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Botkin 2: Geoff Tried to Advise Trump


Coconut Flan
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This is exactly why I always wish for boys to be born to fundie parents. They have way more freedom and choices because they can make their own money. He could leave the compound after they get married and he won’t have to rely on daddy or his spouse for financial support. And he will have a brother who is already out if he needs some emotional support. All while the girls sit at home in their 30s waiting for a husband who will never come. 

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4 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Do I spy an elder Bot-son along the back wall of windows, just visible over the groin-to-be’s right shoulder? 

Good eyes! He sure looks like Isaac.

 

 

Edited by LurkerOverThePond
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45 minutes ago, Howl said:

Will Geoff attempt to bloviate at the wedding?

I can’t for a minute begin to imagine that she would stand for hours upon hours of lectures like David and Nadia’s wedding. The good thing for her about marrying in from outside the patriarchy circles is that she doesn’t come with any overblown awe and reverence of Geoff. I still worry that she has no idea what she’s getting into, but somehow I think she’ll be able to hold her own against him, if needed. 
 

48 minutes ago, Howl said:

Plus the Botkinetti spinsters seeing the brothers marry accomplished and somewhat worldly (by their standards) women while they languish at home with nothing new to offer the world...

I do feel for them. It has to be hard hearing about how you should marry young all your life, how you should prepare for marriage and motherhood, for none of it to happen, and then to watch so many people in your house of cards come crashing down. I hope they’ve spent some time reading about and listening to former SAHDs’ stories and considering how what they helped support was used in a great deal of abuse. And how it might have been used against them in ways they might not yet see. 

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Except that most fundie boys don't seem to leave. And when they do leave, they don't necessarily become better people. Look at Jacob Wilson, who's still sprouting right wing propaganda.  Considering Lucas's business, it's unlikely much good will come from his leaving. 

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5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Except that most fundie boys don't seem to leave. And when they do leave, they don't necessarily become better people. Look at Jacob Wilson, who's still sprouting right wing propaganda.  Considering Lucas's business, it's unlikely much good will come from his leaving. 

I think women are more vocal about leaving. And that’s why you think more women leave than men. I can name some men who are no longer fundie. Kelly Brown Bradrick’s husband probably isn’t since he left her. Emily Case Brower’s husband isn’t. Lena’s husband “Taliban Tony” isn’t either. I think both Jacob and Jonah Wilson are no longer fundie and took a couple of fundie girls with them. Rachel Wilson definitely doesn’t seem fundie so I’m guessing her husband probably isn’t either. Ethan Plath is no longer fundie and neither is Micah. It’s been much easier on Ethan and Micah than Moriah to leave. Daniel Keller is no longer fundie and I’m betting Rebekah Keller’s first husband is no longer fundie too. 

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6 hours ago, Columbia said:

I can’t for a minute begin to imagine that she would stand for hours upon hours of lectures like David and Nadia’s wedding. The good thing for her about marrying in from outside the patriarchy circles is that she doesn’t come with any overblown awe and reverence of Geoff. I still worry that she has no idea what she’s getting into, but somehow I think she’ll be able to hold her own against him, if needed. 
 

I do feel for them. It has to be hard hearing about how you should marry young all your life, how you should prepare for marriage and motherhood, for none of it to happen, and then to watch so many people in your house of cards come crashing down. I hope they’ve spent some time reading about and listening to former SAHDs’ stories and considering how what they helped support was used in a great deal of abuse. And how it might have been used against them in ways they might not yet see. 

I remember feeling a pang of ... not pity, but "aw, poor kid(s)" when I saw the Botkinettes playing harp before the Serven-Loomis wedding.  Beautiful young women, obviously pretty self-confident and spirited (the way they kind of put on a little show of getting to the front of the church and waving at folks at the back.  Just 20-somethings being 20-somethings at a wedding.  

But then they ascended the stage-y thing to perform for the pre-bridal entrance music and their faces kinda fell.  Beyond concentrating on playing their music well.  They glared a little in the general direction of the people coming down the center aisle (grannies, et.al.,) and just looked woebegone.

I think they already kinda knew they'd be even old than Rebecca Loomis (29!!!) when/if they got married. NB: Not that 29 is too old to marry.  I know someone very well who did that [me].  But after being raised to Be A Wife And Mother, Rebecca was forced into her mother's role as child care provider while Cheryl Serven continued to birth out kids she seemed too tired to have. Familiar?

Oh, and then Rebecca wound up having fertility issues including several miscarriages and rough times in at least two out of three pregnancies and births.  That might not have been the case had she been allowed to marry earlier. 

Sorry for the derailing of the topic.  Rebecca and her big ole ginger husband and their kids have always held a special place in my otherwise hard heart.

Edited by MamaJunebug
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21 hours ago, Columbia said:

A new picture of the happy couple (at a lovely super spreader event.) Can you imagine Geoff’s reaction to that hair color? I wonder if her two future sisters-in-law sent her a copy of their Reclaiming Beauty study guide. 
 

I also wonder if Lucas had to jump through hoops and write papers for her father, or if they just met on their own and dated like heathens. That 200-year-plan is getting a little shaky, Geoff. 

 

Wow, great find!  Where'd you spot this?  I see it has the trex arms logo on it but haven't found it on their pages.

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3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think women are more vocal about leaving. And that’s why you think more women leave than men. I can name some men who are no longer fundie. Kelly Brown Bradrick’s husband probably isn’t since he left her. Emily Case Brower’s husband isn’t. Lena’s husband “Taliban Tony” isn’t either. I think both Jacob and Jonah Wilson are no longer fundie and took a couple of fundie girls with them. Rachel Wilson definitely doesn’t seem fundie so I’m guessing her husband probably isn’t either. Ethan Plath is no longer fundie and neither is Micah. It’s been much easier on Ethan and Micah than Moriah to leave. Daniel Keller is no longer fundie and I’m betting Rebekah Keller’s first husband is no longer fundie too. 

Jacob Wilson is still extremely right wing though. In some ways it would be better if he was fundie. Now he's just an angry young man. Since Lucas Botkin is very religious gun dealer, leaving his parents is a good step, but I doubt much will change after he gets married. 

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14 hours ago, Columbia said:

I’m pretty sure he’s the primary income generator for the family. Even if Geoff and Victoria don’t approve of her, I think they’ll be careful to keep from ostracizing them


I think this is true, though I also think the reverse is true to an extent. I'm not sure the business could exist without the family, and I'm almost certain it wouldn't have gotten off the ground without the odd mix of skills (such as they are) the respective Botkins (and adjacent families) brought to the table.

Lucas supposedly started TRex in the garage using a toaster oven. For most hobbyists, that's about where it would have stayed. Making Kydex products isn't rocket science, it's a material that's generally pretty easy to work with, which is why you can find them all day long on places like eBay, generally cheaper than what TRex charges. And the reason they're on eBay is because your average dude in a garage somewhere doesn't want to fuck with designing a website, finding a host, processing payments, promoting the site, developing a brand, having a social media presence, etc., not to mention filling the orders when they come in (and needing to do enough of them to justify all of the aforementioned things).

For Lucas, he had a family that already had experience with online sales, knew how to design websites, write ad copy, had done professional photography and film work, live on a large piece of land where he could set up production facilities without worrying about buying/renting a building lot, and were there to provide a large pool of general labor he was able to call on during rush times in the early days before he could afford as many full time employees. All things that make a small business sink or swim as it's getting off the ground. And in the case of the Botkins, they were strangely suited for a lot of the particular tasks (such as Isaac allegedly doctoring some of the shooting vids Lucas posts to social media).

I definitely agree that Geoff and Victoria are putting up with things from Lucas they never would have tolerated in the old days, by virtue of the fact that Lucas is the only member of the family to hit on a truly marketable idea, and they struggled for enough years prior to that to know that they're screwed without it.

Lucas, for his part, would probably have a bitch of a time extracting himself and the business from the extended family. Aside from the fact that I don't think he's the sole owner, pulling up stakes and setting up somewhere outside the compound would probably cost a fortune, between needing a new location, lost production during the moving process, and loss of his existing support system and business structure.

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Very insightful, @AnnaSofia.  And the successful home-based business is the essence of a successful fundy family, and provides some serious cred in that world. 

The land also gives them a place to blast off thousands of rounds of ammo and make videos about it. 

Adding in the new family member who is an engineer and really really smart could be a huge bonus to the business, even if she continues with her regular paying job.

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12 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Wow, great find!  Where'd you spot this?  I see it has the trex arms logo on it but haven't found it on their pages.

Lucas’ Instagram page. It looks like it was back in February. 

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8 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

I definitely agree that Geoff and Victoria are putting up with things from Lucas they never would have tolerated in the old days, by virtue of the fact that Lucas is the only member of the family to hit on a truly marketable idea, and they struggled for enough years prior to that to know that they're screwed without it.

It sounds like they got exactly what they wanted (the economically independent, multi-generational family unit,) and are going to have to live with it to the end, whether they like it or not. So karmic. 

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Great analysis, @AnnaSofia

12 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

I definitely agree that Geoff and Victoria are putting up with things from Lucas they never would have tolerated in the old days, by virtue of the fact that Lucas is the only member of the family to hit on a truly marketable idea, and they struggled for enough years prior to that to know that they're screwed without it.

If Geoff has needed or still needs home care, given the reports of a long-term illness, Victoria & the daughters would be providing that. They'd be doing so in addition to their handling of general household duties as well as the girls' (unpaid?) labor on t-Rex Arms, babysitting their brothers' kids, or whatever else they get stuck with. The Botkin family business model would probably crash to the ground without the daughters' work.

I can't see the prospective daughter-in-law (Lucas' fiancée) carrying out those care or home duties on a regular basis, particularly if she's actually got paying work as a qualified professional in her field. Given the long history of hypocrisy among the Botkins and their fellow travelers in talibangelical circles, it's highly likely Geoff will ignore all of the ungodly traits of his new DIL in favor of having steady income streams from her and Lucas. 

Has there ever been a photo of Elizabeth & Anna Sofia wearing pants, jeans or -- heaven forfend -- skinny jeans?

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2 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Great analysis, @AnnaSofia

If Geoff has needed or still needs home care, given the reports of a long-term illness, Victoria & the daughters would be providing that. They'd be doing so in addition to their handling of general household duties as well as the girls' (unpaid?) labor on t-Rex Arms, babysitting their brothers' kids, or whatever else they get stuck with. The Botkin family business model would probably crash to the ground without the daughters' work.

Absolutely agree. I think that sort of thing tends to happen even in more mainstream situations. And in a fundie scenario? Multiply it by a thousand.

Quote

Has there ever been a photo of Elizabeth & Anna Sofia wearing pants, jeans or -- heaven forfend -- skinny jeans?

I don't have a copy of it, but I seem to remember that the Botkinettes "Reclaiming Beauty" webinar featured a pic of Elizabeth wearing jeans in the barn. It was basically used as an example of "what not to do", illustrating how even they could grow "lazy" and unfeminine if not careful. There was also a pic of AS posted here once where she was possibly wearing some in the kitchen; we couldn't tell for certain because she was wearing an apron over them.

There were quite a few of them visible on the ladies in the crowd for TRex arms grand reopening a couple of years back, possibly including Isaac's wife Heidi? (toward the front/center, white blouse, holding a toddler).

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Elizabeth was rockin' the fundie-lite standard issue tunic/leggings/boots combination:

74452426_10162456135075576_5889183543375953920_n.thumb.jpg.811c6fdaad5cfe0fe407a0f11f96f171.jpg

While AS was far dressier than anyone else there:

76940755_10162456134575576_4538121036897452032_n.thumb.jpg.633b7d3f8bc5b8c51daae1457150437d.jpg

Props to @Marian the Librarian for tracking down the pics on Facebook

 

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On 3/15/2021 at 8:42 AM, Howl said:

She may be as well.  I confess I looked closely to see if he's wearing a strap on, but probably concealed carry. 

They are both seriously rocking the torn skinny jeans; how do you conceal carry w/ skinny jeans?

APEX carry is Lucas's preferred method of concealed carry. A concealed holster in the front . If you look very carefully at his right side, by the cuff of his shirt you can see the bulge from his firearm. 

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On 3/15/2021 at 10:07 AM, ophelia said:

Please, someone tell me I'm not the only one who doesn't think of anything gun related when reading that word. Combined with the skinny jeans that are mentioned in the next sentence, my mind went somewhere completely else.

Well trust me on this, I laughed hard when I read that. As someone who carrys a firearm daily and owns 1/2 dozen holsters and 55 firearms no one refers to a holstered firearm as a strap on. If you google strap on, I'm thinking we are safe to assume the Botkins are strap on free , for the most part. 

That would be a good question for their next " conference " 🤣.  I would be willing to contribute towards the registration fee, airfare and hotel to see that asked, if someone wants to be the attendee. 

Imagine that question in F LEE Bailey's voice, " so what you are telling us Miss Botkin is that neither you or your sister have ever owned a strap on. Is that correct ? At no time have you possessed one, shopped for one or worn one , is that correct ? So if someone here says differently they would be Lying Miss Botkin ? Now I would like to direct your attention to a registered letter that you two recently sent, that was clearly written by your father...... " 

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There is a pic of Lucas (probably lots of pics) wearing body conscious jeans with a big holster with multiple leather (!) straps holding it close to his leg.  One strap was practically in his crotch and I think a second further down.  That's a strap on as far as I'm concerned. 

They also sell a crotch-adjacent thigh strap as an accessory and you can see lots of photos and a video HERE.

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16 minutes ago, Howl said:

There is a pic of Lucas (probably lots of pics) wearing body conscious jeans with a big holster with multiple leather (!) straps holding it close to his leg.  One strap was practically in his crotch and I think a second further down.  That's a strap on as far as I'm concerned. 

They also sell a crotch-adjacent thigh strap as an accessory and you can see lots of photos and a video HERE.

I just followed your link and fell down the rabbit hole of the TRex website. Dear God! Are they for real?

 

BB909363-EB76-48BA-989A-AFDA59A1BBC6.jpeg

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22 minutes ago, Howl said:

There is a pic of Lucas (probably lots of pics) wearing body conscious jeans with a big holster with multiple leather (!) straps holding it close to his leg.  One strap was practically in his crotch and I think a second further down.  That's a strap on as far as I'm concerned. 

They also sell a crotch-adjacent thigh strap as an accessory and you can see lots of photos and a video HERE.

When I was on a recovery team for a bail bond business in my younger days, lots of guys utilized this type of holster. They were originally made for competitive shooters as it makes the holster hang a little lower so when you swing your arm down to drawl while running a course it's easier to drawl. Then the goobers that want to look all tact-COOL started buying them. Personally I never saw the need. I'm more concerned with the quality of the body armor and who my primary team members are. The tact-cool dudes are always the guys to get you into problems. The door always has to get kicked in, someone has to crash a window or climb a latter into an upstairs window. No thanks, a simple take down when they are walking out of the gym or 7/11 is so much easier. So the " strap on " crew as you call them are the goober team in my book. One time we grabbed a guy who was heading to 5 years in prison guaranteed, and he couldn't stop laughing at this one idiot wearing a camera helmet. He kept saying , " You look like Buck Rogers. Are you guys for real, all this for me ." The guy had a point and laughed at us all the way to the adult detention center. When he got there it was , " bye bye see you latter starship dudes, ready to beem up".

Lucas will grow out of his "strap on" stage. He is a young guy going through the shot em up bang bang stage. 

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44 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I just followed your link and fell down the rabbit hole of the TRex website. Dear God! Are they for real?

So very real. 

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12 hours ago, Gothard is a perv said:

no one refers to a holstered firearm as a strap on.

No offense, but as someone who owns no guns nor wants to own any, it seems pretty clear to me that a gun serves as an alternate penis (or an extra one) for way too many male gun owners. 

 

Edited by hoipolloi
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7 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

No offense, but as someone who owns no guns nor wants to own any, it seems pretty clear to me that a gun serves as an alternate penis (or an extra one) for way too many male gun owners. 

 

This was my late first husband. 

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OK, @Gothard is a perv, give us some context to those beautiful photos!  Ladies to the manor born?  AS & E long-lost cousins? 

I was taking a minute to notice the background of the pics of Anna Sophia and Elizabeth upthread and took a minute to notice how...sophisticated, for lack of a better word...the T Rex Arms offices are.  It's an extremely pulled together look with gray walls, wood effect floors, glass/stainless steel railing with lighted accents, black ceiling above and it looks like a leather couch.  Plus large vanity action photos of Lucas lining the walls.  Some thought went into all of it,  probably from a consultant and interior decorator.

This is a tiny business on a dirt road in the woods near a very small town in Tennessee, so I find this completely intriguing. 

Yes, in the group photo it does appear that Heidi is wearing pants, although they look like the pants equivalent of a frumper. 

In the large group photo of the opening, I noticed that both Geoff and Lucas are really tall, literally a head taller than anyone else there. 

 

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