Michaela & Brandon 6: She Is an LPN and He Is Boring.....

[GuineaPigCourtship]

@JustEnough I always always look in mouths unless the animal is completely unsafe. Many cats need a deft oral exam with a pair of tongue depressors to save my fingers. Much about dental disease is genetic predisposition but I like greenies treats and dental support food for cats (you can use that as treats) for preventative care. There does not seem to be worse dental disease on canned food than standard dry because most cats barely chew kibble anyway. I recommend cleanings and extractions based on my exam findings only so timing varies.

Kittens with gingivitis is a different story usually because they tend to have some sort of infection as the primary the problem rather than inflammation from bad teeth leading to a secondary infection. Dentistry is still an up and coming field in vet care so do ask about it when you bring your kitties in for physical exams if you don't hear their oral health addresses specifically.

[lizzybee]

Obesity can cause issues with fertility, but it isn't a hard and fast rule. I'm obese and my infertility was caused by an untreated thyroid disorder. I treated my thyroid and had three healthy children in quick succession. I don't think it's fair to discuss her weight as a potential factor. Carlin for example the other day said because she was pregnant she had to up her dress size from a 0 to a 2. We're looking at these people from pictures and if she's standing by size 0 sisters, she's going to look like a bigger person. Kelly for example only wears a 1X according to BSB and she's definitely smaller than Kelly. In this photo they've put her in a medium sized dress. I can't imagine someone in a medium sized dress being considered overweight enough to impact their fertility. https://www.batessistersboutique.com/product/the-bethany-black-polka-dot-maxi-dress-with-side-slits/

[CanadianMamam]

2 hours ago, lizzybee said:

Obesity can cause issues with fertility, but it isn't a hard and fast rule. I'm obese and my infertility was caused by an untreated thyroid disorder. I treated my thyroid and had three healthy children in quick succession. I don't think it's fair to discuss her weight as a potential factor. Carlin for example the other day said because she was pregnant she had to up her dress size from a 0 to a 2. We're looking at these people from pictures and if she's standing by size 0 sisters, she's going to look like a bigger person. Kelly for example only wears a 1X according to BSB and she's definitely smaller than Kelly. In this photo they've put her in a medium sized dress. I can't imagine someone in a medium sized dress being considered overweight enough to impact their fertility. https://www.batessistersboutique.com/product/the-bethany-black-polka-dot-maxi-dress-with-side-slits/

This is a good point. I went and looked and Erin, Carlin, Whitney, Esther and Katie all wear size small. So Michael might just look larger next to her tiny sisters. 

[SassyPants]

17 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

This is a good point. I went and looked and Erin, Carlin, Whitney, Esther and Katie all wear size small. So Michael might just look larger next to her tiny sisters. 

Just from photos, (obviously) Carlin, Esther and Katie appear noticeably smaller than Erin and Whitney. It’s their frames and bone structures. Look at their calves, ankles, wrists… Carlin and Katie are tiny. Erin and Whitney are more averaged sized in terms of frame. Further, folks with larger frames can carry more weight and still look slender, not so for teeny tiny gals.

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Just from photos, (obviously) Carlin, Esther and Katie appear noticeably smaller than Erin and Whitney. It’s their frames and bone structures. Look at their calves, ankles, wrists… Carlin and Katie are tiny. Erin and Whitney are more averaged sized in terms of frame. Further, folks with larger frames can carry more weight and still look slender, not so for teeny tiny gals.

I do get this. I have a tall, mean frame.and I carry weight really, really well. I am a lot heavier weight wise than I want to be but still wear a medium and I don't look as heavy as I am.

I do think Michaela is a perfectly normal size from the photos and doesn't seem obese, she is just heavier than her small sisters and I agree that Carlin and Katie are tiny, Josie too.

[libgirl2]

7 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

I do get this. I have a tall, mean frame.and I carry weight really, really well. I am a lot heavier weight wise than I want to be but still wear a medium and I don't look as heavy as I am.

I do think Michaela is a perfectly normal size from the photos and doesn't seem obese, she is just heavier than her small sisters and I agree that Carlin and Katie are tiny, Josie too.

She looks perfectly normal to me. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

She looks perfectly normal to me. 

Absolutely, when compared to averaged sized ladies. Unfortunately, she is often photographed with her sisters, many of whom are teeny, tiny women. I also do not believe that Erin or Whitney wear the same size as Carlin and Katie. 

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Absolutely, when compared to averaged sized ladies. Unfortunately, she is often photographed with her sisters, many of whom are teeny, tiny women. I also do not believe that Erin or Whitney wear the same size as Carlin and Katie. 

I think the Bates sisters boutique probably doesn't go smaller than size small. The stuff looks loose on Carlin and Katie and hangs off poor Tiffany. 

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, CanadianMamam said:

I think the Bates sisters boutique probably doesn't go smaller than size small. The stuff looks loose on Carlin and Katie and hangs off poor Tiffany. 

Tiffany is reallllllllly tiny. Next to her, even the tiniest Bates’ girls look average sized.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I agree on the privacy thing. However I doubt they would give the child that much privacy once the adoption is completed. I would hate for her to become one of those fundies that posts way too much about a kid’s adoption on the internet and of course the kid has no say because they are a kid. 

[llucie]

She has also replied to someone asking about surrogacy, she said it is not an aption they have considered, but that it also wouldnt be a medical option for them. It sounds like they got really bad news from the fertility specialists this year, and that it would be a true miracle for her to be pregnant.

I am glad she put to rest the rumour that Brandon must be against adoption just because he works for IBLP.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, llucie said:

She has also replied to someone asking about surrogacy, she said it is not an aption they have considered, but that it also wouldnt be a medical option for them. It sounds like they got really bad news from the fertility specialists this year, and that it would be a true miracle for her to be pregnant.

I am glad she put to rest the rumour that Brandon must be against adoption just because he works for IBLP.

Women use surrogates when they can’t carry a fetus to term, usually because of health issues, but they have viable eggs (or they’re using an egg donor). I think their problem is conception, not gestation. Surrogacy not being an option probably means that Michaela is fine to carry the hypothetical baby herself. 

[AussieKrissy]

I read it as an option they have not considered as it being something they are against. I dunno if I can see Micheal being ok with another women carrying the “seed” of her man puke 🤢 

[Tatar-tot]

Why doesn’t she get an egg donation from one of her sisters? I would think one of them would assist.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think all that is quite expensive and maybe they would prefer to use that money for an adoption instead of surrogacy or IVF. 

[ifosterkittens]

My understanding is surrogacy is more expensive than private adoption in most cases. A friend looked into surrogacy and was told 70K if she provided the surrogate (her sister-in-law volunteered to do it), and 100K if the agency provided the surrogate. This was if everything went smoothly, and there were no issues. She lives in a more expensive area, and has disposable income, but even she was surprised. She went the private adoption route, and said it was about half the cost of surrogacy (not sure if she meant half of 70 or 100).

Price did not dictate her decision. The process necessary to retrieve the eggs was advised against due to pre-existing health issues. 

[imokit]

Anything involving the risk of too many embryos runs a lot of ethical dilemmas for them.  If they harvest 10 eggs from someone and they all fertilise and are left with 10 embryos then they are screwed.  They shouldn't implant them all at once as if too many implant that could be a scary high risk (non viable) pregnancy.  But freezing eggs/embryos is something they're against as not using them=abortion.  Those embryos from IVF are babies according to their belief system.  Not using them/something happening to frozen eggs = abortion.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/health/embryo-adoption-donated-snowflake.html

Here's a church leader talking about it

https://www.russellmoore.com/2010/02/22/is-embryo-adoption-immoral/

 

and a Christian adoption agency doing it.

https://nightlight.org/snowflakes-embryo-adoption-donation/

 

There's no way Michael will do IVF or surrogacy, adoption either pre or post birth may be the only route left.

Personally I think they should foster - provide a vulnerable kid a load of love (and be trapped in a lot of rules about how to not beat the kid and give it its own room). 

[BensAllergies]

Just speculation but I think the conception issue is with Brandon. She said fertility testing, not treatment. For them the only option would be adoption at this point if the issue is indeed with Brandon, because using another man’s sperm would not be acceptable.

Michael could have some of the same pregnancy issues like her sisters do but if it’s a conception problem I don’t think it’s with her. Otherwise they would be choosing non-IVF fertility treatments before adoption IMO.

[FluffySnowball]

20 minutes ago, BensAllergies said:

Just speculation but I think the conception issue is with Brandon. She said fertility testing, not treatment. For them the only option would be adoption at this point if the issue is indeed with Brandon, because using another man’s sperm would not be acceptable.

Michael could have some of the same pregnancy issues like her sisters do but if it’s a conception problem I don’t think it’s with her. Otherwise they would be choosing non-IVF fertility treatments before adoption IMO.

Honestly, I don’t think we know that for sure. I have a friend who underwent five unsuccessful IVF circles before doctors found out why she can’t conceive. Her eggs are immature and unfortunately for her, it seems that nothing can be done and she cannot have children. She even consulted doctors from various countries, but after over ten years of trying, doctors don’t give her any hope for a solution and a pregnancy. 

All this to say that it appears to me that finding the reason for someone’s childlessness can take lots of time, even when going to very good hospitals and specialists, and not everyone is blessed with a biological baby.

My friend would deserve one and would be a wonderful mother so I’m deeply sad for her. However, I assume it’s better Michael doesn’t have children who she can beat, abuse, and indoctrinate into the cult. I don’t wish her any sadness but at the end of the day, I think it’s better she can’t have kid after kid. 

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, imokit said:

 

Personally I think they should foster - provide a vulnerable kid a load of love (and be trapped in a lot of rules about how to not beat the kid and give it its own room). 

Fundies should NOT be foster parents, or adoptive parents in most cases. They refuse to understand the trauma involved for the child and therefore add to it. "Not beating" a child isn't the only way to refrain from adding trauma to a vulnerable child.

[Melissa1977]

13 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I read it as an option they have not considered as it being something they are against. I dunno if I can see Micheal being ok with another women carrying the “seed” of her man puke 🤢 

Many people think surrogacy is unethical or are uncomfortable with that option, not because religious reasons or purity.

13 hours ago, Tatar-tot said:

Why doesn’t she get an egg donation from one of her sisters? I would think one of them would assist.

Egg donation has risks for the donor. It would be really unfair to put her sisters in that position, especially those with clottimg disorders. And many women could bot easily cope with her egg developing into a child that would never be her own child.

[SorenaJ]

Is embryo adoption an option? Seems like it could work within their belief system. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Is embryo adoption an option? Seems like it could work within their belief system. 

I’m actually surprised more don’t do it. There are so many fundies who believe life begins at conception and if you destroy extra unneeded embryos made for IVF, then you are committing mass murder. So you would think fundies would be constantly making go fund mes to adopt these “babies” before they are murdered in cold blood. But I have a feeling most fundies know that embryos aren’t babies and they would rather shame women walking into abortion clinics. 

[SassyPants]

Michaela needs counseling to deal with the mindscrew of not being able to rightly fulfill her only life goal and mission. I do feel compassion for her in this regard. However, she is a 32 YO woman who can and should make better/healthier decisions. 

[BensAllergies]

5 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

Honestly, I don’t think we know that for sure.

Nothing is for sure which is why I said it’s speculation, but the assumption for pages and pages has been that the problem is with Michael and with her alone. It’s her weight; maybe it’s her eggs and she should have eggs donated by her sisters, etc. Just throwing the thought out there that it could be with Brandon alone, or both.

She said surrogacy wouldn’t fix the medical issue which could mean sperm and/or ovulation issue. We can’t automatically assume it’s one or the other.