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[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 31: Charged on 2 LaCounts


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Marionette
6 hours ago, zimona said:

This^^^^

What really stuck with me after listening to the 1st episode, was all that talk about "Satan attacking". Justin (and his wife) explained in great lengths the fundie-mindset that might have been prevalent in Josh, JB, and others in the church, when Josh was disciplined for his "porn-problem" (more likely the molestations). 

Justin explains, that due to Josh being the golden child, and "reeking of destiny" (as he put it), this "Satan attack" will most likely have been viewed as some distinction or a "badge of honour". Meaning, that the attack (and the "serverity" of it) shows Josh being "chosen" for a "greater destiny", so Satan considers him 'important' enough to severely attack him (and thus God's plans with Josh). This will most likely have been also prevalent in Josh's thinking. So the church discipline in this context was yet another "distinction", and I think it's quite possible that this train of thought might have helped him to get through this. This also explains to me why nothing changed afterwards and Josh just carried on as he did before and got deeper and deeper into the quagmire. When "being under attack" is not your fault, there's no reason to change your behaviour, right?

To me this again shows the degree of mental gymnastics that are happening in those circles in order to ward off cognitive dissonances or doubts or whatever.

It also shows that "personal responsibilty" for your actions is not a concept that is held high in those circles. Everything and anything is externalized and pinned either on God (the good stuff, but also God 'testing' you) or Satan (attack, temptation). Having grown up in a fundie environment myself I kind of know this mechanism to a lesser degree out of my own experience. It was only by externalizing all that stuff, esp. the undesirable stuff, that made the pressure of having to be 'perfect' somewhat bearable.

This is not to defend Josh and his actions, it's rather an attempt to look behind the surface and find some possible answers to "how could this happen?" and "why did this end up (had to end up?) in such a mess?"

Completely agree, this was my experience growing up IFB. No real accountability, cause if you were saved, you were already forgiven by God, and Satan was trying to attack you because God.

What is the podcast called again? Might have to give it a listen after reading some of y’all’s recaps. 

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Really? I just spent 2 hours listening to the podcast. He and his wife came across as sincere, thoughtful, and very introspective about their life growing up in fundie families. Only about 30 minutes

A tweet I saw posted on FB that I feel is relevant to fundie thinking 

I know we’ve kind of gotten away from the discussion about Catholicism and its traditions and rituals, but I was still too torn up to discuss this in the last thread, so I will put this out here now.

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fundiefriday
9 minutes ago, Marionette said:

What is the podcast called again? Might have to give it a listen after reading some of y’all’s recaps.

It's called "I pray you put this journal away".  

I enjoyed the podcast as well and I'd definitely recommend it.

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Galbin

Jacob Wilson, who grew up in fundie-land posted a short video today. His father used to be the Duggars' pastor, and he said JB was a like a father to him. He has some choice words/advice for JB. Interesting.

Also, are fist-fights common in their culture? :)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO0WKyHF62m/?igshid=r9ljs3tt7y5c&fbclid=IwAR1ZfplFqkbUljPeAMFpdBVFo510wROsUDoImzDq9L0xUDUVnUW7T_MAUFs

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purple_summer

I have to admit, it’s always entertaining to see posters try to explain different concepts within fundamentalism. It’s so ingrained in you, it feels like someone explaining water or breathing 😂

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quiversR4hunting
15 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

How do y’all think jury selection will play out? 

Finding people who 

  • Don’t know or at least know about the Duggars in that part of Arkansas
  • Have at least heard of 19Kac
  • Aren't in some way tied to JB locally as I think he owns and rents out lots of property out that way 

Is JB shady enough to get some the  jury on the take and attempt jury tampering?

I think there will be plenty of people that have no idea who they are; they are famous here but in my real life friends/family most know very little about them besides that big family that was once on tv. No, I don't think JB is shady enough for jury tampering. 

10 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Clark Wilson’s son just got done leaving a video calling out Josh... He says his dad was JB’s pastor and says JB needs to stop taking up for Josh. WOACB posted his video on her YouTube. I know people don’t like her but I find the video she posted of Clark’s son calling out JB for supporting Josh interesting.

Oh, I had forgotten about Clark Wilson. On the specials about the house being built I always figured Clark was being taken advantage of by JB. JB reminds me of a family real estate company I worked for 20+ years ago. The son (in his 40s at the time) and dad (in his 60s at the time) would get "favors" from every contractor they knew, some of their "deals" with who they called friends were totally one sided. I left because of the swarminess of their dealings. Nothing ever illegal but totally taking advantage of everyone. 

15 minutes ago, Galbin said:

Jacob Wilson, who grew up in fundie-land posted a short video today. His father used to be the Duggars' pastor, and he said JB was a like a father to him. He has some choice words/advice for JB. Interesting.

Also, are fist-fights common in their culture? :)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO0WKyHF62m/?igshid=r9ljs3tt7y5c&fbclid=IwAR1ZfplFqkbUljPeAMFpdBVFo510wROsUDoImzDq9L0xUDUVnUW7T_MAUFs

Jim Bob is a complete enabler of Josh and has created co-dependency relationships with many of his children. More and more dysfunction of all the family members will continue to show up (if they stay in the public eye we will see it). 

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Cam
Posted (edited)

My husband would have no clue about anything Duggar. Neither would my adult son. I know a lot of people who are clueless about them. 

Things have transitioned away from cable TV since the advent of X Number of Kids and Counting. These days, most young adults I know living on their own don’t subscribe to cable. They prefer the streaming channels like Netflix, HBO Max and Hulu and so many others arriving on the scene. We canceled our extended cable years ago for this reason, so no TLC for me, why pay for what I don’t/won’t watch. 

So, with all the streaming stuff, there’s more viewing variety, people go elsewhere for entertainment and new viewers don’t tune in because their attention is elsewhere.

Some of the younger generation don’t even own televisions, they watch stuff on laptops or phones. The height of Duggar-dom seemed to hit just before the decline of cable. 

 

Edited by Cam
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Giraffe
21 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

JB reminds me of a family real estate company I worked for 20+ years ago. The son (in his 40s at the time) and dad (in his 60s at the time) would get "favors" from every contractor they knew, some of their "deals" with who they called friends were totally one sided. I left because of the swarminess of their dealings. Nothing ever illegal but totally taking advantage of everyone. 

This is exactly the kind of thing I’m convinced JB does constantly. Completely unethical but just close enough to legal that he can’t be charged with anything. I had a “good Christian” relative like this and it was rage inducing that he got away with so much abuse towards others!

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Mama Mia
8 minutes ago, Cam said:

My husband would have no clue about anything Duggar. Neither would my adult son. I know a lot of people who are clueless about them. 

Things have transitioned away from cable TV since the advent of X Number of Kids and Counting. These days, most young adults I know living on their own don’t subscribe to cable. They prefer the streaming channels like Netflix, HBO Max and Hulu and so many others arriving on the scene. We canceled our extended cable years ago for this reason, so no TLC for me, why pay for what I don’t/won’t watch. 

So, with all the streaming stuff, there’s more viewing variety, people go elsewhere for entertainment and new viewers don’t tune in because their attention is elsewhere.

Some of the younger generation don’t even own televisions, they watch stuff on laptops or phones. The height of Duggar-dom seemed to hit just before the decline of cable. 

 

That’s true, about shows in general,  except when it comes to something like this. Where everyone being bombarded with news clickbait every time you scroll a screen for 2 seconds means it’s almost impossible to not have at least seen that smirking mug shot and a headline about “former reality show sex pest charged with CP!”

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Cam
11 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Yes, it's downright Shakespearean

image.thumb.png.fbe0ac4ae92f4f7e9c6a4e51af51ad6d.png

Hahahaha! 

This philosophy could potentially lend itself to an M name for Anna and Josh to consider: MacBeth

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Howl
1 hour ago, Galbin said:

Jacob Wilson, who grew up in fundie-land posted a short video today.

Here's what really caught my attention in that Jacob Wilson's video.  He was cursing Gothard.  He said he was counseled by Gothard as a young boy (age 7?) and he found Gothard to be incredibly creepy, even at that tender age.

I thought Jacob's implication was clearly that Gothard was creepy in a sexual way, but maybe Gothard just exuded general creepiness. 

We all know that Gothard has a fetish/obsession with teen girls with a certain "look" --  both in their attractiveness and how they styled their hair/clothes.  I've never read anything that implied that Gothard was also sexually attracted to boys.  Has anyone come across this anywhere?

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Cam
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

That’s true, about shows in general,  except when it comes to something like this. Where everyone being bombarded with news clickbait every time you scroll a screen for 2 seconds means it’s almost impossible to not have at least seen that smirking mug shot and a headline about “former reality show sex pest charged with CP!”

Meh. You get clickbait for things related to what you peruse online. The clickbait that shows up for my husband is entirely different from mine—we use our own electronic devices. If he ever got anything Duggar, no matter how horrendous, it would be completely tuned out by him, wouldn’t even register, scroll right past. Rock Hall of Fame stories would be more his clickbait. He would never be interested in watching Entertainment Tonight. Since we don’t have extended cable, there’s no CNN, MSNBC, FOX or other cable news outlets spewing out celebrity headlines in our living room. Our viewing of ABC, NBC or CBS news is very sporadic. We are more likely to watch Mike and Molly reruns.

My son will get clickbait related to LetterKenny. Niece will get stuff on Billie Eilish. Really, lots of people have no interest in the Duggars. 

I do, tho! I am not even sure why.

 

 

Edited by Cam
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luv2laugh
2 hours ago, Galbin said:

Jacob Wilson, who grew up in fundie-land posted a short video today. His father used to be the Duggars' pastor, and he said JB was a like a father to him. He has some choice words/advice for JB. Interesting.

Also, are fist-fights common in their culture? :)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO0WKyHF62m/?igshid=r9ljs3tt7y5c&fbclid=IwAR1ZfplFqkbUljPeAMFpdBVFo510wROsUDoImzDq9L0xUDUVnUW7T_MAUFs

You always read my mind! I posted it yesterday.

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Shouldabeenacowboy

Thank you for posting the Jacob Wilson video, @Galbin and @luv2laugh.

Refreshing in a sea of sadness/creepiness.

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ihaveanexamintwodays
12 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

It’s on his public Instagram below. He calls out JB and says he knew Josh was a pervert. Also, no it wasn’t his daughter. Yes, he helped with the house build.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CO0WKyHF62m/?igshid=54hmh719kc8q

That's the Wilson who has a baby with Lundyn (sister of the Howlers' & Bates' friend Logan Smith) right? I can see why they'd find the Duggars' virginity obsession freaky....

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Jinder Roles

His Instagram page is...interesting 

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Jackie3
16 hours ago, Cam said:

Don’t you think the prosecution will float the idea that many, many more private (and salacious) details about the Duggars could potentially surface during a very public trial trying to convince Josh and his lawyers to take a plea deal.

They don't need to do this. Josh will take a plea deal. Why would the prosecution want to avoid trial, anyway? They have all the evidence, and trying Josh Duggar would bring prosecutors lots of attention. They don't need to float anything, the Duggars would love a decent plea deal.

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refugee
15 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

I've seen an idea floating through the twittersphere and tabloids that alleges that 'Anna thinks Biden is behind all this', but I haven't seen any actual source for this rumour and it's just something people keep quoting without checking that it's real.  Does anyone know where this idea got started?  Is this some woacb nonsense?

Sorry if this has already been answered. I saw it in a “news” article in one of those sketchy news-gossip rags, if I’m remembering right. UK, I think? Like the Mirror, maybe.

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hoipolloi

This information on the prevalence of plea bargains in federal criminal cases is quite interesting. 

Josh's legal team has to know this stuff. Also, it sure looks like "not guilty" will be changing to something else.

Quote

 

Trials are rare in the federal criminal justice system – and acquittals are even rarer. Trials are rare in the federal criminal justice system, and when they happen, most end in convictionsNearly 80,000 people were defendants in federal criminal cases in fiscal 2018, but just 2% of them went to trial. The overwhelming majority (90%) pleaded guilty instead, while the remaining 8% had their cases dismissed, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data collected by the federal judiciary.

Put another way, only 320 of 79,704 total federal defendants – fewer than 1% – went to trial and won their cases, at least in the form of an acquittal, according to the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.

 

 

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AreYouThereGothard?

Maybe a little OT, but anyone remember the Willis Clan? The dad was arrested for CSA 5 odd years ago and it came out that he molested his daughters. The family’s response is more reasonable than anything Ma and Pa Duggar released

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tennessean.com/amp/468319001

Spoiler

842F4A55-3079-4CA0-B270-EDA7D0EEAB0A.jpeg.da21f8037b75ab62726823704ea2f4f8.jpeg

The Willises acknowledged the crimes he committed, actually thanked law enforcement and District Attorney for how they handled the case, and recognized the victims and what they’ve gone through. Their show was cancelled and they’re out of the limelight. Granted, this was after his arrest and conviction, but it disgusts me how the Duggar parents’ focus is on “pray for Josh!” when other conservative religious families can acknowledge the wrong-doings of the offender and CSA in their own families. 

The emphasis also seems to be on Josh “making mistakes” instead of how reprehensible CSA is? “Pray for Josh” but no mention of the fact extreme CSA is occurring and being documented, regardless of how it got on his computer. Pro-life, huh?

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libgirl2
6 minutes ago, AreYouThereGothard? said:

Maybe a little OT, but anyone remember the Willis Clan? The dad was arrested for CSA 5 odd years ago and it came out that he molested his daughters. The family’s response is more reasonable than anything Ma and Pa Duggar released

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tennessean.com/amp/468319001

  Reveal hidden contents

842F4A55-3079-4CA0-B270-EDA7D0EEAB0A.jpeg.da21f8037b75ab62726823704ea2f4f8.jpeg

The Willises acknowledged the crimes he committed, actually thanked law enforcement and District Attorney for how they handled the case, and recognized the victims and what they’ve gone through. Their show was cancelled and they’re out of the limelight. Granted, this was after his arrest and conviction, but it disgusts me how the Duggar parents’ focus is on “pray for Josh!” when other conservative religious families can acknowledge the wrong-doings of the offender and CSA in their own families. 

The emphasis also seems to be on Josh “making mistakes” instead of how reprehensible CSA is? “Pray for Josh” but no mention of the fact extreme CSA is occurring and being documented, regardless of how it got on his computer. Pro-life, huh?

Pro-birth, after its born, its fair game. 

I remember the Willis family. How disgusting when it broke. I live in Illinois the dad was the oldest child of nine when in 1994 his parents and six younger siblings were killed in a highway accident (that should never have happened. A lot of sympathy went out to the dad and people were so happy to see them get a show and be doing so well. 

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Danica
On 5/13/2021 at 11:55 AM, Jackie3 said:

You are so brave, and such a good mother. Your kids (especially your stepkid!) is very lucky.

Aw, thx...  You do what you have to do.  I would DIE before I let the kids be in danger.  And, I wasn't going to leave my stepson flapping in the breeze, we had had custody of him for 6 years by that point.

 

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger; I really believe that.

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Bethella
8 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Pro-birth, after its born, its fair game. 

I remember the Willis family. How disgusting when it broke. I live in Illinois the dad was the oldest child of nine when in 1994 his parents and six younger siblings were killed in a highway accident (that should never have happened. A lot of sympathy went out to the dad and people were so happy to see them get a show and be doing so well. 

The parents survived the crash. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-11-20-mn-65246-story.html

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