Katie & Travis 2: Here Comes Yet Another Bates Young Bride

[FrumpyAtheist]

The idea that Travis's family is super wealthy gets brought up on here like established fact all the time so I did some digging using public records easily obtained online. 

That big white house his parents own was purchased for only $380,000 in 2007. That's slightly more than the average American home, but that is not a rich people's house by any means. Tax records also do not show the college they own to be very profitable. I don't know how much they make from their music or other enterprises. And Polo sport is not exactly a hip, expensive, fashion-forward brand these days; that bear sweater is ~$100 or much less at outlet.

I'd consider them upper middle class but not rich by any means. But money and wealth are all relative so I can see how it would seem that way.

[Tangy Bee]

I really never meant to emply that Travis's family is "super wealthy". In the beginning I did call Travis a "young, rich Christian", but as this relationship developed, more info has come out about his family from all over the place. If his family owns the college, his education is probably at a discount. Coming from where I grew up, upper middle class is still considered rich by some. Polo Bear sweat shirts are like buying Gucci for some of us who grew up in the swampy Coastal Plains?

Edited May 15, 2021 by Tangy Bee
wrong spelling

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

I really never meant to emply that Travis's family is "super wealthy". In the beginning I did call Travis a "young, rich Christian", but as this relationship developed, more info has come out about his family from all over the place. If his family owns the college, his education is probably at a discount. Coming from where I grew up, upper middle class is still considered rich by some. Polo Bear sweat shirts are like buying Gucci for some of us who grew up in the swampy Coastal Plains?

I agree I don’t think his family is super wealthy. But compared to most Fundies, they have much more money than most. They live very differently than most fundies on FJ. Most fundies cram a bunch of kids in a small home and thrift much of their clothing. I doubt the Clarks thrift their clothing. I’m sure each of their kids get their own room. Another thing fundies rarely do. And they go to expensive restaurants and fly down to the Florida keys for a proposal. 

[Johannah]

They are extremely wealthy compared to the average fundie family, most of whom live in abject poverty. Middle class is extremely wealthy by their standards. 

I think Travis will graduate in May 2022. He said on the show that he’s going to finish in 3 years. I’m guessing they are waiting until December because of the school break rule and to have time for a honeymoon in early January before classes start again. And also so that Katie will not give birth while he is still a student, which likely would have happened if they’d rushed the wedding and married this spring/early summer instead. 

[Angelface]

1 hour ago, Johannah said:And also so that Katie will not give birth while he is still a student, which likely would have happened if they’d rushed the wedding and married this spring/early summer instead. 

Not convinced that the Clark family are so set on having as many children as possible. Travis is one of three. It’s possible that he will decide on the size of their family (in his headship role) and that that may be a much smaller family than we might be expecting. Perhaps 3-5 children, nicely spaced. This may be something that appeals to Katie after the chaos of her own family. I speculate that Travis and Katie may delay starting a family until they are a little more financially secure and enjoy having some time to get to know each other. I hope that this is what they choose to do.  

[CaptainFunderpants]

21 hours ago, Angelface said:

Not convinced that the Clark family are so set on having as many children as possible. Travis is one of three. It’s possible that he will decide on the size of their family (in his headship role) and that that may be a much smaller family than we might be expecting. Perhaps 3-5 children, nicely spaced. This may be something that appeals to Katie after the chaos of her own family. I speculate that Travis and Katie may delay starting a family until they are a little more financially secure and enjoy having some time to get to know each other. I hope that this is what they choose to do.  

Josie said that's what she and Kelton intended to do, but... Turns out, fundies aren't especially good at the pull-out method.

Unless Katie and Travis are using actual birth control (be it hormones or a barrier method) then not getting pregnant right away will be a tall order, particularly because cycle tracking will fall on Katie and Katie will no doubt have Kelly pressuring her to get pregnant ASAP.

[Mom to Nell]

1 hour ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Josie said that's what she and Kelton intended to do, but... Turns out, fundies aren't especially good at the pull-out method.

Unless Katie and Travis are using actual birth control (be it hormones or a barrier method) then not getting pregnant right away will be a tall order, particularly because cycle tracking will fall on Katie and Katie will no doubt have Kelly pressuring her to get pregnant ASAP.

I would be surprised if the Clark’s didn’t use some form of birth control. Married over 20 years, with only 3?

My experience growing up in an evangelical church and Christian school after 4th grade, most families had 2 to 4 kids, often with 2 to 3 years between births.  At the school there were a lot of Baptist families and I suspect a few were Quiverfull (6 or more with less than 2 years in between and maxi dresses on the girls). Most of those left the school after the hemline was raised to 2 inches above the knee and the rest left after girls could wear pants (early 1970’s). Oh the horror! ?

Hopefully Travis can hold out against the Kelly pressure. After all, it's his decision, not Katie's, right Kelly? The man is the head of the house, blah, blah, blah.

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Mom to Nell said:

I would be surprised if the Clark’s didn’t use some form of birth control. Married over 20 years, with only 3?

And they are each around two years apart. That sounds like some mainstream family spacing to me!

[SassyPants]

I just laugh at all the “chaperoned “ trips these folks take as couples before they tie the knot. My husband and I didn’t really have the time or funds to be traveling across the country before we married. We had FT +jobs and bills(mortgages, cars, tuition (him), student debt(me). 

[theotherelise]

They bought the house in 2010, it was built in 2007 (I mention that because the $380,000 sale price is post bubble bursting).

It's 3500 square feet for a family of 5. Redfin estimates it at $405,000 and Zillow estimates it at $462,000. Not sure about their income, but in my book, that counts as rich! With a sale price of 380k, their monthly inclusive home payment is probably around $2000, so I'd assume they make at least 8,000/month. 

And IDK, the only items of clothing I've ever spent over $100 on were bridesmaids dresses and my wedding dress. Maybe a coat one time. 

Unless they're drowning in debt, they're quite wealthy. 

[OHFL2009]

Travis also bought a house for $72,000 in February. It seems that for a 19 year old student with no discernable income to purchase a house, he would need family support. It looks like he bought it from a neighbor of his parents, and I don't know enough about NJ public records to find if he has a mortgage, but some money had to come from somewhere for him to not only purchase the house, but according to social media, also renovate it, without having ever had a full time job.  

[raayx01]

6 minutes ago, OHFL2009 said:

Travis also bought a house for $72,000 in February. It seems that for a 19 year old student with no discernable income to purchase a house, he would need family support. It looks like he bought it from a neighbor of his parents, and I don't know enough about NJ public records to find if he has a mortgage, but some money had to come from somewhere for him to not only purchase the house, but according to social media, also renovate it, without having ever had a full time job.  

In one of his post it looked like he was getting a new foundation, that's an expensive job. I really want to know how he got the money, because I'm 19 and trying to save for a house, but North Texas is a lot more expensive than NJ

[SassyPants]

A house in NJ for 72k? Sure Jan. Some of these folks have to be playing fast and loose with the tax codes. I’m assuming since he as no income that 1) the home isn’t owned by him or 2) it was bought with someone else’s cash and has no mortgage-

[OHFL2009]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

A house in NJ for 72k? Sure Jan. Some of these folks have to be playing fast and loose with the tax codes. I’m assuming since he as no income that 1) the home isn’t owned by him or 2) it was bought with someone else’s cash and has no mortgage-

It's a 1000 square foot house built in 1960 that he is apparently having to put quite a bit of work into; it last sold for $59,000 in 2010, so $72,000 doesn't seem too far off the mark. In the last 6 months, within the general area, there have been several properties sold with similar size/age for under $100,000. Most were over $100,000, but a lot were in the $100,000-$150,000 range. The Zillow estimate based on local tax assessment plus average amount over tax-assessed value for the area is $81,000. I don't know much about New Jersey real estate, but at first glance it looks like he may have gotten a good price, but not an unreasonable one. The deed is in Travis's name, and Travis's name only, but I don't know NJ public records systems well enough to find mortgage details. 

[HereticHick]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:57 AM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

That’s called a bateau neckline. Meghan Markle loves them. In Lady Colin Campbell’s snooty book about her, one of the many minor violations of clothing rules that she dings Meghan for is that bateau necklines are supposedly a marker of formal evening wear, and yet Meghan wears them in daytime. 

I'm wearing a bateau neck top with jeans right now, in the AM,  like the trashy New World savage I am, and I hope it causes at least 3 members of the British Aristocracy to have coronaries. 

[CanadianMamam]

22 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Josie said that's what she and Kelton intended to do, but... Turns out, fundies aren't especially good at the pull-out method.

Unless Katie and Travis are using actual birth control (be it hormones or a barrier method) then not getting pregnant right away will be a tall order, particularly because cycle tracking will fall on Katie and Katie will no doubt have Kelly pressuring her to get pregnant ASAP.

I am hoping that a taste of the Clark lifestyle will convince Katie she doesn’t want to be popping out babies. That she would prefer being able to enjoy her nice house and nice things and she seems to be closer to the sisters who at least want some kind of spacing than the “pop as many babies as I can” sisters, so that might help too. 

[front hugs > duggs]

20 hours ago, raayx01 said:

but North Texas is a lot more expensive than NJ

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. New Jersey has seriously some of the most expensive real estate in the country. Not only is the Clark family located in a much more rural area of the state, I don't think the $70k he paid for this house is remotely a "norm".

[FrumpyAtheist]

1 hour ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. New Jersey has seriously some of the most expensive real estate in the country. Not only is the Clark family located in a much more rural area of the state, I don't think the $70k he paid for this house is remotely a "norm".

It's not possible to generalize cost of living or real estate for entire states in the U.S., especially those that contain major cities. You can buy a home for 30k in the central valley of California, but the average house price in San Francisco is $1.6 million. Same for NJ and Texas: what part of the state matters a LOT. It's totally useless to generalize about average house costs per state.

[OHFL2009]

1 hour ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. New Jersey has seriously some of the most expensive real estate in the country. Not only is the Clark family located in a much more rural area of the state, I don't think the $70k he paid for this house is remotely a "norm".

I think it really depends on location. I don't think you can lump all of NJ together. I've never lived in NJ or DFW, but out of curiosity I looked at Zillow for both areas (because I'm a data nerd). With stipulations of 3+ bedrooms, 2,000-3,000 sq ft, and max lot size of 2 acres, I looked at the Berlin, NJ area and the Allen, TX area. Both are about the same distance from the nearby major metro area (Philadelphia/Dallas). Screenshots are under spoilers below.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Most houses for sale with those features in the Berlin, NJ area are listed between $200,000-$400,000, with a few outliers (low of $170,000, high of $630,000, but the next highest is only $459,000). In the Allen, TX area, the lowest price is $343,000, with most being over $400,000. So it appears that if you're comparing the area the Clarks live in to a somewhat comparable area in North Texas (in terms of commute to a major city, on the fringes of the suburbs), North Texas is more expensive. If you get into North Jersey, closer to NYC, the property prices increase significantly.

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

It's not possible to generalize cost of living or real estate for entire states in the U.S., especially those that contain major cities. You can buy a home for 30k in the central valley of California, but the average house price in San Francisco is $1.6 million. Same for NJ and Texas: what part of the state matters a LOT. It's totally useless to generalize about average house costs per state.

My parents have lived in the same 3/2 rancher in Inner city Sacramento for 65 years. Now this is not one of the upscale neighborhoods, although it is a well kept cul de sac. The original owner of the house across the cul de sac from my folks just died and her home was sold in 1 day for $550,000. It was a 3/2 rancher and well kept. Average lot size, probably 1/4 acre. An actual house for $30,000 in CA, I find that hard to believe. I’m on the Monterey Bay,  2 blocks from the beach, so no ocean view or anything. My neighbors just sold their 3/3, 35 year old house on a postage stamp lot for 2.1 million. 

 

[eljayem]

14 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

I am hoping that a taste of the Clark lifestyle will convince Katie she doesn’t want to be popping out babies. That she would prefer being able to enjoy her nice house and nice things and she seems to be closer to the sisters who at least want some kind of spacing than the “pop as many babies as I can” sisters, so that might help too. 

I think they will do both. They will have a baby pretty quickly, an announcement within 6 months of the wedding, but they will also space their kids out and only have 2 - 3.

They will have one almost immediately because that seems to be how fundie newlyweds cement their marriage - even Josie and Kelton did despite their both having business aspirations and supposedly discussed delaying family. Katie will be asked "are you pregnant" every time she talks to one of her 19 siblings, and their spouses, and her parents, not to mention his family so it will be daily. I will never forget Jo actually asked Michaela, when she hadn't got pregnant "don't you guys want to be like everyone else and have a baby?".

I hope I'm wrong, I hope she gets a job related to her cosmetology course she's done and gets a few years experience while Travis finishes his education, or even works for Josie remotely flying to and from when needed for photo shoots etc, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[eljayem]

2 hours ago, eljayem said:

I will never forget Jo actually asked Michaela, when she hadn't got pregnant "don't you guys want to be like everyone else and have a baby?".

 

oops meant Kelly

[BeccaGrim]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:03 PM, FrumpyAtheist said:

The idea that Travis's family is super wealthy gets brought up on here like established fact all the time so I did some digging using public records easily obtained online. 

That big white house his parents own was purchased for only $380,000 in 2007. That's slightly more than the average American home, but that is not a rich people's house by any means. Tax records also do not show the college they own to be very profitable. I don't know how much they make from their music or other enterprises. And Polo sport is not exactly a hip, expensive, fashion-forward brand these days; that bear sweater is ~$100 or much less at outlet.

I'd consider them upper middle class but not rich by any means. But money and wealth are all relative so I can see how it would seem that way.

I will also say having lived in NJ for a long time (Not currently) that 380,000 is actually not expensive for NJ.  Your talking about places that generally speaking you can't buy a house for under half a million dollars and even then its really tiny

[January1231]

On 5/18/2021 at 1:55 PM, front hugs > duggs said:

I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. New Jersey has seriously some of the most expensive real estate in the country. Not only is the Clark family located in a much more rural area of the state, I don't think the $70k he paid for this house is remotely a "norm".

I've owned real estate in Berlin township, it's an absolutely reasonable price for a small fixer-upper. While property taxes are high in this area, homes are not.  The homes are actually quite reasonable in that part of Camden County.

21 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

I will also say having lived in NJ for a long time (Not currently) that 380,000 is actually not expensive for NJ.  Your talking about places that generally speaking you can't buy a house for under half a million dollars and even then its really tiny

Most parts of South Jersey are way more reasonable.  It's an area you cant really compare to North Jersey.  In that same area I had a three bedroom single house on 1/3 acre lot with garage and inground pool.  It is only worth about 200k right now.  Property taxes are about 7k a year.

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:08 PM, FrumpyAtheist said:

It's not possible to generalize cost of living or real estate for entire states in the U.S., especially those that contain major cities. You can buy a home for 30k in the central valley of California, but the average house price in San Francisco is $1.6 million. Same for NJ and Texas: what part of the state matters a LOT. It's totally useless to generalize about average house costs per state.

Very true. Even in my city, just a few blocks over will cut about $100,000 off of a house! Sometimes it’s all about the school district. Sometimes it’s all about a certain street that makes you a big wig. But it always seems to come down to location location location.