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Jesus and John Wayne and Changes in Evangelicalism


theotherelise

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2 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Here is another list of Nate Wilson's books. He writes under the name N. D. Wilson.  If he's anything like his father, I would be careful about buying the books. 

He could be living in Malibu or Manhattan, he boasts, but he and his doomed children choose Moscow, ID.  My point is: he’s already richer than Croesus. Please everybody, check his books out from your library. Don’t buy them and make him any richer. Just MHO, of course, you do what you want. Buyer’s autonomy! :) 

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21 hours ago, shesinsane said:

See also: when the reader said "Doug Phillips" and I automatically responded "is a tool." 

Sometimes when I’m reading something that isn’t remotely related to Doug Phillips(is a tool)and come across the word “tool,” I immediately think of Doug Phillips. Who is a tool.

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Back to Beth Allison Barr, she's written a post titled Hope for Evangelicalism on her Patheos blog. In January 2021, she visited the ghost town of Terlingua, TX,  which rose from it's failed mining past in the 1940s to catering to adventure tourists today, while reading a book titled A Church Called TOV: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing

Beautiful concept, but I'm cynical that this new type of church can arise out of evangelicalism as it currently exists. 

Anyway, I was disappointed that she gave a shout out to Big Bend National Park but didn't comment on Big Bend Ranch State Park, closer to Terlingua, that is close in size to the state of Rhode Island. 

This area is not easy to get to and it's not on the way to anywhere else, but it's astoundingly beautiful and the geology is amazing.  It's also brain-fry hot in the summer; early spring, fall, winter (October to April) are great. 

Edited by Howl
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  • 1 month later...
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  • Coconut Flan changed the title to Jesus and John Wayne and Changes in Evangelicalism

Thanks for the title change.  I keep coming across information related to changes in evangelical culture, both in politics and the influence of QAnon, that doesn't quite fit in the Political section and didn't have a place to put it. 

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Here is another very difficult read, Part I of a three part investigation into the prevalence of corporal punishment among evangelical Christians:

Quote

This is the first of a three-part series devoted to corporal punishment in evangelical Christian households. Today’s piece focuses on views of corporal punishment in evangelical culture, its historical background, the doctrine of demanding absolute obedience from children, and its effects. Part 2 is about the effects of childhood corporal punishment on romantic relationships, and Part 3 will discuss breaking the cycle of abuse in parenting. The content of this series may be disturbing to many, as it will contain graphic descriptions of child abuse and its consequences.

 

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article in The Atlantic, which is behind a paywall for me, I've used up my free articles. You may be able to read it if you haven't read previous Atlantic articles.  Basically, right wing elements are breaking congregations apart. 

The Evangelical Church is Breaking Apart

Substantial synopsis: 

Spoiler

"Influential figures such as the theologian Russell Moore and the Bible teacher Beth Moore felt compelled to leave the Southern Baptist Convention; both were targeted by right-wing elements within the SBC. 'The Christian Post,' an online evangelical newspaper, published an op-ed by one of its contributors criticizing religious conservatives like Platt, Russell Moore, Beth Moore, and Ed Stetzer, the executive director of the Wheaton College Billy Graham Center, as 'progressive Christian figures' who 'commonly champion leftist ideology.' In a matter of months, four pastors resigned from Bethlehem Baptist Church, a flagship church in Minneapolis. One of those pastors, Bryan Pickering, cited mistreatment by elders, domineering leadership, bullying, and 'spiritual abuse and a toxic culture,'" Pete Wehner reports. "Political conflicts are hardly the whole reason for the turmoil, but according to news accounts, they played a significant role, particularly on matters having to do with race."

"'Nearly everyone tells me there is at the very least a small group in nearly every evangelical church complaining and agitating against teaching or policies that aren’t sufficiently conservative or anti-woke,' a pastor and prominent figure within the evangelical world told me. (Like others with whom I spoke about this topic, he requested anonymity in order to speak candidly.) 'It’s everywhere.'"

 

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45 minutes ago, Howl said:

article in The Atlantic, which is behind a paywall for me, I've used up my free articles. You may be able to read it if you haven't read previous Atlantic articles.  Basically, right wing elements are breaking congregations apart. 

 

I think - Du Mez aside - the interlocutors in the article are kidding themselves if they think it's merely the intrusion of politics. It isn't, it's the outflowing of the culture of Evangelicalism as dominated by the SBC.

The author was speechwriter to Reagan and the two Bushes, so he has an incentive to assume that the craziness starts and ends with Trump.
 

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4 hours ago, stylites said:

It isn't, it's the outflowing of the culture of Evangelicalism as dominated by the SBC.

ITA. As they say, the complete enmeshment of politics in fundamentalist Christianity is a feature, not a bug, in all of these churches. White evangelical Christianity has been building towards this for decades, starting especially with Ronald Reagan. 

Reagan & his handlers got in bed with fundies at the earliest opportunity because they saw them as stupid & gullible but also as useful tools to achieve their own ends. That worked for a long time. Now, of course, with articles like this one, we're seeing the sobbing woman of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party whining in The Atlantic and elsewhere.

1363419468_LeopardsEatingFaces.thumb.png.cb14bc6349656271879e3f7d7b300218.png

Edited by hoipolloi
Fixed typo
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23 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

[snip]

Now, of course, with articles like this one, we're seeing the sobbing woman of the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party whining in The Atlantic and elsewhere.

1363419468_LeopardsEatingFaces.thumb.png.cb14bc6349656271879e3f7d7b300218.png

Fun(?) fact: Bott's tweet was inspired by Brexit, but 6 years later is still incredibly useful. It works for Trump voters with loved ones deported by the Trump administration, people on welfare who vote for the incumbent without realizing their politician is intent on reducing their benefits, and of course, people who complain COVID's not that bad just before they're intubated. 
There's a even a "COVID ate my face" subreddit devoted to anti-vaxxers/COVID-is-a-hoaxers dead from COVID. 

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On 10/31/2021 at 7:54 AM, stylites said:

It isn't, it's the outflowing of the culture of Evangelicalism as dominated by the SBC.

I came across this article on Deseret News, a news site with Mormon focus, about Biblical Citizenship.  Biblical Citizenship is unadulterated Christian Nationalism with the aim of taking over the country, because the Founding Fathers were all Christian, you know, and it's what they wanted. 

This is a series of classes for teaching indoctrinating people to become activists and take over government.  

What is biblical citizenship?  A new term is gaining traction in Christian circles and churches in America: biblical citizenship. What does it mean and how do adherents want to reshape the country?

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  • 2 weeks later...

A local TV station in western MI has done a great deep dive (20 minutes' worth) into the cultural-political-religious splits in evangelical churches.

Du Mez is interviewed but there is a lot more -- it's worth your time.

Quote

 

Amy Wigger believes God already decided how many days we have on this earth.

But she also believes in science and protecting the most vulnerable among us.

“I do believe that’s what Jesus commanded us to do: Love God. Love others. Take care of the weakest among us,” she said.

It’s a perspective she says she told to her children’s Christian school when administrators decided against any self-imposed mask mandate prior to the term’s start.

“They didn’t want to upset the majority. I did point out that if they were to be an inclusive school that their job was to protect the least among them. That’s part of being the body of Christ,” recalled Wigger, choking back tears.

 

 

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21 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

A local TV station in western MI has done a great deep dive (20 minutes' worth) into the cultural-political-religious splits in evangelical churches.

Du Mez is interviewed but there is a lot more -- it's worth your time.

 

Will watch this evening!! Many thanks. 

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I'm sick to death of the fundies and their white nationalism. Where the fuck is that in the bible? Do they really think Jesus was blonde/blue? Jesus was a homeless itinerant preacher who looked like any middle easterner of the time. These days that's labeled as "a Muslim". Nope, Jews look middle-eastern, especially 2 millenia ago. 

Their "faith" seems punitive, God plays favorites, and they are the elite. They have issues with biblical interpretation. As much as they claim to get most of their theology from the Paul, they tend to overlook things like this "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."(Galatians 3:28 NIV). As a Christian, I cannot reconcile  the faith I know and the Bible I read with the hateful attitudes of fundies. Yes, my faith informs my political stands. My faith says things like "this is true religion, caring for widows and orphans in their need" (James 1:27), "when I was hungry, you fed me, when I was thirsty you gave me to drink, when I was naked you clothed me, when I was homeless, you sheltered me...(Matthew 25:31-46). 

As I've often said, these fundies would not know Jesus if He stood in front of them. 

some of the bible quotations are from memory, may not be exact. 

No wonder people are running away from "the church", many mainstream religions have lost their damn minds. Catholic, various flavors of Baptist, Methodist, IFB, non-denominationals are all turning into islands of white people ONLY. YUK. 

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19 hours ago, feministxtian said:

As I've often said, these fundies would not know Jesus if He stood in front of them. 

And they would happily deport Him or crucify Him all over again.

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Mansplaining! Gah!  Twitter thread unrolled HERE.  <snip> "It just felt icky to read a complete stranger telling brilliant women their own hearts and minds, while also wanting the benefit of the doubt that THEY misunderstood him."

 

 

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On 11/23/2021 at 12:06 PM, Howl said:

Mansplaining! Gah!  Twitter thread unrolled HERE.  <snip> "It just felt icky to read a complete stranger telling brilliant women their own hearts and minds, while also wanting the benefit of the doubt that THEY misunderstood him.

 

Reading the Leeman/Du Mez thread on twitter is a good way of generating mild fury (link and read up):

That said, it confirms my opinion that Leeman is largely reacting against criticism that he fails to understand.

 

 

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1 hour ago, stylites said:

That said, it confirms my opinion that Leeman is largely reacting against criticism that he fails to understand.

And he's also a fundie white man who's Big Mad. 

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1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

And he's also a fundie white man who's Big Mad. 

Oh yeah, the mistake was teaching all those - frankly uppity - women to read:

Quote

Suppose, for instance, you’re counseling a married couple in which you conclude the man has been emotionally abusive with his wife. Meanwhile, she has been reading feminist literature which has convinced her that her marital problems root in her husband’s and your position on complementarianism. Therefore, she doesn’t trust you. In response, you want to scold him and comfort her. But you also want to warn her that her new-found feminism won’t afford the protection and justice and love she’s looking for. It’s a medicine that will provide short-term relief and long-term sickness. Your task, somehow, is to both confront him and point her to a different medicine. Doing the latter especially isn’t easy, since the abuse she’s experienced and the literature she’s reading conspire perfectly to burn down any bridge of trust between you and her. The slightest word of correction will be interpreted as “taking his side,” even if you stand with her 100 percent against his greater sin.

From : https://www.9marks.org/article/editors-note-defending-sound-doctrine-against-the-deconstruction-of-american-evangelicalism/

 

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But you also want to warn her that her new-found feminism won’t afford the protection and justice and love she’s looking for. It’s a medicine that will provide short-term relief and long-term sickness. 

Oh FFS. 

And double, triple, quadruple FFS.  She's figured out the inherently toxic nature of complementarianism and patriarchy.  End of story. 

Quote

Your task, somehow, is to both confront him and point her to a different medicine. Doing the latter especially isn’t easy, since the abuse she’s experienced and the literature she’s reading conspire perfectly to burn down any bridge of trust between you and her. 

 

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Here's a great clap back at the CBMW from Michael Bird:

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Here’s my gripe with Leeman and Shenvi, they think that culture is something that happens to other people, and they are shaped by the Bible alone. Yet du Mez and Barr point out, no, American Evangelicalism is saturated in culture, driven by culture, and even blinded by culture.

Read his whole piece. It's excellent.

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