Botkin 2: Geoff Tried to Advise Trump

[hoipolloi]

Of course, the irony about people like Voddie Baucham or Geoff Botkin is that they are adamantly opposed to "socialism," especially when it takes the form of universal medical care. They believe that they -- the TRUE CHRISTIANS™️ -- should be the sole arbiters of who gets care and who doesn't.

They see nothing wrong with people donating $1.25 million dollars for major medical care going to one speshul Christian rather than having the same medical care available to anyone who needs it when they need it.

[Columbia]

On 2/13/2021 at 6:54 AM, Howl said:

"Please pray for our finances to come through as we are currently uninsured..."

Again, the men who are the loudest about the importance of protecting one’s family don’t actually do it in a practical sense. 

[Sarcastically spinster]

36 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Again, the men who are the loudest about the importance of protecting one’s family don’t actually do it in a practical sense. 

In this case, "uninsured" doesn't necessarily actually mean "unfunded".  

[CyborgKin]

3 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Of course, the irony about people like Voddie Baucham or Geoff Botkin is that they are adamantly opposed to "socialism," especially when it takes the form of universal medical care. They believe that they -- the TRUE CHRISTIANS™️ -- should be the sole arbiters of who gets care and who doesn't.

They see nothing wrong with people donating $1.25 million dollars for major medical care going to one speshul Christian rather than having the same medical care available to anyone who needs it when they need it.

Something I remember R.C. Sproul Jr. saying in his 'biblical economics' course is that there's four different categories of poor people and it's only right/necessary to help some of them.  IIRC the categories were those who are poor due to oppression, by choice, due to natural disaster, and as a judgement on sin.  I suppose what's categorized as natural vs. judgement depends on whether or not you need an excuse not to help someone, or are the one needing help.  If a fundie has heart trouble and doesn't have health cover that's natural disaster.  If a non-fundie has heart trouble and doesn't have health cover that's judgement for sin.

[smittykins]

I’ve heard some people claim that those who “destroy their own bodies” through alcoholism/drug abuse should be placed at the bottom of the transplant list, with “innocent victims” at the top.

Edited February 15, 2021 by smittykins

[ophelia]

11 hours ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

Better in some ways, but there's definitely some overlap.  The more I learn about him the more amazed I am that he's seen as relatively mainstream (with a few weird ideas that can be tolerated) in circles that would see the Botkins, Pearls, etc., as way out.  Some of his views aren't as objectionable, but he's more dangerous in other ways because he *does* manage to make himself seem more mainstream. 

He was even invited to Germany for some speaking engagements a few years ago. There a fundies in Germany, but I think the group that invited him would count as mainstream evangelical in the US.

[danvillebelle]

No sympathy from me for Voddie. Not a fucking ounce. 

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 

He sowed fear, pain and suffering into who knows how many families. He's getting it thrown back at him. Karma's a bitch.

[nausicaa]

On 2/15/2021 at 6:54 PM, smittykins said:

I’ve heard some people claim that those who “destroy their own bodies” through alcoholism/drug abuse should be placed at the bottom of the transplant list, with “innocent victims” at the top.

I mean, if they're still addicted, they are placed at the bottom of the transplant list, so I don't know what those other people are complaining about. 

I have an uncle who died because he couldn't get a liver transplant as he couldn't quit drinking. He needed the liver transplant from Hepatitis acquired through dirty needles used during a heroin addiction in his twenties. 

I'm not sure but I believe even if you're not an addict, you can be moved lower on certain organ donation lists for just drinking a larger amount than normal or smoking cigarettes. They prefer a record of clean living. 

On 2/13/2021 at 8:54 AM, Howl said:

"Please pray for our finances to come through as we are currently uninsured..."

I think his wife has serious health issues as well.  I don't think there is enough money in the US to pay for the medical bills he's in the process of incurring not to mention the air fare for flying the family back and forth. Maybe his ministry covers that, but who knows. 

I don't mean to kick a man while he is down, but how old is Voddie? I just can't understand how two people in their fifties were just choosing to fly blind when it came to health insurance. Even without their history of health issue, they didn't understand they were racing against time here? It's pretty rare not to have any major medical issues as one enters late middle age. I am always amazed at the Fundies who seem to choose not to have insurance (I'm not referring to the ones who are just too poor and not in a position to obtain work with benefits).

I am sorry this is happening, for Jasmine's sake. I have grown to really like her through Twitter and I know she is close with her father. 

[MamaJunebug]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I am sorry this is happening, for Jasmine's sake. I have grown to really like her through Twitter and I know she is close with her father. 

And for the sons’ sakes.  

[Bluebirdbluebell]

According to his Wikipedia page, he is 51 soon to be 52. 

6 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

And for the sons’ sakes.  

Yeah they have a lot of children, possibly some of them are still underage. 

It's a very sad and serious situation. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[fundiewatch]

On 2/15/2021 at 2:06 PM, hoipolloi said:

Of course, the irony about people like Voddie Baucham or Geoff Botkin is that they are adamantly opposed to "socialism," especially when it takes the form of universal medical care. They believe that they -- the TRUE CHRISTIANS™️ -- should be the sole arbiters of who gets care and who doesn't.

They see nothing wrong with people donating $1.25 million dollars for major medical care going to one speshul Christian rather than having the same medical care available to anyone who needs it when they need it.

 

[Howl]

On a practical point, the entire family (Voddie, wife, minor children) had completely relocated to Africa; I don't know if they has some kind of medical coverage for missionaries there. There would be no reason to have coverage in the US, since it isn't their country of residence. 

Doesn't Voddie's wife have some type chronic health issue?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Howl

[JermajestyDuggar]

How many kids do they have total?

[hoipolloi]

28 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

How many kids do they have total?

The two oldest, Jasmine & Voddie III (called Trey), are followed by seven younger siblings, all of whom are adopted. IIRC, the youngest is probably around 7 or 8 now and the oldest is in his early or mid-teens. 

Trey seems to have stayed out of the spotlight created by his father & older sister. 

[Giraffe]

He'll be able to take his 1.5 million and get the best medical attention available and if he dies his wife will be able to use whatever money remains to support her remaining minor children without needing to return to work in order to make ends meet. My heart goes out to the families Voddie has taught over the years who would be left destitute if their headship were to die with minor children still at home because they followed his teachings. Yes I'm an evil hell-bound ex-christian but I have no sympathy for Voddie. 

[hoipolloi]

18 hours ago, Giraffe said:

He'll be able to take his 1.5 million and get the best medical attention available and if he dies his wife will be able to use whatever money remains to support her remaining minor children without needing to return to work in order to make ends meet. My heart goes out to the families Voddie has taught over the years who would be left destitute if their headship were to die with minor children still at home because they followed his teachings. Yes I'm an evil hell-bound ex-christian but I have no sympathy for Voddie. 

I may be an evil, hell-bound never-Christian but I agree with you. 

I might have *some* sympathy for Voddie if he'd ever apologized for even one or two of the terrible things he's preached over the years or the vile people he's supported, like Doug Phillips and Kevin Swanson. He hasn't done so, AFAIK. He just continues to make bank off those who do everything he says. Disgusting.

[Petronella]

On 2/17/2021 at 7:43 PM, Howl said:

On a practical point, the entire family (Voddie, wife, minor children) had completely relocated to Africa; I don't know if they has some kind of medical coverage for missionaries there. There would be no reason to have coverage in the US, since it isn't their country of residence. 

Doesn't Voddie's wife have some type chronic health issue?

When we moved from the States to the UK, we didn't need health insurance anymore, because of the (wonderful!!) NHS. But I pushed for us to get private insurance as well, because we visited the US at least annually, and I didn't trust that travel insurance would be sufficient, since it could be argued that we weren't "travelling" in the US just spending time in our other home country. (Maybe it would be fine, but I just didn't trust it enough to be certain it would be fine.) I just have a dread fear of what if we had an emergency in the US and had no coverage.

Why aren't they seeking care wherever they live? If they had relocated to a place where they didn't need medical coverage BUT knew that they would return to the States for care if they ever did need it, it would be disingenuous at best for them to claim that because of where they live they didn't "need" insurance. (I'm not saying they did claim this, just that you bring it up as a possible reason.)

I think this has nothing to do with their African residency. This is just standard fundie "I'll do a Go Fund Me if I ever need it."

I don't understand why responsibility (planning ahead for life's normal ups and downs) and compassion (a system that helps everyone, not just a chosen few) are so anathema to fundies/evangelicals.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Petronella

[Gothard is a perv]

On 2/15/2021 at 6:54 PM, smittykins said:

I’ve heard some people claim that those who “destroy their own bodies” through alcoholism/drug abuse should be placed at the bottom of the transplant list, with “innocent victims” at the top.

They are also the ones 85 lbs over weight that race to Golden Corral after church. 

[hoipolloi]

Not sure how long Audri Botkin's Twitter bio has been there, but ? ? ?

[Howl]

Brilliant find!   Geoff must have observed that Audri was not sufficiently submissive and therefore wasn't appropriately intimidated by her husband. 

Audri: "we MUST move away from this insanity NOW"

Dang, I'd love to get her unedited take on her sisters-in-law. 

 

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

 

Dang, I'd love to get her unedited take on her sisters-in-law

I’d love to hear her take on the new in coming sister-in-law. Does she have any idea what she’s getting into?

[Howl]

24 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Does she have any idea what she’s getting into?

I'm sure Geoff won't hold back on informing her at the earliest possible moment. 

[Black Aliss]

Yikes. I don't follow the Botkins and I'm sure the last I heard of Audri was that she was marrying Benjamin Botkin and it was their shared fear of the lord that drew them together. Well, that and music. And now she is retweeting a speech by Rashida Tlaib? This cannot have happened overnight! I'd love to know if there's a Cliff's Notes version of this journey somewhere.

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Yikes. I don't follow the Botkins and I'm sure the last I heard of Audri was that she was marrying Benjamin Botkin and it was their shared fear of the lord that drew them together. Well, that and music. And now she is retweeting a speech by Rashida Tlaib? This cannot have happened overnight! I'd love to know if there's a Cliff's Notes version of this journey somewhere.

 

 

We only first noticed when Ben and Audri moved away from the Botkin compound. 

[older than allosaurs]

Ben was on RC Sproul Jr.'s Twitter recently, calling him in no uncertain terms out on how he treats his children. He definitely seems to be looking at patriarchal bloviation in the rearview mirror.