Maxwell 46: Relegating the Kids' Table to the Vestibule

[catlady]

15 hours ago, SPHASH said:

Remember this gem by Teri regarding teenagers?

https://articles.titus2.com/are-you-preparing-your-sons

So many of the youth of today are hopeless. They don’t know Jesus Christ, and they have no purpose. Their lives are sadly out of control. Many are on anti-depressants. They have nothing worth living for, and they become overwhelmed with the emptiness of their lives.

 

This makes me ragey because it’s such a heavy generalization.  While there are kids that fall into this category in some capacity (yes, Teri, even kids who “know Jesus” lead vacuous lives—I went to high school with several), the asshat Maxwells have so little interest in the families of their community that they have no idea that a great many are as productive as the posters here were in their youth.  I too had a job at 16, participated in extracurriculars, had a small group of nice friends, refrained from alcohol and drugs, was in the National Honor Society, and believed in God.  My sister’s kids were in high school less than a decade ago, and most of the kids in their school were and still are productive and well-adjusted.

Fuck off, Teri.  Go outside and meet people. Talk to your neighbors (about things other than religion). Get to know their families and learn a thing or two about your own community.  You won’t, though, because you can’t handle knowing that Steve lied to you all of your adult life and that you bought all of those lies; you don’t want to admit how wrong you both have been.

[HeartsAFundie]

On 3/15/2021 at 10:16 PM, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

What does finna mean? This is not a thing that I know of in my region.

I think it means "fixing to" as in "I'm fixing to go to the football game".  You would say "I'm finna go to the football game".  

And speaking of, "lil" for little goes up me like fingernails on a chalkboard.  

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by HeartsAFundie

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 hours ago, catlady said:

Fuck off, Teri.  Go outside and meet people. Talk to your neighbors (about things other than religion). Get to know their families and learn a thing or two about your own community.  You won’t, though, because you can’t handle knowing that Steve lied to you all of your adult life and that you bought all of those lies; you don’t want to admit how wrong you both have been.

I wish I could upvote your post 1000x.  

She knows how wrong they are.  Just like I'm sure she knows how they have crippled their children emotionally, socially, mentally....she just doesn't seem to care.  She is the queen of the path of least resistance.

If there is an afterlife I hope she and Steve have to answer for what they've done to their children.

[Jana814]

6 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

I hope she and Steve have to answer for what they've done to their children.

I hope you are right. Yet they feel they did nothing wrong. They shame people for not raising their children the same way they did. 

[Black Aliss]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:46 AM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You guys are making me feel guilty for being so shallow and lazy at 16.

I promise you life kicked my ass later, but damn....some of you guys were awesome teenagers.

Or, if we wanted to not have to alternate between the two dresses we were allowed for school or if we wanted any spending money at all. From age 14-16 I basically worked 40 hours a week babysitting a toddler while her mother worked the 3-11 shift at the local hospital. At 16 I was waiting tables. Prior to retiring at age 68 the only time I have NOT worked was when I was a SAHM for ~ 4 years, and when I was at university and raising two children--there just wasn't time, although I could have used the money. Oh, and the 3 months I was on medical leave after getting injured in a head on car wreck.

Oh, and @HerNameIsBuffy don't feel guilty! I made sure my kids didn't feel the need to work when they were teens. I wanted them to focus on school and sports in high school and by then I had the means to make part-time jobs unecessary.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Black Aliss

[HereticHick]

5 hours ago, catlady said:

 (yes, Teri, even kids who “know Jesus” lead vacuous lives—I went to high school with several)

And guess what Teri, even kids who "know Jesus"  and regularly go to Baptist Church can become racist misogynist young adults who murder multiple women in Georgia. Stick that in your holier-than-thou pipe and smoke it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, HereticHick said:

And guess what Teri, even kids who "know Jesus"  and regularly go to Baptist Church can become racist misogynist young adults who murder multiple women in Georgia. Stick that in your holier-than-thou pipe and smoke it.

That's where they think they have an out.  Their definition is so specific it excludes anyone outside the Maxwell compound.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

So in a year or so we'll know the "full" story of how Mary learned data entry in Quick books. Wow. Quite the career.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Unpopular opinion: The Maxwell sons seem to be flourishing. They all have jobs, wives, etc. Most of them have houses, children, etc. Jesse is the outlier so far and he seems happy. 

The daughters live-at-home. They seem to have some kind of work. They claim they like to live at home, but that seems to be brain-washing. Other than the facts that they're living at home and single, there's not much we can say about them that isn't going well. 

If the goals posts for doing better are moving away from their upbringing or finding their own identities, etc., then millions of right-wing Christians are the same thing, and they're not necessarily fundies either. I'm thinking of people I know in real life when I say that. 

[nokidsmom]

6 hours ago, catlady said:

This makes me ragey because it’s such a heavy generalization.  While there are kids that fall into this category in some capacity (yes, Teri, even kids who “know Jesus” lead vacuous lives—I went to high school with several), the asshat Maxwells have so little interest in the families of their community that they have no idea that a great many are as productive as the posters here were in their youth.

Honestly, for people who have lived a pretty long time in their community, it seems they have positively no clue about their neighbor's lives, not even by simple observation, much less talking to them.

I mean, how tough is it to look out the window, and see neighbors coming and going, their kids getting on the school bus, working outside (maybe even Mr. Smith's teenage son mowing the lawn instead of his Dad!) the typical activities that go on?   After all this time in their community, they honestly think nobody else does anything worthwhile or is productive?

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

She knows how wrong they are.  Just like I'm sure she knows how they have crippled their children emotionally, socially, mentally....she just doesn't seem to care.  She is the queen of the path of least resistance.

ITA, I think on some level she knows she messed up her kids and I think that comments about today's youth living "empty lives" is her way of rationalizing what she did with own kids.   

[kmachete14]

Most teenagers these days have ZERO empty time. Their schedule is like: 

- Wake up at 5:45 to get ready for school & commute

- 7:30 school starts 

- 2:30-5:30 school sports/drama/music/clubs

- 5:30-6 eat dinner

- 6-8pm babysit/work part time/ volunteer 

- 8pm-12pm homework/studying

- 12pm/1pm sleep

And on the weekend they are helping/hanging out with family, hanging out with friends, part-time job, more school activities. 

Volunteering, being part of a team, and nurturing family/social relationships leave most teenagers feeling very fulfilled. Not to mention they are working towards their goals (college, career, sports, own business, etc) which is also very fulfilling. Even people who are planning on being stay at home moms (Ahem, Lori & Teri who love to think these girls are so oppressed) are doing these activities! 

Edited March 18, 2021 by kmachete14

[nokidsmom]

6 hours ago, catlady said:

While there are kids that fall into this category in some capacity (yes, Teri, even kids who “know Jesus” lead vacuous lives—I went to high school with several),

Knew several like this in high school but IME, the place where I ran into a LOT of kids like this was the conservative Christian college I went to.   My high school acquaintances were more on the ball in comparison. 

[Black Aliss]

2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

And guess what Teri, even kids who "know Jesus"  and regularly go to Baptist Church can become racist misogynist young adults who murder multiple women in Georgia. Stick that in your holier-than-thou pipe and smoke it.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Hane]

Gee, Teri, some of the worst depression of my life was when I was a devout, churchgoing teenager. I was the kid who used to go to crack-of-dawn Mass at 7 AM on my own on Sundays so I could go home and spend the rest of the day studying. (I was an academic grind.) Spiritual life doesn’t cure depression. 

[Jana814]

I don’t think Teri ever got to deal with her depression. Steve is an ass & he probably told her to pray. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:59 AM, freejugar said:

I don't get how homeschooling works in the USA, why would you need a lawyer?

In the USA, hardly anything pertaining to education is controlled by the federal government. The states have a lot of leeway to decide on various educational practices and policies, including homeschooling.

Back in the 1980s and early 1990s (when many fundie families like the Maxwells and the Duggars started homeschooling), almost all of the states had stricter homeschooling laws than they do now. For example, in some states, the parents had to have a college degree in order to homeschool. Other states had various testing or paperwork requirements. Also, since homeschooling was way outside the mainstream back then, neighbors would get suspicious when they noticed that these people's kids weren't in school and they would report them to child protective services. But homeschooling is so common in the USA now that much of what the HSLDA did 30 years ago is no longer relevant. Parents aren't taken to court anymore just because their kids are homeschooled. If a family is taken to court in this day and age, there is some other reason for it, probably because of abuse or neglect. But as we've seen with the various fundie families we discuss here at Free Jinger, the government pretty much lets these people raise their kids as they please and they rarely intervene, except in extreme cases like the Turpin family.

[Melissa1977]

11 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

Most teenagers these days have ZERO empty time. Their schedule is like: 

- Wake up at 5:45 to get ready for school & commute

- 7:30 school starts 

- 2:30-5:30 school sports/drama/music/clubs

- 5:30-6 eat dinner

- 6-8pm babysit/work part time/ volunteer 

- 8pm-12pm homework/studying

- 12pm/1pm sleep

I suppose you are exaggerating. I find this schedule absolutely scaring. Teenagers need rest. Sleep less than 6 hours in a daily basis? Brain doesn't work fine in those conditions amd it leads to physical and mental issues. And, with the exception of professional sport players, I don't know any teenager that has 3 hours of extracurricular activities in a daily basis, neither teenagers than do extracurricular plus work/volunteer plus homework on the same day. 

In fact, the schedule is very Maxwellian. No free time. Day full of duties. No time to think, no time for being alone. For my teenager child, it would be a nightmare for sure.

[ScorpiousMalfoy]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

I suppose you are exaggerating. I find this schedule absolutely scaring. Teenagers need rest. Sleep less than 6 hours in a daily basis? Brain doesn't work fine in those conditions amd it leads to physical and mental issues. And, with the exception of professional sport players, I don't know any teenager that has 3 hours of extracurricular activities in a daily basis, neither teenagers than do extracurricular plus work/volunteer plus homework on the same day. 

In fact, the schedule is very Maxwellian. No free time. Day full of duties. No time to think, no time for being alone. For my teenager child, it would be a nightmare for sure.

I feel the same. Maybe it's different in the USA, but my schedule did not look like that at all, I had a lot more of free time. And for sure I did not have to study four hours every day.

[Nothing if not critical]

2 hours ago, ScorpiousMalfoy said:

I feel the same. Maybe it's different in the USA, but my schedule did not look like that at all, I had a lot more of free time. And for sure I did not have to study four hours every day.

Another lazy European here. I spent whole afternoons reading as a teen and got my first job at 17, during summer vacations. Same with my kids. They each play an instrument, and before COVID we tried to fit some sort of sports into their schedule, but otherwise it's "just" school and hanging out with or without their friends.
Mind you, school keeps them pretty busy - on an average (pre-COVID) day, they come home at maybe three or four in the afternoon and then are looking at another two to three hours of homework. And they do various activities (drama, debating, gardening) as clubs at school, so if I listed them all, it would look busier. But I'm a firm believer in having time to hang out and get bored as a teen. 
ETA: If my kids were up studying till midnight, I wouldn't allow them to have a job. School comes first, as does enough sleep.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Nothing if not critical

[lexiloumarie]

5 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

In the USA, hardly anything pertaining to education is controlled by the federal government. The states have a lot of leeway to decide on various educational practices and policies, including homeschooling.

Back in the 1980s and early 1990s (when many fundie families like the Maxwells and the Duggars started homeschooling), almost all of the states had stricter homeschooling laws than they do now. For example, in some states, the parents had to have a college degree in order to homeschool. Other states had various testing or paperwork requirements. Also, since homeschooling was way outside the mainstream back then, neighbors would get suspicious when they noticed that these people's kids weren't in school and they would report them to child protective services. But homeschooling is so common in the USA now that much of what the HSLDA did 30 years ago is no longer relevant. Parents aren't taken to court anymore just because their kids are homeschooled. If a family is taken to court in this day and age, there is some other reason for it, probably because of abuse or neglect. But as we've seen with the various fundie families we discuss here at Free Jinger, the government pretty much lets these people raise their kids as they please and they rarely intervene, except in extreme cases like the Turpin family.

I teach in PA which has very strict education laws in general, and homeschooling laws are what I understand to be some of the strictest in the country. I believe that group actually just had a lawsuit in my district - our laws changed fairly recently and the explosion of homeschooling during the pandemic has caused issues. The district was requiring steps that don't actually exist anymore as I understood it and they (or someone similar) sued. So they are likely using cases like that to scare parents into paying for their services here. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

As a currently pregnant person, the "typical teen schedule" above is really re-enforcing my opinions about giving teenagers free time! I didn't work or volunteer every day; I didn't do an extracurricular every day; and I certainly didn't go to bed past midnight. I read a lot, hung out with friends, went for walks, worked a few hours per week. I grew up to get a PhD, a job I love and a good personal life so I think I did fine.

I used to teach piano, and I certainly taught kids that were this scheduled, though. I always felt bad for them.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

22 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

As a currently pregnant person, the "typical teen schedule" above is really re-enforcing my opinions about giving teenagers free time! I didn't work or volunteer every day; I didn't do an extracurricular every day; and I certainly didn't go to bed past midnight. I read a lot, hung out with friends, went for walks, worked a few hours per week. I grew up to get a PhD, a job I love and a good personal life so I think I did fine.

I used to teach piano, and I certainly taught kids that were this scheduled, though. I always felt bad for them.

I feel bad for kids that scheduled, too.  Only one of my kids had a job in high school and I never would have allowed it if it meant he wasn't getting to bed until midnight.  Also, four hours of homework is rare....maybe finals or special projects but if that's a daily thing Idk then some of the other stuff would have to go IMO.

[Maggie Mae]

I had a schedule similar to that. My school had a parents meeting at the beginning of freshman year where they told parents that every class required 30-60 minutes of homework and to let the teenagers sleep in on weekends. Which, for me, was never possible because that's when we had tennis tournaments, citywide swim meets, and extra practice and occasionally Saturday detention. I usually had class from 7:10 - 2:40, followed by a club meeting or practice or both. Tennis was probably the easiest to deal with, because we did homework while waiting for court time. I also did gymnastics, swimming, and track. Band practice was over lunch and if I could retroactively go back and quit band, I would. That was the biggest waste of time and cult like. Hated having to waste my Friday nights going to stupid football games and wearing such embarrassing uniforms. 

I got a job as soon as I could because I hated babysitting and my parents didn't cover much beyond tuition and food. 

I usually "worked" for 2-3 hours during peak times in the evenings a couple nights a week and on the weekends. We also were expected to volunteer which my transcripts said I did, but I don't remember anything about it. 

I still got most of my homework done and honestly I think being busy is why I got it done at all. If it wasn't done, I probably wasn't going to do it regardless of other commitments.  

My point is that I still managed to hang out with friends and do nothing but drive around for what seemed like hours, maintain grades, and apparently didnt die of sleep deprivation. I was a nervous kid, though, and did stupid stuff like wake up at 5 to get ready for class at 7:10.  Why on earth did I need that much time to put on makeup and do my hair and pick out an outfit? Ridiculous. 

 

[sparkles]

Except for a couple of summer jobs working at a camp, I was a complete lump as a teenager (I only rarely even babysat because I hated it). I was also a very bored, unmotivated, indifferent, uninvolved student whose priority was to remain as invisible as possible, and I barely graduated HS. I didn't turn any of that around until I went to community college where I suddenly found my mojo (and made the dean's list—same when I transferred to 4-year college). Still, it took me years—decades actually—to find something I really liked and that I could make a career of. Better late than never, I guess.

On the other hand, my daughter was an extremely self-motivated student. In all her years in school, I never once had to remind her to do her homework or projects. Teachers loved her because she always participated in class and never shied away from speaking her mind. She was involved in all sorts of non-sporty extracurricular activities, was president of several, won awards, graduated in the top 2% of her class of 400+—all of which made it abundantly clear that they gave us the wrong child at the hospital. ?

We're hardly well off but we never wanted her to have an after-school job because we thought being a high-performing student was more than enough. She also attended a few summer writing programs so we never insisted on a summer job either. One thing we did insist on is that she didn't over-schedule herself so she could have adequate time for a social life—and there were a couple of things she wanted to do that we, not exactly put the kibosh on, but had her really look at what her priorities were before she made a decision. I'm firmly of the opinion that if it's financially possible and unless it's the kid's choice to get a job during school, kids need time to just be kids. They have a lifetime to do all that adulting shit.

[kmachete14]

Wow! I definitely was not exaggerating. That was literally my high school schedule and my current 17 year olds brother’s. You get “alone time” on the weekends. Sports and clubs and classes are where your friends are, so they are also social activities.

I guess to clarify: I took all AP classes, was on varsity soccer, volunteered at Ronald McDonald house & a low income tutoring center, participated in model UN, and did club soccer, AND babysat for cash. 
 

sleeping midnight -6am is a part of teenage biology. School starting early goes against teenage biology (circadian rhythm is to stay up late and sleep in). I couldn’t have fallen asleep much earlier anyways. However, I also was extremely motivated to get all As, so I preferred to study!