Seewalds 45: Ben’s a REAL Pastor at a PRECIOUS Church!

[nelliebelle1197]

Of course he is. And of course more babies ?? 

 

[WiseGirl]

Help a person out, what church is Ben the pastor at? So he didn't have to go to a fancy school in California to get a job as a pastor? How many Duggars do you think attend his church? How or what do you think Jessa does in the role of a pastor's wife?

Edited March 24, 2021 by WiseGirl
added text

[OldFadedStar]

27 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

Help a person out, what church is Ben the pastor at? So he didn't have to go to a fancy school in California to get a job as a pastor? How many Duggars do you think attend his church? How or what do you think Jessa does in the role of a pastor's wife?

Immanuel Baptist Church in Springdale

he did go to Moody but was able to do that all online. So it appears he has more of an education then Jeremy did when he started preaching. 
 

I think the school Jeremy goes to will give him more pastor clout though and wasn’t his first church a shoot off of his school?

from what I saw, I’d assume Bens church has about 200 people. He is probably making enough that he doesn’t need JBs support unless they want a nicer lifestyle 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

10 minutes ago, OldFadedStar said:

Immanuel Baptist Church in Springdale

he did go to Moody but was able to do that all online. So it appears he has more of an education then Jeremy did when he started preaching. 
 

I think the school Jeremy goes to will give him more pastor clout though and wasn’t his first church a shoot off of his school?

from what I saw, I’d assume Bens church has about 200 people. He is probably making enough that he doesn’t need JBs support unless they want a nicer lifestyle 

However, Bin isn’t the lead pastor of his church so his job may be part time. That’s common in smaller churches. It’s good that he has an actual job, but I suspect they are still dependent on the Bank of Boob.

[SassyPants]

He wouldn’t be called as a Pastor to a 200 person church without some prior work history, would he? Ben doesn’t have an MDiv, does he? Is there a BA to MDiv bridge? 

[Grace]

37 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

He wouldn’t be called as a Pastor to a 200 person church without some prior work history, would he? Ben doesn’t have an MDiv, does he? Is there a BA to MDiv bridge? 

That depends entirely on the denomination. Some require an MDiv some just say "you're the preacher now" with varying levels of hoops for ordination. I think some churches even consider any degree received from their denomination colleges a license to preach. 

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

He wouldn’t be called as a Pastor to a 200 person church without some prior work history, would he? Ben doesn’t have an MDiv, does he? Is there a BA to MDiv bridge? 

I have an extended family member who is Pastor of some sort of born-again Baptist Church in a very rural area of California. Probably 300 - 400 people in the church? I think he just had some sort of low key Bible college degree he got while working and volunteer preaching. I can’t imagine he’d have had the opportunity to get a masters, unless he did it slowly over time while stIll being the minister. His wife worked as a bank teller though, so that helped with bills.  But still, they had a nice house and decent middle class life in a relatively low cost place. 

[WiseGirl]

Well that seems like a friendly  church */sarcasm.

W the website it state "All are Welcome" After reading what they believe, I doubt very much that ALL are welcome. 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

I read the title of this new thread in the Pinocchio "I'm a REAL boy!" voice xD

[SassyPants]

11 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Well that seems like a friendly  church */sarcasm.

W the website it state "All are Welcome" After reading what they believe, I doubt very much that ALL are welcome. 

Wasn’t the “what we believe page”, frightening?

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

30 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Wasn’t the “what we believe page”, frightening?

Yup. Here's a link to that page, for anyone whose Google-Fu is tired today. 

https://www.ibcspringdale.com/what-we-believe

It's very long. I only skimmed the first 16 sections and concentrated on the last/17th section, "Statement on Marriage and Sexuality". I suppose by putting that nasty bit last, they might have some newcomers who didn't get to the last part, and didn't realize how anti LGBTQ+ the church is. And the second to last paragraph seems to be a CYA statement:

Quote

So we believe, according to Scripture, that every person must be afforded compassion, love, kindness, respect, and dignity. Hateful and harassing behavior or attitudes directed toward any individual are to be repudiated and are not in accord with Scripture nor the doctrines of the church.

"No, we don't hate anyone, see? If someone listens to us calling all trans people (etc.) sinners and then goes out and commits a hate crime, it's totally not our fault!" Sounds just like the Atlanta spa shooter's church to me.  

[metheglyn]

Quote

Also, the Church regards as sinful the intent or desire to surgically alter one’s biological, natural-born sex to a different sex. Since the body is a creation of God, the church holds sexual identity to be biologically determined by God at conception, and associated gender norms are to be observed as appropriate to biblical standards. Genesis 1:27; Romans 1:26-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Yeah, that's a major yikes there. So completely aside from any other causes of gender non-conformity, I shudder to think how they would deal with a baby born intersex with ambiguous genitalia. I'm entirely cis so have no experience with this, but my layman's understanding is that some (though certainly not all) of the people who come to self-identify as transgender do so as a result of having been "assigned" a gender at birth based on a doctor's or other person's opinion on how to resolve that ambiguity which ultimately turns out to be incorrect. That's not even "God's decision" regarding the baby's sex, as the baby's own ambiguous sex presentation is "determined by God at conception." That's other people's interpretation of how the baby was born and per their own interpretation of religion humans can make mistakes, but would they ever admit that in this kind of situation? There is a lot of room for doing serious damage to children with that kind of blanket statement. 

[AussieKrissy]

I watched one short thing where a lady had an intersex child. She opted to not have surgery and wait until the child was able to pick their gender. I think at that time she was identifying aS a girl. The Mum was talking about how it is becoming the norm now to wait and not gender assign surgery at birth. I can’t see fundies waiting. They would want it “fixed” 

I think waiting is great. No one should be looking at child’s genitals anyway. So the child has as much anonymity as they want for their medical stuff. And can make the choice in their own time. 

[front hugs > duggs]

I found this part interesting as well:

Quote

About Religious Liberty and Civil Government.

We believe that every human being has direct relations with God, and is responsible to God alone in matters of faith; that the church must be free from interference by any ecclesiastical or political authority; that, therefore, Church and State must be kept separate as having different functions, each fulfilling its duties free from dictation or patronage of the other. We believe that civil government is of divine appointment, for the interests and good order of human society; that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored and obeyed; except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ; who is the Lord of the conscience, and the coming Prince of the Kings of the earth.

Daniel 3:17-18; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:10; Revelation 10:6; Philippians 2:10-11; Psalm 72:11.

1-  because evangelicals really don't appear to believe in separation of church and state on issues such as marriage and abortion

2- government as divine appointment- doesn't that mean God wants us to have President Biden and therefor this entire church should be against the insurrection on Jan. 6? Somehow, I doubt they are...

[Alisamer]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:16 PM, SassyPants said:

He wouldn’t be called as a Pastor to a 200 person church without some prior work history, would he? Ben doesn’t have an MDiv, does he? Is there a BA to MDiv bridge? 

Um... take a look at Bro. Gary. He's not currently a pastor (that'd require actual regular work) but I believe he's been asked before. In many independent churches there are literally no requirements for becoming pastor other than "has a penis" and "is able to (kind of) read Bible verses and yell about them".

(I attend a Baptist church - our pastor has a doctorate. He had his masters before we hired him and got the doctorate while working at our church.)

Good for Ben for having a job, I guess? The standards are really low for the Duggars, aren't they?

[SassyPants]

30 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Um... take a look at Bro. Gary. He's not currently a pastor (that'd require actual regular work) but I believe he's been asked before. In many independent churches there are literally no requirements for becoming pastor other than "has a penis" and "is able to (kind of) read Bible verses and yell about them".

(I attend a Baptist church - our pastor has a doctorate. He had his masters before we hired him and got the doctorate while working at our church.)

Good for Ben for having a job, I guess? The standards are really low for the Duggars, aren't they?

I only have personal experiences with the Catholic and Unitarian faith groups. Both of those groups require extensive education, internships, boards and field experience. I can read the Bible at home and make up my own interpretations without ever leaving my house. These folks can’t be making any money doing this. I’ve mentioned my UU minister who is in ministry as a post script to his very successful career in space engineering. Look at Kendra’s dad...

I wish someone would tell these folks that few people are going to get paid for having boatloads of kids and sticking their hands out. Get off your butt, get some education and skills and get to work.
 

Laziness and begging are not religious tenets. And now I am going to vent. Ever since JB flapped his mouth about his thoughts on education and we have watched him exploit everyone in his path, I have despised JB and his approach. I am one who is here with my popcorn waiting for the fall. I feel no guilt at all. He has used and abused everyone and every resource available. He is irresponsible, entitled, lazy and self centered. The world definitely does not need any more people who reason and act as he does. He can not see past his own nose. I can not wait for his fiefdom to crumble. Anyone who mocks and withholds education deserves to live the life that self selected ignorance provides.

Edited March 26, 2021 by SassyPants

[metheglyn]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Laziness and begging are not religious tenets.

In an interesting way, begging actually CAN be a religious tenet. However, historically that was done through one of the Catholic mendicant orders whose members gave up all their worldly goods and lived a "lifestyle of poverty, traveling, and living in urban areas for purposes of preaching, evangelization, and ministry, especially to the poor." They did not live a life of laziness as part of this lifestyle, as traveling in poverty was frankly pretty hard work. 

In some ways, it seems like many of these modern evangelical priests want to borrow from this tradition (although I'm sure they'd disavow the Catholic roots), but they're mixing up the mendicant tradition of asceticism with the monastic community model of acquiring often considerable wealth and property that might be shared (to greater or lesser degrees) amongst members of the non-mendicant orders. Mendicants begged for enough for the individual itenirant members to live on, not for enough to have (settled) members raise large dependent families from fruits of their begging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendicant_orders

[CaricatureQualities]

Hey you can listen to Ben's sermons on the ibcspringdale.com  website too. Now don't everyone go at once...

 

[patsymae]

33 minutes ago, CaricatureQualities said:

Hey you can listen to Ben's sermons on the ibcspringdale.com  website too. Now don't everyone go at once...

 

Pretty sure they are horrific (I will probably listen just to ... relieve COVID boredom), but he did complete coursework and get an actual job, so given the expectations of Duggarworld, can at least give him that.

Taking one for the team now and listening to a Ben sermon. One second in there is a football metaphor. It's 36 minutes. Not sure my booze will last but I'll report back if I can.

[patsymae]

37 minutes ago, patsymae said:

Pretty sure they are horrific (I will probably listen just to ... relieve COVID boredom), but he did complete coursework and get an actual job, so given the expectations of Duggarworld, can at least give him that.

Taking one for the team now and listening to a Ben sermon. One second in there is a football metaphor. It's 36 minutes. Not sure my booze will last but I'll report back if I can.

Oh fuck, he's actually good. Nothing overtly hateful and really nothing I wouldn't expect to hear from any other person with that mindset. He comes across as confident, compassionate, and educated in scripture while also being "relatable."  Moody must give some good instruction in how to do this and he must have been paying attention. Pisses me off but i've heard way worse.

[CaricatureQualities]

I listened to 2. He is actually pretty good at it. Easier to stay tuned to than Jeremy in his sermons by far. I've never made it through a Jeremy sermon. 

Ya know, he has a lot to say for someone who always looks so perplexed and half stunned sitting next to Jessa in the talking heads lol.  

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, CaricatureQualities said:

I listened to 2. He is actually pretty good at it. Easier to stay tuned to than Jeremy in his sermons by far. I've never made it through a Jeremy sermon. 

Ya know, he has a lot to say for someone who always looks so perplexed and half stunned sitting next to Jessa in the talking heads lol.  

His SOTDRT seemed more advanced than the Duggar version. But no 25 YO needs to be a father to 3 almost 4 kids.

[LilMissMetaphor]

12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

 But no 25 YO needs to be a father to 3 almost 4 kids.

Sorry, but that's kinda like saying no woman needs to have more than one baby daddy.

[Idlewild]

It’s not that they have had children so young and so quickly, it’s that they feel qualified to preach about family life without ever acknowledging how heavily subsidised their existence is. Being supported by JB with TLC money, paid for wedding, honeymoon as well as paid appearances ( when Jessa was doing her ‘how to dress modestly’ lectures), paid magazine articles- most young couples don’t have these advantages and Ben having been immersed in Duggarville since he was a teenager probably can’t imagine life beyond it. 

[SassyPants]

1 minute ago, Idlewild said:

It’s not that they have had children so young and so quickly, it’s that they feel qualified to preach about family life without ever acknowledging how heavily subsidised their existence is. Being supported by JB with TLC money, paid for wedding, honeymoon as well as paid appearances ( when Jessa was doing her ‘how to dress modestly’ lectures), paid magazine articles- most young couples don’t have these advantages and Ben having been immersed in Duggarville since he was a teenager probably can’t imagine life beyond it. 

Yep. Sure you can be very young  and have multiple kids or baby daddies and be successful, but that is by the far the exception, not the rule. Also true that Jessa and Ben have been supported by JB (via an allowance for doing the show?) for the last almost 7 years. How many 25 YO fathers of 3 almost 4, with a house, cars...have that reality? Common sense and dollars and cents-