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Safe At Home 6: Rick's Got A Streaming Service! And COVID!


nelliebelle1197

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I suppose the question is whether or not the Arndt men would be willing to sacrifice their relationships with their father and brothers in order to get to know a woman well enough to decide on their own to marry her. It seems they are not, arguing for enmeshment being the primary reason they are single. 

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So as always with the Arndts, we must return to the "Why?" of the situation. Why do Rick and by extension Cathy want ALL of their grown ass sons aging at home with them?  Why not just keep the one they never talk about (I won't name him) at home to run errands and James around to fix shit and make cabinets?  Why do they want fourteen adults safe at home?

The easy answer is that Rick wanted to retire early and all of them do some sort of work to make that easy for him. As far as I know, not a single one has worked for anyone outside the family, and I'm sure all earnings go straight to "the family" aka Rick. I also think Rick is suffering from some sort of mental illness and he's been infecting the family with it for many years.

But these answers don't feel complete to me. What are we missing here?

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9 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

All those safety nets have to fail at the same time in order for Bashful to get hitched.

This whole safety net thing is brilliant and so true.  I've read it a few more times and laughed every time.  I imagine an ear splitting  ah-ooooogah submarine dive horn that goes off if one of the boys is really thinking about a woman. 

Does pervasive neuroses underlie the superficially normal Arndts?

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15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I looked at Luke’s rumored gf’s fb page and I don’t see any of the posts mentioning him. I wonder if those two broke up and that is a lesson to all the other brothers. 

She’s made her profile more private. It could just be that.

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I looked at Luke’s rumored gf’s fb page and I don’t see any of the posts mentioning him. I wonder if those two broke up and that is a lesson to all the other brothers. 

She’s made her profile more private so it could just be that.

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17 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

But these answers don't feel complete to me. What are we missing here?

I feel the same way, like there's got to be more to it.   Especially considering that with 14 adults, there had to be at least one or two who would, I don't what to call it maybe  "rebel" for lack of a better term?   Even if it's as simple as wanting to go out and live their own life, work for himself or an employer who is not Dad, wants that girlfriend more than pleasing the family, in sort do what normal adults do.

That all 14 of them have not differentiated in any way is remarkable, it truly is.   My parents managed 2 out of 3.   Even other fundie families we talk about here have had the one or more that have the left the family borg in terms of making their own choices in spite of what the family thinks, Jill Duggar being one example.  

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It’s hard because we have literally no one to compare them to. We compare fundie families all the time. Because there are overlapping similarities in family function and culture. There is no other fundie family like the Arndts. None. So we are lost as to how this all works. 

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Guess their Bibles don't include: 

Song of Solomon 1

English Standard Version

1 The Song of Songs, which is Solomon's.

The Bride Confesses Her Love

She[a]

2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth!
For your love is better than wine;
3     your anointing oils are fragrant;
your name is oil poured out;
    therefore virgins love you.
4 Draw me after you; let us run.
    The king has brought me into his chambers.

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5 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s hard because we have literally no one to compare them to. We compare fundie families all the time. Because there are overlapping similarities in family function and culture. There is no other fundie family like the Arndts. None. So we are lost as to how this all works. 

Exactly. The Arndts are very hard to follow because they are so boring. There is nothing remotely interesting about any of their individual lives. 

But as a collective? Hands down the most fascinating fundie family of them all. Like probably most of you out here, I like to solve riddles. And it's maddening to me that this puzzle will almost certainly never be solved. We can imagine young Peter - who a few years ago was sporting some rock star level long hair - saying "Eff this, not only am I leaving, I'm writing a book exposing what happened here", but it is never going to happen. Because even if Peter did leave, he'd never be able to understand what went on here, let alone explain it to others.

A team of anthropologists with full cooperation from everyone in the family would be needed and even then, I'm not sure the riddle of the Arndts would ever be solved. 

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@Anne Of Gray Gables they could be the subject of several scientific papers and dissertations for psychology, sociology and religious study professionals and students. 

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18 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

@Anne Of Gray Gables they could be the subject of several scientific papers and dissertations for psychology, sociology and religious study professionals and students. 

Agree. They could help humanity is so many different ways!

 

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9 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I feel the same way, like there's got to be more to it.   Especially considering that with 14 adults, there had to be at least one or two who would, I don't what to call it maybe  "rebel" for lack of a better term? 

But that's the nature of enmeshment. They don't know who they are as individuals.  They exist only within the context of their siblings and parents. 

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This family will never be understood by psychologists or anthropologists.

Ornithologists, on the other hand....

It's flock behavior. You can't understand the behavior of any one bird because they function less as an individual and more as a group. 

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The Arndt's  are:  The Borg are cybernetic organisms linked in a hive mind called "the Collective".  (from Wikipedia)

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So it occured to me yesterday while I was watching the livestream of the Staddon wedding that Staddons are an interesting contrast to Ardnts. The Staddon family has 8 kids with 1 daughter. I think the unmarried sons live at home. During the wedding, they talked purity for both women and men. Actually the Staddons were the ones who particularly emphasized purity and talked about James keeping himself pure. It was similar to Ardnt's beliefs about needing to get to know the person and not just led by attraction and emotions, etc. You can read James's and Julianna's courtship story and watch the wedding (link).

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36 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

So it occured to me yesterday while I was watching the livestream of the Staddon wedding that Staddons are an interesting contrast to Ardnts. The Staddon family has 8 kids with 1 daughter. I think the unmarried sons live at home. During the wedding, they talked purity for both women and men. Actually the Staddons were the ones who particularly emphasized purity and talked about James keeping himself pure. It was similar to Ardnt's beliefs about needing to get to know the person and not just led by attraction and emotions, etc. You can read James's and Julianna's courtship story and watch the wedding (link).

I actually think a few of the Staddon sons moved out together like a few of the Arndt boys. But I don’t think either group moved far from home. I feel like it’s more accepted among fundie families for a few if the boys go live together than daughters. 

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The 40 year old virgins are back explaining further about how they are preparing for meeting, courting, and marrying the perfect "girl".  But alas, always a groomsman, never a groom.  

(this doesn't look like the homestead; maybe it's the house where the oldest manboys live?)

Spoiler

 

 

 

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Neither of these two are married or have a degree in psychology (that we know of) but they’re founts of marriage wisdom? Yeah, ok. 🙄

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8 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Neither of these two are married or have a degree in psychology (that we know of) but they’re founts of marriage wisdom? Yeah, ok. 🙄

I have no idea who on earth would take marriage advice from a couple of 40 year old virgins. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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1 hour ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

The 40 year old virgins are back explaining further about how they are preparing for meeting, courting, and marrying the perfect "girl".  But alas, always a groomsman, never a groom.  

(this doesn't look like the homestead; maybe it's the house where the oldest manboys live?)

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Yes this video is why I was comparing them to the Staddons. The Staddon is very similar. I just watched the livestream to the Staddon wedding and the Staddon father had some similar views on marriage. And yet they've been able to marry off 4 of their sons and their daughter. All of the sons I think have gotten married older. The latest groom is 34.  At the wedding James said that he was able to be friends with women and I got the sense he was telling the truth. 

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2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Yes this video is why I was comparing them to the Staddons. The Staddon is very similar. I just watched the livestream to the Staddon wedding and the Staddon father had some similar views on marriage. And yet they've been able to marry off 4 of their sons and their daughter. All of the sons I think have gotten married older. The latest groom is 34.  At the wedding James said that he was able to be friends with women and I got the sense he was telling the truth. 

I see some similarities, but aren't the Staddons standard issue Baptist IBLP

I think part of the issue for the Arndts is that they are a fundie brand onto themselves. Aside from those two women who faithfully attend Pastor Rick's sermons every Sunday (and who are those ladies?), they don't belong to a group where they can meet like-minded women. (or "girls" as these very nearly middle-aged men refer to prospective brides).

Cathy and Rick come from Catholic families and Cathy's family is still very Catholic. I'm not convinced Cathy has totally abandoned Catholicism. While Rick clearly has, their religion is based around Rick and their family. Jesus, too of course, but everything is filtered by Rick and Rick alone. 

So while it's sounds like the manboys are looking for typical fundie women, typical fundie women are likely going to be very leery of their brand of religion. And more secular women are likely going to run as soon as the figure out what's going on with the family. In addition to all the other roadblocks they're facing, there's probably a dearth of acceptable women who would be willing to join the First Church of Rick.     

 

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18 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Yes this video is why I was comparing them to the Staddons. The Staddon is very similar. I just watched the livestream to the Staddon wedding and the Staddon father had some similar views on marriage. And yet they've been able to marry off 4 of their sons and their daughter. All of the sons I think have gotten married older. The latest groom is 34.  At the wedding James said that he was able to be friends with women and I got the sense he was telling the truth. 

I think the Staddons are a different case study. They seem like a genuine, sensitive family who love each other fondly. The boys don't have the macho "I'm gonna catch myself a wife" stance that the Morton boys display, for example. I do believe the boys were taught to respect women and keep themselves to the same purity standards, but they are also able to accept a spouse with her own individuality. The women that they ended up marrying are quite different from each other - say Kendalyn and Elizabeth.

I wouldn't say the Arndts seem particularly sensitive, rather extremely rigid. They have outlandish unrealistic expectations about what marriage itself entails. (Reality check: it involves a lot farting in bed). Their definition of an "acceptable" relationship is no narrow that it becomes practically impossible. They sound like they have no tolerance for personal flaws and this sounds like a disaster for a real-life relationship - so much of marriage is accepting each other as unique beings and not taking life too seriously. I have very little hope for the Arndt brothers unless they get serious counseling and deconstruction support. 

On the other hand, I have little concern for the Staddon marriages. They all seem like devoted and loving husbands.

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5 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

I think the Staddons are a different case study. They seem like a genuine, sensitive family who love each other fondly. The boys don't have the macho "I'm gonna catch myself a wife" stance that the Morton boys display, for example. I do believe the boys were taught to respect women and keep themselves to the same purity standards, but they are also able to accept a spouse with her own individuality. The women that they ended up marrying are quite different from each other - say Kendalyn and Elizabeth.

I wouldn't say the Arndts seem particularly sensitive, rather extremely rigid. They have outlandish unrealistic expectations about what marriage itself entails. (Reality check: it involves a lot farting in bed). Their definition of an "acceptable" relationship is no narrow that it becomes practically impossible. They sound like they have no tolerance for personal flaws and this sounds like a disaster for a real-life relationship - so much of marriage is accepting each other as unique beings and not taking life too seriously. I have very little hope for the Arndt brothers unless they get serious counseling and deconstruction support. 

On the other hand, I have little concern for the Staddon marriages. They all seem like devoted and loving husbands.

We got a little macho posturing from James talking about "leading" and hoping that Julianna would accept his leadership since he's the headship. I also remember hearing the Neely Staddon match was highly arranged and the bride wasn't sure she wanted to marry him.

The point of comparison of the Ardnts and Staddons isn't that they are exactly the same. Obviously there are many differences. The point is to see how two similar families compare and why one family has had more luck with the kids moving on. 

Edited by Bluebirdbluebell
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But at what point will rick begin to fear   his holy genes and great world view  will probably die out without any grands? A 42 year old man cannot marry a blushing 19 year old, not even in their cult? Why would they?  They have plenty of outsiders coming on their property and with the marriage  photopgraphy, the ministry etc.. plenty of opportunities. At some point rick needs to begin feeling a burning platform there. Thus nudging the men in the right direction?

Edited by ven
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1 hour ago, ven said:

But at what point will rick begin to fear   his holy genes and great world view  will probably die out without any grands? A 42 year old man cannot marry a blushing 19 year old, not even in their cult? Why would they?  They have plenty of outsiders coming on their property and with the marriage  photopgraphy, the ministry etc.. plenty of opportunities. At some point rick needs to begin feeling a burning platform there. Thus nudging the men in the right direction?

Your comment got me thinking, especially the part I bolded. If Rick is in sound-enough mind to notice his legacy is a sinking ship, and he began to encourage the boys to get into relationships, would the manboys suddenly become less picky about who they choose? In other words, if almighty Rick gave his approval to a particular woman, would the boys suddenly see her as marriageable, despite any “flaws”?

Just idle speculation of course.

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2 hours ago, GoddessOfVictory said:

Your comment got me thinking, especially the part I bolded. If Rick is in sound-enough mind to notice his legacy is a sinking ship, and he began to encourage the boys to get into relationships, would the manboys suddenly become less picky about who they choose? In other words, if almighty Rick gave his approval to a particular woman, would the boys suddenly see her as marriageable, despite any “flaws”?

Just idle speculation of course.

According to @wolfi_fox who may have insider knowledge Rick was the ones who broke up Luke and his girlfriend. He has a lot of influence.

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