never given any reason to indicate she's less than joyful about her life and her babies. So something that's the total opposite, like you propose..isn't probable. And when you make these suggestions I have to think you aren't reading the room very well.

Maybe you misunderstood me. I'm saying that we have no idea whether Anna was joyfully available or not, because we weren't there.

I'm not saying it's *good* to be joyfully available (frankly, I think it's a destructive idea).

I suspect she just put up with it, because inwardly she is so furious at Josh.

But "joyful"? It's hard to imagine being joyful in that situation--the husband who cheated on you demanding his right to your body.

After spending your day caring for six small children, then scanning the Covenant Eyes report about your husband, then wondering why he is at the car lot so late.  . . and then offering your body to him as his "right". . . .yeah, I can't imagine she'd be "joyful."

 

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2 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I can only call one officially a day.. (see cd) . I've still only been back a week...I'm trying to use tactful words ?

Remember when we were going to get that guillotine? I still volunteer for FJ guillotine assisting duties.

We never got the votes for beheadings, we needed to campaign better.  This is all I'm allowed ...

 

 

download (19).png

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15 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

As we have been discussing nature vs nurture I looked for a study I had read about signs on psychopathy in brain scans and although this isn't the one I was looking for it's interesting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933872/

The study I was looking for was done by a doctor who said the results of his study showed he himself was predisposed to psychopathy, but he was non-violent and not involved in criminal acts so his theory is that some people with the predisposition will become psychopaths (current terminology Antisocial Personality Disorder) and others can develop functional emotions even with the pre-disposition if raised in a healthy environment where compassion is modeled, taught, and expected.

He said he could see predisposition by brain scans, as referenced in the article I linked above.  Their brains don't respond to horrific images the way typical people do.

Still looking for the link, but if anyone knows what I'm talking about and can link me I'd appreciate it.

Found it:  https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

(if the article I linked above is valid I am definitely not a psychopath, I have a hyper startle reflex to the point it's an actual problem for me at work.)

This reminds me of Riverdale. They have one kid from a serial killer dad who isn't, one kid who is the atepkid of the serial killer dad who is but wasn't raised with them anyway, etc. It's quite the mess of a show but this part intrigues me from seeing family dynamics from people I knew growing up and how they've turned out, too. Then you have something like this family where they are all trained to be "happy" and "Godly"and in everything they do but yet end up with one disgusting ass pervert then the rest don't seem to be, etc. It's all very interesting in a study type way. Especially since there are so many of them. Why that kid and not the rest, ya know? 

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1 minute ago, Jackie3 said:

Maybe you misunderstood me. I'm saying that we have no idea whether Anna was joyfully available or not, because we weren't there.

I'm not saying it's *good* to be joyfully available (frankly, I think it's a destructive idea).

Bitch please.

I understood you perfectly.

1. It's in the cult vocabulary to be joyfully available to your husband

2. Anna has never ever ever given us any indication that she doesn't stand by her man in every way. She's backed it up with 3 more blessings.

3. You like to use the straw man type logic that we don't KNOW anything for certain because we only see what the social media says or tv says. That's true. That and the cult.

4. You can't be here and agree with us that you know how the cult works and how all of this works but that secretly nope we don't know for sure.

-People here do know for sure. They've survived said cult.

We aren't psychic. We don't know that Carlin Bates isn't working from the inside with her sisters and the Bates Boutique isn't a secret mission to help abused fundie wives.... We can only operate on FJs years of anecdotal experience from survivors and exmembers.

You're raising provocative questions based on bullshit. I understand perfectly and it will not last much longer.

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13 minutes ago, RainbowSky said:

This reminds me of Riverdale. They have one kid from a serial killer dad who isn't, one kid who is the atepkid of the serial killer dad who is but wasn't raised with them anyway, etc. It's quite the mess of a show but this part intrigues me from seeing family dynamics from people I knew growing up and how they've turned out, too. Then you have something like this family where they are all trained to be "happy" and "Godly"and in everything they do but yet end up with one disgusting ass pervert then the rest don't seem to be, etc. It's all very interesting in a study type way. Especially since there are so many of them. Why that kid and not the rest, ya know? 

Isn't that the show about the Archie comic people?  Is there a serial killer coming after Betty and Veronica?  They'd better not hurt the cat....

Oh wait, that was Josie and the Pussycats that had the cat.  Oh and Funky Fantom....that cat was awesome.  

Seriously is this serial killer contained to the Archie people or do I need to send a rescue team to save Melody (from JATP) and the Scooby gang.

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3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Isn't that the show about the Archie comic people?  Is there a serial killer coming after Betty and Veronica?  They'd better not hurt the cat....

Oh wait, that was Josie and the Pussycats that had the cat.  Oh and Funky Fantom....that cat was awesome.  

Seriously is this serial killer contained to the Archie people or do I need to send a rescue team to save Melody (from JATP) and the Scooby gang.

It's the Archie people lol

And Betty's family I was talking about. 

 

Josie left a while ago and went poof basically.

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, older than allosaurs said:

Many countries and close to half the U.S.states allow cousin marriage, so the incest label there seems situational. 

But again, the word "incest" refers to both consensual and non-consensual situations. So those marriages, which may be perfectly legal, can still be described as "incestuous" in the sense that they are sexual relations between relatives. I suppose one could describe those marriages as consanguineous, if one wanted to avoid the negative connotations of the word "incest," but "incest" still applies.

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

I think this would be great, if it's true. It would show that their patriarchy is not as powerful as it seems. People often say "Michelle wears the pants" as though it's a bad thing, like she was pushy or bossy. I HOPE she is pushy and controlling and that more of the women in their cult copy her behavior.

 Meh, I don't think perpetuating the idea that women are really the ones pulling the strings behind every evil institution is quite the take that to patriarchy. If anything, it strikes me as similar to the whole "Eve brought sin into the world" idea. Men are never responsible for anything and women are actually the ones who secretly run the world and cause all the problems. I know the whole "man is the head, woman is the neck" thing can be a valid critique, since women can and do perpetuate oppressive institutions, but I roll my eyes at the idea that Jim Bob is just dancing to Michelle's tune when he was more religious than she was when they first met. I've said this before on here, but if anything, they are equal partners in this whole mess.

If Michelle really wanted to be a cool patriarchy destroyer, she would've Gone Girl'd Jim Bob's ass 17 kids ago. 

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Isn't that the show about the Archie comic people?  Is there a serial killer coming after Betty and Veronica? 

Never seen the whole show, but yes, it is the Archie comics, and (spoilers I guess) Betty's father is the serial killer. 

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4 hours ago, Anna Bolinas said:

The dictionary definition of "incest" if you just google the word states: "sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other; the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandparent." So that would cover both "consensual" and non-consensual incest. English currently doesn't have another word for the crime of sexual abuse between family members. "Inbreeding" is usually used for when the incestuous relationship produces children, and "consanguinophilia" (which Wikipedia offers as a synonym for incest) to me comes across as too jargony.

A consensual relationship between two first cousins is incestuous. There's no way around that. Equally, what Josh did to his sisters is incestuous abuse. There's no way around that either. I can understand the frustration with how imprecise English can be at times, but "incest" is the correct word.

(emphasis added)

Not in all jurisdictions, such as Australia.  (Australia's marriage laws seem bizarre to me cos you can legally marry an aunt, uncle, niece, or nephew. what.)

edit: I see I was beaten by the allosaurs

Edited by CyborgKin
cos I didn't read the whole page before posting sorry
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11 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

But I also wonder what JB actually said.

https://www.krqe.com/news/report-jim-bob-duggar-ran-on-platform-that-incest-rape-should-be-punishable-by-death/

Quote

 

“Q: What is your abortion position, and specifically, where do you stand on rape, incest and threat to a mother’s health?”

“A: If a woman is raped, the rapist should be executed instead of the innocent unborn baby. Adoption is an option. Many couples would love to adopt and are waiting for a baby. Abortion has been and always will be the destruction of an innocent child. Rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes. The developing infant committed no crime and should be allowed to live.”

 

 

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On 5/12/2021 at 1:55 AM, Jackie3 said:

8. Jim Bob couldn't figure out why he had lost the election, and came up with the idea that it was because of Josh and his porn use.

I think I would have pissed myself if I hadn't gone to the bathroom before logging in. 

He is delusional.

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4 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I think I would have pissed myself if I hadn't gone to the bathroom before logging in. 

He is delusional.

JB is still delusional,  but this whole sin in the camp thing was about Jim Holt losing his election, not Jim Bob's.

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9 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

Bitch please.

I understood you perfectly.

1. It's in the cult vocabulary to be joyfully available to your husband

2. Anna has never ever ever given us any indication that she doesn't stand by her man in every way. She's backed it up with 3 more blessings.

3. You like to use the straw man type logic that we don't KNOW anything for certain because we only see what the social media says or tv says. That's true. That and the cult.

4. You can't be here and agree with us that you know how the cult works and how all of this works but that secretly nope we don't know for sure.

-People here do know for sure. They've survived said cult.

We aren't psychic. We don't know that Carlin Bates isn't working from the inside with her sisters and the Bates Boutique isn't a secret mission to help abused fundie wives.... We can only operate on FJs years of anecdotal experience from survivors and exmembers.

You're raising provocative questions based on bullshit. I understand perfectly and it will not last much longer.

Why on earth is it somehow some big offense to speculate that a woman in a marriage with a clearly extremely flawed husband may be appearing happier in her marriage than she actually is? That having sex with her husband might be triggering, or she might resent it, or tries to avoid sex, without appearing to avoid sex (oh, the baby is crying- oh, sorry, I promised your sister I’d go pick up her kid right now, oh, sorry, M3 has a fever, let me check on him)  if her husband was cheating on her? Personally, I think she’s wanted him to stay, and after the initial shock of the affairs wore off, tripled down on being happy with him - but I don’t really know. 
No matter what their cult preaches, people are still people.

All we do here, all day, every day is speculate and discuss. Why is it weird to wonder if Anna is more angst torn than she appears, or is just going through the motions? I’m sure we all know people in real life whose social media portrayals are much more smiling and happy and clean than the reality. 

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28 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Why on earth is it somehow some big offense to speculate that a woman in a marriage with a clearly extremely flawed husband may be appearing happier in her marriage than she actually is? That having sex with her husband might be triggering, or she might resent it, or tries to avoid sex, without appearing to avoid sex (oh, the baby is crying- oh, sorry, I promised your sister I’d go pick up her kid right now, oh, sorry, M3 has a fever, let me check on him)  if her husband was cheating on her? Personally, I think she’s wanted him to stay, and after the initial shock of the affairs wore off, tripled down on being happy with him - but I don’t really know. 
No matter what their cult preaches, people are still people.

All we do here, all day, every day is speculate and discuss. Why is it weird to wonder if Anna is more angst torn than she appears, or is just going through the motions? I’m sure we all know people in real life whose social media portrayals are much more smiling and happy and clean than the reality. 

Not Alice, but I think the issue wasn't the speculation but the general tone which read like combativeness for the sake of it.  Of course we don't know what she's thinking, none of us do, but if we're not supposed to discuss unless we know something for a fact then we need to leave the internets to only fundy confidants.

That it came amongst posts from the same poster about how she hopes Michelle is running things behind the scenes and that other fundy women emulate her....like it's progressive if a woman is the one covering up child sexual abuse, limiting her children's opportunities to be self supporting, instilling shame and the normalizing of sexual urges toward children ...instead of seeing it as the danger it is regardless of who calls the shots.

Fwiw I've always thought Michelle wore the pants in that relationship in every way but literally and he was a very willing accomplice because he got to be a controlling figurehead.  I never thought she managed the financials though, I think that's all JB.

But of course I don't know them, so who knows.  Just how it appears to me, but I don't think if I'm right and Michelle is the dictator in chief it's a good thing and more women should jump on board and oppress children.

But there is a different between a discussion about how this is seen and someone just issuing edicts about how if we don't know what they're thinking we should assume their thoughts are healthy because we have no evidence to believe that.

If people choose to present themselves as the face of a cult extolling it's virtues to the public then it's reasonable to believe they're high on Kool-Aid and it boarders on fanfic to assume there are actually empowering ideas and actions behind the scenes.

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11 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Sex with Josh is all she knows...she was allegedly a virgin when she got married.

Remember? They had conjugal visits in Jebus rehab and she seemed so happy life with Josh was reparable.

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