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Jinger 56: Oh My Stars It's a Reality Show Book! How Surprising - Not


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crawfishgirl

I didn't listen to much classical music when I was younger, but when my kids were born, we played a lot of the Baby Mozart DVDs, Baby Beethoven, etc., and I developed an interest in it.  I realize that the music for those videos was 'baby-ized', but I started listening to the adult versions.

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Now full time pastor in Laredo and living there. He wanted to visit Bessa in summer 2015 but it wasn’t a good time. Bessa visited Houston for an event and went to visit Jeremy. 

That's at least a five hour drive, so it's not a quick side trip.

I am shocked that anyone would complete a 50 page form just for permission to get to know someone.  Once a person has invested that much time and energy, they are too far into it to turn back.

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His mum does seem very nice and is no doubt talented. I keep thinking of Jeremy as like Lady Catherine in Pride and Prejudice’ had I learned to play piano, I would have been excellent’

Right? Him emailing his entire school to say he is a Christian is the most Jeremy thing I’ve read in this book   

OMG, guys, this excerpt from the book on Jeremy's insta is killing me - could he be more pretentious if he tried? 🤣🤣🤣

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SassyPants
26 minutes ago, crawfishgirl said:

I didn't listen to much classical music when I was younger, but when my kids were born, we played a lot of the Baby Mozart DVDs, Baby Beethoven, etc., and I developed an interest in it.  I realize that the music for those videos was 'baby-ized', but I started listening to the adult versions.

That's at least a five hour drive, so it's not a quick side trip.

I am shocked that anyone would complete a 50 page form just for permission to get to know someone.  Once a person has invested that much time and energy, they are too far into it to turn back.

Just another example of how ridiculous and out of touch JB’s methods are!

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OldFadedStar

Chapters 11-12

Spoiler

Pressed but not crushed 

 

Jeremy was pissed about Jinger not being interested. Felt like a bait and switch.  Ben and Jeremy ended up driving a hour and half to a cemetery while Jessa talked to Jinger. Infamous “take a picture of me. I’ve been on a journey”.  Jinger “was confused and couldn’t do it” 

 

What’s jingers thoughts on all this?

Jeremy asked Jinger why. She said I don’t know which confused Jeremy. Then Jinger said that their relationship would cause division. So Jeremy didn’t take this as she wasn’t interested, he took it as there was still a chance so he was gonna stay and fight for her. 

 

Jeremy calls Jinger cold hearted in his journal. 

 

Ben and Jeremy were sitting at A table eating breakfast. jB and Meech join and they have a theological discussion for 7 hours about theology. He said he answered every question they had about his belief on Gods sovereignty. Spent three hours on 2 Corinthians 5 which will be shared in the other spoiler. 

 

Jinger joined them at this table. She ends up spilling why she rejected him: she didn’t want to cause division in her community by choosing someone of a different theological background. Not because of the differences but others options on her being with someone with these differences. 

 

JinJerm and JB and Meech talked for two hours next day and at the end, JB says he realized he should let them be together after hearing someone hum come thou fount. He admits he talked to three pastors about Jeremys doctrine. JB effectively gives his blessing then asks Jinger and she says yes. 

 

 

Going the Distance 

Jeremy told Jinger he loved her before he left Big Sandy 

Jinger set up a bed in the prayer closet so she could get to bed early enough so she could wake up at 6am to have a Bible study with Jeremy every morning.  They also listened to the lectures that JB sent during Jeremys interrogation. They face timed every night. 

First trip to AR after big sandy is when they became official. Prob what we saw on tlc 

 

“Jinger was under contract and obligated to be on the show” Jeremy was apprehensive about being on the show.

 

They knew they wouldn’t be dating long before getting married.  They even talked to JB about it. She didn’t know when but she expected soonish. Well they ended up in New York and got engaged.

Spoiler

2 Corinthians 5

“For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

 

 

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JMO

I couldn't honestly come up with 50 questions much less 5 pages of questions for someone.  Did he get into how he takes his coffee and whether he squeezes the toothpaste from the bottom or the top?  

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Meggo
31 minutes ago, JMO said:

I couldn't honestly come up with 50 questions much less 5 pages of questions for someone.  Did he get into how he takes his coffee and whether he squeezes the toothpaste from the bottom or the top?  

crunchy peanut butter or smooth - also a big thing. 
I honestly don't know who would have a 7 hour debate and have to consult three different pastors on the person who POSSIBLY wants to date someone. Like - oh my god - shoot me now.

 

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Coconut Flan
4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

And wasn’t it nearly a 3 hour drive, one way? That told me all I needed toknow about Ben’s parents. Who drives their minor kid to stalk a Duggar, and then let’s him move into their house? 

It's about 3.5 to 4 hours so they either spent the night or had a very, very long day.  They went for multiple Sundays IIRC.

4 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Jeremy probably leans Calvinist and the Duggars probably lean Armenian (theology terms, not ethnicity). Just Google the terms and there will be a lot.

Jeremy definitely leans Calvinist.  The sermon I heard when I went to MacArthur's church was completely pre-destination.  

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OldFadedStar
4 minutes ago, Meggo said:

crunchy peanut butter or smooth - also a big thing. 
I honestly don't know who would have a 7 hour debate and have to consult three different pastors on the person who POSSIBLY wants to date someone. Like - oh my god - shoot me now.

 

RIGHT? Like, I'm a Christian so I can understand how there could be some theological differences that could be deal breakers. I dont agree with what some people say are deal breakers but ya know, I can see it. But I dont see how that issue could be THAT big of a deal. It doesn't affect daily life all that much. I'm gonna do some more research on this though just for my own knowledge. 

I could not imagine debating theology for seven hours.. that sounds boring to me. Especially it being just one topic. 

I also couldn't imagine spending hours every day in the Bible like both of them talk about multiple times. 

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G33kywife

I get that Calvinists and Arminians have some pretty big differences in how they view doctrine, but none of it pertains to anything that Christians consider “primary essentials.” I have studied both viewpoints extensively, and I understand that some people are super passionate about one side or another. I just can’t see how choosing to marry someone from a different side would cause division. It seems like Jinger has an extreme people pleaser personality and was terrified of causing waves. Sad. 

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Satan'sFortress
16 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

Jeremy and JB talked every Friday going over the answers. JB invited Jeremy to AR and they went to lunch with JB pastor to discuss theology.

I don't know which one of them got the worst out of this deal.  The thought of having deep theological discussions with either of these two, weekly, for months, makes me want to run away as fast as I can.

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SassyPants

It almost sounds as if Jeremy has attempted to atone for his past grievous behaviors and choices by choosing to pay his penitence by being yolked to a Duggar, and jumping on Puppeteer JB’s strings.

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Aithuia
2 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

“The email included an attached word document. I opened it to find 50 pages of questions. Not 50 questions 50 pages. My eyes widen as I scroll through what looked like the longest job application I’ve ever filled out. He said he wanted to go spend some time getting to know me unless document shows he wasn’t kidding.… This wasn’t something I could knock out in a few moments this was serious and I approached it that way Mr. Duggar wanted to know me if he wanted me to answer all these questions I’d do it. “ 

Jeremy also claims to have written the whole thing (57 pages) on a 3 hour flight. Not that I would expect much thoughtful consideration or self-examination from Jeremy anyway, but to have any chance at answering 50 pages of questions in 3 hours, I think you'd have to:

1. Not think critically/deliberately about any of the questions (which checks out)

2. Not think at all about what you're writing and go with the first thing that pops into your head (again, that tracks)

3. Not edit anything or ever second-guess your thoughts (also on brand)

Either he's doing the above, or he was answering everything in 48pt font with double spacing and enormous margins. 🤷‍♀️

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Idlewild

This whole negotiation thing is awful- how can Jinger be happy with being traded like a commodity? And Jeremy is just using it as an opportunity to be smug by telling the world how he talked round Jim Bob Duggar. They’re both as bad as each other.

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G33kywife
4 minutes ago, Aithuia said:

Either he's doing the above, or he was answering everything in 48pt font with double spacing and enormous margins. 🤷‍♀️

I’m picturing lots of old school Word Art 🤣

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AnywhereButHere
1 hour ago, JMO said:

I couldn't honestly come up with 50 questions much less 5 pages of questions for someone.  Did he get into how he takes his coffee and whether he squeezes the toothpaste from the bottom or the top?  

Which way should the toilet paper go on the holder! These are important things to know! 😄

My husband asked my dad for his "permission" more as a tradition than anything else. While my dad had no questionnaire of any sort, I think he may have wanted one, as years later, he (jokingly - maybe...) came to me and said "If I'd known he was a democrat and an atheist..." while shaking his head a lot. 😂

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Aithuia
6 minutes ago, G33kywife said:

I’m picturing lots of old school Word Art 🤣

image.png.61ceb66123d419440331c9ef227cd020.png

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fluffernutter

My son in law doesn't like cheese OR chocolate. Damn it all my best recipes center around those two things. Now I know, gotta put it in the questionnaire for the next possible suitor. (just kidding, he has allergy issues, and it leaves more for the rest of us 🤣)

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Marionette
18 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

Jessa told Jeremy to go on this mission trip to get to know Jinger better and the whole family. 

Do y’all know how many people went on these ducking SOS mission trips to get close to the Duggars? I know of one girl who was a fan of them, and she went to FUCKING CENTRAL AMERICA to become friends with them.... and it WORKED. She was henceforth invited to all the weddings, graduations, and other big parties. Sorry for the caps, but some of this shit continues to blow me away. It’s one thing to go to Big Sandy, TX, but—out of the country?! Also just an indication of white privilege/saviorism...

I already couldn’t stand Jeremy, but this book makes him look so much worse. They thought writing this book would somehow be uplifting, but it’s just revealing how fucked up their world is. And it makes it more clear that Jeremy is controlling and manipulative. 

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Marionette
2 hours ago, G33kywife said:

I get that Calvinists and Arminians have some pretty big differences in how they view doctrine, but none of it pertains to anything that Christians consider “primary essentials.” I have studied both viewpoints extensively, and I understand that some people are super passionate about one side or another. I just can’t see how choosing to marry someone from a different side would cause division. It seems like Jinger has an extreme people pleaser personality and was terrified of causing waves. Sad. 

(Sorry to double-post, I’m on mobile.) 

Maybe it’s because I grew up IFB, but the differences were always a big deal. Even after leaving fundamentalism, I am still a Christian and find it a big deal. Now I personally believe God chose everyone, and I could not fathom believing in a god who only chose certain people and damned the rest to hell (Calvinism). Furthermore, Calvinists tend to believe that god literally orchestrates every. single. thing. that happens you, and if you are suffering, it is because he is trying to “get your attention,” and that he BRINGS HIMSELF GLORY through human suffering—which I find very twisted and disgusting. I tend to lean more free will (though I don’t believe you can lose your salvation like Arminians) and consequence than divine providence. 

This is, at least, my experience with Calvinism and Calvinists/Calvinist-influenced people I know. I’ve heard the above ideas (about “god-ordained” suffering and divine intervention) a lot in the Southern Baptist Convention (2nd largest denom in the US), because SBC is heavily influenced by Reformed theology (they read/quote a lot of John Piper, Tim Keller, and John MacArthur). Those beliefs may span over several denominations/groups, but they seem to be rooted in Calvinism.

Anyway, none of this really has a whole lot to do with JinJer, I’m just projecting. Church trauma has been a weird thing to work through. I’m happy to hear anyone else’s thoughts on the matter. 

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meep

Didn't the Duggars form their own home church specifically over tiny littler details they disagreed with at their old church? Or am I misremembering? It might not make sense to us, but it's important to them I guess. 😵

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Marionette
33 minutes ago, meep said:

Didn't the Duggars form their own home church specifically over tiny littler details they disagreed with at their old church? Or am I misremembering? It might not make sense to us, but it's important to them I guess. 😵

Yeah, something like that. And their home church split a few years ago before they started attending the Caldwell church (which split last year, as I’ve stated in several places on FJ). These kinds people think their beliefs are superior and literally can’t stand anyone who has a different viewpoint. My dad was like that, and he constantly “corrected” the pastors of every church we visited (sent them LONG emails about why their sermon was doctrinally “incorrect” or some shit), so we didn’t usually stay at churches for long (also couldn’t stay at churches for long cause members would start to notice he was an abusive father). Fundies & evangelicals want to act like liberals are divisive, but they literally hate their own people and continue to split over trivial things. 

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grandmadugger
8 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

 

 

Jeremy probably leans Calvinist and the Duggars probably lean Armenian (theology terms, not ethnicity). Just Google the terms and there will be a lot.

But Ben was raised Calvinist and he was accepted into the fold. For crying out loud he named his son Spurgeon. 

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redshoes
7 hours ago, viii said:

Jim Bob sending 50 questions and Jeremy sending back 100+ pages of answers makes this whole thing appear like a business transaction. 

I've heard before of Jim Bob's questionnaires which I always felt were creepy, but hearing the details of you cannot even talk to your potential spouse before this. I assumed the questionnaires came some time into a courtship like, you went to Jim Bob to ask for his daughters hand in marriage and then you get the theology/provider/headship questionnaire. This really does treat the daughters like objects to be sold, I would bet the women who have married into this family have not had to have seven hour debates on theology with Jim Bob! 

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Sabine
3 minutes ago, redshoes said:

, I would bet the women who have married into this family have not had to have seven hour debates on theology with Jim Bob! 

Nope they would have several hours with Mochelle telling them how to make sandwiches, please the boys, never say no, never say no, never say no, always be pretty, never say no, always do as you told, never say no, smile, never say no, smile somemore, offer some relaxation before sandwiches, never say no, duggar women always say yes, never say no, and make more sandwiches and pop out one baby after the other until your uterus falls out, but above all never say no, even if your husbands is interested in the sexual violation of tiny humans.  I'd rather discuss theology with boob.

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QuiverFullofBooks

Nowhere in their discussion of the theological conflict does Jinger have any opinion about it. But she’s not supposed to - she believes what Jim Bob believes until she gets married, and then she believes what Jeremy believes. After they got married she had some time on her hands, so she started studying the Bible and borrowing Jeremy’s theology books. So did she have an insight on the big question of free will vs. predestination? Did she reconsider “spare the rod and spoil the child”? Nope, she decided God is totes cool with women wearing pants. (“I had to walk in truth and follow what I knew the Bible said.”)

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RainbowSky

Of course JB sent 50 pages and Jeremy doubled it (plus extra!) to send back! Obviously he's just that good.

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