Erin & Chad 7: Reckless Behavior in a Pandemic Has Consequences

[SassyPants]

So Erin just wanted one more baby. Any bets on if she’ll always want one more baby?

14 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

I can't imagine Chad would pay for a fertility doctor. However if Erin is legitimately about to go into menopause then she might be hyper fertile, in that stage where her body dumps all her eggs. I can also see Erin. Saying "fertility specialist" instead of endocrinologist.

Carson specifically asked for a little brother. He has 3 sisters, I would 💯 buy that he wants a brother with all those sisters. 

When my son used to beg me for an “older” (LOL) brother, I would tell him that older wasn’t possible, but there was a chance for a younger brother OR another sister. Nay, he was good.

[Knight of Ni]

I wonder if they think that results would be any different if they hadn't prayed. Seems God is a very capricious person and just randomly decides which prayers he will answer. Are there certain requirements such as length of the prayer, number of prayers, location etc.?

Prayer didnt save my sister from cancer. I am not religious so I didn't pray. But a lot of other people did.

 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

In their world, if you do everything right, you will be "blessed" with a good life and babies. Well how are they explaining why Michael can't have at least 1 baby? Helped cook, clean, sew clothes, and raise younger siblings. Saved 1st kiss and still wearing long skirts. There is no way Michael isn't questioning God at the moment. She has been out in the world long enough to also notice non fundamentalists having families as well. I realize infertility can be a struggle for so many, but for her watching all of her siblings become parents has to be tough. Baby showers and gender reveals will go for a LONG time in the Bates family...and she has no choice but to smile, praise God, and move on😕

I've often thought that Michaela got the short end of the Bates family stick.

1. She is the oldest girl in a family of 19. Sorry, to me that is a short stick right there! The oldest girl in a family that believes in strict gender roles.  Imagine all the work that poor girl had to do. There were babies and toddlers in her house her entire childhood. In such families, the girls are far more burdened than the boys, because toddlers need constant attention while the lawn only needs to be mowed once in a while. Her brothers were taught that they didn't have to cook or clean on a regular basis. 

2. She couldn't have gotten much parental attention, other than "Thanks for putting them to bed, Michaela!" Remember, her mom was constantly pregnant. It doesn't surprise me that Michaela decided that she "loved" babies and housework. What choice did she have? 

3. She married a guy who is cold and who didn't even seem to want to get married. That's just my opinion.

4. She or her husband is infertile in a culture that worships baby-making. After watching her mom become pregnant time after time, Michaela must have felt that was her destiny. It must be so difficult to reconcile her situation with what she had planned for her life.

 

 

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I hope so. I don't quite understand how they know for sure this is the last baby.   And how on earth the Bates Sister Boutique is going to keep going if Carlin gets pregnant too--I know they have employees, but I'd love to know if they are really making a profit.

Imagine the fertility doctor said, "I can give you these shots that will increase your chance of pregnancy" or "I can give you these pills that will cause you to ovulate on X day" or even "I can take Chad's sperm and mix it with your remaining eggs."

Erin: "Oh, please, Chad!"

Chad: "Just this ONCE!"

Then they'd know it was their last baby.

Also--there's a big difference between having employees and making a profit. In fact, once often precludes the other.

[Sheltie]

29 minutes ago, Flossie said:

Maybe Michaela's husband isn't praying enough.  Maybe he's praying to not have kids.  Maybe they're using birth control and don't want to admit it?  

Maybe they should just stop talking about it, and it sounds like that's how it's going now.  I admit that  at least once I have commented on this issue in the past, but if Michaela has said she's uncomfortable with all the speculation, I should stop.  I just hope I can remember these are real people and not characters on some weird TV show and stop talking about it.

But as for Michaela's siblings, what can they do?  Should they stop having children so as not to hurt her feelings?  I'd love it if the siblings kept their broods down to a managable number because they're in a destructive cult, but would we expect the same of all people who have an infertile sibling?  Should they all not have children or keep the numbers low to placate the infertile one?

Sadly, in this cult, the siblings can't let Michaela's feelings inhibit them, and I don't think she'd want them to.  Regardless, the others are propegating as fast as they can.  They've got some social media smarts, so they know to say how this is such a miracle, or a blessing, to put the haters off their backs.  But they've been raised to have as many kids as possible, and that's what they're doing.

I don’t think they should stop having kids because Michael can’t and this must be hard on her that they keep having kids.  However, I think it would be considerate of Michael’s feelings to tone it down a bit in saying things like God is so good like Erin put on one of her stories.  Also why talk about how you prayed for just one more and now prayers were answered.  I know they feel that way but it does imply that God apparently isn’t good to Michael. 

[mango_fandango]

4 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Why would anybody wish children to be born into this cult?  They are condemned to a life of physical, mental, and emotional abuse.  No child deserves that.  I don't care how bad infertility sucks.

Ok, maybe I said the wrong thing. It’s a complicated issue. Of course I don’t want anyone to be born into the cult. If Michael never has a child, then I hope she can be OK with it. Infertility is bad enough in the secular world… being raised to believe that your only true calling in life is to be a wife and mother is such a limited worldview. I wish the Bates girls hadn’t been brought up like that, but there we are. 
 

I would also be seriously questioning my beliefs and upbringing (re the only proper calling in life being motherhood) at this point. And “prayer works! Your prayers are always answered!” is all very well if they’re answered in the way you want them to be (ie Carson praying for another baby)… but when they’re not answered in the way you hope? Yeah, that’s shit. 

[Sheltie]

God does answer all prayers but it’s not always the answer we want.  There is nothing wrong with praying and nothing wrong with wanting as many kids as you want.  However, it makes me so sad how they just go on and on about how God heard their prayers and blessed them with this miracle.  They might as well call up Michael and say “Sorry Michael that God is not blessing you like He is blessing us.  God is so good to us.  Sorry He’s not good to you.”

Edited August 25, 2021 by Sheltie

[SassyPants]

23 minutes ago, Sheltie said:

God does answer all prayers but it’s not always the answer we want.  There is nothing wrong with praying and nothing wrong with wanting as many kids as you want.  However, it makes me so sad how they just go on and on about how God heard their prayers and blessed them with this miracle.  They might as well call up Michael and say “Sorry Michael that God is not blessing you like He is blessing us.  God is so good to us.  Sorry He’s not good to you.”

It is highly insensitive and tone deaf at the very, very least.

39 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Ok, maybe I said the wrong thing. It’s a complicated issue. Of course I don’t want anyone to be born into the cult. If Michael never has a child, then I hope she can be OK with it. Infertility is bad enough in the secular world… being raised to believe that your only true calling in life is to be a wife and mother is such a limited worldview. I wish the Bates girls hadn’t been brought up like that, but there we are. 
 

I would also be seriously questioning my beliefs and upbringing (re the only proper calling in life being motherhood) at this point. And “prayer works! Your prayers are always answered!” is all very well if they’re answered in the way you want them to be (ie Carson praying for another baby)… but when they’re not answered in the way you hope? Yeah, that’s shit. 

I also wonder if they already know it’s a boy? Wonder how tender hearted  Carson will feel if he gets another sister? 

[nolongerIFBx]

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I thought in their world it was God’s will, and prayer could sorta catalyst it, as in, if it’s not God’s will, it won’t happen, but if it is, AND you pray, you are making it extra clear to God that you are willing to accept the blessing and accept God’s will, so might as well pray about it to be on the safe side, and then wait to see what God’s will is. 
But Idk how they interpret it. That would be my guess. Lauren and Josiah mentioned in their wedding vows “if God chooses to bless us with children”, so I imagine their prayer for blessings being like “hey, I’m definitely open for baby blessings, if that is your will. If not, that’s cool too, but I’m really hoping.” 

I think that's a very good explanation but I also agree with many here that, especially to children, they only get the "I ask God and He gives me what I want" which is a big disappointment at some point--child or adult. I've really tried to focus my prayers more on things like, "God give me the grace to accept your will whatever it is" or "God please help XX to really feel your love at this time" rather than "Please give me, please heal them, etc." Gets the odd look when someone says, "Pray for XX. His back hurts," and " I respond, "I will pray for some extra patience for him." Ha, ha. But God isn't Santa or a vending machine. I think that what's going to happen is going to happen, for the most part, and prayer is more about helping me deal with the situation than changing the situation.

[JMO]

4 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

My question is why did she randomly take a pregnancy test if she thought she couldn’t get pregnant? Old habits die hard?

I just watched the video.  Her exact quote was "I don't even know why I took it". Considering that this was her 8th pregnancy I do wonder if she had some super early symptom that registered on a sub-conscious level.  

[Dbm]

I saw this picture earlier in July, when Alyssa visited the family. I had strong feeling that Erin is pregnant when I saw it. I know that she have 4 already and the body change but I felt that she was pregnant. 

Spoiler

 

[kmachete14]

@Flossie I was diagnosed with PCOS at age 16 because of high testosterone and frequent periods. My pediatrician literally said right to my face, "Oh, so you'll never have kids!" 

I have one child and got pregnant easily once I was married and decided to stop taking birth control for better health. My current OBGYN was like, you thought you had PCOS this whole time??? 

I can easily see how a teenager would have been misdiagnosed, treated very callously, and then misunderstood the diagnosis. 

Women's healthcare (or teen girls') can be such a joke. It's sad. 

[OyToTheVey]

9 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

@Flossie I was diagnosed with PCOS at age 16 because of high testosterone and frequent periods. My pediatrician literally said right to my face, "Oh, so you'll never have kids!" 

I have one child and got pregnant easily once I was married and decided to stop taking birth control for better health. My current OBGYN was like, you thought you had PCOS this whole time??? 

I can easily see how a teenager would have been misdiagnosed, treated very callously, and then misunderstood the diagnosis. 

Women's healthcare (or teen girls') can be such a joke. It's sad. 

My best friend was told she had PCOS. She thought it would be super difficult to have kids. She got pregnant almost as soon as they started trying. Had a second kid right after that. They thought because she was overweight and had slightly high testosterone she had PCOS. Was misdiagnosed this whole time.

[rebeccawriter01]

6 hours ago, Flossie said:

Maybe Michaela's husband isn't praying enough.  Maybe he's praying to not have kids.  Maybe they're using birth control and don't want to admit it?  

Maybe they should just stop talking about it, and it sounds like that's how it's going now.  I admit that  at least once I have commented on this issue in the past, but if Michaela has said she's uncomfortable with all the speculation, I should stop.  I just hope I can remember these are real people and not characters on some weird TV show and stop talking about it.

But as for Michaela's siblings, what can they do?  Should they stop having children so as not to hurt her feelings?  I'd love it if the siblings kept their broods down to a managable number because they're in a destructive cult, but would we expect the same of all people who have an infertile sibling?  Should they all not have children or keep the numbers low to placate the infertile one?

Sadly, in this cult, the siblings can't let Michaela's feelings inhibit them, and I don't think she'd want them to.  Regardless, the others are propegating as fast as they can.  They've got some social media smarts, so they know to say how this is such a miracle, or a blessing, to put the haters off their backs.  But they've been raised to have as many kids as possible, and that's what they're doing.

Nobody is saying that they shouldn't have children to placate Michaela. There are other reasons they should lay off the breeding wagon but whatever. However, they should (as humans) be cognizant and aware of their words. Maybe Erin spoke to Michaela before announcing she was pregnant. We don't know. However, as a person who has been in Michaela's shoes, I would hope that someone like Erin would be happy but maybe lay off the God answers prayers talk. 

My takeaway on the Bates is that they can be unfathomably cruel people even not taking their horrible beliefs into the equation. 

[Jackie3]

I found that video so strange. If the fertility doctor was so irrelevant to this process, why was he in the story at all?

Here's what I think happened:

Erin's PCP: Hmmm, only a small bit of ovary left. You are going into early menopause.

Erin: What are my chances of getting pregnant again? 

PCP: Very small, almost miniscule. 

Erin: [confused by the word "miniscule" but getting the general jist]: Isn't there anything we can do? Can we see a specialist?

Chad: Honey, we have four beautiful. . . 

PCP: Well, here's the name of someone. She can also help you with your hormone fluctations. You'd better hurry, though, because you will be in menopause soon.

Erin sees specialist, has treatments, gets pregnant.

Erin: Let's make a video and tell the world!

Chad: Should we tell everyone that you did fertility treatments?

Erin: No need! Let's just say it was a miracle! Also, there's that cute story with Carson. .  .

Chad: If we don't, it'll be deceptive and perhaps a discouragement to other women in your situation.

Erin: OK, let's just mention--kinda vaguely--that we went to a fertility doctor, so it won't be a lie. But we won't say anything about the treatments. Because really it was God doing a miracle.

 

 

[CanadianMamam]

I honestly don't think she did fertility treatments because of the expense and Chad's attitude, also I am not even sure Erin would qualify based on her medical history. I have a friend who couldn't do fertility treatments because of her thyroid medications. Plus the timing, etc. I think Erin being naturally very fertile before her surgeries plus horomonal egg dump is a more plausible answer. 

 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

I honestly don't think she did fertility treatments because of the expense and Chad's attitude, also I am not even sure Erin would qualify based on her medical history. I have a friend who couldn't do fertility treatments because of her thyroid medications. Plus the timing, etc. I think Erin being naturally very fertile before her surgeries plus horomonal egg dump is a more plausible answer. 

 

I would be surprised if they did fertility treatments of any kind. I don't know their insurance situation, but both Erin and Chad are self-employed. I have insurance through a government job (one of the best policies out there) and it doesn't pay for any of that. Two bouts of COVID and three surgeries...that's enough to wipe most of us out with low level or no health insurance. 

Chad might be fuming on the inside, but he seems to give her everything she demands. He is never seen saying no to her. 

[Bobology]

Clomid/clomiphene used to be quite inexpensive, maybe it still is. Could it have been prescribed to help her 1/3 ovary pop out another egg?

Edit to add: and they could be playing loose with the term "treatment" and pretend that an Rx is not actually a treatment.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Bobology

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Bobology said:

Clomid/clomiphene used to be quite inexpensive, maybe it still is. Could it have been prescribed to help her 1/3 ovary pop out another egg?

Edit to add: and they could be playing loose with the term "treatment" and pretend that an Rx is not actually a treatment.

Clomid is one of the few things I figured fundies would try. If you aren’t ovulating, then going on clomid is just helping to Fix a medical problem. 

[Bobology]

I hate all y'all. I had to watch the video. This statement by Erin, referring to Carson, stood out the most to me: "I want him to have a little sibling if that's what he wants." She actually said that. Because he doesn't have 3 little siblings already.

[AussieKrissy]

after all her ovary problems if it was me I would be very reluctant to put anything in my system that would stimulate my ovaries and or over stimulate them.... Not sure how exactly clomid works but I would assume some kind of hormonal stimulant

[JMO]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

after all her ovary problems if it was me I would be very reluctant to put anything in my system that would stimulate my ovaries and or over stimulate them.... Not sure how exactly clomid works but I would assume some kind of hormonal stimulant

As someone who took clomid, she would probably be denied because of her history. It can definitely over stimulate your ovaries.  I do think that this was completely random.  My friend went into early menopause,  discovered while trying for her first. Her first visit to the fertility specialist they discovered that she was already pregnant.  Highly unlikely but it can happen.  

[CanadianMamam]

Michaela shared Erin's story and was far more gracious than I would be. Her heart must be aching and wondering when she will get her own miracle. 

[justmy2cents]

52 minutes ago, JMO said:

As someone who took clomid, she would probably be denied because of her history. It can definitely over stimulate your ovaries.  I do think that this was completely random. 

I agree with this.  We have to remember that even though she may be close to menopause due to a very diminished ovarian reserve, she's still just 30.  Most of her eggs are still good compared to women close to 50, who may not have any good eggs left approaching menopause.  It was a long shot but if she ovulates then those eggs are most likely good quality and she can still get pregnant, which she did.  

[AussieKrissy]

19 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

I agree with this.  We have to remember that even though she may be close to menopause due to a very diminished ovarian reserve, she's still just 30.  Most of her eggs are still good compared to women close to 50, who may not have any good eggs left approaching menopause.  It was a long shot but if she ovulates then those eggs are most likely good quality and she can still get pregnant, which she did.  

Lord help us I can even see more miracle babies coming. Because you are right there is nothing wrong with her eggs she just does not have many left. 

Will she need any hormonal support during this pregnancy to help maintain it due to being close to the onset of menopause? I vaguely remember reading about Grandmother surrogates carrying babies for their daughters after they had been through menopause, needing help to maintain or was it get pregnant because of menopause.?Or will Erin's body just kick back in and carry this baby like the menopause issue never happened.

I hope all that waffle made sense...soz

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Two bouts of COVID and three surgeries...that's enough to wipe most of us out with low level or no health insurance. 

I  may be wrong, but I'll bet you don't have a reality TV show or an instagram where you monetize photos of your cute little children.