Erin & Chad 7: Reckless Behavior in a Pandemic Has Consequences

[BeccaGrim]

On this subject, we know that Erin and Tori have the same issue as Erin.  They are getting those shots during pregnancies too. And I think that Josie said when she announced Hazel's pregnancy that they were seeing a high risk OB this time? Does anyone else remember this?  

[quiversR4hunting]

17 minutes ago, BeccaGrim said:

On this subject, we know that Erin and Tori have the same issue as Erin.  They are getting those shots during pregnancies too. And I think that Josie said when she announced Hazel's pregnancy that they were seeing a high risk OB this time? Does anyone else remember this?  

Can you clarify what I put in blue? Are you saying 2 of the younger sisters have the same issue one of the older siblings? 

Anybody know the odds of this type of issue in the general population? (for example I know 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. -mayoclinic)

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Can you clarify what I put in blue? Are you saying 2 of the younger sisters have the same issue one of the older siblings? 

Anybody know the odds of this type of issue in the general population? (for example I know 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. -mayoclinic)

I think she meant Carlin and Tori have the same clotting problem, which they do. 

Lauren Duggar (Josiah's wife) also has this problem. 

[BeccaGrim]

Sorry, yes, that should have said Carlin and Tori have the same clotting issue as Erin and needs to have shots during her pregnancy to not lose the baby.  Tori didn't find out until the second pregnancy.  

[nelliebelle1197]

On 4/7/2021 at 3:50 PM, SassyPants said:

It’s this kind of double speak that gives some the label of hypocrite. You do have to give Michaela and Brandon some credit. Some in their situation would already be building an arsenal of kids via adoption.

Gothardism and IBLP, in which they are steeped, looks askance at adoption. I doubt it is to their credit but rather a product of their upbringing that they have not adopted. I know they are saying publicly using rather cagey language that they leave the option open, but I don't see it happening unless IBLP changes its stance.

[Expectopatronus]

18 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Exactly. Erin cannot safely hold a pregnancy, no matter if it is natural or IVF. In addition, IVF mothers need a lot of hormones, it's not always safe for the women's health and I very much doubt a woman with Erin's health issues can succesfully undergo a treatment like that.

IVF is hard. It's very hard for the eggs donor and very hard for the woman who tries to get pregnant. Emotionally (because the hormones and because not always succesful) and physically painful, and as I said before, it's not always safe for the health. I have the feeling some people think it's easy, like an insemination, but it's far more complicated.

Erin has never talked about adoption. She has 4 kids, is not well-off and is recovering from a extreme hard year. I don't understand why there are so many comments about her adopting. 

Thank you for saying this!!! Embryo adoption is hard! I lost the first transfer and that was devastating. That baby was so wanted and so loved. There are huge risks involved. Risks from the hormone shots, pills and gels and emotional risks because I don’t think it’s possible to pay the $10 000, be matched with an embryo, go through painful scans, injections etc and not become attached to the itty bitty life. My second attempt was success and my 16 month old is asleep in my lap as I am writing this. It is 100% worth the pain but only if the parents have the resources to cope with anxiety and, potentially, grief. I worked with a therapist after losing my first but I’m not sure IBLP supports this method of coping. 

[indianabones]

4 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Are you saying 2 of the younger sisters have the same issue one of the older siblings? 

They all have PAI (Plasminogen Activator Inhibitor Type 1 Deficiency). It's considered a fairly rare disorder.

[AussieKrissy]

27 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

Thank you for saying this!!! Embryo adoption is hard! I lost the first transfer and that was devastating. That baby was so wanted and so loved. There are huge risks involved. Risks from the hormone shots, pills and gels and emotional risks because I don’t think it’s possible to pay the $10 000, be matched with an embryo, go through painful scans, injections etc and not become attached to the itty bitty life. My second attempt was success and my 16 month old is asleep in my lap as I am writing this. It is 100% worth the pain but only if the parents have the resources to cope with anxiety and, potentially, grief. I worked with a therapist after losing my first but I’m not sure IBLP supports this method of coping. 

nawww Even though there is pain, i loved reading your happy ending. all the happy ending blessings to you. How Lovely. 

[llucie]

4 hours ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Can you clarify what I put in blue? Are you saying 2 of the younger sisters have the same issue one of the older siblings? 

Anybody know the odds of this type of issue in the general population? (for example I know 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. -mayoclinic)

All the sisters who have kids except for Alyssa have the clotting dissorder. Erin and Carlin have been more upfront about it that Tori and Josie though. We only know about Josie having it because she leaked her pregnancy journal.

[quiversR4hunting]

4 minutes ago, llucie said:

All the sisters who have kids except for Alyssa have the clotting dissorder. Erin and Carlin have been more upfront about it that Tori and Josie though. We only know about Josie having it because she leaked her pregnancy journal.

But Alyssa has a heart issue which brings in different risks to her well being. Wow. It seems like this family would be a geneticist dream to study. 

Edit to say I know Alyssa has had surgery to correct the heart issue but as a mom with a daughter born with 2 holes in her heart that closed on their own, the worry that something might be an issue in the future with my daughter's heart is in the back of my head. I would guess that worry might be in the back of Alyssa and John's head too. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by quiversR4hunting
See edit

[nelliebelle1197]

11 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

But Alyssa has a heart issue which brings in different risks to her well being. Wow. It seems like this family would be a geneticist dream to study. 

Edit to say I know Alyssa has had surgery to correct the heart issue but as a mom with a daughter born with 2 holes in her heart that closed on their own, the worry that something might be an issue in the future with my daughter's heart is in the back of my head. I would guess that worry might be in the back of Alyssa and John's head too. 

I don’t know a lot about Alyssa’s issue- do you happen to know if it is genetic?

[quiversR4hunting]

33 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I don’t know a lot about Alyssa’s issue- do you happen to know if it is genetic?

I don't know. Here is what mayo says about it in general: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/supraventricular-tachycardia/symptoms-causes/syc-20355243

And when I Google it and added the word genetic I came up with this result. https://www.saintlukeskc.org/health-library/supraventricular-tachycardia#:~:text=Some types of SVT run,lifestyle habits or medical problems.

After a quick scan of that article, unless Alyssa says we won't know why she has it. 

[irish_dancing_canadian]

With Katie engaged and likely to be married soon, makes me wonder if she has the clotting problem too. Hopefully not but I think at this point all the Bates girls should get tested for it. 

[llucie]

5 hours ago, irish_dancing_canadian said:

With Katie engaged and likely to be married soon, makes me wonder if she has the clotting problem too. Hopefully not but I think at this point all the Bates girls should get tested for it. 

In the old blog Kelly had said all the girls were getting tested for it, this was years ago. But maybe they never got around to it.

Edited April 9, 2021 by llucie
spelling

[nelliebelle1197]

39 minutes ago, llucie said:

In the old blog Kelly had said all the girls were getting tested for it, this was years ago. But maybe they never got around to it.

The Batesesssessssesseees never get around to a lot of things.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

52 minutes ago, llucie said:

In the old blog Kelly had said all the girls were getting tested for it, this was years ago. But maybe they never got around to it.

Well to be fair, it seems weird to test little girls for a condition that seems to only affects pregnant women. I doubt I would get an underage daughter tested. Among other reasons, if I have a daughter/s, I would hope to raise them to be more than just future babymakers. Of course, I'm aware the Bates don't share my values.

[Melissa1977]

12 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well to be fair, it seems weird to test little girls for a condition that seems to only affects pregnant women. I doubt I would get an underage daughter tested. Among other reasons, if I have a daughter/s, I would hope to raise them to be more than just future babymakers. Of course, I'm aware the Bates don't share my values.

Clotting disorders can be a problem with some medecines and medical treatments, not only in pregnancies. I would prefer to have all my children tested, just in case.

 

[Mimosa]

28 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Well to be fair, it seems weird to test little girls for a condition that seems to only affects pregnant women. I doubt I would get an underage daughter tested. Among other reasons, if I have a daughter/s, I would hope to raise them to be more than just future babymakers. Of course, I'm aware the Bates don't share my values.

One can have children, and even have that as part of their life plan and still be more than “a future baby maker.” 
 

If I had a sister that had a known issue with pregnancy that might affect me, I probably would have gotten tested at the time, regardless of my age because I knew I one day wanted to be a mother. Still managed to get 3 degrees, so I’d say I’m more than a “future baby maker.”

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

38 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Clotting disorders can be a problem with some medecines and medical treatments, not only in pregnancies. I would prefer to have all my children tested, just in case.

Yes, it's true clotting disorders can affect many things and people. However the genetic one in the Bates family seems to only affect pregnant women. I haven't heard that the Bates are concerned about their sons having the condition, which suggests it only affects women while pregnant. 

25 minutes ago, Mimosa said:

One can have children, and even have that as part of their life plan and still be more than “a future baby maker.” 

If I had a sister that had a known issue with pregnancy that might affect me, I probably would have gotten tested at the time, regardless of my age because I knew I one day wanted to be a mother. Still managed to get 3 degrees, so I’d say I’m more than a “future baby maker.”

I'm aware that one can have children and be more than a future baby maker. 

Saying that you would make the decision to get tested suggests that you would at least be an adult to make your own medical decisions. Or maybe you think everyone including minors, should decide whether to be tested or not.  Some people would rather put it off and not worry about that now.

In any case, you bring up a good point. I hope the girls get some say in whether or not they're tested.  As I said, I'm not sure every little girl would want to be tested.

[BeccaGrim]

16 hours ago, llucie said:

All the sisters who have kids except for Alyssa have the clotting dissorder. Erin and Carlin have been more upfront about it that Tori and Josie though. We only know about Josie having it because she leaked her pregnancy journal.

Where did she leak her pregnancy journal? 

[quiversR4hunting]

17 hours ago, indianabones said:

They all have PAI (Plasminogen Activator Inhibitor Type 1 Deficiency). It's considered a fairly rare disorder.

Thank you for the name. I just noticed in an article that Carlin says she has the same two clotting issues as her sister Erin. https://people.com/parents/bringing-up-bates-carlin-bates-pregnant-expecting-first-child-exclusive/

@Bluebirdbluebell the blood clotting disorder Indanabones states is not only for pregnancy. My guess is these girls have always had to remain "lady like" and never had significant injury with blood. 

Quote

Individuals with complete PAI-1 deficiency may experience prolonged nosebleeds, excessive bleeding after medical or dental procedures, easy bruising, and significant bleeding into the joints or soft tissues after even a minor injury. Internal bleeding after an injury, especially bleeding around the brain (intracranial hemorrhage), can be life-threatening. Affected females may have excessive bleeding associated with menstruation (menorrhagia) and abnormal bleeding in pregnancy and childbirth.

In addition to bleeding problems, some people with complete PAI-1 deficiency develop scar tissue in the heart (cardiac fibrosis), which can lead to heart failure.

Source: https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/complete-plasminogen-activator-inhibitor-1-deficiency/ 

Edited April 9, 2021 by quiversR4hunting
added source for info in the quote box.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

@quiversR4hunting Thank you for clarifying that. Does this mean the boys could have the disorder too?

[quiversR4hunting]

It just dawned on me, the last line of my quote above "In addition to bleeding problems, some people with complete PAI-1 deficiency develop scar tissue in the heart (cardiac fibrosis), which can lead to heart failure." I wonder if Alyssa has been tested for PAI-1 especially since she already has a history of heart issues. 

Yet again, FJers seem more concerned for all these ladies health with pregnancies than the family.  

[OHFL2009]

3 minutes ago, BeccaGrim said:

Where did she leak her pregnancy journal? 

She was showing the journal in an Instagram story and she flipped through the pages quickly. Someone (I think it may have been on Reddit?) recorded the story and then went frame by frame to try and read what was written. There was a reference to it being a girl and the name Hazel; this was before Josie announced the sex or the name. 

[quiversR4hunting]

1 minute ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

@quiversR4hunting Thank you for clarifying that. Does this mean the boys could have the disorder too?

from that source, yes. it says:

Quote

Complete PAI-1 deficiency is inherited equally by both sexes, but tends to be diagnosed earlier and more frequently in females because of its effects on menstruation, pregnancy, and childbirth.

I am not a medical person at all, far from it. I am a business analyst so I am accumulator of all knowledge and curious So I am just quoting the source. 

This was interesting in that article:

Quote

Complete PAI-1 deficiency is a rare disorder; its prevalence is unknown. It has been well studied in a large family belonging to the Old Order Amish population of eastern and southern Indiana. Additional cases in North America, Europe, and Asia have been described in the medical literature.