Jinjer 56: Oh My Stars It's a Reality Show Book! How Surprising - Not

[Dandruff]

11 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Ya'll please help me with my math. Rumors in the media have said JB is worth 3.5 million. If this is so, how much is that divided by 19 kids and Michelle? We can also be certain JB has a kick ass life insurance policy. I'm not a math wiz, but I just don't see how that money will go far. Hopefully I'm totally wrong.

It's possible they're worth a lot more than that - who knows?  I'm assuming the Duggars still have the cell phone tower on their property, are collecting rent from their warehouse and some of their residential units, are at least breaking even with Duggar Aviation, are making money selling used cars, and those are ventures we're aware of.  While I'm no fan of JB, my sense is that he's a much savvier businessman than the 'aw shucks' persona he has presented on the show.

I still think that Josh's legal bills are making a painful dent, however, in both their current finances and whatever future media $$s they may hope to collect.  Reputation matters when you're profiting from being (supposedly) wholesome religious folk.

Not sure how much help the kids might be needing and getting from their parents.  If housing is largely taken care of, are they mostly earning enough to cover their expenses in a relatively low-cost area?

[viii]

If Jim Bob died, I think all the money would just go to Michelle and perhaps some of the older boys (Josh, JD and Joe). I don’t think he’d leave money for any of the daughters. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, viii said:

If Jim Bob died, I think all the money would just go to Michelle and perhaps some of the older boys (Josh, JD and Joe). I don’t think he’d leave money for any of the daughters. 

A lot of families have it set up that way.  Remaining spouse gets everything and their will dispenses to the kids when they pass.  This is how most married people I know who are biological parents to all their kids do it (well, the ones who've discussed it with me. I don't go around asking people about their wills.)

I hope he's also leaving her the contact info of whomever handles their financials because I can't imagine the state Michelle would be in if he died.  It's always heartbreaking when someone loses a spouse but with their degree of co-dependence it would probably feel more like losing a limb.

[Coconut Flan]

They seem to have a considerable amount of their estate in trusts so Michelle should theoretically already know most of what is going on.  

[jakesykora]

21 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

<snip>

 

Jinger talked about that w/Jessa(that J&B were newlyweds and Jinge wasn’t sure how much contact they would or should have.). But for people who say they are all so close and each other’s BFF, they don’t seem to know each other that well. Jeremy was always asking Jessa about her and Jessa was always like I don’t know or I’ll ask her. 

Ok, I'm reading this summary as Jessa and Ben were the newlyweds and Jinger wasn't sure how much contact she should/would have with Jessa when she first got married.  And that Jeremy thought it was strange that Jessa didn't seem to know her BFF sister Jinger that well or talk to her often.

But two other people below seemed to have taken it as it was when Jinger and Jeremy got married that he made her cut off contact.

Any chance you clarify which it was since you read/skimmed the book?

 Obviously if it was how the others took it, that Jeremy made Jinger limit contact with Jessa I'd agree that's concerning...but I'm reading it as you're saying Jeremy thought Jessa's actions/limiting her contact with Jinger/not knowing Jinger well post-marriage was odd (in which case, as much as I don't want to, I agree with him)

[baldricks_turnip]

I wonder if the cult discourages married people from socialising intimately with unmarried people so that they do not discuss marital relations and stir up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled.

[AprilQuilt]

16 hours ago, Cam said:

It’s probably stipulated in their book contract that they have to do x amount of promoting their book. The contract may even go so far as to state that they must present themselves as a loving and fun-loving couple to the public and that they’re not not permitted to separate or divorce until a certain amount of time has passed so as not to interfere with book sales.

This I really doubt. I am almost certain that I've received far higher advances from publishers than JinJer did for this book, and even as a lead debut you aren't asked to do this and they absolutely cannot make legal stipulations about your personal life. They also don't care that much. Plus it would be unethical. It really helps if you work very hard at publicity, and you will be strongly advised to put a lot into it for X amount of time, and be very available for tours and also whatever ad hoc stuff comes up, but they can't force you and they have other means of creating publicity. At the end of the day, the publisher buys the book, not the author. They aren't even employing JinJer.

There may well be something in the contract about it being revoked, advance claimed back etc if you do something really shitty that brings the publisher into disrepute, eg hate speech, inciting violence, blah blah blah... so if they chose to publicly stand up and defend Josh's CSA habit they might land in hot water. But I strongly doubt they would ever do that anyway.

[redshoes]

10 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I wonder if the cult discourages married people from socialising intimately with unmarried people so that they do not discuss marital relations and stir up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled.

I vaguely recall some discussion that you're not seen as an adult in the cult until you are married, so socializing with your unmarried siblings post marriage probably has that added layer. 

[Tdoc72]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:32 PM, jakesykora said:

Ok, I'm reading this summary as Jessa and Ben were the newlyweds and Jinger wasn't sure how much contact she should/would have with Jessa when she first got married.  And that Jeremy thought it was strange that Jessa didn't seem to know her BFF sister Jinger that well or talk to her often.

But two other people below seemed to have taken it as it was when Jinger and Jeremy got married that he made her cut off contact.

Any chance you clarify which it was since you read/skimmed the book?

 Obviously if it was how the others took it, that Jeremy made Jinger limit contact with Jessa I'd agree that's concerning...but I'm reading it as you're saying Jeremy thought Jessa's actions/limiting her contact with Jinger/not knowing Jinger well post-marriage was odd (in which case, as much as I don't want to, I agree with him)

Jinger mentioned that when Jessa & Ben got married, she (Jinge) wasn’t sure how much contact she (Jinge) could or would have with them (Jessa & Ben) & worried about it. But everything worked itself out and they still talked and stuff. 
The Jeremy thing was me thinking it was odd since Jinger and Jessa were soooo close, yet Jessa didn’t seem to know anything about Jinger when Jeremy asked. Jeremy didn’t say anything about either topic. I hope I clarified it.

On 5/16/2021 at 9:49 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

A lot of families have it set up that way.  Remaining spouse gets everything and their will dispenses to the kids when they pass.  This is how most married people I know who are biological parents to all their kids do it (well, the ones who've discussed it with me. I don't go around asking people about their wills.)

I hope he's also leaving her the contact info of whomever handles their financials because I can't imagine the state Michelle would be in if he died.  It's always heartbreaking when someone loses a spouse but with their degree of co-dependence it would probably feel more like losing a limb.

My parents resist any will talk, saying that when one goes, the other will get everything. Then they claim the remaining spouse will make a will. They poo-poo me when I ask about a living will or what if they pass together, despite me saying that the four of us kids never agree on anything and we should know what to do.  For example, I know my mom wants to be cremated but who knows if my sibs will agree. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Tdoc72

[Cat Damon]

13 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

My parents resist any will talk, saying that when one goes, the other will get everything. Then they claim the remaining spouse will make a will. They poo-poo me when I ask about a living will or what if they pass together, despite me saying that the four of us kids never agree on anything and we should know what to do.  For example, I know my mom wants to be cremated but who knows if my sibs will agree. 

I lost my mom about a year and a half ago, and she didn't have a will. I don't want to scare you, but it was an absolute nightmare. My parents were divorced, so it's different from your parents' situation, but please continue to encourage or pressure them to get their affairs in order. Even if it's just having all the important documents, statements, and passwords in a folder in their bedroom.

I have one sibling and we were pretty well-aligned on stuff, but I'm STILL dealing with random things because my mom never took the time to get her ish together and make any kind of plan. Maybe tell them that it doesn't have to be for them, but for you guys to make one thing easy during what will be a really tough and highly emotional time. I've told all my friends (most of us are in our mid-30s without kids) to even have a general plan, and to make sure they know their parents' wishes and where all the documents are located. It really made a bad time so much worse for my sister and I, and I don't want anyone else to have to go through that.

Sorry for the wall of text, I just really feel that this is so important.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Cat Damon
grammar

[Not that josh's mom]

My husband died in early March. We had wills, living wills, powers of attorney, medical powers of attorney. We had talked about how we wanted things handled-from hospital care to funerals. We have one son and he was a tremendous help,  but he already knew where most papers were and what plans we'd made. Even with all that, there were things we didn't know and had to figure out. Do make a will, powers of attorney, living wills - do them all! NOW! You will be grateful. When someone dies, no matter how well prepared you are, your mind turns to mush every once in a while. 

[Chickenbutt]

To the wills, POA's etc.....parents of minor children. Please make guardianship arrangements for your kids. Discuss with your spouse who would raise your kids should the unthinkable happen? Do you want his elderly parents? Your crazy mom? Or your stable brother and his long term spouse who have children about your kids age raising your kids? 

[Not that josh's mom]

6 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

To the wills, POA's etc.....parents of minor children. Please make guardianship arrangements for your kids. Discuss with your spouse who would raise your kids should the unthinkable happen? Do you want his elderly parents? Your crazy mom? Or your stable brother and his long term spouse who have children about your kids age raising your kids? 

My husband and I married when my son was ten. We stopped at the lawyers office on our way out of town for our honeymoon to sign our wills. We wanted to know that if we died on our honeymoon, he would be in a loving, familiar situation and well cared for.

My niece has a 12 year old by a sperm donor dad. She has no will. Scares me silly and I mention more often than I should that she needs to do something. 

[Chickenbutt]

We had designated guardianship papers done just weeks after our oldest was born. It was written as "Baby Chickenbutt and any subsequent children" so it only had to be done once regardless of how many kids we had. 

There was a bit of a conflict with grandparents and some siblings, but we chose who we thought best to raise the kids and everyone got over it. It was a serious discussion with the sibling we chose and they accepted the responsibility. 

[Cat Damon]

19 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

To the wills, POA's etc.....parents of minor children. Please make guardianship arrangements for your kids. Discuss with your spouse who would raise your kids should the unthinkable happen? Do you want his elderly parents? Your crazy mom? Or your stable brother and his long term spouse who have children about your kids age raising your kids? 

This is sort of funny now, but my dad and his siblings - there are 19 grandchildren in my generation and all fairly close in age, there's about 14 years between the oldest and youngest - unknowingly all picked the same sister and brother-in-law as guardians back in the day, so if something had happened, we all would have been under the same roof. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Cat Damon

[Chickenbutt]

1 minute ago, Cat Damon said:

This is sort of funny now, but my dad and his siblings - there are 19 people in my generation and all fairly close in age, there's about 14 years between the oldest and youngest - unknowingly all picked the same sister and brother-in-law as guardians back in the day, so if something had happened, we all would have been under the same roof. 

Hopefully they had a big house and agreed to take all the kids. But it is a testament to how highly the family thought of their parenting skills.

[Cat Damon]

1 minute ago, Chickenbutt said:

Hopefully they had a big house and agreed to take all the kids. But it is a testament to how highly the family thought of their parenting skills.

They absolutely would have had to move lol, but yes they agreed to it and they are probably everyone's favorite aunt and uncle to this day.

[Not that josh's mom]

I was the person designated by my sister and BIL to take their five children. I was more than willing and we could have managed,. but I will admit I breathed a sigh of relief when they all became of age. Even now with their parents both gone and many miles between us, I am still their go to person when they want advice. Maybe not so much advice as venting frustrations.They are between 50 and 60 years old.  

 

[Cat Damon]

I just thought I'd add that after the whole thing with my mom, it did light a fire under my dad's ass to get his affairs in order. My parents were/are not old, not even 60 yet. He bought a book called "I'm Dead, Now What?" to help him do end-of-life planning and said it was really, really helpful. Just thought I'd throw that out there for anyone who doesn't know where to start, or maybe needs to help get someone else started on it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Not that josh&#x27;s mom said:

My husband died in early March. We had wills, living wills, powers of attorney, medical powers of attorney. We had talked about how we wanted things handled-from hospital care to funerals. We have one son and he was a tremendous help,  but he already knew where most papers were and what plans we'd made. Even with all that, there were things we didn't know and had to figure out. Do make a will, powers of attorney, living wills - do them all! NOW! You will be grateful. When someone dies, no matter how well prepared you are, your mind turns to mush every once in a while. 

I am so sorry.

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Not that josh&#x27;s mom said:

My husband died in early March. We had wills, living wills, powers of attorney, medical powers of attorney. We had talked about how we wanted things handled-from hospital care to funerals. We have one son and he was a tremendous help,  but he already knew where most papers were and what plans we'd made. Even with all that, there were things we didn't know and had to figure out. Do make a will, powers of attorney, living wills - do them all! NOW! You will be grateful. When someone dies, no matter how well prepared you are, your mind turns to mush every once in a while. 

I am very sorry for your loss, too.

[postscript]

Piling on to the will/power of attorney discussion, both as an attorney and as someone who’s recently lost a parent. My mother was very organized, had her will and powers of attorney in order, discussed her wishes with her children. The one thing she didn’t do was add one of us to her accounts. When Alzheimer’s hit, she became uncooperative and having to take over her accounts was a nightmare. She passed last fall and I now have to do all of that again because the power of attorney ended at death. The fact that I’m still processing the whole thing and am struggling with depression has made things even more challenging. Even an uncomplicated estate feels like a mountain. 

Don’t assume your state/province’s intestacy statutes will automatically distribute assets the way you want. Each jurisdiction is different, and they often split the estate between surviving spouses, parents, siblings and children. Mine, for example, would give some of my estate to a person whom I don’t want to receive anything. 

[feministxtian]

I had the "talk" with my kids not long ago. They know I want to be cremated and buried w/David. Whatever money I leave behind would go to the grandchildren, probably enough for them to go on a shopping spree one afternoon. My daughter would take my critters if they outlive me. My kids can fight over my "stuff". 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, postscript said:

Piling on to the will/power of attorney discussion, both as an attorney and as someone who’s recently lost a parent. My mother was very organized, had her will and powers of attorney in order, discussed her wishes with her children. The one thing she didn’t do was add one of us to her accounts. When Alzheimer’s hit, she became uncooperative and having to take over her accounts was a nightmare. She passed last fall and I now have to do all of that again because the power of attorney ended at death. The fact that I’m still processing the whole thing and am struggling with depression has made things even more challenging. Even an uncomplicated estate feels like a mountain. 

Don’t assume your state/province’s intestacy statutes will automatically distribute assets the way you want. Each jurisdiction is different, and they often split the estate between surviving spouses, parents, siblings and children. Mine, for example, would give some of my estate to a person whom I don’t want to receive anything. 

I am so sorry for the loss of your mom.  I also second everything you said.

My parents were divorced for over 20 years when my mom was dying of cancer and she hadn't done any estate planning so my dad, Mr. Organized, took her out to lunch and they pre-planned and pre-paid at the local funeral home, he made sure my sister had the deed to their cemetery plots, and he paid and pushed her to get a will done to make it easier on us.

I cannot tell you how surreal it was to see my parents, who did not speak except out of necessity for almost my entire life, walk into the house holding hands so excited to tell us what they'd been up to.  We didn't know at the time my dad was going to die 4 months later and I cannot tell you how much easier they made it for us.

We did make one change though for my dad.  Both he and my mom were adamant about not spending money on a decorative container for their ashes as they were going to be buried after cremation.  He had the money but insert rant about how they guilt you into spending money on something no one will ever see and vultures preying on grieving families, etc.  However, because of this when my mom died they gave us her ashes to take to the cemetery in what looked like an empty Nestle Quick container without the label.  It was too late to do anything and we were mortified so we wrapped one of her favorite silk scarves around it for burial.  

When we went back a couple months later to bury dad we spent the $800 + on a wooden box.  If there is an afterlife we are so going to hear about that from him.  (Well, I won't because I'm the baby and never blamed for anything...but the others will get an earful!)

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Adding to the guardianship discussion...check in with your proposed guardians from time to time on whether or not they are still willing to take your kids. My in laws up and decided one day they were no longer willing to take ours although they are not little kids. So that definitely changed things and we made those changes when we updated our trust.

Recommend a trust, and not just wills, if you have significant assets. It will make it easier on your guardians since 1) you avoid probate and 2) you can elect a third party to manage it when you’re gone rather than burdening a family member.