Jump to content
IGNORED

[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 30: LaCounting On to His Trial Date


choralcrusader8613

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I doubt that she will ever allow the M kids to be examined.  Too many negatives for Anna and Josh.  Why allow her children to have a team of compassionate professionals listen to them.  From blanket training, corporal punishment, to educational neglect, they have more problems in their home than just Josh.

 

She will most likely not have a choice on this. In the cases I had, the judge ordered CAC to interview the children in the home. It will have bearing in the trial and if Josh is found guilty, will be included in the pre-sentencing report. 

Renewing my subscription to LexisNexis as we speak  

 

Edited by amaznmom2u
Spelling
  • Upvote 15
  • I Agree 1
  • Thank You 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, amaznmom2u said:

She will most likely not have a choice on this. In the cases I had, the judge ordered CAC to interview the children in the home. It will have bearing in the trial and if Josh is found guilty, will be included in the pre-sentencing report. 

Renewing my subscription to LexisNexis as we speak  

 

I hope they do that, but I also hope they maintain the privacy of the kids throughout the process.  

  • Upvote 6
  • I Agree 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I never even thought of this. Sadly, I don't think she will divorce him. I think the best we can hope for is a long-term separation in the orbit of the Duggar compound. But a divorce would be pretty satisfying in so many ways. 

Divorce would be good for Anna and certainly the children, IMO. But it would probably also please Josh. I don't think he ever wanted marriage or monogamy. So divorce would let him off the hook, too.

  • Upvote 8
  • Eyeroll 1
  • I Agree 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I hope they do that, but I also hope they maintain the privacy of the kids throughout the process.  

Do you mean not release results to the public as happened in Josh gate 1.0?

The Feds are much better at guarding and redacting exploited minors. They have been doing this for a very very long time. Nothing will be released without the judge's review.  Additionally, because of the nature of the crimes, no live media reporting will be allowed. Safe to say they will be protected from the media, not safe to say they will be protected from doxxing cause people in general suck. 

  • Upvote 7
  • Thank You 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

I seriously doubt it. 

If they really believe Josh is innocent (which I believe they do) that wouldn't happen because they'd be so sure he'd get off or was wrongfully convicted cause Satan. If they're trying to save face and brand (Which they are) this would do the opposite given they've preached no divorce no marriage and persecution. 

It would also require JB to think about the safety and comfort of Anna and the kids and given he put them up in a literal windowless Wearhouse I doubt that's going to happen any time soon. Not to mention divorce - even amicable ones - are expensive as hell and we all know how JB feels about money. 

I'm not sure I think any Duggar currently believes Josh is innocent right now. Previously, Jim Bob and Michelle had a statement calling the raid "fake news" and that it hadn't happened -- obviously a lie, but pretty bold. Now their statement is "the truth, whatever it may be" and even words like "saddened, disgusting" from Jessa and Jinger. That's a far cry from "there was no raid in Bae Sing Se" over to "whatever the truth is...". JB may be willing to pay up but either they know declaring him innocent is a foolish PR move or they don't really think he's innocent. And they're not very clever with PR moves. 

  • Upvote 18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

She is an adult & more importantly, she is a parent with responsibility to her children. They come before Josh, her in-laws, their fucking cult, or anything else. I hope she understands that.

 

This is another point of contention. In their world, the marriage comes first and the children fall in line after that. Her children's needs would never, ever be prioritized over Josh's.

  • Upvote 13
  • Disgust 3
  • Sad 2
  • I Agree 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You don't want people thinking it's unwise to be quiverful because the umbrella will stop covering your kids if this happens....next thing they'll have people limiting their families to where they can provide and women being prepared to work if needed.  That ushers in the end times for them or something, doesn't it?

On that subject, I wonder whether any of the families suckered into the cult by the Duggar "ministry" are having second thoughts about their decisions.

I'd like to see Anna file for divorce (I know, unlikely) and see one or more of Anna's siblings start a GoFundMe for her and the M'kids.  I suspect she'd have enough to live on for a long time.  Also, JB would probably hate it, aside from not having to support another eight people...but I think being publicly disempowered would be good for his soul.

  • Upvote 8
  • I Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, amaznmom2u said:

Anna will believe it is totally her fault for not meeting his every need.

I’m sure she feels like this. I feel so bad for her if she does. 

  • Upvote 4
  • Sad 1
  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m thinking JimBob is trying to think how to spin this.  Obviously, he claims there is no wrongdoing.  But if Josh is  convicted and is sentenced to prison, I could see the Duggar ministry pivot to prison, or make child porn their new focus.  It fits it well with their Q-Anon, pro Trump agenda.

  • Upvote 2
  • Sad 1
  • WTF 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Why would you speculate on who else may be like this on the word of Jim Bob trying to minimize this whole thing?  If there is no evidence to think someone would do that beyond JB it's pretty shitty to make assumptions. 

It's not so much speculation as it is the rules Bill Gothard put in place. Gothard basically created a booklet where a young girl is to blame for assaulting her because of how she dresses and looks. When you dig deeper into the culture that Gothard created there is a great amount of victim shaming. I wouldn't be surprised if other families that have threads on FJ went through a similar situation. If I remember correctly John Shrader, Anna's brother in-law (surprise, surprise), was accused by a user for some form of harassment. A few years ago Gothard got exposed for preying on women. I really think that Josh Duggar getting exposed is just the tip of the iceberg for the horrific abuse that is covered up and hidden within IBLP

  • Upvote 24
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I don’t know if Anna will ever officially divorce him, but I think that step is probably one of the least important.  If she gets to the point that she still, deep down, believes that marriage is for life - BUT - also believes that for the safety of her children, or for her own peace of mind-  they must live apart - that’s ok.
.....[snipped]
Do fundies have annulments? Because I think she’d have a good case. 
 

I don’t know if fundies have annulments, but I rather doubt it.

Separation and annulment are alternatives to divorce only if you accept that some marriages can go bad but believe that the contract of marriage cannot be broken. 

I get the impression that most of the people in Duggarland refuse to consider that a marriage may go bad unless there has been sin, and then the solution is for the sinner to stop sinning.  That supposedly will save the marriage.

If Josh returns to Anna after his (hoped-for) incarceration, she will feel obligated to stay with him, have sex with him, obey him, etc.  Remember that for fundies one of the major purposes of marriage is as a sexual outlet for men.

jmho

  • Upvote 5
  • Disgust 3
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Bethy said:

This is another point of contention. In their world, the marriage comes first and the children fall in line after that. Her children's needs would never, ever be prioritized over Josh's.

Ding ding ding. It’s Jesus first, then Josh, then the children. 

  • Upvote 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I’m thinking JimBob is trying to think how to spin this.  Obviously, he claims there is no wrongdoing.  But if Josh is  convicted and is sentenced to prison, I could see the Duggar ministry pivot to prison, or make child porn their new focus.  It fits it well with their Q-Anon, pro Trump agenda.

Unless there is a lot of money in prison ministry, I can't see Jim-Bob being interested in it. i think they'll just keep quiet about Josh and his transgressions and act like it isn't part of their day-to-day life.

  • Upvote 10
  • I Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

It's not so much speculation as it is the rules Bill Gothard put in place. Gothard basically created a booklet where a young girl is to blame for assaulting her because of how she dresses and looks. When you dig deeper into the culture that Gothard created there is a great amount of victim shaming. I wouldn't be surprised if other families that have threads on FJ went through a similar situation. If I remember correctly John Shrader, Anna's brother in-law (surprise, surprise), was accused by a user for some form of harassment. A few years ago Gothard got exposed for preying on women. I really think that Josh Duggar getting exposed is just the tip of the iceberg for the horrific abuse that is covered up and hidden within IBLP

It is a big risk in these types of communities (it's sadly far too prevalent in all communities) and discussing how this mindset can increase the risks is an important thing to do.  But the way the original post was worded it seemed like you were wondering about specific people.

Increased risk doesn't mean everyone and if someone has never given any indication of being a sexual predator they shouldn't have their name tossed up as a candidate just because they were born into one of these families.  

I think you're right that a lot of abuse is covered up and we don't know, and speculating won't change that.  Sex offenders being held accountable by the justice system will as it will bring these issues to light, in addition to punishing the offender.

 

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just keep thinking of the Morton family and how they handled the scandal of Alan sexually abusing his children, and his wife Katie subsequently divorcing him. Ladies's family and even Alan's sisters who had also married into the Morton family stood by Katie and supported the divorce 100%. Only Alan's parents remained in denial and supported Alan.

Have we heard anything so far from Anna's family? Any public statement from her siblings or parents? The Mortons are also patriarchal fundies, but at least they came out loudly in support of Katie and the kids and did the right thing. I actually think it would be terribly sad for Anna if even her own family doesn't support her and help her leave Josh in this situation. That would be truly abusive and awful even for fundies.

* Katie's not Ladies 

  • Upvote 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Annulment wouldn't be up to "the fundies," but would fall under Arkansas law.  Anna and Josh are WAY passed qualifying for an annulment.

  • Upvote 14
  • I Agree 2
  • Thank You 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FrumpyAtheist said:

I just keep thinking of the Morton family and how they handled the scandal of Alan sexually abusing his children, and his wife Katie subsequently divorcing him. Ladies's family and even Alan's sisters who had also married into the Morton family stood by Katie and supported the divorce 100%. Only Alan's parents remained in denial and supported Alan.

Have we heard anything so far from Anna's family? Any public statement from her siblings or parents? The Mortons are also patriarchal fundies, but at least they came out loudly in support of Katie and the kids and did the right thing. I actually think it would be terribly sad for Anna if even her own family doesn't support her and help her leave Josh in this situation. That would be truly abusive and awful even for fundies.

I picture every wife in fundidom too busy checking their headship's browser histories and hard drives to post anything yet.  

I agree they should come out in support, but I don't expect they will publicly.  I don't think the Keller's are big on social media besides the Shraders and the Wallers, but I don't follow them so I'm not sure. 

With this it's not about supporting Anna or Smuggar, or about supporting marriage at all costs....it's just as simple as do they support CSA or are they opposed to it.  Because if it's the latter your statement is that until there is a hearing and the justice system shows us blah blah we're fully in support of Anna moving home and focusing on her children.  Send prayers or whatever.

At the end of the day do they want their daughter and grandchildren with a monster, or do they want to help them heal?  

Honestly, though, I have a feeling if her dad says something that doesn't agree with JB/M that the Duggar's win with her.  I hope I'm wrong.

  • Upvote 5
  • I Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible that Anna gets so much praise and encouragement for staying with Josh, being the virtuous women, faithful wife, honoring her marriage vows, that it becomes a martyr complex? This CP accusation is a whole different thing to the Ashley Madison scandal but from that she may have even been held up as example to her community - the wronged woman who forgave and acted in a Christ like way. I mean in the nightmare that she is in right now if the only place she is getting any comfort from are people who are praising her for staying it would be hard to leave that.

  • Upvote 12
  • I Agree 6
  • Thank You 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

They really don't teach stuff like selecting a witness in law school. It's more about contracts, torts, civil procedure, real estate transactions, etc. I suppose if you were in moot court you might learn a bit about choosing a witness but it's mostly the sort of thing you learn on the job. So no need to discourage anyone from a particular law school (they mostly teach the same stuff anyway)

Do we know she is parenting her kids? For all we know, she is lying in bed, deeply depressed, and Jana and the youngest girls are taking care of the kids.

You know what? If she was my friend, I would see that as perfectly normal and maybe even necessary. I would pitch in to carry her family while gently helping her get back up hold her head up high face reality and be a saviour for her family. I would do it all with no mention of Jesus no focus on smug and his needs or future. I am no major fan of Anna’s and if she does not leave him she can burn in hell, but the utter fucking disgust of learning or even suspecting your husband of that must be debilitating. Her faith in him can only get her so far and I have trouble believing that she knowing his background could be 100percent on board with him not being guilty. Somewhere in there Anna is suffering big time (I’m not saying anyone has said otherwise) but what she does with that suffering will define her and her children forever. 
The Jesus I believe in wants you to be safe and loved I can’t believe he would judge anyone  for leaving a shit like him and if he does maybe his heaven ain’t worth it. 

  • Upvote 18
  • Thank You 1
  • Love 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two unrelated comments.
 

First - I know there has been question about whether WOACB is legit. Just curious what people think about this -Amy Duggar just put a story on Instagram thanking her for a gift of two mugs. 
 

Second - in the 14 Children and Pregnant Again special Josh appears only briefly because it was during the time when he was in punishment/work recovery. His head is shaved. Does anyone know why that was part of the punishment?

  • Upvote 3
  • Thank You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Freejin said:

Second - in the 14 Children and Pregnant Again special Josh appears only briefly because it was during the time when he was in punishment/work recovery. His head is shaved. Does anyone know why that was part of the punishment?

I can't say for sure, but my educated guess is one of two things:

  1. They were trying to make it like a military/labor camp and that fit the image.
  2. They wanted to humiliate him, because I'm sure he saw himself as Mr. BMOC.
  • Upvote 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Are you saying you are certain a Duggar minor has been sexually abused? Because I believe the FJ rules prohibit such speculation. 

Nope - I have just watched way too much law & order.  I would rather the state and the county error on the side of caution. 

I know Josh is wacky & just a tad bit odd but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think he would engage in behavior like the feds have charged him with.  This is a sad horrible nightmare the entire family is having to go through. As much as I disagree with how the Duggars have demonstrated how they handle their family in TV, I would never ever wish this nightmare on them.  It is just sad. 

  • I Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, viii said:

Ding ding ding. It’s Jesus first, then Josh, then the children. 

There's at least a CHANCE that Josh's activity will be seen as "God-hating" and so putting Jesus first would be functionally the same as putting the children first. I think there's an equal or greater chance that Anna will simply believe that he's being persecuted, but if she believes that Josh has done what he is accused of having done, she can fall behind Jesus first and divorce him, thus protecting her children.

  • Upvote 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Jasmar said:

I’m not Catholic, but ex-evangelical, and I totally agree with you here. I sometimes start praying for someone and then realize I don’t believe there’s anyone there listening, and it’s hard.

Just curious, do you think you could change your mind set into thinking not of praying for them but kind of sending good ju ju their way. Surrounding them in the light that they need. Or does being an complete non believer mean that you can’t rationalise this? 
no snark I’m generally curious. I think I’m agnostic I believe in a higher power that I choose to call Jesus/god because that is my personal exposure. I would also not be surprised to find out that higher power is alien intervention, Mother Nature, Buddha or Zeus etc. I would also not be surprised to find out if a belief in a “higher power” is all a man made invention to explain the fear of death and maintain social control. 

It does bring me comfort though to wish/pray foe people who are in pain. I do like to encourage and express to people positivity thoughts deeds and words if they are in need. Does it change much maybe not but it does change something. 
 

  • Upvote 9
  • Love 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, sockiemom said:

As far as looking at pornography goes, you don’t just stumble across what he was looking at. Josh had to seek this out. His issues have been escalating for a long time for regular porn hub to not be interesting. It is quite concerning and I am shocked he was released.

That's not how that works. The theory of escalating porn addiction has been overturned by sex researchers. You don't slowly ramp up to wanting to watch child sexual assault material or material that involves non-consenting parties after just watching regular videos from Brazzers or whatever.

  • Upvote 10
  • I Agree 1
  • Thank You 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Destiny locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.