Michaela & Brandon 6: She Is an LPN and He Is Boring.....

[AussieKrissy]

12 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

When is the 1st ultrasound done usually?

I feel for M & B but I can't wish them any children. And I don't think that makes me bad person.

When I got divorced many people felt the need to tell me it was a blessing/so lucky/thank God I didn't have children with him. It hurt so very much to be told this again and again. But in hindsight they were absolutely correct. 

I had a heartbeat confirmation one (ivf) at 6 weeks 6 days 

I think normally its ten to twelve weeks

12 weeks being the scan combined with bloodwork to check for down syndrome. (in aus)

18 to 20 weeks being anatomy scan

I was IVF and then small baby, pre eclamptic so high risk I was having ultrasounds all the time I know that my other mother friends where jealous of how many times I got to see my baby, so I know I was way above the normal amount 

Thank god for medicare the doctors and or midwife never blinked at sending me over to have as mamy ultrasounds as they saw fit. 

that pic they are holding looks less than twelve weeks IMO

it look more like my 6/7 week one 

[RainbowSky]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Ok I’m no expert on IVF. I have never done it. I’ve done IUI not IVF. But I wonder why she wouldn’t be a candidate for either one. Even surrogacy isn’t an option for them? I can’t help but wonder why. 

Sounds like an egg maturity issue is possible.

[AussieKrissy]

talking about medical procedure I am not sure if it would be triggering to some better safe than sorry

Spoiler

Another thing I thought of, is that they could have had genetic testing after the miscarriage either from material naturally lost or through a D&C

I don't know if they would have consented to a D&C, I don't know how fundies feel about that with their stance on abortion 

Does the "baby" have to pass naturally to prove it was not viable or are they allowed to accept a doctors opinion that the "baby" has passed and get a D&C? 

I put  baby in "" because I know it is technically a bunch of cells but to its family it is still a baby and that is how some people like to think of it like that and some are ok with a bunch of cells.

I do wonder how fundies get their heads around this and not only in early baby loss but in later baby loss? 

Do they have to wait for the baby to pass in utero (in a late term pregnancy) before they can be induced?

What a horrible time in life to be going through, to also have to have the abortion crap indoctrination running through your head also.

I know it is a morbid subject but I am interested in how they would handle these kind of situations to marry up with their beliefs  

sorry rambled a bit 

 

[RainbowSky]

2 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

talking about medical procedure I am not sure if it would be triggering to some better safe than sorry

  Hide contents

Another thing I thought of, is that they could have had genetic testing after the miscarriage either from material naturally lost or through a D&C

I don't know if they would have consented to a D&C, I don't know how fundies feel about that with their stance on abortion 

Does the "baby" have to pass naturally to prove it was not viable or are they allowed to accept a doctors opinion that the "baby" has passed and get a D&C? 

I put  baby in "" because I know it is technically a bunch of cells but to its family it is still a baby and that is how some people like to think of it like that and some are ok with a bunch of cells.

I do wonder how fundies get their heads around this and not only in early baby loss but in later baby loss? 

Do they have to wait for the baby to pass in utero (in a late term pregnancy) before they can be induced?

What a horrible time in life to be going through, to also have to have the abortion crap indoctrination running through your head also.

I know it is a morbid subject but I am interested in how they would handle these kind of situations to marry up with their beliefs  

sorry rambled a bit 

 

Ask Michelle Duggar. 

[AussieKrissy]

22 minutes ago, RainbowSky said:

Ask Michelle Duggar. 

yeah I think jubilee passed and then she was induced or went into labour naturally a few days later 

I did think about her actually 

[RainbowSky]

8 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

yeah I think jubilee passed and then she was induced or went into labour naturally a few days later 

I did think about her actually 

I was talking about having a baby born super early because of preeclampsia too!

[Keys]

I know about their dangerous beliefs etc, but I can’t help but feel so sorry for her. How tragic to have the one thing you’ve always wanted, for just a second before it’s taken away again. 

It’s something they never need to share, or feel obligated to, but I am curious about what fertility issues they have that prohibit both IVF and surrogacy, and she’s also been pregnant. The ultrasound pic is very small, but to me it looks like it’s very very early (?4-5 weeks)? I wonder if the determination that it was a girl was also done via genetic testing afterwards. There aren’t many genetic conditions that would be present in 100% of the embryos a couple conceives, and the ones that are are very, very rare. 
 

Edited to add that after reading, it doesn’t seem like there are contraindications to IVF apart from not being healthy enough to undergo the ovarian stimulation (ex. Heart or lung issues) - doesn’t seem like this is the case for her? Her clotting disorder shouldn’t be an issue either because a blood thinner can be used during the process. So I wonder more about a genetic issue as well. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Keys

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Ok I’m no expert on IVF. I have never done it. I’ve done IUI not IVF. But I wonder why she wouldn’t be a candidate for either one. Even surrogacy isn’t an option for them? I can’t help but wonder why

Both IVF and surrogacy need Michaela's eggs. To obtain the eggs, the woman must take a lot of hormones and then there is a medical procedure to extract them. It is not only painful (physical and emotional), but also has medical risks too and some women shouldn't do it. The IVF risks are often silenced because it is a business after all. Being an egg donor (do it several times) increases cancer risk, etc.

I have friends who tried IVF and never succeded and they were devastated (doctors and society tend to imply that it is easier than it really is...) . The amount of pressure to be fertile does not only happen in fundieland. 

 

[indianabones]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

I don't know if they would have consented to a D&C, I don't know how fundies feel about that with their stance on abortion 

Erin had at least one D&C before she got pregnant with Carson. They seem fine with the procedure as long as there's no fetal heartbeat and the doctor recommends getting one.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Spoiler

I have a fundie friend who had multiple losses at different gestational ages. For one of them they did not do a d&c or anything else with hope/intention to pass out naturally. It did not. Without details, I will simply say it was very unpleasant for her. And I believe other losses she followed recommendations which i believe at least 1 was d&c and 1 was induced. They also decided the sex of some of the fetuses even though they didn't know for sure. Gave them names etc. Just for closure.

I have attempted to block a possible trigger above. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by WatchingTheTireFireBurn
Tried to fix it

[neuroticcat]

I can't remember their exact clotting conditions, but I have a clotting issue in pregnancy. Some OBs recommend the shots as a prophylactic. Others will wait until recurrent loss or close family history of clotting. Some only do it first trimester. It really can vary quite widely. The blood thinners aren't without risks and can cause problems with L&D too. A lot of times OBs will start by just recommending daily baby aspirin and then only do blood thinners if there's a clot or loss. 

 

[llucie]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

Both IVF and surrogacy need Michaela's eggs. To obtain the eggs, the woman must take a lot of hormones and then there is a medical procedure to extract them. It is not only painful (physical and emotional), but also has medical risks too and some women shouldn't do it. The IVF risks are often silenced because it is a business after all. Being an egg donor (do it several times) increases cancer risk, etc.

 

 

That makes sense that the clotting dissorders prevent her from going throught the egg retrieval process. She of course should keep her medical issues private if thats what she wants but i admit i got curious when she said she couldnt even do surrogacy medically.

Of course there is also the option of donor eggs or embryo adoption but dont know if they would consider it as an option or not. Embryo adoption seems to atract religious people particularly so i think it could be a good option for them if she can get pregnant.

[CarrotCake]

If they would go for non-biological children I think they would choose 'regular' adoption over embryo adoption or donor eggs.

[nolongerIFBx]

10 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

talking about medical procedure I am not sure if it would be triggering to some better safe than sorry

  Hide contents

Another thing I thought of, is that they could have had genetic testing after the miscarriage either from material naturally lost or through a D&C

I don't know if they would have consented to a D&C, I don't know how fundies feel about that with their stance on abortion 

Does the "baby" have to pass naturally to prove it was not viable or are they allowed to accept a doctors opinion that the "baby" has passed and get a D&C? 

I put  baby in "" because I know it is technically a bunch of cells but to its family it is still a baby and that is how some people like to think of it like that and some are ok with a bunch of cells.

I do wonder how fundies get their heads around this and not only in early baby loss but in later baby loss? 

Do they have to wait for the baby to pass in utero (in a late term pregnancy) before they can be induced?

What a horrible time in life to be going through, to also have to have the abortion crap indoctrination running through your head also.

I know it is a morbid subject but I am interested in how they would handle these kind of situations to marry up with their beliefs  

sorry rambled a bit 

 

I saw it handled both ways. Both my mother and my SIL had 2nd trimester losses and had D&Cs. But I also knew of women in the various churches we attended that did carry until their body naturally went into labor.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

It’s interesting that she said they weren’t sharing their pregnancy story before she said so much. Does she mean that she’s not telling what fertility drugs she used?

[EmiSue]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

It’s interesting that she said they weren’t sharing their pregnancy story before she said so much. Does she mean that she’s not telling what fertility drugs she used?

Maybe. She also didn't say when this happened, how far along, if anything specific is suspected to have caused the loss, etc. What she does say is a lot of fundie word-salad while keeping details private. I would too if I were her.

[Giraffe]

I have distant relatives who were very open that they were quiverfull (their words) but also open that two was their limit. She was told by a non-obstetrical specialist that getting pregnant one more time would absolutely kill her. But her insistence that they were still quiverfull felt like a desperate way of maintaining her sense of being in the “in” group.  

[NachosFlandersStyle]

17 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But there are definitely some pros in the fundie world.

A close friend of mine is the only child of a fundie-lite family, born later in his parents' life after years of infertility. I can't speak to his full experience, but I know that his parents came around to accepting his being gay because they realized they couldn't lose contact with their only child. I'm guessing that the parent-child relationship is more of a two-way street when you don't have half a dozen siblings they can focus their energy on if you cut them off.

Edited February 2, 2023 by NachosFlandersStyle
typo

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

A close friend of mine is the only child of a fundie-lite family, born later in his parents' life after years of infertility. I can't speak to his full experience, but I know that his parents came around to accepting his being gay because they realized they couldn't lose contact with their only child. I'm guessing that the parent-child relationship is more of a two-way street when you don't have half a dozen siblings they can focus their energy on if you cut them off.

I always kind of figured that too. It’s probably easy for Jim Bob to partially cut Jill off because he has 18 others to focus on. 

[JMO]

17 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

When is the 1st ultrasound done usually?

It depends of the doctor/who is following you.  When I was seeing a fertility doctor with my son the first US was at 5 weeks because they were doing weekly ultrasounds anyway.  With my next two I was seeing a doctor that also did ultrasounds regularly for his high risk patients and I had my first at around 6-7 weeks.  But I've had friends not get their first until later in pregnancy.  Since she is high risk and may have seen a fertility specialist it was probably quite early.  

[sleepygirl1]

I feel awful for them. As someone who has seen my own mother have stillbirths and miscarriages that is terrible.

[Jana814]

I feel terrible for them. 

[Rowan]

22 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Both IVF and surrogacy need Michaela's eggs. To obtain the eggs, the woman must take a lot of hormones and then there is a medical procedure to extract them. It is not only painful (physical and emotional), but also has medical risks too and some women shouldn't do it. The IVF risks are often silenced because it is a business after all. Being an egg donor (do it several times) increases cancer risk, etc.

I wonder if her AMH level is too low. That’s the hormone that indicates how ovarian response is likely to be - either natural ovulation from your body’s own hormones or from stimulation from medication. If she’s under the threshold that most doctors would accept, she’d likely need more hormones but end up with few or even no mature eggs after retrieval. The doctor likely would be realistic that their chances aren’t very good for the cost and the toll on your body, and the clinic also wouldn’t want the hit to their stats (brutal, but that’s how it is).  
 

Not to say that is their situation, but it’s certainly something that would knock them out of the IVF game before they even started. 

[AussieKrissy]

So weird, It never dawned on me that IVF is a business 

It totally is 

I guess in Australia It may not dawn on people that it is a business because we get some of our IVF care rebated and our meds are rebated too

I was flabbergasted to see the price of meds other ladies were paying 100s if not thousands of dollars for needles I paid 30 dollars for. 

My daughter is about to turn 7 and I remember my biggest lump sum payment was 8k and I got about 5 k of that back from Medicare.

It never dawned on me that Clinics would care about their stats and refuse a patient because of it, maybe I am ditzy but it didn't even occur to me to ask what the clinics success stats were. I just went on personal recommendation.

Again, I was surprised to  see women I follow on insta trying one clinic it not working and then trying others. Maybe I am showing my ignorance (and privilege of a successful baby). But I kind of assumed that all the clinics did the same thing.

The reason I picked my clinic was because I knew other single women looking for donors who used this clinic and I had done some calling around to verify that some clinics focused on families over single women and others who had very long wait lists 

This clinic was obs very well known in the lesbian community as being very LGBT friendly, I work with a lot of gay women so that is how I found out. 

I think it sums up my personality I kind of just float along and things just kind of come my way 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Almost everything will cost you in America. It’s the American way to make big bucks off of anything you can. Including life saving meds. It’s disgusting.