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Jinjer 56: Oh My Stars It's a Reality Show Book! How Surprising - Not


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It appears the book takes turns who is “talking”. The majority of it seem to be about their relationship from a quick skim. Here is the chapter list, I’ll give updates in chapter order if there’s anything worth sharing. Though, on the title page it says by Jeremy and Jinger with Bethany Mauger so i think they had a ghost writer

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I bought the ebook. They named their miscarried baby Halleli Grace. We didn’t know that, did we? It’s in the dedication. Skimming the last few pages, they don’t seem to say why they picked the name.

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4 hours ago, Marionette said:

Did anyone read the excerpt featured in People about how Jinger initially turned Jeremy down, and he threw a fit over it? Jeremy always gave me toxic vibes, but I’m even more disgusted by him now. 

Aside from that, their book sounds utterly boring. They don’t have a story to tell, they don’t have a message to give—it’s just spiritual bypassing all the culty bs. 

You're leaving out the best part of that excerpt! When Jeremy was sulking to Ben, he said 

Quote

"Ben, take a picture of me sitting outside this coffee spot," I said, "because I've been on a journey."

Never change, Jeremy, never change. ?

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On 5/1/2021 at 1:39 AM, MomJeans said:

I think Jeremy is very concerned right now that their entire new career path is over.  I said this on another thread- I really hope he's not taking his anger out on Jinger. 

As to Jinger- as a victim of incestual abuse and someone who has volunteered with survivors for years, it's not abnormal for victims to still hero-worship their parents, even if their parents knowingly refused to protect them, or perpetrated against them.  

Incestual abuse involves a lot of gaslighting, and not just from the abuser.  Combine that with a religious cult that preaches misogyny, that a girl must always obey her parents, and that abuse is the fault of the victim -  I really think it's possible it would take years of intensive therapy for Jinger to start thinking and feeling for herself.  

I could be so, so wrong about Jinger.  I just know what it's like to convince yourself that your family loves you and takes care of you, even when you know deep down it can't be true.   For some survivors, they have to convince themselves that their parents were right in order to mentally survive. 

The whole thing is more confusing when your parents really do love you, even as they make mistakes.

And it seems from other extracts that Jinger has a close bond with Michelle, especially. 

As an example, she talks about how Michelle helped and cared for her when she was struggling with an ED as a teenager.

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I’m curious to know what the ‘dreams change’ chapter is about. Is this where Jinger describes wanting to be a photographer in New York but changed her mind to wanting to be a Stepford wife/grifter in LA?? 

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10 hours ago, Marionette said:

Did anyone read the excerpt featured in People about how Jinger initially turned Jeremy down, and he threw a fit over it? Jeremy always gave me toxic vibes, but I’m even more disgusted by him now. 

Aside from that, their book sounds utterly boring. They don’t have a story to tell, they don’t have a message to give—it’s just spiritual bypassing all the culty bs. 

I read that and thought "You made your DAD to go tell him? And then your sister and brother-in-law ran some kind of interference with the relationship?" Just ridiculous. 

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Posted (edited)

I read the summary on duggardata and thought this point was interesting:

"After Jeremy asked for permission to get to know Jinger, Jim Bob didn’t give his permission for 5 Months.  During this time, they spoke by phone weekly and discussed theology.  Jim Bob was worried about theological differences between Jeremy and the Duggars, and thought it might be a “dealbreaker” for Jinger + Jeremy."

So it sounds like Jeremy had to talk to Boob every week for 5 months before he was allowed to get to know Jinger and the theological differences were a potential deal breaker. It has always been a bit of a mystery why the Duggs were okay with Jeremy's reformed theology. I really wonder if Jeremy had to lie about any of his beliefs ie family planning and KJV. 

"Because of this, Jinger started to worry that courting Jeremy might be a source of conflict and tension in the family.  Right as Jim Bob decided it was actually fine, and Jeremy could court Jinger, Jinger freaked out and decided she couldn’t be with him because it was too “divisive.”  Jeremy, Jim Bob, and Michelle managed to change Jinger’s mind and everything was back on track, like, two days later."

I'm not a fan of Jinger, but I would chip in some money for her to get some therapy. There are so many markers for Dependent Personality Disorder and/or other anxiety conditions. My heart breaks thinking about the little girls who were told their trauma must be forgiven and forgotten. 

Edited by theotherelise
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7 hours ago, NoneIsEnough said:

You're leaving out the best part of that excerpt! When Jeremy was sulking to Ben, he said 

Never change, Jeremy, never change. ?

The photo is in the book and is every bit as pretentious as you think.

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10 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I bought the ebook. They named their miscarried baby Halleli Grace. We didn’t know that, did we? It’s in the dedication. Skimming the last few pages, they don’t seem to say why they picked the name.

Wait...they assigned a sex? And is that Halley or Hailey? If so, that could be a Webster spelling choice.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Wait...they assigned a sex? And is that Halley or Hailey? If so, that could be a Webster spelling choice.

There's another L at the end, so maybe Hal-ellie? According to babynames.com it's a female name of Hebrew origin meaning Praise God, so pretty on brand. It's not ranked on either of the popularity charts linked from that site. The Webster girls all have cutesy spellings, but they are all fairly common spellings of common names, as opposed to the (apparently) traditional spelling of an almost unheard of name. 

I don't know that they ever said how far along she was when she miscarried, so it's possible they knew the sex.

 

Edited by OHFL2009
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Posted (edited)

That name doesn't really seem to fit with their vibe. The meaning, yes, but not the actual name. 

Also - the more excerpts I read from this book, the more I think Jeremy is a toxic alpha male and the more I feel like Jinger needs some serious therapy. 

Edited by viii
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It seems like fundies seem to give their miscarriages names that don't fit with their naming theme or that are more "out there" names. Jubilee for JB&M, Jewels, Jubilee, Zion and Sunny for Gil & KJ. Maybe meaning is more important for a baby they believe is in Heaven than whether it goes with the rest of their names. 

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9 minutes ago, OHFL2009 said:

It seems like fundies seem to give their miscarriages names that don't fit with their naming theme or that are more "out there" names. Jubilee for JB&M, Jewels, Jubilee, Zion and Sunny for Gil & KJ. Maybe meaning is more important for a baby they believe is in Heaven than whether it goes with the rest of their names. 

Caleb is the name that seems out of place for the duggars. Why have one baby named that? I know it was before the theme but it doesn’t make sense. 

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3 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

Caleb is the name that seems out of place for the duggars. Why have one baby named that? I know it was before the theme but it doesn’t make sense. 

In the Bible, Joshua and Caleb worked together to conquer the promised land. In that light, it makes perfect sense. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

Caleb is the name that seems out of place for the duggars. Why have one baby named that? I know it was before the theme but it doesn’t make sense. 

Joshua and Caleb are two names that go together in the Bible. They were faithful spies, I believe. I think the miscarriage was after Joshua, so the two names do sort of go together, before they started their name theme. 

Incidentally, Joshua and Caleb are also popular twin names - SSA used to publish a list of the most common twin names, and Joshua and Caleb was number 11 for boy/boy twins. So they do "go together". 

Edited by SorenaJ
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Posted (edited)

I also noticed that Fundies tend to give names out of place with the rest of their names.  I miscarried at the end of my first trimester and found out it was a girl and gave her a name that I otherwise wouldn't have used but felt that it had special meaning.  I give them a bit of a pass since it's probably part of the grief process. 

 

Edited by JMO
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1 hour ago, OHFL2009 said:

There's another L at the end, so maybe Hal-ellie? According to babynames.com it's a female name of Hebrew origin meaning Praise God, so pretty on brand. It's not ranked on either of the popularity charts linked from that site. The Webster girls all have cutesy spellings, but they are all fairly common spellings of common names, as opposed to the (apparently) traditional spelling of an almost unheard of name. 

I don't know that they ever said how far along she was when she miscarried, so it's possible they knew the sex.

 

Many people are now doing DNA testing on miscarried tissue to look for chromosomal issues. It’s entirely possible they know it was a girl.

Also, it really does help some people to name the miscarriage. My mom always felt her miscarried baby was a girl, and named it accordingly. It definitely helped her to do so.

 

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1 hour ago, theotherelise said:

I read the summary on duggardata and thought this point was interesting:

"After Jeremy asked for permission to get to know Jinger, Jim Bob didn’t give his permission for 5 Months.  During this time, they spoke by phone weekly and discussed theology.  Jim Bob was worried about theological differences between Jeremy and the Duggars, and thought it might be a “dealbreaker” for Jinger + Jeremy."

So it sounds like Jeremy had to talk to Boob every week for 5 months before he was allowed to get to know Jinger and the theological differences were a potential deal breaker. It has always been a bit of a mystery why the Duggs were okay with Jeremy's reformed theology. I really wonder if Jeremy had to lie about any of his beliefs ie family planning and KJV. 

"Because of this, Jinger started to worry that courting Jeremy might be a source of conflict and tension in the family.  Right as Jim Bob decided it was actually fine, and Jeremy could court Jinger, Jinger freaked out and decided she couldn’t be with him because it was too “divisive.”  Jeremy, Jim Bob, and Michelle managed to change Jinger’s mind and everything was back on track, like, two days later."

I'm not a fan of Jinger, but I would chip in some money for her to get some therapy. There are so many markers for Dependent Personality Disorder and/or other anxiety conditions. My heart breaks thinking about the little girls who were told their trauma must be forgiven and forgotten. 

Back in my fundie days, I remember there being a stir over Jinger & Jeremy’s relationship due to his theology. People gossiped about it a lot. What never made sense to me was that there was not a similar concern over Ben, who I’m pretty sure holds very similar theological beliefs as Jeremy.  Ben was the one who was initially friends with Jeremy and introduced him to the Duggars, after all. Is it because Jeremy was older and possibly more set in his ways, and Ben came across as open-minded and impressionable?  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, theotherelise said:

I read the summary on duggardata and thought this point was interesting:

"After Jeremy asked for permission to get to know Jinger, Jim Bob didn’t give his permission for 5 Months.  During this time, they spoke by phone weekly and discussed theology.  Jim Bob was worried about theological differences between Jeremy and the Duggars, and thought it might be a “dealbreaker” for Jinger + Jeremy."

So it sounds like Jeremy had to talk to Boob every week for 5 months before he was allowed to get to know Jinger and the theological differences were a potential deal breaker. It has always been a bit of a mystery why the Duggs were okay with Jeremy's reformed theology. I really wonder if Jeremy had to lie about any of his beliefs ie family planning and KJV. 

"Because of this, Jinger started to worry that courting Jeremy might be a source of conflict and tension in the family.  Right as Jim Bob decided it was actually fine, and Jeremy could court Jinger, Jinger freaked out and decided she couldn’t be with him because it was too “divisive.”  Jeremy, Jim Bob, and Michelle managed to change Jinger’s mind and everything was back on track, like, two days later."

I'm not a fan of Jinger, but I would chip in some money for her to get some therapy. There are so many markers for Dependent Personality Disorder and/or other anxiety conditions. My heart breaks thinking about the little girls who were told their trauma must be forgiven and forgotten. 

Jinger was a fully grown adult at this point and couldn't date someone seriously without permission from her dad. I know we know this is how courting works, but reading her account just makes it more real to me how absolutely wild this is.

The women living at home really don't get to make their own decisions until they get married (at which point their husband has to approve, but one imagines the women now have more influence).

 

Edited by seraaa
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8 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

Article in People about "the worst trial the family had and made peace with." This about when the first molestation came to public knowledge. 

https://people.com/tv/jinger-duggar-recalls-the-moment-brother-josh-past-molestation-scandal-was-made-public-in-2015/

I can imagine it was awful to have this thing you sincerely believed was in the past suddenly become public knowledge, and to have old turmoil stirred up. You have to deal with the feelings related to he incident itself, and on top of that, the feelings of exposure and vulnerability because everybody knows.

 

Quote

"now that it was out in public," Jinger writes, "the old wound was open again, raw, painful.

It's also bad luck that this lastest thing has exploded now, just as they're trying to sell their book. If I were her, I'd honesty be seeking counselling or something to discuss all of this. Most reality TV kids probably need therapy, anyway.

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Posted (edited)

All I've learned about Jinger through the discussions about their little book is that she is her parent's child. 

Daddy had to tell Jeremy Jinger couldn't start a relationship with him? Really? I mean, I know they operate in a f*cked up manner in that family, but Jinger went off to cry & daddy had a conversation with Jeremy? Then he had pictures of himself taken? 

If your chosen boyfriend has to jump through hoops for daddy so you don't get hurt, you should probably not have strung the dude along or allowed yourself to feel anything. Isn't courting supposed to prevent that? If you had issues with it, take it up with your father. 

She felt "re victimized" by Josh's actions coming out years later, splashed in the media, blah, blah, blah. When they splashed their entire cult lives across television & magazines for years & years? I don't normally think of myself as a callus person, but it comes with the territory. If you're gonna' make yourselves famous for your courting & backwards religion, you can't run from the ugly parts. And if you're gonna' be mad at anyone, it should be your freaking parents who put your family in the spotlight knowing what the skeletons were in their own damn closet. It's her parents that put her in that position. t's her parents that didn't handle it in a healthy manner when it happened. It's her parents that made the family a media staple. 

Basically, today I have learned "poor Jinger". 

*barf*

Edited by fundiefan
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their ghostwriter, Bethany Mauger:

 

http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/authors/bethany-mauger/3366

 

"Baker Publishing Group publishes high-quality writings that represent historic Christianity and serve the diverse interests and concerns of evangelical readers.

Bethany House has been publishing high-quality books for more than 60 years. From humble beginnings as the publishing arm of a missions organization, we are now a division of Baker Publishing Group, the industry’s largest independent Christian book publisher."

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4 hours ago, theotherelise said:

<snip>

I'm not a fan of Jinger, but I would chip in some money for her to get some therapy. There are so many markers for Dependent Personality Disorder and/or other anxiety conditions. My heart breaks thinking about the little girls who were told their trauma must be forgiven and forgotten. 

Given what we now know about Jill recognising herself as a 'people pleaser', and that the therapist she's been seeing has been helping her with her boundaries, I think it's not too much of a leap to say that her sisters might well feel the same. I don't like to diagnose anything in Jinger specifically but the whole fundie model of marriage/relationships and family is a recipe for codependency. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Duggar girls suffer from the kind of anxiety to please that Jill has started to articulate, the fear of upsetting others or disrupting, the conviction that to go against the grain is to be disliked, and that to be disliked is the worst possible thing.

That's how they've been raised, particularly the four eldest girls who from childhood were expected to take on gigantic caring responsibilities as well as modelling perfect Gothardite behaviour not only within their family and community, but to the world via ...KAC. They must have felt huge pressure to please and to fit in. I think Jinger still struggles with that immensely.

And as far as Jeremy is concerned - he may well have thought that once he'd freed her from her father's house, she'd start stepping into her own personality and become this cool, free, confident instagram girl. She probably did a really good job of mimicking it? But what she's done is switch from one presentation to another, in line with what she believes is expected of her - and furthermore required of her in order to be worthy of Jeremy's love or anyone's esteem. She's changed, certainly, but it might be no less of a strain for her, she may still have zero idea of how to just be herself. I don't blame her for that. It's a scary, scary thing to do, and impossible if you don't have the psychological tools for it. I hope she has found her own value and confidence, I'm just aware that it's breathtakingly hard to manage such a thing.

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