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Duggars by the Dozen 41: Marrying off the Kidults at the Speed of Light


Coconut Flan

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Having just been to the dentist and witnessed a child (probably 6 or 7) weeping during dental work, then exiting still crying, I can see why an orthodontist might want to be sure a young child was on board. Sounded like something necessary but it was so awful to hear. Pediatric dentistry must take a strong stomach.

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On 6/10/2021 at 11:29 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

When I was a teenager, my orthodontist's office (also my older 3 siblings') had one big room with 4 chairs in it. The orthodontist might get one patient started with a treatment, then move to another patient while something set or dried in the first patient's mouth. No privacy and hopefully no opportunity for anything untoward. My mom waited in the nearby waiting room. 

 

This is pretty much how it is at the orthodontist we go to  There are 8 or so chairs set in a U shape and the dr just goes from chair to chair while the techs do their thing. There is one large consultation room that has room for parents, but that is really just used the first appt. It is also the only room with a door on it that patients use. 

No parents allowed for kids over the age of 10 though (due to Covid). Pre Covid I waited in the waiting room. Now I either wait in the car or more frequently go grocery shopping since it is in the same shopping center as the orthodontist office. 

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I'll never forget taking my son to the dentist when he was 4. The first time  everything was fine. The second time, they called his name, and we got up to go to the exam room. He was walking ahead of me, and the nurse put her arm out to stop me from going back.  She said the kids acted better if the parents weren't there. I was so stunned I couldn't even speak. They hadn't said anything about that last time, and my son had behaved perfectly.  He went on into the room and I didn't even get the chance to say I'd be waiting for him in the waiting room.  About 2 minutes later, I  could hear him crying, and then they came to get me. 🙄 I was so pissed off. I would never have let my 4 year old go back to the doctor by himself, why would it be ok for him to got to the dentist's room alone? WTF? We never went back to that dentist again. I am still mad at myself for not acting immediately. (This was almost 20 years ago.)

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I went to the dentist when I was 4-5. They wouldn’t let my mom in with me and I cried and asked for her. They said if I was good during the X-rays, she could come back afterwards. I behaved perfectly and then asked afterwards if she could come and the dentist told me no. I was so pissed I threw up all over him and bit his finger 😂 We never went back to him. The same appointment he pulled two of my sisters permanent teeth. 🙄

Unfortunately it instilled a deep fear of dentists in me and I’m only now getting over it in my thirties. 

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I took my son to a pediatric dentist when he was three and wasn't allowed to go back with him . I didn't think anything of it and I wasn't upset and neither was he. I never heard him cry and he was cheerful when he came out. He's never had any aversion to dentists.  Perhaps that staff was exceptional?  

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I've never been kept from going with my daughter into the exam room, even during Covid. I'm sorry for all the kids (and parents) who were traumatized,

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4 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I'll never forget taking my son to the dentist when he was 4. The first time  everything was fine. The second time, they called his name, and we got up to go to the exam room. He was walking ahead of me, and the nurse put her arm out to stop me from going back.  She said the kids acted better if the parents weren't there. I was so stunned I couldn't even speak. They hadn't said anything about that last time, and my son had behaved perfectly.  He went on into the room and I didn't even get the chance to say I'd be waiting for him in the waiting room.  About 2 minutes later, I  could hear him crying, and then they came to get me. 🙄 I was so pissed off. I would never have let my 4 year old go back to the doctor by himself, why would it be ok for him to got to the dentist's room alone? WTF? We never went back to that dentist again. I am still mad at myself for not acting immediately. (This was almost 20 years ago.)

I would have bee pissed as well. I always went back with my kids when they were that age. I don't mind my older kids going back by themselves anymore, but I wouldn't have liked a 4 year old. I'm 40 and still get scared at the dentist sometimes. 

2 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I've never been kept from going with my daughter into the exam room, even during Covid. I'm sorry for all the kids (and parents) who were traumatized,

I haven't had issues with not going in the exam room at the doctors office with Covid. But the way the orthodontist office is set up it would be very difficult for them to have social distancing with parents there too. And obviously the patients are unmasked during treatment. 

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13 hours ago, viii said:

I went to the dentist when I was 4-5. They wouldn’t let my mom in with me and I cried and asked for her. They said if I was good during the X-rays, she could come back afterwards. I behaved perfectly and then asked afterwards if she could come and the dentist told me no. I was so pissed I threw up all over him and bit his finger 😂 We never went back to him. The same appointment he pulled two of my sisters permanent teeth. 🙄

Unfortunately it instilled a deep fear of dentists in me and I’m only now getting over it in my thirties. 

I'm in my forties. Still cried through getting set up to get cavities filled and that was with a laser dentist so I didn't even need to be worried about pain or needles.

When I was in my early teens, the dentist insisted I had 6 cavities and that they would not perform the procedure without local anesthesia and gas. Any cavities would have been minute as we faithfully went every 6 months. My brother, then college-age,  went to him a few months later and had 5 cavities. My brother insisted on a second opinion. Only 1 cavity. Pretty sure the dentist saw we had insurance and went for as much as he thought he could get away with.

Edited by nolongerIFBx
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There is no way I would let my children go to a dentist student let parents be in the room. It's just not reasonable kids need their parents even if you're not worried about inappropriate behavior. Separating them from the support group cannot do anything but make them more worried

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47 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

When I was in my early teens, the dentist insisted I had 6 cavities and that they would not perform the procedure without local anesthesia and gas. Any cavities would have been minute as we faithfully went every 6 months. My brother, then college-age,  went to him a few months later and had 5 cavities. My brother insisted on a second opinion. Only 1 cavity. Pretty sure the dentist saw we had insurance and went for as much as he thought he could get away with.

My brother had that issue: went to a new dentist because of an insurance change and got told he had three cavities and was in need of a root canal. Went to his old dentist for a second opinion and got told that he had a cavity and a possible soft spot to keep an eye on. Unsurprisingly, he decided to pay the price difference for sticking with his old dentist after that!

Even during covid, I was never kept away from my kids in the doctor's office. Part of that is probably their young age, but even many of the adult offices I went to noted that they would allow one "support person" for anyone underage/mentally incapable of managing their health. I'd be suspicious of any office that did for the whole appointment (though I see the need, as kids get older/more articulate, for the parents to step out of the room for a minute or two, especially at the child's request).

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My dad was traumatized for the rest of his life by a childhood dental procedure. He had a very high tolerance for painkillers, which of course no one realized when he was a child.

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On 6/15/2021 at 5:58 PM, Satan'sFortress said:

I'll never forget taking my son to the dentist when he was 4. The first time  everything was fine. The second time, they called his name, and we got up to go to the exam room. He was walking ahead of me, and the nurse put her arm out to stop me from going back.  She said the kids acted better if the parents weren't there. I was so stunned I couldn't even speak. They hadn't said anything about that last time, and my son had behaved perfectly.  He went on into the room and I didn't even get the chance to say I'd be waiting for him in the waiting room.  About 2 minutes later, I  could hear him crying, and then they came to get me. 🙄 I was so pissed off. I would never have let my 4 year old go back to the doctor by himself, why would it be ok for him to got to the dentist's room alone? WTF? We never went back to that dentist again. I am still mad at myself for not acting immediately. (This was almost 20 years ago.)

The same thing happened with my oldest daughter when she was around 6, I think? But they didn’t ever come get me (and I couldn’t hear her), and I found out afterwards that they’d strapped her to a board, like in a psychiatric hospital. It still makes me so ragey-angry that I can barely talk about it. And my daughter, who did just FINE at the next dentist who did allow me to come back, still talks about it. We didn’t know it at the time, but she’s autistic, so that was in the mix too.

Parents, don’t ever let any medical professional tell you that you can’t accompany your young children, or disabled older children, if there’s not a life-threatening reason. Like, I’d never try to accompany my daughter into an operating room or even ER if she were in need of expedient critical care, but otherwise I’m there as her advocate.

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16 hours ago, Jasmar said:

The same thing happened with my oldest daughter when she was around 6, I think? But they didn’t ever come get me (and I couldn’t hear her), and I found out afterwards that they’d strapped her to a board, like in a psychiatric hospital.

If your dentist mentions a "papoose board" or "papoosing", that's an indicator you need to find another dentist. This method of restraining unruly children by strapping them to a board has its own terminology because there are many dentists that continue to do it. The internet says Australia has banned papoosing completely, but it's still legal in the US. A few states have put limits on when papoose boards can be used, but they are still allowed.

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1 minute ago, shesinsane said:

If your dentist mentions a "papoose board" or "papoosing", that's an indicator you need to find another dentist. This method of restraining unruly children by strapping them to a board has its own terminology because there are many dentists that continue to do it. The internet says Australia has banned papoosing completely, but it's still legal in the US. A few states have put limits on when papoose boards can be used, but they are still allowed.

I had to be put into a papoose in the ER when I was about 3 because I needed 20+ stitches in the back of my head. My parents were in the room but couldn't get me calm enough for the doctor to stitch me up. My mom still mentions occasionally how awful it was to see me in that thing, 30+ years later. When I needed stitches in my chin a year later (I was a VERY clumsy kid) my mom was able to convince me to stay still so I didn't have to be put back in the papoose. 

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9 minutes ago, shesinsane said:

If your dentist mentions a "papoose board" or "papoosing", that's an indicator you need to find another dentist. This method of restraining unruly children by strapping them to a board has its own terminology because there are many dentists that continue to do it. The internet says Australia has banned papoosing completely, but it's still legal in the US. A few states have put limits on when papoose boards can be used, but they are still allowed.

I was strapped down when I was 3 to get stitches in my chin because I was going nuts on the doctor. I still remember it all very well. I was so pissed about the whole ordeal that I ripped out a stitch with my hands. I will always remember how angry I was. This was 1985 or 86.

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On 6/15/2021 at 11:32 AM, Mama Mia said:

I don’t like how they turned it into a rant against usurping parental authority, and they may have twisted it - but I’d be pissed too if an orthodontist was putting the final decision on something that invasive and costly and complicated and long term on an 8 year old! 

Exactly--Mary would no more have voiced an opinion than fly to the moon. Too ingrained to obey and not think.

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9 hours ago, OHFL2009 said:

I had to be put into a papoose in the ER when I was about 3 because I needed 20+ stitches in the back of my head. My parents were in the room but couldn't get me calm enough for the doctor to stitch me up. My mom still mentions occasionally how awful it was to see me in that thing, 30+ years later. When I needed stitches in my chin a year later (I was a VERY clumsy kid) my mom was able to convince me to stay still so I didn't have to be put back in the papoose. 

I needed a few stitches on my forehead when I was 5 years old, and they used a papoose board as a matter of routine. I remember feeling deeply insulted that they thought I wouldn't follow their directions and lie still. (I was a serious rule follower and a lot of my self-image revolved around my view of myself as a "good kid".)

I held as still as a statue, even though the local anesthetic shot hurt like hell. I wanted to show them that they were wrong to think that I couldn't hold still. I doubt they even noticed.

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When I was little, not sure how old, I apparently freaked out at the dentist’s (maybe an ASD meltdown-type thing, although I hadn’t been diagnosed then) and Mum says that the dentist mentioned needing to use general anaesthetic on me, or something. We switched dentists and the new one (who we’re still with) said that GA was totally unnecessary. 

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On 6/15/2021 at 11:32 AM, Mama Mia said:

I don’t like how they turned it into a rant against usurping parental authority, and they may have twisted it - but I’d be pissed too if an orthodontist was putting the final decision on something that invasive and costly and complicated and long term on an 8 year old! 

It isn’t though. It’s two options that the orthodontist was saying are equally acceptable ways to manage/reduce the pain. And no one else can know the level of pain someone else is experiencing. I think it’s entirely appropriate to defer to an 8 year old to make that decision. She’s the only one who knows how much pain she’s in. AND, it’s good practice in general to teach children to have awareness and autonomy over their own bodies and sensations and to advocate for their own needs. I felt physically nauseated reading the Maxwells’ account of that episode and their completely bonkers “reasoning” about biblical authority and their need to control children. I feel so so sorry for those kids. They’ve never even had a chance. 

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On 6/17/2021 at 1:14 PM, OHFL2009 said:

I had to be put into a papoose in the ER when I was about 3 because I needed 20+ stitches in the back of my head. My parents were in the room but couldn't get me calm enough for the doctor to stitch me up. My mom still mentions occasionally how awful it was to see me in that thing, 30+ years later. When I needed stitches in my chin a year later (I was a VERY clumsy kid) my mom was able to convince me to stay still so I didn't have to be put back in the papoose. 

One of my kids had extremely impulsive adhd, with emphasis on the hyperactive risk taking AND was extremely freaked out at being constrained. SO many trips to the ER and he’d completely panic every time he had to get an x-Ray, or be restrained for stitches. The car seat was also a nightmare. Forget about the dentist. Poor kid ended up needing an awful lot of work done because he just wouldn’t let them near his mouth.  

Still, I wouldn’t give most 8 year olds final say on different medical options. Many of them are going to, naturally, be focusing more on what sounds best short term. They just don’t have the capacity to weigh out the long term pros and cons. Maybe a few VERY mature kids. 
 

 

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The Duggars are back to posting on instagram. They posted a video for Father’s Day. I think this is the first post since the latest Josh scandal broke.

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3 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

The Duggars are back to posting on instagram. They posted a video for Father’s Day. I think this is the first post since the latest Josh scandal broke.

I noticed that. Well done short video of them enjoying some backyard games. Music. No talking. Smiling. All of the younger girls, Jana, a couple of the unmarried younger boys. Extremely pregnant Jessa and Ben, side shot of Joe & Kendra and one other married couple from the back.  Didn’t spot any other of the married /adult kids. No Anna or little M’s . One shot of Garrett on a trike, but interestingly no other little kids / babies. I don’t know who put it together, but they did a good job. No preaching about being a good dad, or anything. Which seems wise. They put the various kid Happy Father’s Day posts in their stories. 

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Didn’t know which Duggar thread to use so I’ll put it here. 
I know my daughter means the clothing brand however it still made me chuckle 

NIKE

 

49225716-BD8A-4F61-8768-E2E805ABCF45.jpeg

Edited by onekidanddone
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The combination of finding out that the entire left side of my mouth does not take anesthesia well and my mother's abuse afterwards gave me a phobia about going to the dentist until I was in my thirties. I have a high pain tolerance (I have chronic pain) but not in my mouth.

Thank God I found a dental practice that will give me Valium so I can get escorted in the door by my husband, then into the chair where if I'm having something other than a cleaning, I get goofy gas, the "special" anesthesia (Sevoflurane?), earphones blasting music and my husband holding my hand (I meant a phobia). Even then, I've lost it a couple of times. 

Our tortie calico had a bright orange caution sticker on her chart at the vet. My husband and I laugh that I have a bright orange sticker on my chart at the dentist. Thank God for caring dentists.

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I wonder if the video is the shape of things to come? If Josh’s continuance request is granted the Duggars could be a long time without a TV show. Are they putting more effort into wholesome content without showing too many unattended small children? They clearly aren’t craving total privacy just yet.

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