Bates 29: Marrying Off the Sons

[CaptainFunderpants]

4 hours ago, Mom to Nell said:

Thanks for the recap @llucie especially for those of us that don't Facebook! I laughed through the recap because it sounded like they were all snarking on each other. Even Chad with the "when they are in town" comment.

And Tiffany wearing jeans? Let's see how long that lasts!

 

Part of me thinks that as long as Lawson's boner is happy, the jeans will stay.

It just depends on whether he likes the thought of a demure, submissive wife more than he likes looking at her legs and butt.

[just_ordinary]

@rebeccawriter01 I mean he could very well been laid off if he did a bad job or showed unacceptable behaviour by the company guidelines. I think he left on his own account but it’s perfectly possible he was laid off even though the company was hiring. 
 

I am extremely sad about Zach. He and Whitney were the poster couple for slowly distancing from the most ridiculous rules. Still a 100% Fundie but at least with their own minds about it. This could have been the door to more development. But I completely understand that working shifts is annoying - I would def. try to change that- especially if my job doesn’t pay extremely well.

To me it always sounded as if Whitney loved to portrait herself as the proud and strong wife of a man of duty. But with for children and a job on the side (even though they have employees now) it’s definitely nice to have the other parent around more easily. I do wonder if the last year might have brought some financial cuts to the police in their area? Or maybe he was forced to go through a “leftist/communist program” - you know some real training how to deal with people, no shooting straight away anymore..... 

Maybe other colleagues and/or partner made comments about/to them?

It will be interesting if “blue lives matter” is still something from now on or if they just don’t mention anything now or if they make the transition to the more allegedly hardcore ????

———Question: what’s with those white hearts? Is it really a thing? What is it’s meaning? I have seen it pointed out but all explanations are pretty muddy, so I am a bit hesitant.

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

@rebeccawriter01 I mean he could very well been laid off if he did a bad job or showed unacceptable behaviour by the company guidelines. I think he left on his own account but it’s perfectly possible he was laid off even though the company was hiring. 
 

 

It's possible, but two things tell me improbable: 

1. Nabisco was one of the big employers for Knox and Anderson counties at that time. They basically fired nobody at that point in time because there were not enough people to fill the positions they had open. One of my uncles was showing up late, drunk, and/or high three out of five days a week. A cousin was made a lead supervisor after the fourth complaint of sexual harassment. I wouldn't want to know what Gil would have done that would have made it possible for him to get the boot. 

If he was fired or encouraged to quit before being fired, I would think he would not be flip flopping on the story. The flip flopping is where you get caught in your lie. He would have already had his lie ready and continued to say it. 

2. Before they had a show of their own and were working on the reputation/image management of the family, he would say in interviews and on other shows that he quit to spend more time with his children. Around the time the family brand took a bit of a hit for his comments about not having health insurance and not wanting to take public assistance but using the hospital ER as a free clinic, some of those original stories changed, including this one. He then attempted to change the narrative to being that he was laid off during cut backs at the company and that he opened the tree business to support his family and teach the boys skills. Zach was quoted as saying that Gil's father (Papa Bill) had always encouraged Gil to have a skill/trade to fall back on and that Gil now understood why after he was "laid off." 

Many of us would like to quit our jobs and do something that gave us more free time and flexibility. While I don't think it was the wisest thing to do or most responsible, Gil did what a lot of people want to do and quit. He managed to start a company that paid the bills for a while and wrangled his family into the reality television world that makes them even more comfortable. 

My big issue is the constant lying from this family - whether it is for a story element or plot on the show or to hide behaviors that might make audiences squeamish about them. He's given two different stories on the topic of his job at Nabisco. One is a lie and one is the truth. I simply feel it is better that he tells the truth and owns up to it.  

[Melissa1977]

10 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Many of us would like to quit our jobs and do something that gave us more free time and flexibility. While I don't think it was the wisest thing to do or most responsible, Gil did what a lot of people want to do and quit. He managed to start a company that paid the bills for a while

To make ends meet, he needed free child labour and his family had no health insurance and wasn't properly fed (from old Bates videos, they ate as little and awful as Rodrigues). Yes, many of us would like to quit out jobs, but feed our kids is a priority.

[WiseGirl]

10 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

managed to start a company that paid the bills for a while and wran

He didn't pay all the bills. Lawson provided money for the family for a few years.

The flip flopping and lies drive me nuts. Not very Christian of them.

[rebeccawriter01]

12 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

To make ends meet, he needed free child labour and his family had no health insurance and wasn't properly fed (from old Bates videos, they ate as little and awful as Rodrigues). Yes, many of us would like to quit out jobs, but feed our kids is a priority.

I agree. Most of us would put our children's safety and well being first. He could have started a tree service while working in sales at Nabisco. He could have started one with friends rather than his sons who were too young to deal with the risks. He likes to tout the debt free stuff (less than Jim Bob), but he was simply mortgaging his children's futures for his own desires to work fewer hours, not have a heathen boss, seem more important, etc. 

Back during the days of the interviews like My (Extra) Ordinary Family on Nightline or United Bates of America, the children spoke about how dangerous tree work was and how Gil had written them each a letter in case he died. Michaela said she kept hers in her hope chest. Every time he has surgery (no matter how minor), he's telling everyone he loves them and where the whatever things are located. One thing that is never mentioned is life insurance. What would have happened if he fell out of a tree and died or if he had a heart attack when Kelly Jo was at home with the 19 kids? 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 minute ago, WiseGirl said:

He didn't pay all the bills. Lawson provided money for the family for a few years.

The flip flopping and lies drive me nuts. Not very Christian of them.

Lawson did provide money. However, when Gil first quit Nabisco, Lawson was like 12 or so at most. In an article that was posted in 2009, he had been gone from Nabisco for more than five years at that time. That would have been 2004, making Zach 16ish at the time and the only male old enough to work. Even if Lawson was mowing lawns, it is doubtful he made enough to make a real difference. 

My guess is that Gil did some other kind of work between Nabisco and trees. I believe he originally started doing a lawncare business and that evolved into tree work when one or more of the customers needed that service. As trees became more of the income earner and took more time, Lawson took on the yard/lawn customers as his own business. Zach worked with Gil while Nathan and Trace would pick up and clean up branches/debris. 

 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Every time he has surgery (no matter how minor), he's telling everyone he loves them and where the whatever things are located.

What a lovely way to keep children anxious, constantly being reminded thay can lose their father. Bates are masters of manipulation.

[nokidsmom]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:21 PM, HereticHick said:

True, but giving up a job with a pension benefits seems incredibly stupid to me--and if Zach has any interest in running for office again, it would have been smarted to stay in law enforcement.  Zach has plenty of brothers who could have taken over the tree business.

I don't understand these people.

Count me as being a bit surprised that Zach quit.  I get that shift work is a pain for both the worker and the family (been there) but the above is exactly what I was thinking:  if Zach wants to give running for office another go, he would be better off remaining in law enforcement.  

Who knows, maybe there's a bigger plan here but Zach quitting in favor of the tree business sounds too much like his dad doing the same years before.   And we know how that went: Gil became a grifter extraordinaire. 

Also I think that Gil and Kelly are extremely controlling and aren't giving up that control easily, even with their married kids in spite of all the talk to the contrary.  At least when Zach was in law enforcement, he was not controlled by his dad, his living was not dependent on a grifting and manipulative parent.   This move seems to put him back under the family's control. 

[Tangy Bee]

So Zach leaves a stable job with benefits that helped with his growing family. Trying to respect his decision but I still think it's a slap in the face to all parents who work long hours to support a family....and their kids turned out just fine. Hope their house is at least paid for. Thanks to younger siblings getting married, the show will probably provide income for another year or two. 

[Howl]

On 4/10/2021 at 2:06 AM, Melissa1977 said:

They live in a rural town. I doubt police job is dangerous. Bad things happen, but I bet the safety issue was used by Bates to put pressure on Zach.

Police do a lot of shift work, which can be hard on the person working a night shift and on the spouse and harder to parent when the kids come along. 

 Of course, there's always the possibility of wimmins workin' on the force, so there's that. 

[browngrl]

this is pure speculation so feel free to point out why it is nuts

Since the insurrection and since the large cash settlements to people killed by the police I suspect that police departments are looking to decrease their liability by making it look like they are trying to change by weeding out the bad apples. Fundies seem to be by and large Trumpers and a lot of them are  Q anon people. I suspect that Zach believes in the insurrection and doesn't believe that BLM so he might have wanted to get ahead of any possible repercussions (even if it was just a slap on the wrist for show) and quit. Steve Maxwell left his job because of trivial contact with a female supervisor and it may be that Zach took umbrage for an equally  trivial amount of scrutiny. Then again, maybe he did something bad and wanted to get ahead of that by quitting.

I have no proof of course but there always seems to be something a bit fishy about fundie actions.

 

[Denim Jumper]

Thoughts:

1. Lawson was quite handsy for Bates courtship: hand on her leg, hand around her waist...

2. I’m rather rather risk-averse, so it makes me nervous to see Zach quit the police force for him and Whitney to both essentially be self-employed. Granted, Mr. Denim and I do not gave the safety net of a Bates child, so we hedged our bets by both becoming civil servants, but it seems so risky to not have one income-earner with a pension plan or health benefits... 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Denim Jumper

[Johannah]

1 hour ago, browngrl said:

this is pure speculation so feel free to point out why it is nuts

Since the insurrection and since the large cash settlements to people killed by the police I suspect that police departments are looking to decrease their liability by making it look like they are trying to change by weeding out the bad apples. Fundies seem to be by and large Trumpers and a lot of them are  Q anon people. I suspect that Zach believes in the insurrection and doesn't believe that BLM so he might have wanted to get ahead of any possible repercussions (even if it was just a slap on the wrist for show) and quit. Steve Maxwell left his job because of trivial contact with a female supervisor and it may be that Zach took umbrage for an equally  trivial amount of scrutiny. Then again, maybe he did something bad and wanted to get ahead of that by quitting.

I have no proof of course but there always seems to be something a bit fishy about fundie actions.

 

I would guess most of the Anderson County police force is Trump supporters and that they’re likely not at all trying to weed any of them out. 

[nokidsmom]

2 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

2. I’m rather rather risk-averse, so it makes me nervous to see Zach quit the police force for him and Whitney to both essentially be self-employed. Granted, Mr. Denim and I do not gave the safety net of a Bates child, so we hedged our bets by both becoming civil servants, but it seems so risky to not have one income-earner with a pension plan or health benefits... 

Both Mr. No and I are pretty risk adverse and, with the exception of a year and half where he was self employed and I was doing contract work (the ONE time we decided to take some big chances), most of the time both of us have had regular jobs with benefits even if those jobs didn't always pay much.  That one time was when we were in our 30s and because Mr. No found that he didn't like being self employed as much as he thought he would was why he only did it for 18 months.   He was really happy to a full time job with benefits after that period. I was still doing the contract work but having one job in the household with benefits was a real relief.

[Peaches and Pears]

Maybe Zach quit because the Bates Sister's Boutique is doing so well?

[rebeccawriter01]

4 hours ago, Johannah said:

I would guess most of the Anderson County police force is Trump supporters and that they’re likely not at all trying to weed any of them out. 

It is very conservative there. I was recently visiting to look at a potential investment property and avoided family because of COVID and politics. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Isn't Whitney currently pregnant with #4? Shift work would be terrible on the family with a gaggle of kids - nobody helping out Whit and Zach not able to see the kids as much. Lots of people do it, but with the boutique and the show income I could see why they might want something more flexible. Hope they didn't make a big mistake, though.

[WiseGirl]

Call me a cynic but...the last Tweet for the tree service was 2013. Same with the Facebook page....surely there is an activewebsite somewhere, right? Insurance? Pffft follow the Gil and Kelly plan...maybe he can go to work for Kelton if the tree service doesn't work out.

[OHFL2009]

49 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

Call me a cynic but...the last Tweet for the tree service was 2013. Same with the Facebook page....surely there is an activewebsite somewhere, right? Insurance? Pffft follow the Gil and Kelly plan...maybe he can go to work for Kelton if the tree service doesn't work out.

Carlin made a comment during the episode that Gil was behind the times and only advertised in places like the Yellow Pages. Maybe with Whitney's social media experience, Zach thinks he can bring the tree business into the 21st century. But I've found when looking for similar services that a lot of companies don't have websites, and they don't have much online presence. We were looking for a landscaper to help with pulling out some plants we didn't like and replacing them. After looking online and getting nowhere, we asked neighbors for recommendations, and all the companies they suggested were legit companies, properly licensed, but very few had much of an online presence. I think most of their business comes from word of mouth and recommendations from current clients and they don't want to spend money on a marketing person when their business does fine without it. And at least where I live, they must all be busy because of the 4 companies we called, only 2 called back and one of those 2 never showed to meet with us and give us a quote.

[fluffernutter]

We moved into an older house this year that had several large trees that needed to be removed. One company had a four month waiting list, one wasn't taking new clients due to being so busy, and the third was able to help us in two months. OMG it cost so much more than we realized. As we are finding out with all home repairs. Anyway, they all had plenty of work. Maybe it's not such a bad move for him. ?‍♀️

[Jigsaw3]

I think it will really depend on how much control Zach has in the tree business.

If Gil essentially signs it over to Zach so that Zach is running it and controls everything, including the finances and booking, Zach could do very well. He seems to have initiative and a work ethic. If Zach is just going to be Gil's employee and gofer it won't work out so well. The worst case would be if Gil controls the finances and Zach's salary: then Zach and Whit would be beholden to Gil and Kelly for every bite in their kids' mouths and G&K could try to control every move (no more pants for Whit and the girls!)

There is potential for it to be a moneyspinner. @OHFL2009 and @fluffernutter just pointed out that people are in desperate need of tree services. If the tree work isn't enough, Zach could branch out into landscaping & yard work. Plus, Chad has his home reno business; Kelton and Bobby run a very successful plumbing business; and Evan is finishing up an electrician apprenticeship: those are all very complementary businesses and the referrals from one to another could really kickstart a full roster of clients. (And if Whit got seriously into realty, she would also be a big source of referrals from her clients.) Plus, the younger boys are a good source of labour as they grow.

But it all comes back to control: is Zach controlling this? Or is Gil?

[RosyDaisy]

I think this all boils down to Zach being more available for filming.

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, RosyDaisy said:

I think this all boils down to Zach being more available for filming.

I wonder how much time filming actually takes. I know in the scripted tv world you shoot about one episode a week, so on a standard 22 episode season actors only work on a show for about 22 weeks. How long does it take to film episodes in the reality tv world? I did notice that Bates have much longer seasons than the Duggars do.

Based off one of Carlin’s Insta stories around a month ago it seems like most of the interviews are all done over 1-2 days. 
 

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I wonder how much time filming actually takes. I know in the scripted tv world you shoot about one episode a week, so on a standard 22 episode season actors only work on a show for about 22 weeks. How long does it take to film episodes in the reality tv world? I did notice that Bates have much longer seasons than the Duggars do.

Based off one of Carlin’s Insta stories around a month ago it seems like most of the interviews are all done over 1-2 days. 
 

I think it would add up over time. Production might be reluctant to shoot footage of Whitney without Zach simply because Zach is the one who is a Bates. From what I remember from my friends who work in the production side of things, For every minute of a show you see, it is 60-90 minutes of shooting. That doesn't include the process of getting things set up like lighting, audio, etc. 

There have been numerous times that he hasn't been in attendance at family gatherings or holidays because of work. While there have been a few bits of footage of him in uniform or driving a patrol car, he's probably not able to shoot footage of him actually working simply because of the issue with clearance from everyone. I know on the day the production team did the new intro and family picture, they had to photoshop him in the pic because he was at work. Now they area starting to travel more (ski trips, beach trips, little trips to Gatlinburg over a weekend, etc. He's the only one who was not working for himself and wouldn't always be able to make those trips. 

I doubt it is the only reason that he would have to want to quit his job, but it is probably ammunition for Whitney and/or Kelly Jo to talk about how everyone else is available. With school and his apprenticeship, Evan has a less flexible schedule too. However, the other sons-in-law all make their own hours. Plus with the way these siblings all talk about Chad, you can bet that it has been brought up that Chad left his job to work on his own and now can spend time with his family any time he wants. 

On a personal note, my father worked in retail for the majority of his career. His siblings worked in jobs that were similar but had more regular hours than a grocery store where he worked overnight or weekends. There were many family events where he was absent and my mother was making the excuses why he wasn't there. I found out as an adult that many of his siblings and her siblings (even her grandmother) would pull her aside and ask where he really was and if there was trouble in their marriage.  

While it is good that Zach is stepping into an already established company rather than starting from scratch, it is still risky. I hope that he is ready to hustle and get paying customers. If any of the grown kids are going to learn from Gil and Kelly Jo's mistakes, it would be Zach and Michaela, who as the oldest two probably sacrificed more than their younger siblings.