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Dillards 89: I'd Watch a Netflix Xpecial and so Would My Mom


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20 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Bring on the downvotes; I’m going to defend Derick here. He didn’t express himself well, and it was none of his business, but he was attacking a reality show about a young trans person that was on the same network that he had just left acrimoniously. His main target was TLC. He also expressed the opinion that gender reassignment surgery is a major decision that should be made after a person reaches adulthood. I don’t agree with him, but it’s not as bigoted a comment as people seem to think. As for gays, there was a recent Q&A where they were asked what they would do if they had a gay child, and IIRC, they said that they would still love him, and they avoided discussing gay marriage. By ATI standards, we might as well give them a rainbow flag and send them off to the pride march.

I actually agree with your take to some extent. And I actually agree with Derrick that TLC is exploitative and shitty.  But he did repeatedly use male pronouns when referring to Jazz, which just seemed dickish.  I think a few years after that, he carefully avoided pronouns when referring to her. So, maybe a teeeeny bit better. But better still would be to just stay out of it. Still, better than most as you pointed out!

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Bring on the downvotes; I’m going to defend Derick here. He didn’t express himself well, and it was none of his business, but he was attacking a reality show about a young trans person that was on the same network that he had just left acrimoniously. His main target was TLC. He also expressed the opinion that gender reassignment surgery is a major decision that should be made after a person reaches adulthood. I don’t agree with him, but it’s not as bigoted a comment as people seem to think. As for gays, there was a recent Q&A where they were asked what they would do if they had a gay child, and IIRC, they said that they would still love him, and they avoided discussing gay marriage. By ATI standards, we might as well give them a rainbow flag and send them off to the pride march.

Actually, Jill and Derick explicitly said that they wouldn’t allow their children to live a LGBT+ ‘lifestyle’ while they were living under their roof. So if one of their kids happened to be trans or non-binary, they’re completely screwed until they’re 18. Great way to mess with your kid’s head and let them know how much you ‘love’ them.

And he deliberately misgendered Jazz on more than one occasion. And called Nate Berkus and his husband a ‘travesty’ for the crime of starting a family. 
 

https://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2020/10/23/former-counting-on-star-jill-dillard-talks-about-how-she-husband-derick-would-feel-if-one-of-their-kids-was-gay-or-transgender/

Edited by Snarkasarus Rex
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I have to say, while I disagree with Derick’s tactics (such as pronoun use) I also don’t disagree that minors can consent to these procedures and that Jazz is a victim of abuse. I don’t think Derick had the best of intentions with his statements though. 
 

i am not sure if it has been mentioned but Derick and Jill are teaching their boys about their anatomy and consent. This is also a big departure from the Duggar model. 

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22 minutes ago, artdecades said:

I have to say, while I disagree with Derick’s tactics (such as pronoun use) I also don’t disagree that minors can consent to these procedures and that Jazz is a victim of abuse. I don’t think Derick had the best of intentions with his statements though. 
 

i am not sure if it has been mentioned but Derick and Jill are teaching their boys about their anatomy and consent. This is also a big departure from the Duggar model. 

It isn't abuse for trans kids to have access to the accepted health and medical treatments available for their age range.

I never watched her show, though, so can't comment on anything about her life beyond that.

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5 minutes ago, seraaa said:

It isn't abuse for trans kids to have access to the accepted health and medical treatments available for their age range.

I never watched her show, though, so can't comment on anything about her life beyond that.

Jazz’s mother literally threatened to forcibly dilate her after srs because Jazz was depressed. 

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1 hour ago, Satan'sFortress said:

  But he did repeatedly use male pronouns when referring to Jazz, which just seemed dickish. 

It’s more than dickish-it’s invalidating and dehumanizing. 
 

There were plenty of other shows Derick could have gone after, but he chose the one with the trans girl. I’m not buying he was mad at TLC for exploiting her-he was mad at TLC and used her as an opportunity to spread anti-trans sentiment.

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1 hour ago, seraaa said:

It isn't abuse for trans kids to have access to the accepted health and medical treatments available for their age range.

I agree.  Those medical decisions are between the child, parents, and the doctors, nobody else.

1 hour ago, artdecades said:

Jazz’s mother literally threatened to forcibly dilate her after srs because Jazz was depressed. 

Umm...what does the bolded mean?  I don't get it:confusion-questionmarks:

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2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Bring on the downvotes; I’m going to defend Derick here. He didn’t express himself well, and it was none of his business, but he was attacking a reality show about a young trans person that was on the same network that he had just left acrimoniously. His main target was TLC. He also expressed the opinion that gender reassignment surgery is a major decision that should be made after a person reaches adulthood. I don’t agree with him, but it’s not as bigoted a comment as people seem to think. As for gays, there was a recent Q&A where they were asked what they would do if they had a gay child, and IIRC, they said that they would still love him, and they avoided discussing gay marriage. By ATI standards, we might as well give them a rainbow flag and send them off to the pride march.

His (now deleted tweet)

Quote

What an oxymoron… a "reality" show which follows a non-reality. "Transgender" is a myth. Gender is not fluid; it's ordained by God. https://t.co/YxzH5o5Ujx

Another one he didn't delete

Quote

 

 

And his (now deleted) comments towards Nate and Jeremiah

Quote

What a travesty of family. It’s sad how blatant the liberal agenda is, such that it both highlights and celebrates a lifestyle so degrading to children on public television as if it should be normal. https://t.co/xicRm1nsW7

Are you really going to try to tell me this isn't bigoted?

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Posted (edited)

So basically Derrick holds the same bigoted views as other fundies but because Jill wears pants, their kids go to public school and he is anti-Jim Bob, Derrick is somehow more mainstream? Isn’t it just the same window dressing as the Bates family? I am not jumping on the Derrick bandwagon just because he says what people want to hear against Jim Bob. He still won’t “allow” a gay child to be who they are in his house. Do you really think he would be welcoming of the gay child once they left the house, have their partner around for dinner? Fundies come on all flavors and Derrick is just a better educated one. He was likely raised with these beliefs, never left them behind and has no desire to do so. 

Edited by socalrules
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I’ve said this before. The reason that I initially gave DD a thumb’s up vs the others is because at this point he has done better for his own children and wife. It’s baby steps here, and he is far ahead of the others in this area. Yes, he may still have horrible beliefs, particularly beliefs that currently affect other people, and uses his vote to put his beliefs into actions-

It also appears that Jill and DD are more actively a part of their community. If they stop perpetrating the rigid, awful principles of the  Duggars, that is progress and a good thing, at least for their children and eventually for society.

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1 hour ago, TuringMachine said:

His (now deleted tweet)

Another one he didn't delete

 

And his (now deleted) comments towards Nate and Jeremiah

Are you really going to try to tell me this isn't bigoted?

Good reminder. Thank you.

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1 hour ago, RosyDaisy said:

Umm...what does the bolded mean?  I don't get it:confusion-questionmarks:

SRS is sexual reassignment surgery. (For the record, I feel weird explaining this because we're talking about an underage girl, so lets just make it general.)

After a transwoman has a vaginoplasty, it's my understanding she has to be careful that the tissues in the surgically constructed vagina don't permanently contract. Often the vagina can close up if it is not dilated every day with some sort of object. 

48 minutes ago, socalrules said:

So basically Derrick holds the same bigoted views as other fundies but because Jill wears pants, their kids go to public school and he is anti-Jim Bob, Derrick is somehow more mainstream? Isn’t it just the same window dressing as the Bates family? I am not jumping on the Derrick bandwagon just because he says what people want to hear against Jim Bob. He still won’t “allow” a gay child to be who they are in his house. Do you really think he would be welcoming of the gay child once they left the house, have their partner around for dinner? Fundies come on all flavors and Derrick is just a better educated one. He was likely raised with these beliefs, never left them behind and has no desire to do so. 

I think he's still bigoted in a lot of ways, but I also think they have made some real steps that are more significant than just "OMG pants!" like with some of the Bateses. They are sending their sons to school to get real educations, obviously they don't think public school is evil, they think birth control is fine and couples should be able to limit how many children they have, and they have stated children should not have to live with their parents until they marry, including daughters. 

There is still plenty I disagree with Derrick on, while also thinking he is more mainstream and healthier. And a lot of mainstream conservatives would have the same rules around their gay children, sadly. It's not just a Fundie thing. 

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I have a friend who was raised hardcore Fundie. 15 years ago, she and her husband had progressed out to the point of being garden variety evangelicals.  But they still homeschooled and such. One night we had a discussion where I attempted to explain to them that legalizing gay marriage wouldn’t damage anyone’s straight marriage. They considered me a poor misguided liberal. 
Four years ago, my friend lamented that her daughters are cis-gendered and straight. They no longer attend any church. They now celebrate pagan holidays rather than Christian ones. They helped organize Austin’s pride events in 2019. 
 

We don’t know where Jill and Derek will end up. But I hope there are people in their lives like me who have the discussions and challenge them without condemnations. Because that will give them the opportunity to grow and the understanding that the world isn’t black and white. Leaving beliefs indoctrinated by your parents takes a lot of time and soul searching. 

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Derek’s Twitter account has been suspended.  I don’t know why.

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2 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Derek’s Twitter account has been suspended.  I don’t know why.

I do not know much about twitter 

can you suspend it yourself or does it mean you have fucked up like they did with trump?

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It’s back!  I wonder what happened.  There was a notice saying it was suspended and I wish I had a screenshot because now I just look silly.

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6 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

It’s back!  I wonder what happened.  There was a notice saying it was suspended and I wish I had a screenshot because now I just look silly.

no drama llama shit happens don't stress. :)

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, socalrules said:

So basically Derrick holds the same bigoted views as other fundies but because Jill wears pants, their kids go to public school and he is anti-Jim Bob, Derrick is somehow more mainstream? Isn’t it just the same window dressing as the Bates family? I am not jumping on the Derrick bandwagon just because he says what people want to hear against Jim Bob. He still won’t “allow” a gay child to be who they are in his house. Do you really think he would be welcoming of the gay child once they left the house, have their partner around for dinner? Fundies come on all flavors and Derrick is just a better educated one. He was likely raised with these beliefs, never left them behind and has no desire to do so. 

I don’t think this is a super fringe thought process unfortunately. I do think that them gradually changing some of their views over time is possible. They say one thing now, but things usually change when it’s your child. 

.....

I’ve been fairly open about my background on here. I know I still have work to do with regards to trans issues, so apologies in advance if I misspeak. 
 

I know I’m a girl. I’ve always known I was a girl. I don’t even get the appeal of being a “tomboy” and I don’t have a particular desire to engage in male-dominated things. If I’m bothered by someone even suggesting I act/dress in a way that’s coded “male”, I can’t imagine how hard it would be to be forced to live in a way I didn’t identify with. I can agree that it’s maybe not ideal to perform irreversible gender confirmation treatment on children. I’d compare it to choosing a gender for an intersex baby. A child’s brain isn’t fully developed and able to fully comprehend long term consequences. However, just like I don’t feel as though I woke up one day and “chose” to be female, trans people don’t just wake up one day and choose to be something other than what they were assigned at birth. Parents can influence their children/direct their actions but eventually a person’s true colors will show. 
 

I do think people who are “disappointed”(??) that their kids aren’t LGBTQIA are weird. 
 

Jazz being so public with her journey is a blessing and a curse. Her parents didn’t really have a model to follow, they’ve definitely made mistakes. That doesn’t invalidate the experiences of other trans people, especially kids. 

Edited by nelliebelle1197
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No one is "assigned" anything at birth. Chromosomes determine one's sex at conception; sex is merely observed at birth, and usually before birth via ultrasound or prenatal testing.

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27 minutes ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

No one is "assigned" anything at birth. Chromosomes determine one's sex at conception; sex is merely observed at birth, and usually before birth via ultrasound or prenatal testing.

it's not officially written on a birth certificate until birth.  Ultrasounds can be wrong and chromosome tests aren't a guarantee either.

 

Anyhow, on Twitter Derick was explaining how the 'rebranding' was still JB&M's show and it was deceiving the public and badly handled, and trying to stop people from judging the others on the show when they don't know what they're doing or thinking now or what information they knew when or what scare tactics are used on them to keep them compliant.

then someone shot back with this bizarre tweet: 

whaaaaaat?  Some people can only see the world in black and white I guess.  Or "agrees with me 100%" vs "hateful woke leftist"

 

Did Derick talk about the threats of being sued if they didn't film the new show before?  I haven't been paying any attention to Duggar news since the previous josh stuff so I missed Jill leaving Counting On entirely. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

[Removed hate speech] ... the angry mob hasn't changed my stance on this issue.

Definition of bigotry: 

Quote

obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group

You chose to argue against the rights and even existence of a marginalized group of people even when presented with evidence. Sounds like bigotry to me.

 

15 hours ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

And before I get accused of it like last time, I'm pro-LGB and gay marriage/gay rights.

Nothing says pro-LGB like discussing someone's sexual orientation because they don't act manly enough for you.

 

Edited by hoipolloi
Removing hate speech
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IMO, gender is not real, there is not a checklist of things to tick, that will make you a woman. You can't be "diagnosed" as a woman. What means being a woman to some, is not the same as a woman is to others. There is not one thing, or several things, that will make you a woman. There are 7 billion people on the Earth, so there are 7 billion individual genders. Everyone's gender is unique, just like everyone's personality is unique. But if someone tells your their pronouns, then you respect that, because why would you make their day or their mental health worse?

I don't think reassignment surgery should be available for under 18s, but I think puberty blockers and egg/sperm freezing should be. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

But Jazz is a male, and many people don't subscribe to gender ideology or believe in "misgendering." Not believing in gender ideology isn't bigotry

What does this even mean, though? "Gender ideology".

To me, it is just recognising a fact about the world that transgender people exist.

This doesn't mean that biology isn't "real", it means that some people's experience of themself in the world is as transgender. This is why the word "transgender" exists, to capture a sense of this experience.

And you may say, well, these people are crazy, they are deluded and wrong. They're just doing it for fun. Something is broken inside of them. And I hear this and can't help but draw the parallell with homosexuality, which  was only officially removed from the DSM in 1973.

But the thing is that queer people - the LGB and the T - can live perfectly healthy and fulfilling lives. Choosing this because it feels necessary, or inherent, or whatever means that people have more fulfilling lives.

Being this way is just a thing that some people are, and those who embrace that deserve dignity and respect as much as anyone else.

 

Edited by seraaa
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, FrumpyAtheist said:

I agree that picking on a teenager as a means of critiquing TLC was totally inappropriate and showed bad judgment of Derrick.

[Removed hate speech] I already got downvoted into oblivion on the JKR thread about this and the angry mob hasn't changed my stance on this issue. [Removed hate speech]

*And before I get accused of it like last time, I'm pro-LGB and gay marriage/gay rights.

You’re a transphobe love. 

Kindly fuck off keep trans and non-binary people out of your mouth. 
 

 

Edited by hoipolloi
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Posted (edited)

@FrumpyAtheistYou’re a transphobe love. 

Kindly keep trans and non-binary people out of your mouth. 
 

Edited to say: 

The gender binary and how we define gender in our society is entirely constructed. Throughout history, many people groups have constructed gender and other identities in a variety of ways. 

Also, biology is not divided into a binary either. Intersex people exist, and other people with various types of biodiversity exist. That is evidence that the distinct male/female biological differentiation you believe in is completely arbitrary. 

It's not an opinion to say that you don't believe that a marginalized group of people exist. It's erasure and violence. 

Gender in the way we understand it now is based on white neocolonial ideologies that erase the cultures of indigenous and black people. It's also a construct that disadvantages black non-men in particular because the construction of womanhood is based on whiteness. 

Edited by Jinder Roles
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