Erin & Chad 7: Reckless Behavior in a Pandemic Has Consequences

[HereticHick]

I only today noticed that in Erin's latest home redecorating spree, she is storing books backwards (presumably to present a more Instagrammable neutral look).  Erin, please don't do that. It makes Librarians like me die a little inside. : )

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNF3CokrEtk/

[OyToTheVey]

14 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I only today noticed that in Erin's latest home redecorating spree, she is storing books backwards (presumably to present a more Instagrammable neutral look).  Erin, please don't do that. It makes Librarians like me die a little inside. : )

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNF3CokrEtk/

Or she doesn't want people analyzing her selection of Jesus books. Anything is possible at this point.

[tanba]

2 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Or she doesn't want people analyzing her selection of Jesus books. Anything is possible at this point.

From what Carlin once said about picking up books from Good Will for the aesthetic (they don't even read, y'all), I do think it's more the aesthetic, although we have seen Erin read, I think.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Erin is all about the looks of things in her home. She probably reads the books but their spines don’t match her decor. It why she put a damn ladder in a tiny bedroom housing four young children. 

[Johannah]

She seems to have the spines facing upward, so at least they are low enough that they could be read if you were standing over them?

Also, I think a lot of those might be journals. Erin is very into journaling and those books look pretty slim and like some of them might be spiral bound.  

[Lgirlrocks]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:49 AM, rebeccawriter01 said:

As someone who adopted through an international adoption (twice), I will say that there are a lot of fundies and evangelicals participating in the process. It was insane to me to be surrounded by people who had such radical views of life, religion, etc. However, that being said, the television fundies aren't really great candidates. The income guidelines are strict. I don't know how these organizations and governments would be about reality television money, but I had to account for every dime and where I got it. I inherited a small amount from a great aunt. They made me show the will she had and proof of her death to make sure that wasn't money I had gotten illegally. I get money from things I write. I had to show where each transaction came from and how I did it. There was talk of categorizing money based on legitimate or steady work versus gifts versus nonsustainable, etc.

You have to go through home studies and show that there is enough physical space and that you have childcare. I had to indicate how close was the closest hospital and where would I send my child to school. You had to show how you would have an adjustment plan. That meant for us that there were 3-5 months where I was primary caregiver and there were few outside visitors. That equaled my parents and the babysitter I hired. No cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. during that time. It wasn't an issue for me, but I can't see some countries condoning a reality show being filmed during the transition period. 

There were several children in the children's home when I first adopted. When I arrived there were four other couples adopting. I was frowned upon by them for wearing pants. I was able to pick up my daughter for gotcha day on a Friday. The other couples all went to church together with the pregnant women, children still waiting, and childcare employees. Two of the couples were talking about their other children and spoke about ATI and homeschooling. They were shocked and somewhat offended that I was a single woman. The organization in the US that I went through wanted us all to write our experience in a letter that would be posted on the website. Mine was very practical and pragmatic. The others spoke about being called on by God to spread his word through adoption. They spoke of saving a child from a heathen upbringing. 

This is all purely anecdotal and purely my opinion. I just don't see Erin adopting and giving up visits from every relative and filming. Michaela would probably do it. Erin is just as much about the attention as I often accuse Carlin of being. 

One of the Collinsworth (I think I spelled that right) daughters did international adoption. She posted on her IG that they can’t show pictures of the babies face for two years after the adoption. When pictures are posted of him they always cover his eyes/face. Not sure if it’s where they adopted or if all international adoption is like that. If it is then the Bates would have a hard time doing the show. 
my family looked into international adoption, this was in the early 2000’s. You had to make 10k a year per member of your family including the child you wanted to adopt. This would hinder a lot of them from adopting. 

[Vivi_music]

On 4/12/2021 at 2:02 PM, HereticHick said:

I only today noticed that in Erin's latest home redecorating spree, she is storing books backwards (presumably to present a more Instagrammable neutral look).  Erin, please don't do that. It makes Librarians like me die a little inside. : )

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNF3CokrEtk/

I actually follow a lot of Instagram home decor accounts, because I think it's a good source of inspiration to find ideas for your home. I have found inspiration for sure when browsing on these accounts. But believe me, doesn't mean my appartment is picture perfect.

I dunno, it's her home so she can do whatever she wants. Re-decorate it 5 times a year if she wishes, but personally, I'd hate it if my life was curated to always be Instagram-worthy. Like, no way I'm gonna pick books for my library based on color. I pick books I wanna read. Mr. Music loves to collect figurines, mugs, bubble heads and such from his favourite comics. He loves to carefully display them on shelves in our office. I'm not gonna tell him to hide them away because it doesn't blend in well with my decor ideas. I'm not saying Erin does such a thing. I just feel I would never be able to live in such carefully decorated home.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

One of the Collinsworth (I think I spelled that right) daughters did international adoption. She posted on her IG that they can’t show pictures of the babies face for two years after the adoption. When pictures are posted of him they always cover his eyes/face. Not sure if it’s where they adopted or if all international adoption is like that. If it is then the Bates would have a hard time doing the show. 
my family looked into international adoption, this was in the early 2000’s. You had to make 10k a year per member of your family including the child you wanted to adopt. This would hinder a lot of them from adopting. 

I believe they adopted Theo from Thailand. The Collingsworths all seem to have money and live in a fairly low cost of living area of the country. I wish they would just cover his face with one big blue heart instead of blue hearts over his eyes. The heart eyes are a little creepy. 

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

One of the Collinsworth (I think I spelled that right) daughters did international adoption. She posted on her IG that they can’t show pictures of the babies face for two years after the adoption. When pictures are posted of him they always cover his eyes/face. Not sure if it’s where they adopted or if all international adoption is like that. If it is then the Bates would have a hard time doing the show. 
my family looked into international adoption, this was in the early 2000’s. You had to make 10k a year per member of your family including the child you wanted to adopt. This would hinder a lot of them from adopting. 

It can vary by country, but many of the fundies and evangelicals I came across in my experience were only interested in Asian children because of ____________________________ reasons. I have my suspicions, but I'm sure there are a variety of biases. Adoption from Africa was cheaper, but had some requirements I couldn't handle or conform to in order to do it. 

Rules may have changed, but for example China at the time I completed my second adoption did not allow single women, required a certain BMI, and had a $10K per year per family member requirement. Some South American countries required one adoptive parent (assuming there are two) live in the country six months to one year ahead of the finalization to ensure a good fit with the child and parent(s). Some had social media rules that probably couldn't be enforced but were strongly encouraged. A friend of mine and her husband went to South Korea to adopt two children with special needs. The children were in a foster home and the adoptive parents were taken to the foster parents' home to meet the children. Talk about a potentially awkward situation. Another friend adopted from Guatemala (before the program was shut down) and said it was the easiest thing ever. She flew down and they practically met her at the airport with the baby and said good luck. Another adopted from Haiti and had to provide proof of weekly church attendance for a year before placement was made. I was fortunate not to have to do all of those things. I had a home study (standard) and interviews that asked some very personal questions, but the hardest parts were getting files translated and timing everything to get travel paperwork. I don't think I was actually breathing normally until we were back on US soil. 

Private adoption is expensive usually, but can be more practical. However, that can mean inclusion of the birth parent(s) in a more intimate way. In my case with international, I send pics and a letter once a year with an update. Foster care adoption is quite a bit cheaper and has fewer rules, but from talking to some fundies/evangelicals, they wanted a baby to raise in the ways of Jesus rather than a child who might have been raised to consider sin the norm. I would also guess that race is a strong contributor in that area too. After all, you can only "reject" a child from social service organizations so many times before you are flagged either literally or figuratively as a bad prospective parent. 

 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

The children were in a foster home and the adoptive parents were taken to the foster parents' home to meet the children. Talk about a potentially awkward situation.

Actually, this seems like the best way for the child. They get to meet their new parents in a safe place, their foster home. It's much better than taking the kids to a hotel or some other place. The foster parents get to meet the new parents too, which will help with their transition. Best of all, the kids get to see that all the adults involved are on the same page (hopefully they will be)

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Actually, this seems like the best way for the child. They get to meet their new parents in a safe place, their foster home. It's much better than taking the kids to a hotel or some other place. The foster parents get to meet the new parents too, which will help with their transition. Best of all, the kids get to see that all the adults involved are on the same page (hopefully they will be)

Typically yes, but this wasn't situated in a healthy way at all.  For example the translator kept leaving and was not fully translating. The foster parents were screaming about something and the translator would say they were talking about something mundane. Two days later the foster father and his friend who spoke some English showed up at the hotel wanting to negotiate for one of the children. 

While real settings can be great, there is something to be said for more neutral ones. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Another friend adopted from Guatemala (before the program was shut down) and said it was the easiest thing ever. She flew down and they practically met her at the airport with the baby and said good luck

That’s a big reason why it was shut down. So many kids had parents but were tricked into giving up their kids. Lots of people made money selling kids to Americans. I’m not saying your friend was shady. I’m sure plenty of folks had no idea they were adopting kids that were basically stolen. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[Melissa1977]

5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That’s a big reason why it was shut down. So many kids had parents but were tricked into giving up their kids. Lots of people made money selling kids to Americans. I’m not saying your friend was shady. I’m sure plenty of folks had no idea they were adopting kids that were basically stolen. 

International adoption can be problematic and that is the main issue. Wasn't Madonna the one who adopted a little orphan and after the adoption the bio father complained? (I may be wrong with this story, sorry if it is the case).

After civil war in my country (1939), poverty was extreme. Many families left children in orphanages for them to be feed for a while, but some were given to adoptive families, in addition to single moms who were probably OK with adoption but didn't know babies were SOLD! there was a huge scandal involving nuns and priests SELLING kids. I know I'm talking about long time ago, but this has happened in other countries too. That's the reason adoption must be controlled and easy adoption process sound suspictious. A high-troubled country cannot offer safe adoptions and that's why some of the poorest countries are not suitable for adoptions, despite having children who need it.

I know plenty of international adoptive families. Adoption was popular in my country in 1990's-2000's. Process was long, but easier than nowadays because some countries like China had plenty of kids ready to be adopted. People complain that there are less children to adopt now... But it is good news, because it means less families are poor and less children are abandoned.

There is racism in international adoption and it is a huge red flag for me. I know families who wanted a chinese girl (because cuteness) but would had never adopted a kid from another ethnic background. 

 

[rebeccawriter01]

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

That’s a big reason why it was shut down. So many kids had parents but were tricked into giving up their kids. Lots of people made money selling kids to Americans. I’m not saying your friend was shady. I’m sure plenty of folks had no idea they were adopting kids that were basically stolen. 

My friend was distraught to learn that the child she adopted was potentially sold and still struggles with this today. She had gone through a reputable agency and saw no red flags until the actual transfer date. At that point she was standing in a room with a 14 month old who was crying and felt like crying herself. When she went to do the paperwork for bringing her back to the US, she said she asked anyone and everyone was this normal or right - the agency she used had described the process very differently. Officials responded to her that if she didn't want the baby, she needed to essentially abandon her so that she could be taken back to a group home. Once back in the states, she attempted to find out more about her daughter's origins and background by even hiring a specialist in such cases. He was unsuccessful in finding the details or a birth parent. I don't know how it would have been handled if he had found a relative.

That was all something I took into consideration when I chose where to adopt from and how to go through the process. While I could have been lied to about it, I am comfortable with the process we had. My girls were both infants at the time of adoption. In both cases I met with the birth mother and a translator to discuss certain things (medical history, hopes for updates, reasons for placing a child for adoption, etc.). We were able to get pictures and even a short video both times that I can share with my girls as they grow up and ask questions about the situation. Every part of the experience for me included trained professionals who helped me with everything from transportation and food to paperwork and travel arrangements when there was a potential delay. Thankfully it wasn't as tough as the one my friend and her husband had in South Korea or as scary as some of my friends have had it. I shared my experience to contrast it with some of the issues that friends have had in their quest to become parents. 

Many of the agencies cater toward placing children in Christian homes. This was part of my struggle because I don't identify as Christian and don't fit the stereotypes that some agencies believed that the wife stays home and the husband works. I was single and had a single income. I didn't receive church related grants and struggled with some countries requirements about church attendance and even one that wanted a signed affidavit about cutting out all LGBTQ people from my life. I refused that requirement and changed to another agency.   

In terms of Chad and Erin, I think they would find some road blocks with international adoption that would be different than mine. First, they would question income because most agencies and countries require it to be a bit more steady than self-employment and a reality show with 18 siblings and your parents. Home visits would check on such things as square footage compared to number of members of the family. One of my daughters had a health issue (turned out to be nothing) and I even had to show how close it was to medical care and the hospital. The psychological tests for some places can be daunting. I realized some questions were directed toward people like the Bates and Duggar families regarding how many children, using older children to raise younger children, etc. I know from conversations with some of the more religious families there when I was adopting, they were asked about some of the more extreme beliefs in their churches and if they would be okay if the child did not conform to those ideals. International adoption isn't their only option, but it is one that is popular even within IBLP because they consider it an extension of mission work. 

Personally, I anticipate some lip service toward adoption and praying/consulting with God to lead them on the right path. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by rebeccawriter01

[FrumpyAtheist]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

International adoption can be problematic and that is the main issue. Wasn't Madonna the one who adopted a little orphan and after the adoption the bio father complained? (I may be wrong with this story, sorry if it is the case).

After civil war in my country (1939), poverty was extreme. Many families left children in orphanages for them to be feed for a while, but some were given to adoptive families, in addition to single moms who were probably OK with adoption but didn't know babies were SOLD! there was a huge scandal involving nuns and priests SELLING kids. I know I'm talking about long time ago, but this has happened in other countries too. That's the reason adoption must be controlled and easy adoption process sound suspictious. A high-troubled country cannot offer safe adoptions and that's why some of the poorest countries are not suitable for adoptions, despite having children who need it.

I know plenty of international adoptive families. Adoption was popular in my country in 1990's-2000's. Process was long, but easier than nowadays because some countries like China had plenty of kids ready to be adopted. People complain that there are less children to adopt now... But it is good news, because it means less families are poor and less children are abandoned.

There is racism in international adoption and it is a huge red flag for me. I know families who wanted a chinese girl (because cuteness) but would had never adopted a kid from another ethnic background. 

 

Unfortunately it isn't always true that the decline in available children for international adoption correlates to fewer children needing adopting. It is true in many countries, and that's a wonderful thing, but in the case of others like Russia and Romania, it's more a political decision. The number of abandoned, disabled, or abused children has not declined in those countries. But they saw the outflow of adopted children as a political embarrassment and abolished it. Sadly there are still many children that could benefit from international adoptions who no longer have that option. 

It's tricky for countries to balance fighting abuses within the adoption system and encouraging domestic adoption (which is always preferable if possible) with giving needy children better lives they can't get domestically through international adoption. A home abroad is better than a childhood institutionalized domestically.

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I know families who wanted a chinese girl (because cuteness) but would had never adopted a kid from another ethnic background. 

I don't understand. Are you saying Chinese children are "cuter" than say, Indian children or Vietnamese children?

Also, China has 56 ethnic groups. Which ethnic group are you referring to?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Jackie3

[OHFL2009]

50 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I don't understand. Are you saying Chinese children are "cuter" than say, Indian children or Vietnamese children?

Also, China has 56 ethnic groups. Which ethnic group are you referring to?

I think @Melissa1977 was conveying the opinions of other people, not her own. 

[Jackie3]

8 minutes ago, OHFL2009 said:

I think @Melissa1977 was conveying the opinions of other people, not her own. 

Here's what I heard--"Chinese baby girls are really cute! They'd've never adopted from India or Ethiopia because they wanted a really cute kid! Can you believe how racist some people are?"

I think it's appropriate to call out racist comments like this one. Much better than remaining silent about it, at least I think so.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Jackie3

[purple_summer]

Just now, Jackie3 said:

I hope so. I don't know what "because cuteness" even means. That kind of racism is pretty ugly. And the ignorance about China's ethnicities is also pretty surprising.

I have seen adoption blogs/forums where people referred to adopting a “little China doll” or other super racist stereotypes. Fetishes in adoption are a thing. 

[Melissa1977]

58 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I don't understand. Are you saying Chinese children are "cuter" than say, Indian children or Vietnamese children?

Also, China has 56 ethnic groups. Which ethnic group are you referring to?

I say some Europeans prefered Chinese baby girls because Asian girls are considered cute and some people are not open to adopt children from other places.

China has different ethnic groups but you know the mainstream western view sees Chinese and South-Asian people like a big ethnic group and if you read at adoption forums you will see these and other racist issues.

 

[Melissa1977]

23 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

I have seen adoption blogs/forums where people referred to adopting a “little China doll” or other super racist stereotypes. Fetishes in adoption are a thing. 

It's true. And sadly, nobody seems to call "doll" to the girls from certain countries. I know a family who was only open to adopt from Russia because they wanted kids that looked like them (they even changed the kids names despite they were old enough to know their names). I know a family who was devastated because hadn't money enough to adopt in X country and had to pick another where the skin tone wasn't the preferred. 

This is the reality of adoption. Of course there is a huge other reality, of those who adopt full of love and open to care the kid no matter what. I know plenty of them too!!! But the fact that money helps to choose the favourite features may be very problematic.

[kmachete14]

10 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

There is racism in international adoption and it is a huge red flag for me. I know families who wanted a chinese girl (because cuteness) but would had never adopted a kid from another ethnic background. 

This is the quotation people are taking out of context. Please read. The OP is saying that this type of racism is a huge red flag for her  -- and then she gives the racist example from families she knows, not herself. She isn't saying Chinese babies are cuter than any other ethnicity, she is saying that's what people she knew thought! And she thinks this is racist! Geez. Please read with context people. 

[FrumpyAtheist]

Eh, not all international adoption preferences are due to racism. Many people try to adopt a child of their same skin tone to make things easier for the child so they won't stand out. China has historically been popular in part because drug and alcohol abuse there is extremely low among women. Likewise many do not want to adopt from Russia or other countries due to the high prevalence of fetal alcohol syndrome, drug problems (this is a big problem in U.S. adoptions), or malnutrition, or religious restrictions like a PP mentioned. There are all kinds of reasons not related to racism.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I suggest ignoring the shit stirring going on here.

[WiseGirl]

17 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I suggest ignoring the shit stirring going on here.

I agree. How did books turned backward get to be a thing? Anyway if Erin likes to decorate so much she should team up with Chad and do the staging of places he flips, builds, or whatever he does. Hmm what exactly does he do? He has a construction business right? Alyssa's husband does HVAC, Kelton has a successful plumbing business and hired Bobby (right?) Evan is becoming an electrician, Nathan pilots, and Lawson (and the Duggar boys) do what exactly?

Interesting that the girls all married people who work (looking at you Gil).