Counting On Season 11: How Low Can They Go?

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

In fairness, quite a few of the older kids or their spouses do have jobs.  But that said, I believe they will keep the social media accounts open (if they currently have them) because the money will be too hard to pass up and it is something they can control on their terms, not TLC or Jim Bob's. 

I always think it’s weird when people say they don’t have jobs. They might not look like traditional 9-5 white collar jobs in an office, but I’m sure they’re working at something. I think the annoyance at the show from some of the older guys is because they have to stop work (that they may enjoy) to show up for a dumb family activity that they only ever do during filming but they don’t want to take the Derrick/Jill route to get out of it. I don’t post about my job on my personal social media for a lot of reasons (I do on my business account, but that’s different). The Duggars are pretty typical of small-town southerners where a lot of the kids just go into the family business right after high school. The kid who goes to college and possibly leaves town is the odd one.

[Mama Mia]

45 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

I keep wondering about that. Will the duggars as a whole be able to continue their current lifestyle? Planes, gas to fill said planes, endless travels to weddings and the Gaine’s decorating town or whatever that is, etc. or will it be back to buy used save the difference, selling the properties and the planes for money, things actually getting tight?  I wonder what their financial picture looks like, both the boob and j’chelle, and all the separate adult kids. 

I don’t think it will make a gigantic difference in their lifestyles. Probably less trips, maybe smaller weddings. They own a ton of properties. Someone on here ran the titles once and it’s over 300. Even if only half of those properties are turning a very modest profit of $100 a month — that’s close to $200k. a year. They don’t have mortgages on the places they live in.  Plus what the individual adults make from car sales, tow trucks, construction, house flipping etc etc….and the social media that some do can be very lucrative - or just a side hustle that adds some $ for extras.

I assume they’ll be supporting Anna and family - but housing is free, there won’t be access to endless pricey kids clothes, but they will be fine otherwise. 
 

* just saw Dalmatians post above- agree 100%. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mama Mia

[quiversR4hunting]

7 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I always think it’s weird when people say they don’t have jobs. They might not look like traditional 9-5 white collar jobs in an office, but I’m sure they’re working at something. I think the annoyance at the show from some of the older guys is because they have to stop work (that they may enjoy) to show up for a dumb family activity that they only ever do during filming but they don’t want to take the Derrick/Jill route to get out of it. I don’t post about my job on my personal social media for a lot of reasons (I do on my business account, but that’s different). The Duggars are pretty typical of small-town southerners where a lot of the kids just go into the family business right after high school. The kid who goes to college and possibly leaves town is the odd one.

I know they have jobs but you pointed out the enmeshment of the family - "annoyance at the show from some of the older guys is because they have to stop work" JB put the show above the adult kids desired profession. JB doesn't have a big enough real estate company to employ all his 19 kids and spouses. I know plenty of kids that went into their parents profession after HS - either worked for the family business or did the same line of work (HVAC, builder, pipeline, farmer, teacher, etc.) but they still have their own life away from the parents and siblings. (Some "normal" families also have enmeshment issues but that isn't the point) Time will tell if the show is really done and how the adult kids provide for their own families. 

[DalmatianCat]

Just now, Mama Mia said:

I don’t think it will make a gigantic difference in their lifestyles. Probably less trips, maybe smaller weddings. They own a ton of properties. Someone on here ran the titles once and it’s over 300. Even if only half of those properties are turning a very modest profit of $100 a month — that’s close to $200k. a year. They don’t have mortgages on the places they live in.  Plus what the individual adults make from car sales, tow trucks, construction, house flipping etc etc….

I assume they’ll be supporting Anna and family - but housing is free, there won’t be access to endless pricey kids clothes, but they will be fine otherwise. 

That’s kind of what I was thinking…I’m guessing they don’t live on the show money because it was a very small part of their income anyway. JB probably invests it in who-knows-where and if anyone asked about payment from the show before Jill and Derrick they were told they’d get a return on it “someday”.

I think international trips would be the biggest difference without the show, but I don’t think they’ve done any of those in years. Maybe no more family skiing trips to Colorado?

[quiversR4hunting]

4 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I don’t think it will make a gigantic difference in their lifestyles. Probably less trips, maybe smaller weddings. They own a ton of properties. Someone on here ran the titles once and it’s over 300. Even if only half of those properties are turning a very modest profit of $100 a month — that’s close to $200k. a year. They don’t have mortgages on the places they live in.  Plus what the individual adults make from car sales, tow trucks, construction, house flipping etc etc….

I assume they’ll be supporting Anna and family - but housing is free, there won’t be access to endless pricey kids clothes, but they will be fine otherwise. 

JB & Michelle's lives won't change much. $200k isn't livable to split between 20 different families. If JB has kept all the TLC profits and hasn't set up trusts for the kids then the adult kids must stand on their own. As @SassyPants stated, food, roof overhead (w/plumbing), and transportation are big motivators to work. 

[SassyPants]

16 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I always think it’s weird when people say they don’t have jobs. They might not look like traditional 9-5 white collar jobs in an office, but I’m sure they’re working at something. I think the annoyance at the show from some of the older guys is because they have to stop work (that they may enjoy) to show up for a dumb family activity that they only ever do during filming but they don’t want to take the Derrick/Jill route to get out of it. I don’t post about my job on my personal social media for a lot of reasons (I do on my business account, but that’s different). The Duggars are pretty typical of small-town southerners where a lot of the kids just go into the family business right after high school. The kid who goes to college and possibly leaves town is the odd one.

Well…they market their show as “reality”, although it’s anything but. Wouldn’t someone have thought to occasionally incorporate  them working these phantom jobs into a show? I mean how many dental trips have we seen over the years? I think the Duggars believe that they collectively above working. Working takes away from family time and endlesss babies require as many hands on deck as possible. 4YO Jana wasn’t changing newborn Joe’s, 1YO Jinger’s or 2YO JESSA’s diapers- Nor was she keeping herself, Josh, JD and Jill safe and entertained while Michelle tended the littles-

There’s a reason Zach quit the PD. A real job is a constant demand on your time and energy. 3 kids in and he was out-

Edited June 30, 2021 by SassyPants

[JenniferJuniper]

Boob may have sufficient funds and active businesses to keep his sons afloat for a long time.  However, the grandchildren need to be put in school if they are to have a chance at decent futures.  Their grandfather's wealth will be long gone by the time most are 18, and I'm not sure any of their parents are capable of giving them a 20th century education, never mind a 21st century one.

Ben seems to be the only dependent son-in-law and it will be interesting to see what happens with Jessa.  I can't imagine the plan was to keep her in grandma's old two bedroom as she continues her child collecting. 

[DalmatianCat]

3 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

I know they have jobs but you pointed out the enmeshment of the family - "annoyance at the show from some of the older guys is because they have to stop work" JB put the show above the adult kids desired profession. JB doesn't have a big enough real estate company to employ all his 19 kids and spouses. I know plenty of kids that went into their parents profession after HS - either worked for the family business or did the same line of work (HVAC, builder, pipeline, farmer, teacher, etc.) but they still have their own life away from the parents and siblings. (Some "normal" families also have enmeshment issues but that isn't the point) Time will tell if the show is really done and how the adult kids provide for their own families. 

Yes, they’re definitely enmeshed…but I do think that the show was something that had been in their lives for so long that even when they didn’t enjoy filming, they didn’t know how to get away from it. Based off some of Jill and Anna’s comments I don’t think the family actually does that many fun activities or get togethers when they aren’t being filmed.
So if Joe said for example, “I can’t come to filming I have xyz lined up at work, I’m trying to grow my business.”

Michelle or JB would counter with, “But this is Henry’s birthday party, not just filming, and we haven’t all gotten together in month! How could you miss it??”

So Joe shows up, because it’s the family event that hooks him and he does want to be a good family member even if he’s annoyed that it’s scheduled when he already had work plans.

I’m hopeful this gives the kids who were already over it to figure out a way to set boundaries that are healthy.

[Mama Mia]

I mean a really, really, really large number of people all across the country have perfectly fine lives working in construction, running tow trucks, repairing properties, being handi-men or landscapers or land clearers …….. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elainepofeldt/2020/05/30/survey-nearly-30-of-americans-are-self-employed/?sh=4a8248dc2d21

Add to that the advantages of free housing and living in a very low cost area

[Xanariel]

I'm actually really hopeful this can be a good thing for the kids. 

From what Derick has indicated, the kids weren't necessarily seeing a lot of the money in the first place - JB would hand stuff out intermittently as he pleased, but if the Dillards weren't even aware the show was paying anything, it may not have factored into each family's income as heavily as first thought. 

The men will all have to get jobs, but it looks like most of them have at least something (rather than handing in a bill to JB each month), even if they may have to rethink having massive families. 

Cults are in many ways like being in an abusive relationship, and one aspect of that is the financial control. If the kids are no longer having to arrange their working schedule around filming a show they don't get paid for, and aren't expectant on getting houses and weddings funded through JB, that may give more of them a bit more scope to explore different options. 

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Well…they market their show as “reality”, although it’s anything but. Wouldn’t someone have thought to occasionally incorporate  them working these phantom jobs into a show? I mean how many dental trips have we seen over the years? I think the Duggars believe that they collectively above working.

Eh…the show is far from reality…and showing them inspecting rental properties would require getting permission from tenants to be filmed, if they were residential properties they would have to give the tenets advance notice they were coming for inspection (in my state that would be 30 days and most of the activities filmed did not look like they’d been planned 30 days in advance). 
I don’t think the boys think they’re above work…they’re shown doing lots of manual labor that is physically demanding and exhausting. I think there are many things they are intimidated to do and that is why we haven’t seen many of them in office jobs. They know how to work at hard manual labor jobs. If they wanted something “easy” there are tons of white collar jobs that would be much less physically demanding. They could start as a bank teller, work their way up in the bank for example, and save a lot of wear and tear on their bodies. I don’t think they’ve stayed away from that type work because they’re lazy, but they’re intimidated…or not interested. Who knows?

ETA: Maybe it’s not even that they’re intimidated by a 9-5 job, but they know that mom and dad will be calling them up asking them to use vacation days so they can be filmed going on a date with their wife in the middle of the day, going on a family hike on a weekday, etc. Maybe they’ve been realistic with the options available to them and now that the show is over they’ll have more freedom to put on a tie and show up at an office 40 hours a week…or just start their own business away from the family. I’m guessing several of the kids are secretly relieved. Jana and the kids at home might miss it more than the married kids.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by DalmatianCat
More thoughts and typos

[quiversR4hunting]

I think the Duggar boys think they are above white collar jobs. My grandfather was a farmer, he looked down at men that worked in non-manual jobs like education, lawyer, etc. My dad was a teacher but he was ok because he also farmed. Some people believe all men should work jobs that get your hands and clothes dirty, if you don't then you aren't a real man. For the duggars, I would assume the exception is the right kind of preacher. 

If they follow this line of thinking, a job like constable/police officer, banker, program manager, attorney, etc. would be looked down at but a pipefitter, builder/contractor, HVAC, electrician, landscaping would all be acceptable. In reality, we all know that there is nothing wrong with any of these jobs as long as the person is honest and provides for their family. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by quiversR4hunting

[luv2laugh]

I will not be surprised if in a year or two, TLC will offer one of the Duggar offspring a spin-off. Although, unless the money is going into JB's hands, that would likely create a big rift within the family. The question is whether or not some of the others are willing to defy JB for independence and/or $$$ . I saw Amy's instagram stories and she said, "Now that the show is cancelled, I think things are going to get... interesting.". I wonder if some of them are going to start speaking out against JB for media opportunities. Given JerJinger's statement, if they're not already cut off from JB, I'm guessing they are now.. JB must be ruing the day he allowed IBLP outsiders Jeremy & Derick to marry his daughters.

The Duggar siblings have to be fuming that Josh has caused two show cancellations and JB is bank rolling Josh on their dime...  I think some of the Duggar brothers (maybe Joe & JD) might eventually splinter off and go into their own businesses together to distance themselves. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by luv2laugh

[NotQuiteMotY]

48 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Ben seems to be the only dependent son-in-law and it will be interesting to see what happens with Jessa.  I can't imagine the plan was to keep her in grandma's old two bedroom as she continues her child collecting. 

I got the impression he'd finished school and was looking for a ministerial position? If that's the case, between that and whatever Jessa can drum up on social media, they may be able to support themselves for a good bit, and without a mortgage maybe even save up for a bigger place/adding on to their current, depending on how fast they keep adding kids. They might have to be careful about money during the transition/Ben get a second job, but it's doable. 

[SassyPants]

I think people need to stop comparing these folks to the rest of 21st century humanity. The 2nd generation Duggars have never danced to anyone adult’s tune other than JB. They don’t know what showing up on time even means. I haven’t seen any evidence that any G2D has shown a sustained work effort over the long haul that could potentially support a mega family in the coming years. It’s the combo of no education, little to no work ethic and the ever expanding family size that MOST OTHER people do not encounter or embrace. I don’t think this is a recipe for success or health for most-

[rebeccawriter01]

22 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think people need to stop comparing these folks to the rest of 21st century humanity. The 2nd generation Duggars have never danced to anyone adult’s tune other than JB. They don’t know what showing up on time even means. I haven’t seen any evidence that any G2D has shown a sustained work effort over the long haul that could potentially support a mega family in the coming years. It’s the combo of no education, little to no work ethic and the ever expanding family size that MOST OTHER people do not encounter or embrace. I don’t think this is a recipe for success or health for most-

The IBLP way of thinking seems to be more of an issue in terms of a future for the Duggar adult children. There is this idea that they should not be working for anyone but themselves and similarly minded people. Yes, several of them have gained experience in a few of the trades or achieved licenses, etc. However, how many are prepared to run a business and do that work. I have a cousin who is great at his trade. Smart guy with great skills. He has a long list of people who don't pay him because he doesn't feel comfortable asking and doesn't know how to even do an invoice. 

They've been able to work the "Duggar" way. That doesn't really seem to be the most effective and efficient. 
Basically, they all seem to be employees of "Duggar Enterprises" with Jim Bob's finger seemingly on everything right now. He owns land, building, equipment, etc. What happens as he gets older? What happens as the adult children seek more independence? It just doesn't seem to be the set up for sustainable success. Maybe they will step up and prove people wrong? Maybe not. 

[SweetLaurel]

1 hour ago, Xanariel said:

The men will all have to get jobs,

 Despte what they have been taught - women can work too.  They have a day care basically built in there  - Anna who probably can't get a job anwhere right now fors everal reason  - and they are entirely capable of going to work at Chik-Fil-A or where ever. Abby is a nurse - she could go back to work.  All the women getting a job would be the best thing that happened to most of those families.  Get them out of the cult mindset.  

[Tatar-tot]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

I will not be surprised if in a year or two, TLC will offer one of the Duggar offspring a spin-off. Although, unless the money is going into JB's hands, that would likely create a big rift within the family. The question is whether or not some of the others are willing to defy JB for independence and/or $$$ . I saw Amy's instagram stories and she said, "Now that the show is cancelled, I think things are going to get... interesting.". I wonder if some of them are going to start speaking out against JB for media opportunities. Given JerJinger's statement, if they're not already cut off from JB, I'm guessing they are now.. JB must be ruing the day he allowed IBLP outsiders Jeremy & Derick to marry his daughters.

The Duggar siblings have to be fuming that Josh has caused two show cancellations and JB is bank rolling Josh on their dime...  I think some of the Duggar brothers (maybe Joe & JD) might eventually splinter off and go into their own businesses together to distance themselves. 

Plus he is bleeding them dry on his legal defense & supporting his kids?  I would bet dollars to doughnuts Anna gives birth at the Rebers.

[HereticHick]

I hate being a nit-picker, but there is no such thing as "free housing,"  Property taxes have to be paid;  utilities have to be paid; appliances wear out, and no construction can go on for years with zero maintenance. Every time a Duggarling marries and moves into a Duggar-owned property, that rental income is lost. Sure, lots of kids go into family businesses. But the Duggars are NOT a normal family. The Duggar family is very likely, in less than a decade, going to be a collection of 20 subfamilies, adding multiple new members every year. They aren't a family, they are a growing village, and most of the villagers are dependent on JBs income. 

[nst]

this has been years in the making. there is no way that Jessa, Ben, the voulos, despite how they are portray themselves will ever be wanted back by TLC.

 

[SorenaJ]

Kinda unrelated, but are people who are professional scammers doing it because they are desperate, or because they have really a shitty morality compass? Like how sex workers are often doing it because they are desperate? 

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, nst said:

this has been years in the making. there is no way that Jessa, Ben, the voulos, despite how they are portray themselves will ever be wanted back by TLC.

 

Why would they, right? I mean what makes them interesting, unique or worthy of a media presence?

[JMO]

So, if, as Amy asked, a NDA expires if a show is cancelled (which I don't think it does), who do we see talking?  And about what?  Jill and Amy are the obvious answers.  I'll admit, I'd watch the tea spill if Good Morning America or the Today Show had on Jill, Jinger and Amy and they spilled it all out in promotion for a new show or book.  

[FiveAcres]

36 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I hate being a nit-picker, but there is no such thing as "free housing,"  Property taxes have to be paid;  utilities have to be paid; appliances wear out, and no construction can go on for years with zero maintenance. Every time a Duggarling marries and moves into a Duggar-owned property, that rental income is lost. Sure, lots of kids go into family businesses. But the Duggars are NOT a normal family. The Duggar family is very likely, in less than a decade, going to be a collection of 20 subfamilies, adding multiple new members every year. They aren't a family, they are a growing village, and most of the villagers are dependent on JBs income. 

I have a family member (and her husband) who rent four properties for most of their income. These are middle class properties in one of the highest cost of living areas in the United States. They make a fairly good income from these units, but it seems like they are always having to make some sort of repair or appliance replacement. They also either pay the HOA fees or someone to maintain the outside of the property. Since they do their own property management, they have to find new tenants when the old tenants give up their leases. (I am told that using a property management firm would take most of the income.)  They have to be careful when they find new tenants because, due to tenant protection laws, it takes a long time to get rid of bad tenants. In addition to financially vetting the new tenant, they also have to do some minimum refurbishment between tenants due to normal wear and tear.  My relative used to do the cleaning between tenants as well, but I bitched at her that she should get a cleaning service since she has a lot of repetitive stress injuries, and, thank Rufus, she finally agreed. Since they are in a high cost of living area, even finding semi-skilled labor to work on the units is hard to do.  Her partner used to do a lot of the minor handyman stuff, but he is getting past it physically as he ages. 

At least the Duggars have an inexhaustible supply of semi-skilled and unskilled labor. 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by FiveAcres
typo

[EmmieJ]

50 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I hate being a nit-picker, but there is no such thing as "free housing,"  Property taxes have to be paid;  utilities have to be paid; appliances wear out, and no construction can go on for years with zero maintenance. Every time a Duggarling marries and moves into a Duggar-owned property, that rental income is lost. Sure, lots of kids go into family businesses. But the Duggars are NOT a normal family. The Duggar family is very likely, in less than a decade, going to be a collection of 20 subfamilies, adding multiple new members every year. They aren't a family, they are a growing village, and most of the villagers are dependent on JBs income. 

Excellent point.  The gravy train looks like it's coming to an end and wouldn't it be ironic if things came absolute full circle:  2nd generation Duggars living in homes that are too small for the size of their families, "buying used and saving the difference," and relying on the generosity of fellow church members.