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Michaela & Brandon 6: She Is an LPN and He Is Boring.....


nelliebelle1197

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11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Admittedly, this is a ten year old article. It would take a great deal more to convince me that people eating the SAD and who are obese score significantly better (in large numbers) on health screening indicators vs those eating a healthy, lower fat diet and maintaining a healthy weight/lifestyle. Are there outliers, sure, but those are likely the exception and not the rule. 

The article is 10 years old but there’s been a growing awareness since then that a focus on weight is more harmful than helpful. The argument isn’t that people with an “obese” BMI are healthier (they aren’t). It’s that weight loss recommendations simply don’t work over the long term for the majority of people, and so recommending an ineffective treatment plan not only doesn’t improve physical health, it also harms mental health. 

Also, a lot of the health discrepancies experienced by fat people can be attributed to the fact that medicines aren’t tested on them and that they’re constantly discriminated against, both while receiving medical care and in society at large. The discrimination is comparable to what other oppressed groups experience, and suffering discrimination makes it more likely that someone will be fat. So for example there are a lot of poor, fat, Black people who suffer discrimination intersectionally. Honestly I think the best thing we could do for health is to raise the minimum wage so that people have money to buy healthy food, time to cook and exercise (since they wouldn’t have to work multiple jobs), and less stress. It doesn’t make sense to focus on weight as the cause of bad health given that weight is as much a symptom as a cause and that most people can’t really control their weight. The medicine problem is also very real — I have a good friend who had an unplanned child in her mid 20s because her doctor didn’t adjust her birth control pills for her weight.  

Criticizing other people’s weight reinforces a very unhealthy way of thinking (fatphobia) that both reinforces discrimination against fat people and has made generations of people (especially women) feel primarily disgust and shame about their bodies (whether they are actually fat or not). Having this kind of body dysphoria actually keeps people from thinking their bodies are worth caring for and makes them less likely to engage in healthy behaviors. 

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On 10/22/2021 at 4:14 AM, lumpentheologie said:

It’s that weight loss recommendations simply don’t work over the long term for the majority of people, and so recommending an ineffective treatment plan not only doesn’t improve physical health, it also harms mental health. 

It does works for some people though. My mother got type 2 diabetes, was told to lose weight, and did so, vastly improving her health. I'm glad her doctor told her that losing weight could help her!

 I wouldn't go to a doctor who was so condescending and patriarchial that he hid information from me, because I thought I couldn't take it. People deserve to have all the information at their disposal. Doctors are used to delivering  hard news, much harder than "If you lose 20 pounds, you might reverse your diabetes."

It's not a doctor's job to hide some information from me, out of concern for my mental health. Doctors used to do that. They wouldn't tell patients with serious illness that they were very sick, because they didn't want to upset them.

I wouldn't want a return to those days. 

Edited by Jackie3
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Many people yoyo with their weight, I believe, so they will lose and then gain. Repeat as needed.

I gained a lot of weight when my thyroid failed and it is a massive struggle to lose it, even with my thyroid being regulated. Imagine my joy when an obgyn said she would not consider any diagnostics for fertility issues unless I came back to her at a healthy weight (minus 100lbs).

I write this with my 9mo daughter sleeping in the next room, thanks to another obgyn who diagnosed and helped me with my pcos. I am still about 80lbs from a healthy weight and I guess I'd still be miserably barren listening to her.

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7 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

It does works for some people though. My mother got type 2 diabetes, was told to lose weight, and did so, vastly improving her health. I'm glad her doctor told her that losing weight could help her!

 I wouldn't go to a doctor who was so condescending and patriarchial that he hid information from me, because I thought I couldn't take it. People deserve to have all the information at their disposal. Doctors are used to delivering  hard news, much harder than "If you lose 20 pounds, you might reverse your diabetes."

It's not a doctor's job to hide some information from me, out of concern for my mental health. Doctors used to do that. They wouldn't tell patients with serious illness that they were very sick, because they didn't want to upset them.

I wouldn't want a return to those days. 

The point is not that we shouldn’t be telling people that losing weight will likely improve health outcomes. The point is that, on a population-wide scale, dieting as we currently construe it does not work as a solution to obesity. This is because ‘dieting’ as we currently know it relies largely on personal willpower, and that willpower is being asked to fight a juggernaut - a whole economy and society based on fast food, processed food, and sedentary living. Plus many many people face additional issues such as literally not having access to fresh healthy food. I mean, yes, of course we should all do our best to take personal responsibility for improving our health - it is our own bodies after all - but to suggest that structural and societal issues are irrelevant just goes against what evidence-based research is telling us. 

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I got my full medical check up March last year right before countrywide lockdown. I'm 157cm and 55 kilograms at the time. While the results were good (means medically I'm perfectly healthy and everything is normal), I still got notes that I'm overweight and need to lose some weight.

At the time I've been exercising 2 hours/day on daily basis since Dec 2016 and eat moderately healthy.

This is how my body looked like at the time: 

Spoiler

IMG_8151-01_1_1.jpg.00059fedc9901fdeee335fc3c5e16336.jpg

But noooo according to the doctor I still need to lose some weight because I'm overweight for my height.

I was overweight since I was 13 (70kg was my weight at my worst). To be told that I was still overweight when my fat percentage was at 23% was baffling. Sometimes doctors don't consider your body composition at all.

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Michaela obese? This whole discussion? Some people really need to get out for five minutes and touch some grass. I logged in after months just to say that.

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2 hours ago, arareyeah said:

I got my full medical check up March last year right before countrywide lockdown. I'm 157cm and 55 kilograms at the time. While the results were good (means medically I'm perfectly healthy and everything is normal), I still got notes that I'm overweight and need to lose some weight.

At the time I've been exercising 2 hours/day on daily basis since Dec 2016 and eat moderately healthy.

This is how my body looked like at the time: 

  Hide contents

IMG_8151-01_1_1.jpg.00059fedc9901fdeee335fc3c5e16336.jpg

But noooo according to the doctor I still need to lose some weight because I'm overweight for my height.

I was overweight since I was 13 (70kg was my weight at my worst). To be told that I was still overweight when my fat percentage was at 23% was baffling. Sometimes doctors don't consider your body composition at all.

That‘s insane, that weight is totally fine and you look fantastic!

I never really struggled with my weight until I had a car accident, moved less and got a serious post partum depression after my first son. At my heaviest I weighed 105 kg at 168 cm height. I’m struggling ever since and currently I’m on medication again which causes a high appetite, my willpower is almost 0.

When I was pregnant with my second son I had to go to the ER because I had a blood clot (I have two clotting disorders). The doctor who did the ultrasound on my leg treated me like garbage and literally told me:”I can’t see anything because of all the fat!!”…. I was 26 weeks pregnant and weighed ~88kg. I was so shocked that I couldn’t even respond to that offense.

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On 10/24/2021 at 9:05 AM, arareyeah said:

I got my full medical check up March last year right before countrywide lockdown. I'm 157cm and 55 kilograms at the time. While the results were good (means medically I'm perfectly healthy and everything is normal), I still got notes that I'm overweight and need to lose some weight.

 

That's bizarre, 55kg at 157cm is well within normal BMI, like right in the middle of the normal range, so that is ridiculous on all levels

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On 10/21/2021 at 4:13 PM, SassyPants said:

Admittedly, this is a ten year old article. It would take a great deal more to convince me that people eating the SAD and who are obese score significantly better (in large numbers) on health screening indicators vs those eating a healthy, lower fat diet and maintaining a healthy weight/lifestyle. Are there outliers, sure, but those are likely the exception and not the rule. 

Anyone speculating that Michaela, who appears to be a perfectly averaged size woman (she just happens to have a lot of very thin sisters) is on the verge of obesity to the point it’s causing her infertility - REALLY needs to get some perspective. That level of weight obsession, to the point it’s causing you to be body dysmorphic about OTHER peoples bodies - is just incredibly disturbing and concerning. Like see a therapist to talk it out. 

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@Mama Mia no one called her obese. Some people mentioned that she gained weight and that being overweight can negatively affect fertility. No one said her infertility is caused by being overweight but that significant weight gain won’t help. 
And then we were back to the old circle about scientific/ non scientific theories about fertility, how science discriminated against women, BIPOC and whatever other minorities anyway (which is one of the reason some ethnic minorities refuse to be vaccinated, I think we need a lot of better education around science and science needs to address their own biases and change some things), that BMI is not a good measure of health, lots of mixing up of one lbs too much/overweight/ seriously overweight/ obesity and morbidly obese……

it’s kind of worth a dead parrot in my opinion or maybe it’s one of those food at weddings/ duvet topics

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  • 3 weeks later...

@BrandoBarks I am so sorry that the doctor was that rude and unprofessional. In my opinion, if medical personnel have concerns about a person’s weight ,at either end of the spectrum, they should be offering a referral to a therapist, a dietitian, an endocrinologist and possibly a PT. Weight can be impacted by so many biological factors, along with social and psychological factors. Is an individual overweight because of a hormone imbalance, wacky blood work, poverty, PTSD, depression, a lack of comfort with how to prepare cheap, balanced meals, physical limitations which affect their ability to be active etc? Hard to say without a thorough investigation. Ditto for individuals who are underweight. 
I would love to see free or low cost community gardens, that are accessible by bus, in all major cities. It’s objectively impossible to eat 8-10 servings a day of fruits and veggies if they aren’t available. 

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On 10/22/2021 at 4:14 AM, lumpentheologie said:

It’s that weight loss recommendations simply don’t work over the long term for the majority of people, and so recommending an ineffective treatment plan not only doesn’t improve physical health, it also harms mental health. 

Cancer treatment recommendations didn't work 100 years ago. That didn't mean cancer was fake. It was quite real. I'm glad they didn't pretend cancer didn't exist, simply because there were no treatments. 

You're saying that it harms people's mental health to say, "Dieting is hard but if you succeed you'll be healthier." It's a better course of action to remain silent. That's not what I'm paying my doctor for! I want all the information, and I don't want him to decide my mental health can't handle certain things.

On 10/24/2021 at 12:18 AM, bal maiden said:

Plus many many people face additional issues such as literally not having access to fresh healthy food.

Obesity exists whether or not social issues cause it. 

Lack access? I worked at our local food bank, which was simply bursting with fresh veggies and fruits for distribution. Also, many fresh healthy foods -- oatmeal, beans, potatoes, carrots, greens, seasonal fruits--are among the cheapest foods at the market. 

On 10/24/2021 at 12:18 AM, bal maiden said:

This is because ‘dieting’ as we currently know it relies largely on personal willpower, and that willpower is being asked to fight a juggernaut - a whole economy and society based on fast food, processed food, and sedentary living.

It's true. Dieting is usually ineffective. Years ago, bleeding with leeches was ineffective. In both cases, the underlying problem still existed. 

On 10/22/2021 at 4:14 AM, lumpentheologie said:

So for example there are a lot of poor, fat, Black people who suffer discrimination intersectionally.

What in the world. . . ?

So you believe Black people can be obese.  Obesity doesn't exist for white people (and should never be mentioned bc mental health). But you're pretty certain there are "poor, fat, Black people." And it's OK to mention it, in their case.

Edited by Jackie3
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It’s not always lack of access to healthy food that causes overweightness or obesity. Could be lack of mental or physical energy to cook it. 
 

1) If you are already eating junk food, then you won’t have the energy to cook healthy food and meal plan/prep. 
2) If you have a mental illness or physical illness you won’t have the spoons to cook healthy food and meal plan/prep. 
3) If you are forced to work long hours in a demanding job due to low salary you won’t have the mental and physical energy to cook healthy food and meal plan/prep. 

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I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again- there are areas where there isn’t access to fresh food unless you can grow it yourself. My daughter works for local government in an area of the country where communities are so poverty stricken there isn’t even a grocery store. There’s a dollar general and and a gas station/mini mart. The closest “normal” grocery store is 40 min away and with most residents out of work and without a car this presents huge challenges. I worked at a food bank in my area for years, and the only fresh food we ever offered was milk. Just because there may be fresh foods plentifully available in one area doesn’t mean it’s like that everywhere. And one more thing- I have been struggling with a thyroid that completely crapped out on me when I was 26. With that I’ve gained a ton of weight, feel like I have the flu a good amount of time, lost a large portion of my hair, and struggle with pain. It is so frustrating to hear  people say overweight people just need to eat less or eat better or move more. I’m sure all the fat-phobic people see me and peg me as lazy, stuffing my face and sitting around all day instead of exercising and eating healthy. What’s that saying, walk a mile in another man’s shoes… 

There’s no moral failings attached to my hair loss (side effect of thyroid), but there is moral failure attached to my weight gain (also side effect of thyroid). 

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What I will say is that doctors 1) should bring up weight if it's relevant to the appointment; and 2) need WAY more training in how/why they deliver this to patients. If an obese patient goes for an appointment and everything they say is met with, "Well, you need to lose weight," and nothing else is even looked into, that's just a straight up bad doctor. I'm sure that happens way too often and needs to stop. There should be a lot more resources offered to obese patients (e.g. don't tell them "lose weight," and send them on their way, which has happened so often in my family; refer a registered dietician! or SOMETHING!). I think a lot of doctors do shame patients and this is of course going to negatively affect the mental health of so many people. 

 

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@Jackie3 Your experience with food banks is very different than many other’s. Where I live, food banks rarely have fresh fruit and veggies. Stores do give them bagged salads that have expired but often by the time they are distributed, most of the lettuce is spoiled. Fruits and veggies are expensive (especially in the winter) and communities a few hours north are paying $11 or more for 2 litres of milk. Climate comes in play with cost. We are already covered in snow and won’t see the ground until April. Shorter growing seasons mean buying produce that is imported much of the year. This drives up cost. I spent $100 last week at a low cost grocery store buying tomatoes (on sale), grapes (on sale), milk, regular cheese, vegan cheese for my dairy allergic daughter, bread, fish, apples and cat food. 

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13 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

It’s not always lack of access to healthy food that causes overweightness or obesity. Could be lack of mental or physical energy to cook it. 
 

1) If you are already eating junk food, then you won’t have the energy to cook healthy food and meal plan/prep. 
2) If you have a mental illness or physical illness you won’t have the spoons to cook healthy food and meal plan/prep. 
3) If you are forced to work long hours in a demanding job due to low salary you won’t have the mental and physical energy to cook healthy food and meal plan/prep. 

Omg this so much this. 
Me at the moment. 
educated, know how to make and balance healthy meals access to good food. 
mentally fucked and always tired. A roundabout I want off which I know is made worse by my poor diet. 
yep that so can be the reason people are overweight. 
good ju ju to all “struggling” with their weight and their mental health. 

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I'm skinny, but I have high cholesterol. My doctor sent a follow up email after my bloodwork saying, "don't eat simple sugars and carbs, watch what you eat, exercise." This is something they said to someone who a) had an eating disorder for 10 years b) walks 5+ miles a day c) doesn't eat bread, sweets, copious amount of fruit etc. d) is nursing an infant. I can only imagine how lost someone who was overweight would be. I emailed back saying asking for more specific information and she said, "well you don't really need to do anything because they are only slightly elevated." WTF? So then what was the original comment about? Doctors' "Bedside" manner is sorely lacking, and they also should probably be referring people to a dietician or therapist if they really want someone to eat healthier or lose weight. 

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Obesity may impact fertility, but  Michaela is not obese, so I don't understand the discussion. 

Alyssa, Lori Alexander's extra fit, mega slim, ultrahealthy daughter had fertility issues for 8 years. She has been blamed in FJ because her views regarding food and some have said it affected her fertility.

So 2 women facing infertility, one is blamed because she is a bit chubby and the other is blamed because she isn't chubby at all. It's sad.

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1 hour ago, kmachete14 said:

I'm skinny, but I have high cholesterol. My doctor sent a follow up email after my bloodwork saying, "don't eat simple sugars and carbs, watch what you eat, exercise." This is something they said to someone who a) had an eating disorder for 10 years b) walks 5+ miles a day c) doesn't eat bread, sweets, copious amount of fruit etc. d) is nursing an infant. I can only imagine how lost someone who was overweight would be. I emailed back saying asking for more specific information and she said, "well you don't really need to do anything because they are only slightly elevated." WTF? So then what was the original comment about? Doctors' "Bedside" manner is sorely lacking, and they also should probably be referring people to a dietician or therapist if they really want someone to eat healthier or lose weight. 

I’m so sorry this happened to you.  As a mama to a daughter in recovery from anorexia, this makes me so very angry.  Advice like that can easily throw a person into relapse if they’re not far enough along in recovery to know that they can’t restrict and maintain that recovery.  The medical community is so steeped in weight stigma and diet culture, it’s unreal.  
 

If you haven’t read it, an excellent book on the topic is “Food isn’t Medicine” by Dr Joshua Wolrich.  And yes, he acknowledges in the very beginning that food *IS* medicine to someone with an eating disorder, but his book is about calling out diet culture and restrictive diets as “medicine.” 

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I have a friend who briefly went off the deep end about dog food. She was reading all these fringey sites (that looked like refugees from geocities) and freaking herself out about the stuff she had been feeding her dogs. I finally said, "D? All our dogs live to be really old. How much older do you think they will get by changing their diet?" She thought about it a bit and decided that just feeding a premium dog food that was made in the USA was probably sufficient. (And yes, I know there have been some recalls of USA made dog foods, but those mainly seem to be boutique brands.)

As far as I am concerned, vaccinations, dentistry, weight control,  and not letting your dogs play in traffic does more to promote dog longetivity than trying to optimize their diet. And don't forget to chip them!

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3 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

As far as I am concerned, vaccinations, dentistry, weight control,  and not letting your dogs play in traffic does more to promote dog longetivity than trying to optimize their diet. And don't forget to chip them!

Yes yes yes! Canine and feline dentistry is one of my passions and the importance of a healthy mouth to quality of life and longevity cannot be overstated.

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On 11/15/2021 at 7:06 AM, fluffernutter said:

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again- there are areas where there isn’t access to fresh food unless you can grow it yourself.

If obese people only lived in these areas, that would be a convincing argument. But people with obesity live everywhere. They live in big cities, small towns. They have cars or ride buses. They are a diverse group.

Yes, I've been to communities where there is very limited access to fresh food. The food bank I worked was partnered with these areas. It felt pretty good to help with such problems. Anyone else want to share their experiences with relieving food insecurity? It's an area I know something about.

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17 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Yes yes yes! Canine and feline dentistry is one of my passions and the importance of a healthy mouth to quality of life and longevity cannot be overstated.

Can I ask a few questions about this? For cats should preventative cleanings be done routinely? If so, how often and does that differ with age of the cat? Also wondering how common gingivitis is in kittens/cats and how to prevent it (including in uncooperative cats when it comes to anything being in their mouths if it’s being wielded by a human)?

We have 3 resident cats and 5 fosters right now (2 one year olds and 3 kittens). Everyone is spayed/neutered ASAP and vaccines etc kept up to date. Before we started fostering last year we had a regular vet office we always went to and we’ve never been told anything much really about our cats teeth. Our oldest two have been going for several years and the vet has looked in their mouth as much as they could (both girls are extremely anxious at the vet and one will bite) but never said much. I figured they’d say if there was a problem.

Then last year we started fostering kittens and some of them have been acutely ill when we get them (from our TNR efforts of the outdoor cats we feed). Because of this we started taking them to a vet that is just a few houses down from us. Every kitten/young cat we’ve taken there has been diagnosed with gingivitis and sent home with meds for it.

The difference between the two situations has made me wonder about what’s what with dental health for my feline overlords. I’m happy to do whatever is needed for their oral health, I’m just realizing it’s an area I am lacking in knowledge/confidence in. 

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@JustEnough My vet suggested giving my princesses dental treats (the green Temptations) and said that she was comfortable with going that route for now. Eventually, they will need to have their teeth cleaned but it’s a big deal since they need to be put under. Your vet should be able to let you know at their annual check up if they have too much tarter build up. 

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