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Erin & Chad 7: Reckless Behavior in a Pandemic Has Consequences


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AussieKrissy

She could adopt a embryo. If their religious ideals (sins of the father shit) allows it. I don’t know why she would personally. I would learn to be happy with what I have.  I have wondered if Micheal will go this route. But as I don’t know her or his medical condition that is stopping them... 

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SassyPants
25 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Leaving up to God is just not using birth control and (try to) be content with zero to twenty kids. Adoption is giving a family to a kid without one. These are two differents things IMO. 

I agree, but do fundies look at it from that perspective; that of the child?

7 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

She could adopt a embryo. If their religious ideals (sins of the father shit) allows it. I don’t know why she would personally. I would learn to be happy with what I have.  I have wondered if Micheal will go this route. But as I don’t know her or his medical condition that is stopping them... 

I’ve always wondered if a sister or brother would help out a childless couple by being a donor (egg/sperm) or a surrogate. Would this be something that they would approve of and support?

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FrumpyAtheist

I have no evidence for this claim but I just get the feeling it’s Brandon who isn’t interested in going down the IVF or adoption route; I suspect Michael love to. I just get the vibe from him he doesn’t care that much about having kids the way Michael does. Also, both adoption and fertility treatment are very expensive so I’m sure he would think they couldn’t afford it.

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rebeccawriter01
18 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I agree, but do fundies look at it from that perspective; that of the child?

I’ve always wondered if a sister or brother would help out a childless couple by being a donor (egg/sperm) or a surrogate. Would this be something that they would approve of and support?

I don't know their beliefs on the subject, but would guess from other contextual clues within the IBLP platform and teachings that surrogacy, donors, etc. would be discouraged as not trusting God. Not all fundies are going to believe the same thing, but when Kelly Jo was asked about her use of progesterone to sustain a pregnancy and how that seemed borderline to many of Gothard and IBLP practices, she was quick to say that it was okay because the life was already created. She said in one interview that she would not take fertility medication or do a medical procedure to create or start a pregnancy but would do whatever medical intervention was necessary to sustain one. She likened it to taking a child who was hurt to the hospital for treatment. 

Like Brandon who works for IBLP/ATI, Chad probably had more pressure than most of the sons-in-law with his father serving on the IBLP board with Gil Bates. The pressure has to be enormous on these grown children to live their lives in accordance with some of these beliefs. While Brandon is working from home right now, I would think it would be a struggle for him personally to have to work one on one with people in the hierarchy at IBLP and go against some of the core beliefs. On camera at least, he and Michaela speak that IBLP/fundie talk of God's timing. If they were to adopt, use a surrogate, try IVF, etc., that is evidence that they did not trust God's plan for their lives. That is a big huge step for them, especially Brandon who would be judged harshly by his peers and superiors at work. 

Erin has said in the past that they don't follow Gothard or those teachings, but they seem to still follow if not in name but practice. We'll see how much push back Michaela and Erin perform on these subjects. I would hate for either woman to deny what she wants because a religion says we should be patient and wait on God's plan and timing.  

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Johannah

Based on KJ’s rationale of the life already having been created, that would also apply to adoption of a child or an embryo in their minds. Maybe Erin and Michael will go to that huge Christian embryo adoption center in Nashville together to save some little baby souls. That would be quite the plot twist. 

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Audrey2

This leads to a topic which drives me buggy on both sides. We all know the fundies that we follow are extremely and vocally anti-abortion. On one hand I do not want to see them adopt any other children and indoctrinate any other children into their cult. On the other hand I think if they are so loudly anti-abortion they need to step up and provide homes for the babies who are delivered and then after a year or two are unable to be cared for by their parents.

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RosyDaisy

They are no different than the rest of the pto-lifers.  They only care that the baby is born.  They don't give two shits what happens to it afterwards.

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Bluebirdbluebell

I said it before, but Michael/Brandon and Erin/Chad probably are right to be concerned about money. IBLP will hopefully close at some point and then Brandon would be out of a job.  Erin and Chad already have four children to provide for in their two bedroom house. 

As for IVF, Erin already had high-risk pregnancies, because of her clotting-disorder. I would imagine the risks would go up in terms of being pregnant after all she's been through. 

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Melissa1977
57 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

As for IVF, Erin already had high-risk pregnancies, because of her clotting-disorder. I would imagine the risks would go up in terms of being pregnant after all she's been through

Exactly. Erin cannot safely hold a pregnancy, no matter if it is natural or IVF. In addition, IVF mothers need a lot of hormones, it's not always safe for the women's health and I very much doubt a woman with Erin's health issues can succesfully undergo a treatment like that.

IVF is hard. It's very hard for the eggs donor and very hard for the woman who tries to get pregnant. Emotionally (because the hormones and because not always succesful) and physically painful, and as I said before, it's not always safe for the health. I have the feeling some people think it's easy, like an insemination, but it's far more complicated.

Erin has never talked about adoption. She has 4 kids, is not well-off and is recovering from a extreme hard year. I don't understand why there are so many comments about her adopting. 

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Bluebirdbluebell
9 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Exactly. Erin cannot safely hold a pregnancy, no matter if it is natural or IVF. In addition, IVF mothers need a lot of hormones, it's not always safe for the women's health and I very much doubt a woman with Erin's health issues can succesfully undergo a treatment like that.

IVF is hard. It's very hard for the eggs donor and very hard for the woman who tries to get pregnant. Emotionally (because the hormones and because not always succesful) and physically painful, and as I said before, it's not always safe for the health. I have the feeling some people think it's easy, like an insemination, but it's far more complicated.

Erin has never talked about adoption. She has 4 kids, is not well-off and is recovering from a extreme hard year. I don't understand why there are so many comments about her adopting. 

She may also have long-term health problems from COVID. It can be quite hard on the heart and lungs.

Erin and Chad always assumed they'd have a big family. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point they did adopt. 

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Melissa1977
1 minute ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

She may also have long-term health problems from COVID. It can be quite hard on the heart and lungs.

Erin and Chad always assumed they'd have a big family. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point they did adopt. 

Considering how expensive healthcare in US is, they may need a long time to pay for all the surgeries and appointments Erin had last year. It means no money for a new house and no money for adoption. 

Instead of adoption, I really really hope Erin comes back to her music career, as a pianist or as a teacher. She was so proud and happy. 

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Bluebirdbluebell
5 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Considering how expensive healthcare in US is, they may need a long time to pay for all the surgeries and appointments Erin had last year. It means no money for a new house and no money for adoption. 

Instead of adoption, I really really hope Erin comes back to her music career, as a pianist or as a teacher. She was so proud and happy. 

I'm not sure how long that will take. I didn't mean they would adopt immediately. I'm also not necessarily hoping they adopt.

I don't know if it's a fundie or an American thing, but people here tend to think they're entitled to what they want. Erin wants more kids so she may try to have more.

Also people on forums like to root for most the dramatic outcomes. Why Lauren Caldwell and Duggar boy? Because two sisters married to two brother is dramatic! Maybe Erin will adopt 10 more kids! It's dramatic! 

I agree it would be good for Erin to focus on her music. 

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RosyDaisy
31 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I agree it would be good for Erin to focus on her music

That and the 4 kids and animals she already has.  How all of that isn't enough, I'll never understand.

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FaithAndReason

I never understand why there's so much talk on FJ about fundies adopting. There has never been any indication from these families that they are serious about adoption. They talk about it because it is good for PR and their TV brand. What have they done that shows true intent to adopt? Nothing. In fact, their Goddard beliefs exclude them from adopting because of the "sins of the parents" or whatever bullshit he spewed about adoption. It does not matter that they don't openly worship Goddard anymore, those beliefs are still there. I realize some distant fundie families have adopted but certainly not the IBLP royalty we follow here. There will be no embryo adoption, or baby adoption, or any other adoption.  (And Erin would probably have a stroke at the idea of putting another woman's egg and another man's sperm into her body. They might have had green hair)

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quiversR4hunting

Bates had 10 girls. So far 2 (Michaela & Erin) have fertility issues and Alyssa has superventricular tachycardia. 6 of the 10 girls are married so the jury is still out if there is more fertility issues in the family which makes me wonder about gentics. All things we will never know the answer too and I am not going to play doctor on the internet. I just find it interesting that 3 of the 6 married sisters have health issues that aren't good for child bearing.  The babies at the expense of the woman's physical and mental well being kills me.

And now I remember why I rarely come over to the Bates and Duggar threads. :sigh:

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rebeccawriter01
38 minutes ago, FaithAndReason said:

I never understand why there's so much talk on FJ about fundies adopting. There has never been any indication from these families that they are serious about adoption. They talk about it because it is good for PR and their TV brand. What have they done that shows true intent to adopt? Nothing. In fact, their Goddard beliefs exclude them from adopting because of the "sins of the parents" or whatever bullshit he spewed about adoption. It does not matter that they don't openly worship Goddard anymore, those beliefs are still there. I realize some distant fundie families have adopted but certainly not the IBLP royalty we follow here. There will be no embryo adoption, or baby adoption, or any other adoption.  (And Erin would probably have a stroke at the idea of putting another woman's egg and another man's sperm into her body. They might have had green hair)

As someone who adopted through an international adoption (twice), I will say that there are a lot of fundies and evangelicals participating in the process. It was insane to me to be surrounded by people who had such radical views of life, religion, etc. However, that being said, the television fundies aren't really great candidates. The income guidelines are strict. I don't know how these organizations and governments would be about reality television money, but I had to account for every dime and where I got it. I inherited a small amount from a great aunt. They made me show the will she had and proof of her death to make sure that wasn't money I had gotten illegally. I get money from things I write. I had to show where each transaction came from and how I did it. There was talk of categorizing money based on legitimate or steady work versus gifts versus nonsustainable, etc.

You have to go through home studies and show that there is enough physical space and that you have childcare. I had to indicate how close was the closest hospital and where would I send my child to school. You had to show how you would have an adjustment plan. That meant for us that there were 3-5 months where I was primary caregiver and there were few outside visitors. That equaled my parents and the babysitter I hired. No cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. during that time. It wasn't an issue for me, but I can't see some countries condoning a reality show being filmed during the transition period. 

There were several children in the children's home when I first adopted. When I arrived there were four other couples adopting. I was frowned upon by them for wearing pants. I was able to pick up my daughter for gotcha day on a Friday. The other couples all went to church together with the pregnant women, children still waiting, and childcare employees. Two of the couples were talking about their other children and spoke about ATI and homeschooling. They were shocked and somewhat offended that I was a single woman. The organization in the US that I went through wanted us all to write our experience in a letter that would be posted on the website. Mine was very practical and pragmatic. The others spoke about being called on by God to spread his word through adoption. They spoke of saving a child from a heathen upbringing. 

This is all purely anecdotal and purely my opinion. I just don't see Erin adopting and giving up visits from every relative and filming. Michaela would probably do it. Erin is just as much about the attention as I often accuse Carlin of being. 

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SassyPants
7 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

She may also have long-term health problems from COVID. It can be quite hard on the heart and lungs.

Erin and Chad always assumed they'd have a big family. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point they did adopt. 

By any standards but those of strict fundies, they already have a large family.

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FluffySnowball
10 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

They are no different than the rest of the pto-lifers.  They only care that the baby is born.  They don't give two shits what happens to it afterwards.

That’s the reason I don’t like the term “pro-life”, I find it highly misleading.

It isn’t about respecting life, it isn’t about caring for the well-being and health of the mother, and about adequate healthcare. It’s only about forcing pregnant women to give birth. Essentially, it’s pro-birth, nothing else. 

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Jackie3
2 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Bates had 10 girls. So far 2 (Michaela & Erin) have fertility issues and Alyssa has superventricular tachycardia.  :sigh:

Have they ever said it is Michaela who has the fertility issue, vs. Brandon? I know I've asked this before, but I may have missed the answer.

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OHFL2009
43 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Have they ever said it is Michaela who has the fertility issue, vs. Brandon? I know I've asked this before, but I may have missed the answer.

They said on the show that Brandon had undergone testing that didn't find any issues with him. But I don't think they elaborated on what that testing involved. 

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quiversR4hunting
1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

Have they ever said it is Michaela who has the fertility issue, vs. Brandon? I know I've asked this before, but I may have missed the answer.

This article: https://www.tvshowsace.com/2021/03/20/michaela-bates-update-fertility/ shows this IG ask me anything picture. (picture below in case you don't want to click the link) She says "I took a break from seeing any doctors" and "I am seeing a fertility specialist again" based on the "I" statements I would say they think it is something with her. 

Quote

image.thumb.png.b473d05f0e134a8fe1031cc5d5959795.png

 

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lexiloumarie

They've done some testing and it's unexplained primary infertility - neither appeared to have an issue other than hyper ovulation for Michael which may contribute to their issues but wasn't a definitive answer. That's all that's known at this point unless she's spoken on it on the show again. 

IBLP and Quiverfull would not "allow" for egg donation, sperm donation, or IVF/IUI as that is going against G-d opening and closing the womb. Its all the same as birth control is for their brand of beliefs. 

 

 

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FrumpyAtheist

In an episode a few years ago where they visit Dr. Vick Michael says explicitly they tested Brandon and he's fine. No elaboration on what tests were done. 

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irish_dancing_canadian

Erin should just be grateful she does have 4 kids and now focus on them. Of course she can still grieve that she can’t have anymore. 

I know she’ll miss having an actual baby, but there will be plenty of nieces and nephews born over the next 15 ish years and maybe she can help out her brothers and sisters with babysitting. 

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Melissa1977
6 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

I never understand why there's so much talk on FJ about fundies adopting.

IBLP was against adoption, but many fundies are OK with adoption. It wouldn't surprise me if a fundie couple discussed here eventually adopt, but it would be an exception, exactly as in the no-fundamentalist world. After all, families who adopt are a minority. 

I think the constant comments about IVF, surrogates and adoption as if all of that were easy/normal options is confusing. They are all expensive, some may be problematic and none is easy. I have friends and acquitances who have suffered a lot with IVF (some got a child, others not), friends who tried to adopt (some succeded, others not). Not everybody is suited for adoption, not everybody can have a succesful IVF etc. 

We usually critizise fundies because they force couples to have eleventy children, but people who say "adopt!" just because a couple is infertile, are the same. The answer is not always to have children or to have more children, there are other goals and dreams in life, even in the life of a fundie. I understand people speculating about Michaela adopting, because she has said she was thinking about that, but Erin? She has never said that and she already has 4 children. I hope she doesn't feel pressure to adopt! 

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