Maxwell 46: Relegating the Kids' Table to the Vestibule

[SPHASH]

New post up.  Steve is promoting HSLDA.  Join within the next 30 days, tell them Steve sent you and you get a free pamphlet!

[catlady]

@anachronistic, it depends.  Most of the conversation seems (to me, anyway) to be about formal and/or professional settings, i.e. a newspaper, workplace correspondence that is intended for a wide audience, basically situations where the speaker/writer would be expected to have knowledge and training of such.  In general, the setting, message, and purpose all matter; but even that is dependent on a whole range of gray area.  There are times when a given message must depend on clear, concise wording that isn’t open to interpretation.  Formal communication has a side purpose in building confidence in its audience, and that confidence can be shaken by poor execution.  
FJ certainly would not fall into that category as it is informal and leisurely.  And no, it’s not necessary that you “should” notice it.  The topic mostly is being discussed by a small number of people who happen to have a constant awareness of grammar and spelling.  I’m one of them, but at the same time, I don’t know jack shit about decorating and can’t tell a cool color from a warm one to save my life.  I just know that I painted my living room orange because I like it.  Not everyone is expected to know everything, but there are times where certain people should know certain things, and that’s the point of the conversation.  ?

[freejugar]

I don't get how homeschooling works in the USA, why would you need a lawyer?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, freejugar said:

I don't get how homeschooling works in the USA, why would you need a lawyer?

Some jurisdictions require testing/some type of check and balance and other requirements (ages schooling is required, mandatory subjects, "teacher" qualifications, notification, assessments, and immunization requirements) that many of our fundy homeschoolers can't/won't meet.  Link for all the states from this HSLDA.  This is an organization that defends the rights of people like the Naugler's "unschool" their kids with no standards whatsoever.

https://hslda.org/legal/illinois?gclid=Cj0KCQjwi7yCBhDJARIsAMWFScNcLfVNeo0Od4YtDq1tw-pTSuoc6UPlYoiGrDGXlnAk5E3-rR6V7TsaAngOEALw_wcB

 

[fundiewatch]

I think that NR Anna is one of the most independent members of the Maxwell family. She is living her preferred way of being, even if/as others change. That’s a good thing. She’s an old fashioned woman who enjoys sewing, the girls wear new dresses but also ones she made for Abby, or her sister Sarah (Gracie, if the Maxwells have their say). They are passed down, and she cares about them looking freshly laundered and ironed. She has even made the guys matching shirts— she’s just old school and I don’t get the hate on it. It would be worse if she changed her aesthetic to fit what others want. 

[SassyPants]

My pet peeve: the words “prolly” (for probably) and “tho” (though). 

[Nothing if not critical]

I used to be super snobbish about grammar mistakes (real and perceived), always complaining about my pet peeves and correcting people.

Then I went to university to study linguistics and was treated to a long lecture by my professor on language change over time and the difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar. Ever since that time, I've been considerably more relaxed. Once you realise that a lot of the forms you don't approve of are either perfectly fine in another regional variant, used to be acceptable a few hundred years ago, or will be acceptable in a few more decades, you stop worrying so much about obscure grammar rules, I guess. And honestly, once a majority of speakers of a language collectively decides a rule makes no sense, it will disappear. It's just a question of time.

Mind you, I still notice mistakes, and if you want to teach your kids, I believe you should have a decent grasp of spelling and grammar (I'm looking at you, Alyssa). But I've come to accept that language isn't always perfectly logical or predictable. (For example: To me, "didn't used to" sounds wrong, and I feel that logically it should be "didn't use to". But apparently it's perfectly fine for most speakers of English, so who am I to argue.)

Edited March 15, 2021 by Nothing if not critical

[fundiefan]

5 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I used to be super snobbish about grammar mistakes (real and perceived), always complaining about my pet peeves and correcting people.

Then I went to university to study linguistics and was treated to a long lecture by my professor on language change over time and the difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar. Ever since that time, I've been considerably more relaxed. Once you realise that a lot of the forms you don't approve of are either perfectly fine in another regional variant, used to be acceptable a few hundred years ago, or will be acceptable in a few more decades, you stop worrying so much about obscure grammar rules, I guess. And honestly, once a majority of speakers of a language collectively decides a rule makes no sense, it will disappear. It's just a question of time.

Mind you, I still notice mistakes, and if you want to teach your kids, I believe you should have a decent grasp of spelling and grammar (I'm looking at you, Alyssa). But I've come to accept that language isn't always perfectly logical or predictable. (For example: To me, "didn't used to" sounds wrong, and I feel that logically it should be "didn't use to". But apparently it's perfectly fine for most speakers of English, so who am I to argue.)

I didn't study Linguistics, but I did my thesis on "text-speak" - back in 2005. I went into it with a  loathing and came out with a fuller understanding of language being fluid and not static. 

I accept it, but I don't always like it. 

I notice & cringe, but pretty much never say anything. While I accept that language changes, there are things that are - right now, not later and not 100 years ago - correct. And it bugs me to no end that people choose not to learn or use it correctly. I compare it to saying "1 + 1 = 3 because, well, that's what I wanna' say, everything changes over time, it doesn't matter".

It matters. It's not life threatening, but it matters. 

[Nothing if not critical]

1 hour ago, fundiefan said:

While I accept that language changes, there are things that are - right now, not later and not 100 years ago - correct. And it bugs me to no end that people choose not to learn or use it correctly.

Oh, I absolutely agree. It's just... there are a few things that even people who speak English as a first language, well-educated people, don't seem to be able to agree on (such as "it is I" vs, "it's me"). And I don't usually bother taking sides in those discussions anymore. It matters. But at the end of the day, what people say often matters more than how they say it.

ETA: If any of you feel differently, I didn't mean to criticise you for it - language is a perfectly valid topic to have strong feelings on. I'm really just speaking for myself. And I just can't get all worked up over grammar anymore. I am careful about my own grammar, though, so if you notice any mistakes in my writing, feel free to point them out.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Nothing if not critical
Second thought

[bertnee]

2 hours ago, freejugar said:

I don't get how homeschooling works in the USA, why would you need a lawyer?

Fundie homeschool parents are often worried that The Government is going to come in and trample on their God-given rights to teach their children what and how they want. Any regulation is bad regulation.

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, bertnee said:

Fundie homeschool parents are often worried that The Government is going to come in and trample on their God-given rights to teach their children what and how they want. Any regulation is bad regulation.

The ebil gubment is gonna come take their homeskool rights away along with their guns. And put their kids into reeducation camps. The sky is falling! 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1) It's not a pamphlet; it's a DVD! They're charging steep prices for it. $54.99! For that amount of money, I hope it comes with a DVD player.  But tell them Steve sent you and you get it for free.

2) This anecdote is interesting! and gives an example of what this organization can do. 

Quote

HSLDA helped us when our daughter’s university of choice in the U.K. did not want to recognize her homeschool diploma and transcript. They quickly drafted a respectful letter and built a bridge in communication resulting in our daughters full acceptance into a prestigious arts academy. We were so grateful for their commitment to make sure our homeschooling efforts were recognized by those who were unfamiliar with home education.

I always laugh when the Maxwell fans mention normal things like going to university, high school, etc. 

3) This bible quote at the bottom of the page is trying to encourage people to join, but comes off judgmental of those who aren't members. 

Quote

“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself:
but the simple pass on, and are punished.” Proverbs 22:3

I wonder how many homeschooling fundies can't afford to be members. There must be steep costs involved. And a lot of later generation fundies have less money and job opportunities than earlier fundies.

This is one of the crazier posts on the main thread in a long time. 

[crawfishgirl]

Steve didn't elaborate on the situations in which this membership would be beneficial, nor did he provide actual examples showing its value.  He could have discussed the benefits of this membership if he wanted to sell this idea to the readers.  This reminds me of Sarah's writing, since she also doesn't provide complete information.  

[fundiewatch]

Honestly I mostly hear about HSLDA when they’re defending child beating. 

[IReallyAmHopewell]

8 hours ago, SPHASH said:

New post up.  Steve is promoting HSLDA.  Join within the next 30 days, tell them Steve sent you and you get a free pamphlet!

Scam organization that breeds fear. I homeschooled, read the rules for my state, kept the records asked, covered the subjects and that was that. This one organization is more responsible for the extreme-sheltering of children than any other organization. FEAR. That's their game. Fear. Especially FEAR of CPS. I was a single Mom. I had CPS visit, they were nice, professional, they came back once as a follow up, rolled her eyes at the neighbor who must have reported me for god knows what (my kid being annoying likely) and that was that. Mind you we were living on subflooring! It was smooth and safe was her comment! HSLD used to provide guidance on how to teach your kids to talk to social workers. Ridiculous but it brings in the $$$$   They also write up case descriptions that ignore the facts of law and skew the narrative of them to their own ends.

Edited March 15, 2021 by IReallyAmHopewell
forgot

[courtlylove]

8 hours ago, catlady said:

@anachronistic, it depends.  Most of the conversation seems (to me, anyway) to be about formal and/or professional settings, i.e. a newspaper, workplace correspondence that is intended for a wide audience, basically situations where the speaker/writer would be expected to have knowledge and training of such.  In general, the setting, message, and purpose all matter; but even that is dependent on a whole range of gray area.  There are times when a given message must depend on clear, concise wording that isn’t open to interpretation.  Formal communication has a side purpose in building confidence in its audience, and that confidence can be shaken by poor execution.  
FJ certainly would not fall into that category as it is informal and leisurely.  And no, it’s not necessary that you “should” notice it.  The topic mostly is being discussed by a small number of people who happen to have a constant awareness of grammar and spelling.  I’m one of them, but at the same time, I don’t know jack shit about decorating and can’t tell a cool color from a warm one to save my life.  I just know that I painted my living room orange because I like it.  Not everyone is expected to know everything, but there are times where certain people should know certain things, and that’s the point of the conversation.  ?

That's exactly how I feel. There's are times and places where expression should be accurate, and other times where the communication is the main thing, not how 'perfect' it is. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by courtlylove

[Black Aliss]

11 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

I think she was frumper as a single, and her wedding dress was frumpy, too. Her younger sister was also dressed in frumpers back in the day.

Maybe it is her mom who has changed her style, while Anna Marie kept her "prairie" style. I think that Anna's brothers and their families all dress mainstream.

She married into a frumper family. At that time Teri and the Spinsters (oh, wouldn't that be a great name for an all-girl heavy metal band?) practically lived in those matching oversized cotton print jumpers. Maybe that's Chris's personal kink.

[treemom]

6 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

1) It's not a pamphlet; it's a DVD! They're charging steep prices for it. $54.99! For that amount of money, I hope it comes with a DVD player.  But tell them Steve sent you and you get it for free.

But how can you watch a DVD unless you own the beast?

[CyborgKin]

11 hours ago, SassyPants said:

My pet peeve: the words “prolly” (for probably) and “tho” (though). 

What about 'finna'?

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

42 minutes ago, CyborgKin said:

What about 'finna'?

What does finna mean? This is not a thing that I know of in my region.

[GreenBeans]

14 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I used to be super snobbish about grammar mistakes (real and perceived), always complaining about my pet peeves and correcting people.

Then I went to university to study linguistics and was treated to a long lecture by my professor on language change over time and the difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar. Ever since that time, I've been considerably more relaxed. Once you realise that a lot of the forms you don't approve of are either perfectly fine in another regional variant, used to be acceptable a few hundred years ago, or will be acceptable in a few more decades, you stop worrying so much about obscure grammar rules, I guess.

To me, this realization was deeply unsettling. I’ve always had a pretty good grasp of spelling and grammar, and a very strong and clear perception of what felt right, grammar- and spelling-wise, even as a child. English is not my native language, so I’ll be making more mistakes when using English than when using my native language.

But still, even when studying foreign languages, I didn’t really have to study any rules, I just went by whatever “felt right”, and that usually worked out. So when they decided to change the spelling rules in my native language when I was a kid, apparently to make things “easier” and more logical/consistent, that felt horrible to me. Even though sometimes the new spelling WAS more logical, it still felt “wrong” to me because I was used to the former (illogical, but “correct”) spelling, and that entire concept of language and its rules being fluid was something I just wasn’t willing to accept.

I guess I’ve mellowed somewhat over the years, but still have my pet peeves...

Edited March 16, 2021 by GreenBeans

[Nothing if not critical]

38 minutes ago, GreenBeans said:

So when they decided to change the spelling rules in my native language when I was a kid, apparently to make things “easier” and more logical/consistent, that felt horrible to me.

Your first language is German, too, right? I get what you say - I was much the same as a kid and I hated most of the changes at first. I’ve gotten used to them, though, especially since my kids have never known anything else.

Still, that kind of reform is actually an example of prescriptive language change, which I’m not a big fan of. I was referring more to changes that happen naturally, for example through the influence of another language. Stuff like using „in 2021“ in German, which is technically wrong (it should just be „2021“ or „im Jahr 2021“) - but under the influence of English so many people are using it now that it will probably be deemed acceptable soon. And that’s fine with me. Clearly it feels natural and right to many speakers of German, so there seems no point in sticking to the old rule. As I said, YMMV.

[usmcmom]

On 3/14/2021 at 7:52 PM, Tatar-tot said:

Anna’s mom looks positively normal.  She dresses in an attractive manner and has a cute haircut & glasses.  How on earth did Anna become obsessed with the frumper as the key fashion choice in her wardrobe?  She is too young and too cute to be dressed like she is on the set of Little House on the Prairie on a day in day out basis. 

I think, in photos of Anna and Christopher’s courtship days, her mother and sister are both dressed in jumpers too. Maybe I am remembering things all wrong. I wonder if Anna’s mother has made a shift in her wardrobe and if that might lead Anna to do the same. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I just saw "finna" in an article about how dictionary.com added it this year. It's an abbreviation of "fixing to," which I take it means "planning to." This is AAVE that (as far as I've heard) hasn't made it to southern Ontario (yet?).

Possibly it's in Toronto but the slang there is pretty Caribbean influenced.

[kpmom]

21 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I always laugh when the Maxwell fans mention normal things like going to university, high school, etc. 

 

And it wasn't even a Bible College.  A (prestigious, doncha know) Arts Academy!  They probably don't even have a Mrs. degree! ?