Dillards 89: I'd Watch a Netflix Xpecial and so Would My Mom

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I've asked this before, but what the hell is with fundies and planes?

? Maybe they think the planes get them closer to heaven? ???

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, fundiefriday said:

I think that not having the kids learn trades was a lose/lose for JB.  I haven't seen a ton of the Bates' show but I have seen segments that show the kids at college and working in different trades.  If JB had allowed this, then the show would have been more interesting and the siblings would have some legitimate skills.  It also would have helped them appear more normal.  (Appear is key since there's nothing normal about their beliefs and cult).

I think that was likely due to the Bates being in such financial straits before the show that they had no choice, the kids needed to work.  The bank of Lawson can only go so far with buying groceries and loaning Erin the money for college.  

I agree that it's left them better equipped for life, whatever the reasoning behind it.  And I don't know why JB/M didn't encourage the trades.  Tree cutting, landscaping, mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, esthetician, masonry.  Heck if licensed, six of those would be of huge benefit in the house flipping they do.  It's like they think just knowing enough to eek out a project is the same as a licensed professional.  

And you're so right about the appearance.  The Bates daughters having job before marriage has the appearance of normalcy and "we're just like you" that the Duggars can never have as SAHD is just so weird to most people. 

Nothing wrong with kids living at home into adulthood if everyone is cool with that, but the staying at home because you're not "allowed" to move out or work is just bizarre in this day and age.  I've read and watched a lot on Lizzie Borden over the years (stop judging me) and when they talk about her still living at home at 32 with no job or husband they always comment about how common that was back then, in response to how weird that seems to us that two grown women (she and her sister) lived at home as their only chance of a life of their own was to marry or wait for their father to die.  

Another similarity is much was made in court of Lizzie being a "respectable Christian woman" and her church involvement presented as "evidence" of her good character.  I'm just saying the Duggars would seem less weird if this were 1892.

Edited May 28, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I've asked this before, but what the hell is with fundies and planes?

I know! Why are so many things are forbidden (working for someone, going to college, etc) but flying--for some reason-- is perfectly fine?

I mean, you need to take a lot of classes to fly a plane, so it doesn't jibe with their disdain for education. Flying a plane gives you immense freedom, which doesn't jibe with their desire to keep everyone close to home all the time.

I notice that although flying is OK, working for a commercial airline does not seem to be OK. Of course, it takes a lot of discipline to get that far in the flying world, so many that is the difficulty. 

[marmalade]

10 hours ago, fundiefriday said:

I think that not having the kids learn trades was a lose/lose for JB.  I haven't seen a ton of the Bates' show but I have seen segments that show the kids at college and working in different trades.  If JB had allowed this, then the show would have been more interesting and the siblings would have some legitimate skills.  It also would have helped them appear more normal.  (Appear is key since there's nothing normal about their beliefs and cult).

Jason (yes, there's a Jason) bills himself as a "contractor," but like Austin, isn't licensed. Both of them are glorified house flippers.

[SassyPants]

8 hours ago, marmalade said:

Jason (yes, there's a Jason) bills himself as a "contractor," but like Austin, isn't licensed. Both of them are glorified house flippers.

Damn it, I always forget about that one. 

[Angelface]

I don’t understand why they don’t value being licensed trades or contractors. I wouldn’t employ unlicensed workers. They have such a huge number of young men/ adolescents that they could cover all the trades and work on individual projects when they wanted to but could team together for larger projects. There is no reason why the girls couldn’t learn a trade if they wanted to. The lack of obvious home making skills amongst the young women baffles me. They make such a big thing about the women having no role other than SAHD or wife but don’t teach her the skills to do the job properly. Everything seems to be done to a mediocre level and that’s good enough- no aspirations to exceed the brief or to do something really well. A life of drudgery, never ending children, no chance of changing your life path and being unutterably bored from late adolescence onwards would be my idea of hell. I don’t believe for a minute that many of the young women are happy with the status quo. Thank goodness I don’t have to live that stunted existence.

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, Angelface said:

I don’t understand why they don’t value being licensed trades or contractors. I wouldn’t employ unlicensed workers. They have such a huge number of young men/ adolescents that they could cover all the trades and work on individual projects when they wanted to but could team together for larger projects. There is no reason why the girls couldn’t learn a trade if they wanted to. The lack of obvious home making skills amongst the young women baffles me. They make such a big thing about the women having no role other than SAHD or wife but don’t teach her the skills to do the job properly. Everything seems to be done to a mediocre level and that’s good enough- no aspirations to exceed the brief or to do something really well. A life of drudgery, never ending children, no chance of changing your life path and being unutterably bored from late adolescence onwards would be my idea of hell. I don’t believe for a minute that many of the young women are happy with the status quo. Thank goodness I don’t have to live that stunted existence.

And yet JB and his neck made a living shilling how their way was better. Lying phonies. You are exactly right. They are masters of none, always taking the easy way out, lazy grifters.

JB, JC doesn’t like liars.

[louisa05]

There was a whole very popular thing about being missionary pilots to remote places in the 90s when I taught in crazy Christian school. Tons of the boys declared they were going to learn to fly and be missionary pilots. It was like a missionary calling but cooler. To my knowledge none of them ever did it. One joined the Air Force to do it after he left. But he ended up career Air Force and not an evangelical anymore. 

[socalrules]

Being licensed usually requires getting real training with non-fundies. If one of the Duggars wanted to be a plumber, they would have to go to a real trades school with people from all walks of life. They would have to show up to class on time, study, take instruction from a woman or non-fundy and actually pass the class and licensing on their own merit. I just don’t think the Duggars would put themselves through that. The ones with pilot licenses likely learned one on one with another fundy but that’s just not going to be possible with regular trades. We really don’t know how much the Duggars know about fixing things as I can see Jim Bob being a cost cutter that could impact safety. Would you allow any of them to work on the electrical system in your house? I think a lot of them know bits and pieces of how to fix things but not a full picture of how anything works. 

If Jana wants to be an interior designer, she needs to take real classes. What she does is nice and all but it’s nothing I couldn’t do myself by looking at Pinterest. It doesn’t show she has an eye for design. Interior Designers create a theme throughout the entire home. I am not going to give her a pass and say she is ready to go out and start her own interior design business. What if someone wants classy instead of the Duggar style of wood signs and a million pictures of their parents on a wall. Or Mediterranean or Victorian era? 

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Angelface said:

I don’t understand why they don’t value being licensed trades or contractors. I wouldn’t employ unlicensed workers. They have such a huge number of young men/ adolescents that they could cover all the trades and work on individual projects when they wanted to but could team together for larger projects. There is no reason why the girls couldn’t learn a trade if they wanted to. The lack of obvious home making skills amongst the young women baffles me. They make such a big thing about the women having no role other than SAHD or wife but don’t teach her the skills to do the job properly. Everything seems to be done to a mediocre level and that’s good enough- no aspirations to exceed the brief or to do something really well. A life of drudgery, never ending children, no chance of changing your life path and being unutterably bored from late adolescence onwards would be my idea of hell. I don’t believe for a minute that many of the young women are happy with the status quo. Thank goodness I don’t have to live that stunted existence.

I am guessing that the reason the kids are not encouraged to learn more and be a bit more than just barely competent is that they might end up knowing more and being more competent than JB and Michelle. 

 

[patsymae]

If Jana wants to be an interior designer, she needs to take real classes."

Where, for starters, she might learn the difference between design and decoration. For all her love of the Silos and the Gaineses, she apparently hadn't noticed that Joanna does the decorating as the icing on the cake AFTER she has redesigned the space. You have to know a lot more than just where to stick the throw pillows.

Also, don't interior decorators have to have some kind of accreditation. It was eons ago, but I remember a friend's sister who could get stuff wholesale because she was an accredited interior decorator. I'd assume (but actually have no idea) that would hold true for interior designers also.

[Mrs Ms]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:16 AM, EmCatlyn said:

? Maybe they think the planes get them closer to heaven? ???

In light of what happened to Gwen Shamblin Lara and the other 6 this is weirdly prophetic ?

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

34 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

In light of what happened to Gwen Shamblin Lara and the other 6 this is weirdly prophetic ?

For those who aren't familiar with Gwen Shamblin, she started a "God centered" weight-loss program in the 90s called "Weigh Down". She then spun it off in to a church/cult called Remnant Fellowship in Brentwood, Tennessee. The RF anti-eating, "God-only-loves-skinny-people" cult has been discussed on FJ for a few years now. Earlier today, a private plane crashed, with Gwen Shamblin Lara, Joe Lara (her 2nd husband), her son-in-law Brandon Hannah, and 2 couples who were very deep into RF aboard. Officials just confirmed that all 7 aboard died.

https://www.wkrn.com/news/plane-crash-reported-at-fate-sanders-marina-in-rutherford-county/

Here's a link to the current page of the Gwen Shamblin Lara thread:

Small planes always seem both very attractive and very frightening to me.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

For those who aren't familiar with Gwen Shamblin, she started a "God centered" weight-loss program in the 90s called "Weigh Down". She then spun it off in to a church/cult called Remnant Fellowship in Brentwood, Tennessee. The RF anti-eating, "God-only-loves-skinny-people" cult has been discussed on FJ for a few years now. Earlier today, a private plane crashed, with Gwen Shamblin Lara, Joe Lara (her 2nd husband), her son-in-law Brandon Hannah, and 2 couples who were very deep into RF aboard. Officials just confirmed that all 7 aboard died.

https://www.wkrn.com/news/plane-crash-reported-at-fate-sanders-marina-in-rutherford-county/

Here's a link to the current page of the Gwen Shamblin Lara thread:

Small planes always seem both very attractive and very frightening to me.

That’s sad.   Obviously I did not have anything like this in mind.  (I was just joking planes flying you up to the sky where some people think God is.)  Thanks for explaining.

[viii]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:05 AM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I've asked this before, but what the hell is with fundies and planes?

I think it makes sense for them. A lot of fundies do a lot of guest speaking at other churches, or have some sort of music ministry. They do a lot of travel but don't earn a lot of money. If they're able to invest in a plane and have a son or two become pilots, then they're able to extend their outreach at a minimal cost eventually. 

[marmalade]

14 hours ago, viii said:

I think it makes sense for them. A lot of fundies do a lot of guest speaking at other churches, or have some sort of music ministry. They do a lot of travel but don't earn a lot of money. If they're able to invest in a plane and have a son or two become pilots, then they're able to extend their outreach at a minimal cost eventually. 

A son would have to get a commercial license to be able to fly a plane fitting a large fundie family. Even the Duggars' largest plane only seats 10.

[HeartsAFundie]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:22 PM, EmCatlyn said:

I am guessing that the reason the kids are not encouraged to learn more and be a bit more than just barely competent is that they might end up knowing more and being more competent than JB and Michelle. 

 

Not only fundies are guilty of that.  My MIL did that to her kids.  Her mantra was "I don't do cars and I don't do college".  My husband was never encouraged to go past high school and until he got the job he retired from after staying for 33 years, only worked minimum wage jobs; his older sister went to college for one year, dropped out and worked in a factory from age 18-50, only leaving because the place closed; and his older brother, who also worked menial jobs after high school, put himself through college and after many years of night school, finally got his bachelor's at age 35.  However, he remained with his same employer in the same position.  Ironically, my MIL was an RN and a nursing supervisor so you would think she would value education.  However, she also loves to run the show when it comes to her kids' lives and it would not be in her best interest to have any of her kids become smarter than her, lest she lose control over people who can think for themselves.   Very sad and very stunting.  

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by HeartsAFundie

[viii]

11 hours ago, marmalade said:

A son would have to get a commercial license to be able to fly a plane fitting a large fundie family. Even the Duggars' largest plane only seats 10.

I don't mean fly the whole family, just the various speakers and whatnot. The Duggars have been able to save a lot of money by having JD be a pilot and escort various family members around the US. 

[baldricks_turnip]

On 6/1/2021 at 12:52 AM, viii said:

I think it makes sense for them. A lot of fundies do a lot of guest speaking at other churches, or have some sort of music ministry. They do a lot of travel but don't earn a lot of money. If they're able to invest in a plane and have a son or two become pilots, then they're able to extend their outreach at a minimal cost eventually. 

I wonder if also its something that is acceptable in their community (probably for the reasons you gave) but is for themselves and has nothing to do with god. It's one of the few things they are allowed to do that makes them feel cool.

[treehugger]

Being a pilot is a great way for guys to get an ego massage.  There’s all sorts of status and pilots are notoriously cocky and egotistical.  I spent my childhood around small airplanes (my dad really was a missionary pilot), and would spend hours at the airport clubs for pilots watching them bloviate.  My husband also flew. 
I love small airplanes, but they can be risky.  Still safer than driving though.  

Anyways, all that rambling to say being a pilot may be acceptable for the Duggars because of the status symbol. It’s a great way for superficial people to preen.  

[Alisamer]

48 minutes ago, treehugger said:

Anyways, all that rambling to say being a pilot may be acceptable for the Duggars because of the status symbol. It’s a great way for superficial people to preen.  

It also might give them a feeling of freedom. Being cooped up with a house full of little kids all the time, flight lessons with just the instructor, or solo practice flights might feel like a wonderful vacation. 

Maybe I'm looking too much through my own eyes here - because I live close enough to a major airport that there are always a few planes within view (except right after 9-11, which freaked me out) and I drive under the takeoff/landing path twice a day during the week. There's even a place where a highway parallels a runway which is awesome, if the timing is right it feels like you're racing the plane. I love being able to see airplanes often, and part of it is reassuring to me. 

I could, if I wanted to, hop on a plane and go just about anywhere, any time. I can't afford to, obviously, but the option exists. It's a quick drive to the airport, it's right there, every day I can look up and see people going places - I often look up and think "I bet somebody on that plane is excited about going on vacation. And somebody else is on a business trip. Probably somebody is flying for the first time!"

I suspect fundie kids get very little freedom in their lives. Everything is restricted, from clothing to activities to schooling. But flying? Just the idea of it has to seem like the ultimate in freedom to them. I can see why so many of them gravitate toward the idea.

I'd be willing to bet nearly all the fundie kids with pilots licenses has at least once in their life had the fleeting thought "I could just pack up and get in the plane and go somewhere. Anywhere." They haven't done it, obviously, and most wouldn't... but the option is there. The illusion of choice and freedom is there.

[SassyPants]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:55 AM, HeartsAFundie said:

Not only fundies are guilty of that.  My MIL did that to her kids.  Her mantra was "I don't do cars and I don't do college".  My husband was never encouraged to go past high school and until he got the job he retired from after staying for 33 years, only worked minimum wage jobs; his older sister went to college for one year, dropped out and worked in a factory from age 18-50, only leaving because the place closed; and his older brother, who also worked menial jobs after high school, put himself through college and after many years of night school, finally got his bachelor's at age 35.  However, he remained with his same employer in the same position.  Ironically, my MIL was an RN and a nursing supervisor so you would think she would value education.  However, she also loves to run the show when it comes to her kids' lives and it would not be in her best interest to have any of her kids become smarter than her, lest she lose control over people who can think for themselves.   Very sad and very stunting.  

 

My long deceased in laws were the same. They only paid for college for their youngest of 7. Everyone else was on their own. Thankfully they all figured it out and most were very successful. My MIL was also educated and the principal of an elementary school, go figure. 

 

[fluffernutter]

My mom had a chip on her shoulder about education too. She was a hs drop-out and only later got her GED so she could get a job at a local grocery store. I went to public school and was bright. I was always in "level one" classes except for math, which I struggled with. I vividly remember struggling the early weeks of 9th grade with Algebra 1. I went home and asked my parents if they could help me get a tutor, which was offered through the high school at no charge but needed a parent/guidance counselor meeting. My mom said I didn't need algebra and that I should just move down a level. I said that if I moved down one more level I wouldn't have enough math credits to get into college and she kinda freaked out on me. I was called "hoity-toity" and "highfalutin." She said they'd never have money to send me anyway so it was pointless to worry about it. I think she felt like it was a judgement on her choices. I ended up dropping down a level and started to just not give a shit anymore. I mean they didn't, so why should I? One time in 10th grade I heard my parents talking about my report card, which was dismal. My dad said that maybe we should punish her and my mom's retort was that by my age she had dropped out and was working. I pulled my shit together in 11th and 12th grade and did end up going to art school on a scholarship. I wish I would've had more support though. I was 2nd chair in orchestra (cello) and would've loved to major in music. I made sure my kids knew we had high expectations, were involved in booster clubs and chaperones and all that, and made a big deal out of making school something to be excited about. Sorry that was a bit of a ramble there!

[Idlewild]

Jill’s Instagram story has her receiving a canvas print from their photo shoot.

I’m probably being BEC here but it just strikes me as odd that for a huge centrepiece portrait of their family they’ve chosen one of them kissing while the children smile to the camera. Why not all the family smiling or engaged with each other? They just seem to want to constantly remind everyone how hip and horny they are!

[justoneoftwo]

Not paying for college isn't the worst thing. Also doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about education. I know families that think it's important that the kid have skin in the game. But they also think it's very important to do and our support of another ways.