Josiah & Lauren 18: Still Only A Single Arrow in the Quiver

[imokit]

The court filings say that one of Josh's workers is now employed at a different car lot owned by a different Duggar brother.  Do we know which Duggar brother this is? Is it likely to be Josiah?

[mpheels]

If Josh tried/is trying to introduce speculation that Josiah downloaded CSA material, and JB is letting it happen, I really hope Josiah and Lauren are gearing up to sue the pants off JB/TLC for back wages and neglect/abuse.

[CanadianMamam]

22 minutes ago, mpheels said:

If Josh tried/is trying to introduce speculation that Josiah downloaded CSA material, and JB is letting it happen, I really hope Josiah and Lauren are gearing up to sue the pants off JB/TLC for back wages and neglect/abuse.

Same. I couldn't even imagine the sense of betrayal in that situation. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by CanadianMamam

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, CanadianMamam said:

Same. I couldn't even imagine the sense of betrayal in that situation. 

And Jim Bob is paying for that defense. I can’t help but speculate on some distancing between some of the married Duggars and their parents. 

[CanadianMamam]

I have noticed that Jill references having board game nights with Josiah and Lauren, so maybe there is some hope there. 

[Anna Bolinas]

10 hours ago, SeekingAdventure said:

I would have to look though old posts again, but I'm pretty sure speculation was that either Joe or Siah was the witness Josh blamed for it...

There was speculation that Joe or Josiah would be blamed, but then the identities of the three witnesses were confirmed--William Mize, Joshua Williams, and Randall Berry according to this screenshot on r/duggarssnark. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

JB was kicked off Josh's legal team months ago. He has no say in how the defense runs their case. He may be paying the bills, but the defense only represents Josh. Josh is the one who makes decisions about what is allowed in his defense.

[AussieKrissy]

14 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

JB was kicked off Josh's legal team months ago. He has no say in how the defense runs their case. He may be paying the bills, but the defense only represents Josh. Josh is the one who makes decisions about what is allowed in his defense.

oh how did we find out that?

also can some please post a link where i can see the newest court vid please?

[Snarkasarus Rex]

15 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

JB was kicked off Josh's legal team months ago. He has no say in how the defense runs their case. He may be paying the bills, but the defense only represents Josh. Josh is the one who makes decisions about what is allowed in his defense.

How was Boob a part of his legal team in the first place? 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Just now, Snarkasarus Rex said:

How was Boob a part of his legal team in the first place? 

Not sure. I guess he was sitting in on the proceedings or asking questions? All I remember is that earlier this year. Josh's defense team officially kicked JB out of the defense. At the time, other snarkers thought the defense did it to keep JB from trying to bribe me, but it occurred to me that JB might be trying to be protect his other sons. 

[snickerz]

Another reason JB probably got kicked out is The Pedophile wouldn't have been willing to talk to his lawyers about the disgusting things he did or did not do with his father sitting right there.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Not sure. I guess he was sitting in on the proceedings or asking questions? All I remember is that earlier this year. Josh's defense team officially kicked JB out of the defense. At the time, other snarkers thought the defense did it to keep JB from trying to bribe me, but it occurred to me that JB might be trying to be protect his other sons. 

I’m not a lawyer, but having seen some court cases in both my personal and professional life —- my impression is that the defense isn’t terribly interested in being guided by family members - whether they are paying or not. They want input as far as how far you are willing to keep going - as that’s a cost issue. And will layout best options, if the person on trial wants you to know all that - but they sure don’t want any armchair quarterbacking from a naturally highly emotionally invested and anxious spouse or parent.  

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

On 11/18/2021 at 5:49 PM, imokit said:

The court filings say that one of Josh's workers is now employed at a different car lot owned by a different Duggar brother.  Do we know which Duggar brother this is? Is it likely to be Josiah?

I believe "Josh's" lot was Wholesale Motorcars, which has been out of business since last year. I suspect the "car" Duggar boys now work for Jed's lot, Champion Motorcars. That's probably Josiah, and maybe Joe as well?

[SassyPants]

And how would Josiah being the offender vs Josh, improve the Duggar image or save JB money? I don’t think JB would pay for a defense that implicated another Duggar.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

And how would Josiah being the offender vs Josh, improve the Duggar image or save JB money? I don’t think JB would pay for a defense that implicated another Duggar.

JB doesn't have a say. He's paying for a lawyer, but he doesn't get to make those decisions. Josh is the client and he's the one who makes those decisions. JB has already been paying for the lawyers and I'm not he can stop now, especially since he is not supposed to know what decisions are being made.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

JB doesn't have a say. He's paying for a lawyer, but he doesn't get to make those decisions. Josh is the client and he's the one who makes those decisions. JB has already been paying for the lawyers and I'm not he can stop now, especially since he is not supposed to know what decisions are being made.

Losing control and Being $crewed out of $$$ would most likely bother JB more than Josh being found guilty.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Losing control and Being $crewed out of $$$ would most likely bother JB more than Josh being found guilty.

I don't understand what you mean. He's already lost control of the situation and spent tons of money. If Josh is found guilty, then JB will have definitely have lost control and spent fortune on defense lawyers for nothing.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I don't understand what you mean. He's already lost control of the situation and spent tons of money. If Josh is found guilty, then JB will have definitely have lost control and spent fortune on defense lawyers for nothing.

I think if we step back and think of them as any other family - a parent will usually get their kid who is charged with an extremely serious crime a private defense attorney - if they can afford it.  No offense to the many hard working, capable public defenders out there — but most parents with the means to do so will want more resources put into defense than a public defender can provide. Most families just aren’t wealthy enough to pour potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. JB can pay the lawyers without having to put any significant dent in his finances or lifestyle. They own literally hundreds of properties and even in cheap af Arkansas could sell off a just a few to cover the legal fees.

It’s all relative, to someone more regular middle class with a job and a mortgage and they might take out an equity line or credit cards and pay 20k, for the best local lawyer they could get — and it would have more of a long term impact on their lives. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I don't understand what you mean. He's already lost control of the situation and spent tons of money. If Josh is found guilty, then JB will have definitely have lost control and spent fortune on defense lawyers for nothing.

Right…that part of the situation is what is causing him more angst, vs (if) his son is a convicted CS deviant. 
 In other words, the loss of money and control is more offensive than his son’s crimes (alleged at the moment)-

[patsymae]

The impression I got from what I read (here) of the court proceedings is not that anyone was trying to pin it on another Duggar brother, but that one of the accused men was saying that Josh sent him over to be employed by another brother. So why would he do that if he thought the guy had accessed Josh's computer  without permission?

[Mrs Ms]

Because it was such a small business, any trying to deflect from Josh automatically means shitting all over family and work associates who still work with other family members.

Josiah, Joe and Jeb/Jed (can’t remember which twin works the car business) must truely despise Josh - while watching daddy-dearest paying the attorneys who are shitting all over them and their (co-)workers. 

[SorenaJ]

I think Josiah and Lauren will have more kids, if they are able to. They said they went with an alphabet theme, and that would make more sense if you are planning on having several kids/a larger family. No reason going with an alphabet theme, if you are only planning 1 or 2 kids. 

[breakfree]

1 hour ago, SorenaJ said:

I think Josiah and Lauren will have more kids, if they are able to. They said they went with an alphabet theme, and that would make more sense if you are planning on having several kids/a larger family. No reason going with an alphabet theme, if you are only planning 1 or 2 kids. 

While I certainly would be shocked if they never have another child those comments were made 2 years ago now. Their opinion on how many kids they want could well have changed now that they have a kid. They are still in their early 20's, their opinions on a lot of things could still change.

I do think 2 seemingly healthy people in their early 20's who had two pregnancies quickly after marrying and now haven't been known to have a pregnancy in over 2 years are almost certainly doing *something* to space out pregnancies even if it's just not having much sex. While of course secondary infertility and multiple miscarriages can't be ruled out, like I said these are seemingly healthy people in their prime fertile years who successfully conceived before. It's statistically clear what is more likely.

Edited November 22, 2021 by breakfree

[AprilQuilt]

2 hours ago, breakfree said:

While I certainly would be shocked if they never have another child those comments were made 2 years ago now. Their opinion on how many kids they want could well have changed now that they have a kid. They are still in their early 20's, their opinions on a lot of things could still change.

I do think 2 seemingly healthy people in their early 20's who had two pregnancies quickly after marrying and now haven't been known to have a pregnancy in over 2 years are almost certainly doing *something* to space out pregnancies even if it's just not having much sex. While of course secondary infertility and multiple miscarriages can't be ruled out, like I said these are seemingly healthy people in their prime fertile years who successfully conceived before. It's statistically clear what is more likely.

Lauren, as far as we know, has carried one pregnancy to term and suffered one miscarriage, so it actually isn't 'statistically clear' which is more likely for her... and as they are nailing down their privacy I doubt they'll be sharing the news of further losses as they did with Asa.

I hope they are choosing to control their spacing rather than leave it up to God, but unlike the Dillards and JinJer who have both now said they did this (and whose behaviour/allusions also indicated it), we don't really know enough about SiRen to guess.

[breakfree]

Miscarriages are common but you need to have 3 in a row, at least when you are young, for doctors to think there's likely any problem. I find it unlikely that one miscarriage would likely indicate some kind of predisposition to having a ton of them especially with a living child immediately after, though I do agree these two won't share further losses, we will only be able to deduce them if they stick to their alphabet theme. I've admitted it is possible.

But I have to say a lot of people here are reluctant in general to accept the most likely answer (that couples are intentionally or perhaps unintentionally doing *something* to space pregnancies) until they come out and say so. While as they come from deeply quiverful parents I do understand that, I think the most likely explanation usually is right. Many people even here believed Jill had a hysterectomy before believing she was spacing in some way even after Derek outright said she hadn't had one. Quiverful is not a key principle of all fundamentalism, rejecting it isn't unusual among fundies and I think assuming  all these kiddults are quiverful even when only a few so far (Kendra, Jessa, Anna) obviously are breeding for Jesus isn't necessarily correct.