Safe At Home 6: PIGS ARE FLYING! Luke is Engaged!

[Howl]

18 hours ago, wolfi_fox said:

@Bluebirdbluebell Word of mouth. Apparently happened around Valentine's Day. I doubt they are going to broadcast the breakup if you can even call it that. More like he was never going to officially commit to her.

*darkness warning*

If Rick did indeed decide to destroy that relationship and the adult son allowed it to happen, it's an extremely clear indicator of the incredibly unhealthy, abnormal dynamics in that family.  Perhaps Rick did it "pour encourager les autres." 

We joke and josh about the family. 

• so normal (!)
• the guys are so gosh darned cute (!)
• PENGUINS (!)
• Cathy's white shorts
• court reporters
• amazing wedding photography
• Vine Valley

but don't consider that there is likely a very, very dark aspect of suppression and mind control going on, overseen by Rick and enabled by Cathy. 

Any aspiration not about staying Safe at Home (and baseball) totally stunted early on; some part of every boy's psyche had to be destroyed to maintain Arndt Safe at Home hegemony.  

I honestly can't think of any other explanation for the Arndt monastery w/ 40-yr-old men sharing rooms with bunk beds and who knows whats going on with the daughter. What man interested in her could ever live up to a bazillion perfect brothers?

And not completing Vine Valley? WTAF.  WTAGDF. 

 

 

[Giraffe]

7 minutes ago, Howl said:

And not completing Vine Valley? WTAF.  WTAGDF. 

I can’t believe I’m about to defend the Arndts, but…I have sewing projects that will probably never get done. I started them and for whatever reason I’m probably not going to finish them. The difference between me not completing my crafts and the never-will-be-completed Vine Valley is I haven’t broadcast my art for all to see. 

[Smee]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

 

We joke and josh about the family. 

• so normal (!)
• the guys are so gosh darned cute (!)
• PENGUINS (!)
• Cathy's white shorts
• court reporters
• amazing wedding photography
• Vine Valley

but don't consider that there is likely a very, very dark aspect of suppression and mind control going on, overseen by Rick and enabled by Cathy.

 

What do you mean we don’t consider it? Are you reading the same Arndt threads that I am? That family is a cult and we will likely not know the truth of how they live until Rick dies and one breaks free. Although, having just watched House of Secrets about the Burari deaths, I’m not sure Rick dying would necessarily be enough.

[Howl]

6 hours ago, Giraffe said:

The difference between me not completing my crafts and the never-will-be-completed Vine Valley is I haven’t broadcast my art for all to see. 

Well, that and you haven't deeply involved a dozen captive people in your project as a collective life's work. 

I have totally given up on my sewing projects and only do necessary repairs these days and I'm OK with it. 

[Howl]

5 hours ago, Smee said:

Although, having just watched House of Secrets about the Burari deaths, I’m not sure Rick dying would necessarily be enough.

I just read a synopsis of House of Secrets; I see what you mean. 

And of course I've read all the Arndt threads over the years as we've s speculated about the endless mystery of the kidults who never leave home.  But that's the mystery -- we just don't know. The anodyne public persona obscures all clues as to what might really be going on. 

The possibility that Rick deliberately destroyed a budding relationship   provides a little window into how ugly things things might really be under that mantle of seemingly placid daily life.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Howl

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I've seen my BIL destroy any hope of a normal life.his daughter might have.   Until she was 31 she'd had one date when she was 16.  When the boy came to pick her up for the 2nd date my. BIL met him at the door, threatened him and told the boy never to call or see the daughter again.

BIL convinced his daughter that the boy was totally unsuitable and that it was really her idea and in her best interest to run him off.  He stopped any other boy from ever asking her out. BIL and wife went to see daughter every other weekend in college to ensure she didn't have a social/ dating life or friends.

At 31 while a medical resident she began seeing a fellow resident.  This went on for about 2 months.  BIL and wife flew out to see her.  Immediately after the visit daughter broke off the relationship (such as it was) and told the guy to leave her alone and never "bother her again."

Daughter is now 33 -- not seeing anyone, and as far as we can tell completely friendless.  BIL and wife are hovering helicopter parents (she's an only child). The 3 of them vacation together, which are the only vacays the daughter ever takes.  She's spent her whole life try to please her father and doing everything he wants, becoming his mini-me in the process -- same profession, likes, dislikes, reading choices, music choices, hobbies, sports, etc, etc, etc..  

People destroy their children's chances for dating/ marriage much more often than we think - sometime insidious, sometimes overt. I personally know of 2 instances in my small home town.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I've seen my BIL destroy any hope of a normal life.his daughter might have.   Until she was 31 she'd had one date when she was 16.  When the boy came to pick her up for the 2nd date my. BIL met him at the door, threatened him and told the boy never to call or see the daughter again.

BIL convinced his daughter that the boy was totally unsuitable and that it was really her idea and in her best interest to run him off.  He stopped any other boy from ever asking her out. BIL and wife went to see daughter every other weekend in college to ensure she didn't have a social/ dating life or friends.

At 31 while a medical resident she began seeing a fellow resident.  This went on for about 2 months.  BIL and wife flew out to see her.  Immediately after the visit daughter broke off the relationship (such as it was) and told the guy to leave her alone and never "bother her again."

Daughter is now 33 -- not seeing anyone, and as far as we can tell completely friendless.  BIL and wife are hovering helicopter parents (she's an only child). The 3 of them vacation together, which are the only vacays the daughter ever takes.  She's spent her whole life try to please her father and doing everything he wants, becoming his mini-me in the process -- same profession, likes, dislikes, reading choices, music choices, hobbies, sports, etc, etc, etc..  

People destroy their children's chances for dating/ marriage much more often than we think - sometime insidious, sometimes overt. I personally know of 2 instances in my small home town.

Have you tried to talk to her about it? Maybe giving her a book or two. I get when she was a child that wouldn't be appropriate, but if she's 33 now, it might be helpful to try to reach out. Even just call and see how she is doing. 

[AmazonGrace]

14 hours ago, Howl said:

*darkness warning*

If Rick did indeed decide to destroy that relationship and the adult son allowed it to happen, it's an extremely clear indicator of the incredibly unhealthy, abnormal dynamics in that family.  Perhaps Rick did it "pour encourager les autres." 

At this point I think he probably wouldn't even need to try that hard, it's red flags galore regardless. Hell, he might even try to encourage one of his boys to get a wifey and it could easily  come across as a red flag. Like a spider inviting a fly to check out the etchings in his web. "See here, little lady, we have a bunch of homeward bound eternal bachelors with an aging mother to take care of them all, so hey girl, you at all interested in taking on the job? Pretty please? My boys need a good woman in their life. It's God's will. We're all stuck here at home and happy as clams, and not at all like a death cult.  How's your cooking?"

 

[Howl]

9 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Daughter is now 33 -- not seeing anyone, and as far as we can tell completely friendless.  BIL and wife are hovering helicopter parents (she's an only child). The 3 of them vacation together, which are the only vacays the daughter ever takes.

This was incredibly painful to read, but it made me curious.  What type of medicine does she practice?  Presumably she sees patients all day, so at least has a lot of human interaction.  Is she empathetic towards her patients? 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

11 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Have you tried to talk to her about it? Maybe giving her a book or two. I get when she was a child that wouldn't be appropriate, but if she's 33 now, it might be helpful to try to reach out.

We haven't as in addition to ruining her personal life BIL pretty much turned her against us.  We have practically no relationship with her. Mr Dress is her uncle, but she blows him off in the same way BIL does -- smirky amused contemptuous tolerance .

Mr Dress is the younger son (only 2 children in the family).  His parents regarded BIL as the golden child who was absolutely perfectly perfect in every way.  Mr Dress was treated as the much, much much lesser, 'you'll never be as (fill in the blank) as your brother" child. 

I'm merely the aunt by marriage and BIL dislikes me because I'm girly -- that is I wear make-up and perfume -- so I was a very very bad influence on his daughter. BIL is still ticked she wasn't a boy -- but that's a whole 'nother can of really weird. Niece is convinced BIL can do no wrong and is an absolutely perfectly perfect dad.  As in she's still doing everything she can to please him and get his love and respect.

I seriously doubt she ever will.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

 

4 hours ago, Howl said:

What type of medicine does she practice? 

She sees patients as a resident, but doesn't like at it. At. All.  She wants to go into research (not sure of what).  BIL also hated to see patients so when into research and administration.

I said she was a mini-BIL

Edited March 9, 2022 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[nokidsmom]

19 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

People destroy their children's chances for dating/ marriage much more often than we think - sometime insidious, sometimes overt. I personally know of 2 instances in my small home town.

Yes, it happens more than people think, I experienced it.  It was mostly subtle but sometimes not.  My parents, mother especially, tried to get in the middle of things with me and Mr. No.   They also tried to stick their noses into my sisters' dating life but both actually kept their dating under the radar until they found their husbands.   Then the meddling began.  My one BIL was OK with them because he let them have their way, my parents.   My other BIL absolutely hated my parents because of the way they tried to manipulate my younger sister.   

And let's not overlook the possibility that it wasn't just Rick getting involved in things but roped in other members of the family like Cathy and the siblings.  My mother had her "ally" in one sister so younger sister had to push back against both of them.   My mother is gone but "ally" sister continues on and it's largely the source of their current estrangement. 

On 3/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, Howl said:

If Rick did indeed decide to destroy that relationship and the adult son allowed it to happen, it's an extremely clear indicator of the incredibly unhealthy, abnormal dynamics in that family.  Perhaps Rick did it "pour encourager les autres."

If this did indeed happen, yes, it is extremely unhealthy and I find it plausible that Rick got in the middle somehow and either the adult son allowed it to the point that he broke it off because Dad or girlfriend got scared because Dad.  Yes the Arndts seem like such a close loving family but honestly with 14 kids this enmeshed with Mom and Dad, with several of them now in their 30s, this does not come off as normal either.    

Edited March 9, 2022 by nokidsmom

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’ve probably talked about this before, maybe even on this thread. But I had elderly cousins that I thought were very nice and I always liked them. They died a few years ago. But my mom has told me their life story. They were identical twins treated totally as a unit. Never as separate individuals. They did everything together and they were the only children of their parents. Their father was extremely controlling. He didn’t allow them to date and they always lived at home. I believe one of the twins did actually date someone when she was older. Like late 20s or 30s. But their father and his controlling ways put an end to that. It’s sad because both of them seemed to love children and I really think they would have made good moms. But by the time their parents died, they were past menopause. At least they had each other. But they were pretty enmeshed but that’s another story. Lol

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:58 PM, nokidsmom said:

Yes, it happens more than people think, I experienced it.  It was mostly subtle but sometimes not.  My parents, mother especially, tried to get in the middle of things with me and Mr. No.   They also tried to stick their noses into my sisters' dating life but both actually kept their dating under the radar until they found their husbands.   Then the meddling began.  My one BIL was OK with them because he let them have their way, my parents.   My other BIL absolutely hated my parents because of the way they tried to manipulate my younger sister.   

And let's not overlook the possibility that it wasn't just Rick getting involved in things but roped in other members of the family like Cathy and the siblings.  My mother had her "ally" in one sister so younger sister had to push back against both of them.   My mother is gone but "ally" sister continues on and it's largely the source of their current estrangement. 

If this did indeed happen, yes, it is extremely unhealthy and I find it plausible that Rick got in the middle somehow and either the adult son allowed it to the point that he broke it off because Dad or girlfriend got scared because Dad.  Yes the Arndts seem like such a close loving family but honestly with 14 kids this enmeshed with Mom and Dad, with several of them now in their 30s, this does not come off as normal either.    

According to fundie wiki,

the oldest is 40 something and the next oldest is almost 40, the next six kids are in their 30s, then five kids in their twenties, then the last one is in his teens. 

[mango_fandango]

I always hate that pop culture trope of dads being ridiculously protective over their daughters and not allowing them to date etc. It’s so sexist and gross.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

I always hate that pop culture trope of dads being ridiculously protective over their daughters and not allowing them to date etc. It’s so sexist and gross.

It always makes me think the overprotective dad did some horrible shit in his teens and assumes all teen boys are like him. It’s a bad look.

[0 kids n not countin]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

According to fundie wiki,

the oldest is 40 something and the next oldest is almost 40, the next six kids are in their 30s, then five kids in their twenties, then the last one is in his teens. 

I believe next January 2023 the youngest will be 20 and the 3rd son will be 40 (in July 2023). I know way too much about the man boys. 🤦‍♀️

Edited March 11, 2022 by 0 kids n not countin

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It always makes me think the overprotective dad did some horrible shit in his teens and assumes all teen boys are like him. It’s a bad look.

I never knew the details, but my mom said one time that Dad was "wild" in his younger days.    I knew he had smoked in high school and cut classes but that was it.  Whatever else, who knows, but given what passed as "wild" in our little insular household, I didn't think it was "wild" by any typical (meaning outside of FOO) standards.

But whatever it was, it was clear that Dad viewed any guys who came calling with suspicion.   I recently learned from one of my sisters, that she dated far more in her 20s than I knew because she pretty much had to lie about it.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, nokidsmom said:

I never knew the details, but my mom said one time that Dad was "wild" in his younger days.    I knew he had smoked in high school and cut classes but that was it.  Whatever else, who knows, but given what passed as "wild" in our little insular household, I didn't think it was "wild" by any typical (meaning outside of FOO) standards.

But whatever it was, it was clear that Dad viewed any guys who came calling with suspicion.   I recently learned from one of my sisters, that she dated far more in her 20s than I knew because she pretty much had to lie about it.  

Sounds like my dad. My mom was a good little Christian girl and my dad seemed like a bad boy. Because he had long hair, smoked, and drove fast cars. That was a bad boy to my mom 🤣

[GuineaPigCourtship]

My parents worried that I would sneak around or cut them off if they were pushy about who I dated. They gritted their teeth and said something nice about EVERY guy. Even after breaking up they held their counsel unless asked in case we got back together. I always appreciated it. My mom did take me aside a week before my wedding and say if I changed my mind they would take care of cancelling everything no questions asked, which was an incredible show of support. They do like my husband and get on well with him, but didn't want me to feel trapped because it was a short engagement for our area.

[nokidsmom]

12 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

Even after breaking up they held their counsel unless asked in case we got back together. I always appreciated it.

This reminds me when a friend of mine who was spitting mad that her adult son's long time gf broke up with him.   She was criticizing his now ex to me and another friend when other friend pointed out that she hoped that these criticisms were not being shared with the son.  Because the other friend had a similar situation where she had to eat her words, because the ex-gf she criticized years before was now her daughter-in-law.   

My nephew's long term gf just recently broke up with him and I had to remind the above to my sister who was going on about now ex-gf's "flaws".   Exes can and do come back into the picture.

[Black Aliss]

If they never marry, that's 140, give or take a dozen or so, fewer right-wing fundies on this planet.

[Jrodseyeliner]

54 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

If they never marry, that's 140, give or take a dozen or so, fewer right-wing fundies on this planet.

Well now there is a positive spin on things!! 😂😂😂😂😂 

[Petronella]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:53 PM, wolfi_fox said:

@Bluebirdbluebell Word of mouth. Apparently happened around Valentine's Day. I doubt they are going to broadcast the breakup if you can even call it that. More like he was never going to officially commit to her.

 

I say good for her. She is better off away from the kidults.

Word of mouth from whom? 

[usedbicycle]

I also know some pretty controlling parents but they don't have 14 kids! It seems impossible to exert that much control on that many adults. Most fundie families have a few kids go rogue/cut off ties, or else they soften their rules over the years to accommodate their childrens' evolving standards. Especially with the youngest.

The fact that none of this has happened with the Ardnts makes me think that the children themselves have become Rick's enforcers. Mark and Paul seem really deep in kool-aid in the prayer meeting videos. I can see them being just as controlling as Rick was towards them. They keep each other in check, that's for sure.