Safe At Home 6: PIGS ARE FLYING! Luke is Engaged!

[Rose55blue]

14 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

The flip side is the younger ones (who aren't all that young now - I think the youngest is almost 20) have tons of older brothers watching their every move and giving endless useless advice. It's almost like having six or eight or ten additional nutty parents.

One thing I find most bizarre about the Arndts is that Rick seems to have a total fixation on the oldest five or six sons, with the first four clearly having a place of honor in the family. Watch any one of his Sunday sermons and you'll see the majority of the sons under 35 never open their mouths, except maybe to sing some dreadful contemporary Christian songs. I'd like to think this means he's less focused on the younger ones and this will give them some sort of advantage, but Rick is so off the wall, I really don't know what it means.  

 

He does seem to pay a lot of attention to the older ones, endless chats in the car, meetings, prayers…but maybe because the younger ones aren’t mature enough to actually have a decent conversation with (half of the time they just laugh and tell the same stories they heard from the older brothers). 
 

Does anyone know any info on Cathy’s 10 siblings? 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 hour ago, Rose55blue said:

Does anyone know any info on Cathy’s 10 siblings? 

Mostly sisters as I recall. One is a chiropractor who has/had her own business and I believe another sister is the CFO for  the family's tool and die business.  A number of cousins seem to have gone to college and seem generally not fundie. 

 

[quiversR4hunting]

Every time I think of the possibility of an Ardnt single adult male getting married, I think of Debbie and Fester.

Specifically the scene of Fester cowering upstairs when Gomez and family come to visit him because if he talked to his family no more sexy time with Debbie. (I couldn't find a picture of that scene.)

Edited August 30, 2022 by quiversR4hunting
Debate self on grammer

[keen23]

On 8/29/2022 at 2:52 PM, Jana814 said:

Agree. I have a friend who’s older sister (they are 10 years apart) started dating her husband when she was 13 & he was 17. No one batted an eye. They didn’t get married till her sister was 24 though. 

My friend's Mom married her babysitter, who was 10 years older than her. Total ick. They started "dating" when she was 15, and he was 25, and got married the day after she turned 18. It was always weird when that friend would talk about her parents and how they met. It was the 60's when her parents got together. Doesn't make it any better, but perhaps more acceptable than it is today.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

This is the most action this thread has had in years. You’d think they had actually done something. 

[Rose55blue]

Watched their lates video and was wondering if the guys have potential girl with them coming to their prayer meetings etc and they just basically analyse her (how she reacts in certain situations) for a few weeks, even months and then as soon as she does something they don’t like that’s it. 

They are giving a lot of examples from the parties(ironic really)/ weddings how women are there. 

Also a lot of talk about how women should be feminine and men masculine. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, Rose55blue said:

Watched their lates video and was wondering if the guys have potential girl with them coming to their prayer meetings etc and they just basically analyse her (how she reacts in certain situations) for a few weeks, even months and then as soon as she does something they don’t like that’s it. 

They are giving a lot of examples from the parties(ironic really)/ weddings how women are there. 

Also a lot of talk about how women should be feminine and men masculine. 

I’ve always loved their photography. But if they are actively judging the behavior of women at weddings, I would never want to hire them. 

[Rose55blue]

17 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve always loved their photography. But if they are actively judging the behavior of women at weddings, I would never want to hire them. 

Yes they are amazing photographers. Don’t actually know how many of the guys do photography ( Mark and Philip?) 

I think they don’t have many opportunities to meet women so weddings are where they can.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

On 8/31/2022 at 4:48 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve always loved their photography. But if they are actively judging the behavior of women at weddings, I would never want to hire them. 

From the latest video, they clearly are judging women constantly.

The boys could have done with some more sisters. I really think they believe women are a different species and when they keep running into normal women, they are befuddled and turn away. Having been born after nearly a dozen sons, Mary Elizabeth has always been viewed and treated as a rare and special and very different creature. She has never been one of the boys. But if just another three or four of the kids had been daughters, I think even in spite of Rick's craziness everyone would have some sort of understanding of the social construction nature of gender. I'm not saying they wouldn't still be misogynistic, only that their expectations might be much more realistic.    

[AmazonGrace]

Spoiler

Also a lot of talk about how women should be feminine and men masculine. 

Safe at home at forty, living in mommy and daddy's pocket, afraid of girls. The most masculine man thing you could do. 

 

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I think that Rick and Cathy have ingrained the belief in all the boys there are no good women suitable for marriage out there. There are no women as wonderful, kind, godly, feminine, perfect, etc. as their mother.

Cathy is the epitome, the paragon of femininity, womanliness and motherhood.  There is one and only one (Cathy) in all the world.  Unless such a paragon can be found (and she cannot) there is no point in looking.  There in no point in even thinking about marriage. How could they defile the ideal of womanhood by marrying anyone not as absolutely perfect as Cathy?

And ............ Since marriage is the only reason to leave home. The manboys stay at home. Safe in the knowledge they are protecting the ideal of feminine womanhood by not settling for anything less than absolutely perfect.

Fearless prediction:  Cathy loves/thrives on being idolized as the perfect woman by 13 sons and subtly (but relentlessly) encourages this belief.   Wizzy is the rare and special virgin sister and the boys are dead set on protecting that.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

I think it's impossible for any outsider to fully understand the inner workings of a cult, never mind a family cult like the Arndts.  I've been casually watching them for many years, and I think I can say with some confidence that Rick is the driving force here, but he couldn't have pulled it off without Cathy. And she's a big mystery to me.

Cathy follows Rick's rules, but stays in the background with regard to his "ministry". I can't recall her quoting the Bible much, if at all. She doesn't participate in his Sunday sermons (she's probably in the kitchen) and basically comes off as just a good and faithful servant to Rick. 

As a mother she's very different from your typical quiverfull fundie mother. While I suspect when the kids were young she was very strict, if you listen to her parenting advise, it's usually rational and thoughtful. She seems to have done a good job with their education even admitting that once a kid finished grade school, she didn't feel she could teach advanced math or Spanish, so she'd switch to a correspondence homeschool program where their work was reviewed and graded elsewhere. They aren't afraid of actual science. And unlike a Michelle Duggar type, she seems to have walked the walk teaching positive character qualities.

 So why is she okay with what's going on with the kids she worked so hard to raise well? Her siblings and nieces and nephews have gone on to college and careers and families. Doesn't she want that for her own family?  How can she not want grandkids, now that all of her own are adults? Where does she see things standing in 20 years when her oldest are senior citizens and the youngest well into middle age?

Is Cathy a victim? Or is she fully onboard with Rick's craziness? If there is any fundie I'd love to talk to for an hour while she's under a truth serum, it's Cathy Arndt. 

[Eastcoastn]

I haven't been on this forum in ages but when I noticed them posting new videos I just had to come back. 

The one with Cathy giving weight loss advice was shockingly not as bad as I imagined it would be. There were a couple of questionable things that made me think of an ED but for the most part, I thought she handled it okay. 
The one with Mark and John sitting there talking about what they look for in women was soooo sexist. Am I surprised? No not really, but honestly when they talked about their future wives needing to be "sweet" and "girly" and basically submissive? Gag me. And honestly it seems like Cathy runs that household and is not exactly "submissive". She bosses them all around in all the videos! 
Whoever said (up there ^^) that they have unrealistic expectations, was so right! There's a reason why none of them have found a girlfriend except Luke (and I'm not sure if he's still with her but he was at one point, they had couple-y looking photos on fb). They think their mom and sister are perfection and that's just sickening to me. One day when they're old and single they'll realize that nobody is perfect, not even Mommy! 

 

[Howl]

...and then there's the perpetually unfinished Vine Valley film.  Did they pilgrimage to where ever they go to do more filming this summer?

Do the "boys" still play baseball?  They have enough players for their own team; surely there's a fun baseball league in their town. 

 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

...and then there's the perpetually unfinished Vine Valley film.  Did they pilgrimage to where ever they go to do more filming this summer?

Do the "boys" still play baseball?  They have enough players for their own team; surely there's a fun baseball league in their town. 

 

Yes, Vine Valley is still filming, and I think they went to NY again this past winter, although I'm not sure. Covid makes the years run together for me.

Good question about the softball; I was wondering the same. The games stopped at the onset of the pandemic but you'd think they'd have started up again by at least this season but it hasn't been mentioned. Maybe Rick decided it was time to retire from playing and the others stopped because, well, Rick stopped. 

[nokidsmom]

On 9/3/2022 at 9:40 AM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Fearless prediction:  Cathy loves/thrives on being idolized as the perfect woman by 13 sons and subtly (but relentlessly) encourages this belief.   Wizzy is the rare and special virgin sister and the boys are dead set on protecting that.

I agree with this.  And also I think she may, perhaps unconsciously, does not want to cede her position as "no. 1 woman" in her son's lives to a girlfriend or daughter-in-law.   And I suspect that Wizzy is encouraged to see her Dad and perhaps her brothers as the no. 1 man/men in her life.

Just speaking from my own experience, my father liked he idea of being no. 1 guy in mine and my sister's lives and had a very hard time ceding that position to Mr. No and BIL, though he never said it, he showed it in rather subtle ways.   While I certainly loved and respected my dad he was simply my Dad and Mr. No was my spouse, two completely different roles in my life and where I saw no competition.   But that's not how he saw it.  Understood but I wasn't going to let that interfere with my relationship with Mr. No. something that my sisters made the mistake of allowing to happen.   At first it seems harmless, but the damage is done long before it's realized. 

And so I think with the Arndts, any programming about there are no suitable people out there, which is grounded in parent worship, who can't compare to them, tells me that the damage has been done.  Especially for the older manboys who are letting life passing them by already.  That none of them have got a clue that something may be wrong with this picture when / or almost 40 tells me that the programming is very strong indeed.

[Eastcoastn]

I think 2 of are now 40+. I know Paul was born in 1980, the next one might be 1982. Would be surprised if the next one was 40 next year. Actually, I found a list: Arndts Wiki. Paul and a John are over 40. Mark just turned 39. Luke is 37.5.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Eastcoastn

[Howl]

2 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

That none of them have got a clue that something may be wrong with this picture when / or almost 40 tells me that the programming is very strong indeed.

The Safe at Home theme...not a coincidence. 

What was Rick's profession before he "retired" and let the kidults pick up the slack with court reporting and photography?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Howl

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

How long has Rick been "retired" and forced allowed his oldest children to support his trifling self/ the entire family?

Does anyone know why he quit working retired?

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

34 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

How long has Rick been "retired" and forced allowed his oldest children to support his trifling self/ the entire family?

Does anyone know why he quit working retired?

Rick was a court reporter when the kids were growing up. He stopped working when three or so of the sons were also certified as court reporters and could handle the business without him. I would say he quit doing any work himself well over a decade ago, when he would have been in his early or mid 50s. 

I don't recall ever knowing why he stopped, but my guess is that his answer would be that he wanted to focus on his home-based ministry. 

Editing to add to the last sentence "and to work on Vine Valley, which he was/is sure would make it to theaters."

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Anne Of Gray Gables

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

don't recall ever knowing why he stopped, but my guess is that his answer would be that he wanted to focus on his home-based ministry. 

Editing to add to the last sentence "and to work on Vine Valley, which he was/is sure would make it to theaters."

Which includes a lot of driving while rambling (while hitting a coyote) and probably a lot of navel gazing when he is finally safe at home.

 

[Howl]

12 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Rick was a court reporter when the kids were growing up. He stopped working when three or so of the sons were also certified as court reporters and could handle the business without him.

Three sons (and many to follow) who had zero choice in their own career paths...

Just thinking -- Vine Valley is a sad business.   SRSLY,  were it not for Rick's neurosis/OCD/whatever in this age of digital production, Vine Valley should have been finished and in theaters to rave reviews (!) 8 or 10 or more years ago. 

Is it possible that this is an entire family with some form of OCD? 

Can't finish a film (it's not perfect!), obsessing over the qualities of a perfect wife to the point of paralysis? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eastcoastn]

What kills me as these things like… If she shows up looking "too pretty", it doesn't interest them because it obviously wasn't just for them. And then if she acts flirty, you have to look out and see if she acts flirty with an next person or she's not really flirting with you, etc. their opinions are just so.... extreme? And the way they say a lot of the stuff is a dying concept, that women are not being "girls" as much anymore over the past few decades.  I think they need to take a close look in the mirror because I don't find any of them to be super masculine people. In fact, a whole bunch of them talk in more feminine ways (off hand - John, Jude, Luke, Nathan, Peter...). So what pedestal are you sitting yourself on that you are some kind of "epitome of man" who only wants someone "girly" without noticing that?

As a sidenote, anybody else see that YouTube video that Mary Elizabeth was in about abortion? It was interesting to see her speak "as an adult" but of course, her opinions are extreme and ridiculous. Even her comments on that channel's videos are like "if you don't believe marriage is for men and women, I immediately know you're not truly a Christian". 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Eastcoastn

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Eastcoastn said:

What kills me as these things like… If she shows up looking "too pretty", it doesn't interest them because it obviously wasn't just for them. And then if she acts flirty, you have to look out and see if she acts flirty with an next person or she's not really flirting with you, etc. their opinions are just so.... extreme? And the way they say a lot of the stuff is a dying concept, that women are not being "girls" as much anymore over the past few decades.  I think they need to take a close look in the mirror because I don't find any of them to be super masculine people. In fact, a whole bunch of them talk in more feminine ways (off hand - John, Jude, Luke, Nathan, Peter...). So what pedestal are you sitting yourself on that you are some kind of "epitome of man" who only wants someone "girly" without noticing that?

It honestly sounds like we should all be very glad no female has been ensnared by these man boys. How miserable an Arndt wife would be. 

[Howl]

  

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It honestly sounds like we should all be very glad no female has been ensnared by these man boys. How miserable an Arndt wife would be.

I'm still chewing over the raging lack of awareness/stunted insight it takes to be never-married guys in their early 40s thinking they have something to offer on choosing wife.  I mean, WTAF  people. 

It's a master class on how to be stuck...she's pretty but too pretty but not tooo pretty, if you know what I mean and is she indicating interest in me? that's a deal breaker because whoa!  if she is feminine enough to capture my interest and seems interested but then am I interested just because she feminine and I'm attracted to her also a deal breaker.  And all of my brothers will chew over the appropriateness of my choice, which is the wrong choice because she's not perfect for the following reasons...Neurotic. Neurotic. Neurotic. 

If one of the man boys did actually tie the knot, they would have zero ZERO concept of how to live with a woman who wasn't their mother or sister.  Maybe one of the younger boys who is closer in age to his sister? I dunno. 

These guys have been raised with zero privacy and I'm sure taught that masterbation is so very wrong in the eyes of God.  Not only are these guys raised fundy, they are raised by an ex-Catholic fundy. Not seeing a good marital outcome.  

Lawza mercy. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Howl