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Jinjer 55: Picking Names Just to Sound Grand


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7 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

@PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea thank you! Its not very often you get to choose your new first name and I had to go with a similar sounding name just so I'd answer to it lol My sister works with a girl Leigh, shes a bit older than me but she also has had enough of the issues I had and is thinking of changing.

My eldest daughter has what used to be a male name, but has become 90% feminine. My other daughter has a flower name, just so people can be sure theyre girls! My boys have 100% male names. I dont think people understand the impact swapping gendered names with their kids can do. Im sure you do like the Percival but dont name your daughter it!

I have a boys’ name. Not just a unisex name, but a name that has been in the top 50 for boys for years. It’s also a surname name (not like Benjamin or Daniel or Michael or something more traditionally male). It has caused annoyance at times. On interviews I constantly get a reaction of surprise when I show up and am not male. And I’ve gotten obnoxious comments (only from men) saying my parents must have wanted a boy.
 

But other than that I have loved having a name that challenges gender norms and expectations and have mostly received positive reactions. People like Cameron Diaz and Taylor Swift and Drew Barrymore seem to have successfully pulled off the gender bending names without issue. Both of my kids have uncommon surname names that could be viewed as unisex. Hopefully they won’t hate them.
 

I know lots of female Leighs, of all ages. I also know a handful of male Lees. I can’t imagine ever thinking Leigh is a male name. Hard to predict how people will ultimately feel about their names. Glad you’re happier with your new one. 

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On 12/17/2020 at 3:35 AM, patsymae said:

I have read everything everyone said and I still can't wrap my head around it. If they are going to center their whole lives around creating a "brand," they need to rethink this one. Unless they're fine with their brand being WTF?

Maybe they want the mystery for now? The more unclear the brand name is, the more people will talk and think about it - or at least I could imagine that that’s what the two hope for.

And having a grand, pompous “meaning reveal” some months down the line might be to Jeremy’s taste. 

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On 12/30/2020 at 8:25 AM, Nothing if not critical said:

My favourite example is Oscar Wilde naming his sons Evelyn and Vivian.  :)

Cyril and Vyvyan, so not really so unisex.

I always assumed Cyril was named for his mother though, as St Cyril's original name was Constantine. Wilde was pretty into the Byzantine when he was young.

I know quite a few male Vivs of my parents' generation, eg born in the late 50s to early 60s. Then there's the singer Vivian Stanshall and Vyvyan the punk from The Young Ones - I think it would still be considered an acceptable boys' name in the UK. It's only recently that I see baby girl Vivians turning up.

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3 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

Cyril and Vyvyan, so not really so unisex.

Oops, apologies for that - must have mixed it up somehow. Thanks for pointing it our. Though Vyvyan still seems pretty girly to me, but clearly that's just me.

Edited by Nothing if not critical
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On 12/31/2020 at 5:10 AM, IsmeWeatherwax said:

My name was Leigh. A boys name, as I was told frequently throughout my 42 years. The classic spelling for boys is Lee, my Leigh is the girls spelling. I got a boys name as my dad wanted a boy, its a simple as that. I hated it, letters addressed to Mr, people expecting a male to turn up, my friends husbands losing their shit about wives going round to Leighs house for coffee, until pointed out  that I was s and sos mum. I changed my name by deed poll last year, old hebrew name, in the bible etc definitely only a girls name! I still get called Leigh, as they cant read it properly. I give up! My daughters have girlie names for that reason! 

My name is phonetically just spelled wrong so it’s mispronounced constantly. Also people will call me the wrong nafor years after I meet them despite my corrections. (Not my name but think Alicia pronounced Ah-lee-see-yah). I hate it and I’ve thought about changing the spelling. What was your experience with changing it? 

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7 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

My name is phonetically just spelled wrong so it’s mispronounced constantly. Also people will call me the wrong nafor years after I meet them despite my corrections. (Not my name but think Alicia pronounced Ah-lee-see-yah). I hate it and I’ve thought about changing the spelling. What was your experience with changing it? 

Same name club on that front. My name is usually a boys names, spelled in an uncommon spelling no one but my freshmen English teacher in college got correctly and that was immediately followed with "Unusual name for a girl".  (Like, think a name like Benjamin or Thomas or Matthew) I'm not overly fond of it either and definitely don't feel like it belongs to me, so I'm thinking of changing it. I want to change my last name anyway to hyphenate it with my moms name so may as well just change both at the same time. 

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@Daisy0322 because Ive gone from Leigh to Leah its not been too bad. My friends and family call me whatever version they prefer, I dont mind. Ive actually been called Leah more times in my life than Leigh lol I did it more for businesses, organizations, medical etc. Because I changed it by Deed poll at the solicitors I got certificates for banks etc.

My final straw was feb '19 I'd booked a lane at the bowling alley for me and mine and my friend and hers during school holidays. My friend arrived first and booked in under my name....the woman didnt have a booking under my name, Leigh R.. but she did have a booking under LIGHT R.. guess who couldnt read. I did lose my shit a tad.  This was when I really started to consider changing. 6 months later at a hospital appointment, nurse comes out and call for LIGHT R.. are you effing kidding me! I looked at her and said, do you mean LEIGH and she was like oh yes I dont know why I said light. 2 months later I was officially Leah    ?

I also changed my surname to my Mothers maiden surname, because she died last year and I like people saying her name as it reminds me of her! 

 

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I hated my hyphenated middle name and when the law changed here and it had to appear on drivers licenses, I formally deleted it. It was a pain and took a long time to get it changed on everything*, but I’m glad I did it. 

* Everything except the deeds for our house, and therefore council rates.  I’d have to pay a substantial amount of money to change the deeds so it’s not worth it. 

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My friend is the sole carrier of a name here in Finland. I have known for a long time that I want to use it as a name for my own child, but it would first of all be weird to have my friend's name as my kid's first especially as they'd be the only two, and well, even though it's 100% a Finnish word and 100% matches Finnish naming logic, it would feel odd to use such a rare name as a first.

Back in primary school, a girl there was named Jewel. Their family had no multi cultural background, and their surname was as Finnish as it can be. I always wondered what she thought of her own name, because she for sure got to hear hear about it. We pronounced it as "Ye-vel", how you'd pronounce the word literally over here, which made it even stranger of a name.

In 2020, Jääkarhu, polar bear, was in the accepted names here in Finland. Everyone is going full on WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. It's a name to be bullied about FOR SURE. I hope to sweet lord it's not the kid's first name... or that maybe it's some weird adult's will to change their own name. It's not even a pretty name. Sure its meaning sounds cool in English, ice bear, but you can't just... go willy nilly.

Other names in the accepted names look weird, but most of them are actually names from other languages which makes me believe they're simply just for kids in multicultural/immigrant background families.

Here's a list of the rejected names, spoilering because 2020 got a LONG LONG LONG list of them unlike many others (translations and other info included when applicaple):
 

Spoiler

 

Aavikko (Desert)

Ametister (I think this is Swedish plural for amethyst)

Arka (timid, shy, cowardly)

Avicii (this has been attempted multiple years)

Decepticon

Ekström (Surname, not allowed as first names)

Famelius

Fives

Fizzix (lmao what)

Fulush

Herra (Sir/Mister/Master)

Julmuri (TYRANT, EVIL MAN. WHAT THE FUCK YOU WEIRDOS)

Kapteeni (Captain)

Kyliex (lmao what)

Lord

Lucifer (this is attempted MULTIPLE times)

M.monga (I have a feeling this has been an unfortunate case of mistyping the name in the application)

Malm (surname)

Malmio (surname)

NeoNilla (capital letters not allowed mid name)

Pimu (a rather degrading name to address girls/young women over here)

Raivomieli (RAGEMIND. WHAT THE FUCK)

Ruumiinkukka (CORPSE'S FLOWER????)

Sephiroth

Skratte

Veikkonen (surname)

Williaz

Villjami (Viljami is a name, I think the reasoning might've been the unnnecessity)

Örkki-Ukko (OGRE MAN??????!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

 

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@finnlassie That's really interesting. Is Bear alone (in Finnish) allowed as a name? Bjørn/Björn (Bear) is allowed as a name in Denmark, Norway and Iceland (polar bear is not allowed) and Bear is used in the UK. 

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As an American, I'm always fascinated by the concept of government-determined lists of names.

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10 hours ago, finnlassie said:

My friend is the sole carrier of a name here in Finland. I have known for a long time that I want to use it as a name for my own child, but it would first of all be weird to have my friend's name as my kid's first especially as they'd be the only two, and well, even though it's 100% a Finnish word and 100% matches Finnish naming logic, it would feel odd to use such a rare name as a first.

Back in primary school, a girl there was named Jewel. Their family had no multi cultural background, and their surname was as Finnish as it can be. I always wondered what she thought of her own name, because she for sure got to hear hear about it. We pronounced it as "Ye-vel", how you'd pronounce the word literally over here, which made it even stranger of a name.

In 2020, Jääkarhu, polar bear, was in the accepted names here in Finland. Everyone is going full on WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. It's a name to be bullied about FOR SURE. I hope to sweet lord it's not the kid's first name... or that maybe it's some weird adult's will to change their own name. It's not even a pretty name. Sure its meaning sounds cool in English, ice bear, but you can't just... go willy nilly.

Other names in the accepted names look weird, but most of them are actually names from other languages which makes me believe they're simply just for kids in multicultural/immigrant background families.

Here's a list of the rejected names, spoilering because 2020 got a LONG LONG LONG list of them unlike many others (translations and other info included when applicaple):
 

  Hide contents

 

Aavikko (Desert)

Ametister (I think this is Swedish plural for amethyst)

Arka (timid, shy, cowardly)

Avicii (this has been attempted multiple years)

Decepticon

Ekström (Surname, not allowed as first names)

Famelius

Fives

Fizzix (lmao what)

Fulush

Herra (Sir/Mister/Master)

Julmuri (TYRANT, EVIL MAN. WHAT THE FUCK YOU WEIRDOS)

Kapteeni (Captain)

Kyliex (lmao what)

Lord

Lucifer (this is attempted MULTIPLE times)

M.monga (I have a feeling this has been an unfortunate case of mistyping the name in the application)

Malm (surname)

Malmio (surname)

NeoNilla (capital letters not allowed mid name)

Pimu (a rather degrading name to address girls/young women over here)

Raivomieli (RAGEMIND. WHAT THE FUCK)

Ruumiinkukka (CORPSE'S FLOWER????)

Sephiroth

Skratte

Veikkonen (surname)

Williaz

Villjami (Viljami is a name, I think the reasoning might've been the unnnecessity)

Örkki-Ukko (OGRE MAN??????!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

 

Don’t you always wonder who theese people are that look at their baby and think ”wouldn’t it be lovely if we could name you Ragemind, I so hope you get bullied in school and get weird looks about your name your whole life. It will build character.”

There have been cases were I think the rules are a bit too restrictive but most of the time I look at the names on the list of rejected names (we have one in Sweden too) and hope that someone is keeping a close eye on those kids. 

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But banning surnames as first names? And capitalized initials in the middle of names? That feels extreme. Half of American kids’ names would be considered illegal based on those rules!

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I have two friends with traditionally feminine names who hate them... one goes by a gender neutral nickname, the other goes by a male-only nickname (think John, Ben, etc). Both have mentioned that they were shocked at how much more strangers have respected them, listened more closely when they were speaking, asked questions instead of arguing, etc. when they introduce themselves by the nicknames rather than the feminine names. Honestly, hearing the stories they have is kind of shocking.
 

If I was planning to have kids, I’d be leaning toward giving them neutral/more masculine names that could have a more feminine nickname if they chose to use that- particularly since the friend who goes by a male nickname was applying for jobs when she made the switch, and the rates of people calling her after reading her resume skyrocketed when she used her nickname at the top. Her experience hadn’t changed at all, just the name at the top of the page. When she got to the interviews, she never had any issues other than a little surprise. If anything, she thought it made her more memorable (and see above about being taken more seriously). 
 

My name is one letter off from two very common names. Until I was an adult, I never met anyone with my name and almost never had anyone pronounce it correctly on the first try (they assumed it was a typo for one of the more common names)- it never really bothered me except for one day in third grade when I complained about it. Now that I’m an adult, I’ve grown to LOVE it and couldn’t imagine being named anything else. It’s just different enough to help people remember me, but it’s not so out there that I have to repeat it more than twice, usually. In fact, I’ve become very close friends with two other people I met who share my name. We really bonded over loving our unique names- it kicked off long excited conversations that led to actual friendships, and I’m such an introvert I can’t say that about any other strangers I’ve met... it usually takes me a long time to get to know people and want to spend my energy on them. My sister has a very generic name that she hates, and she has used several nicknames throughout her life to try and make her name fit better. 

Edited by Ms. Brightside
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This names talk is exactly I needed. 

I've mentioned before that my legal name is long, unusual and awful. Both my sister and I have 4 syllable, mythological names (based on one parents ethnicity) and a long, unusual last name. She loves hers and also uses an unusual, shortened version of it.

I hate mine and always have. Other than school and legal documents, I've never used it or been called it (even by my immediate family). 

I have been using a nickname of my middle name for legal stuff/work for about 5 years. But actually have a totally different first and last name that I use when I meet new people/in social settings that is more me. I've used it since 2009? I really want to legally change it but I dunno... It's stressing me out so much lately because I think my family will be so angry if/when I change it. They can still call me whatever. 

Ugh sorry, FJ, I needed to vent! 

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The point of JinJer's brand is to be as bland as possible so that all possible buyers/fans will be attracted to it and be able to see the brand as something they want to buy. Like when you stage a house, you decorate as neutrally as possible so that it appeals to as many buyers as possible. They want the fans to project their preferred image of Jinger and Jeremy onto the brand, rather than show you who they are. 

This is a common influencer trick. 

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17 hours ago, HereticHick said:

As an American, I'm always fascinated by the concept of government-determined lists of names.

We do not have government determined lists, but a board that judges names that seem questionable and inappropriate. When you submit your child's name to the magistrate/the state church for baptism, the magistrate or the priest can intervene, first discussing the name decision with the parents and if there's no compromise, the name will be sent to the board (and if you are an adult changing your name you have to pay for it). This is to protect the children and the people from distasteful, absurd and outrageous names. Though, with Jääkarhu, that philosophy seems to be thrown in the drain...

For example, 1) my mum (a minister) prevented a family from naming their child Magnet, their surname meaning Field. Magnet Field. MAGNET. FIELD. 2) One of the accepted names, Billura, was most likely submitted to the board due to it's closeness to pillura/pillu, meaning cunt. However, I checked and it means crystal in Uzbek. The board simply doesn't have the time and resources to search for every single name from all the countries, they get TONS of these each year.

11 hours ago, Johannah said:

But banning surnames as first names? And capitalized initials in the middle of names? That feels extreme. Half of American kids’ names would be considered illegal based on those rules!

Our surnames aren't as neutral as they are in the English speaking world. There are some names that have historically been used interchangeably, or have been ambiguous otherwise. But, for the most part, our surnames are stuff like Virtanen, Mäkinen, Mäkelä, Heikkilä, Järvelä, Hämäläinen... A lot of them are adjectives, diminutives or farm/estate names.

People are free to stylise their name in their private lives as they please. I know it sounds odd to non-Finns, but I think it's very important to have these strict protocols.

18 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

@finnlassie That's really interesting. Is Bear alone (in Finnish) allowed as a name? Bjørn/Björn (Bear) is allowed as a name in Denmark, Norway and Iceland (polar bear is not allowed) and Bear is used in the UK. 

We have Otso, which is one of the ancient (nick)names that is very common. Less than 30 people seem to have Karhu as their name, most likely as second or third.

 

Also to note, the rejected names list is always about submitted names that would be new in Finland. Hence the multiple times names like Lucifer and Avicii pop up almost annually.

That Jääkarhu name is just something that REALLY grinds my gears this year.

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Germany is pretty strict about names as well, though they have loosened up quite a bit in recent years. There are no official lists, though; basically it's up to the person at the registrar's office to decide whether to accept a name, based on a set of guidelines. They generally won't accept place names (so no Brooklyn or Holland), demeaning names or swear words, no common nouns or food stuffs, no honorifics/titles like Prince or King, or surnames, especially stuff like Hitler or Stalin.

Generally, what you pick needs to be accepted as a first name in either German culture or your own. There's also a rule against gender-neutral names, but it seems to me that it gets enforced less and less (I know a guy called Kai whose official name is Kajetan because they were a bit stricter back then).

For the most part, the rules seem sensible to me, considering what some people are ready to inflict on their child... A quick Google search tells me that in recent years they rejected Whisky, Schröder and Pfefferminza (peppermint-a), as well as Joghurt (yoghurt) and Satan, Desperado and Popo (literally "butt"), Pinocchio and Ferrari. I think you can safely say that those decisions were in the kids' best interest.

Some more interesting decisions I remember: there's a German actress called Wolke (literally "cloud"), which I'm surprised they allowed, but it fits in nicely with existing girls' names ending in -ke, so no big deal. And there was a Turkish woman who wanted to call her girl Berlin, which is apparently a common Turkish name, but was rejected because of the place name rule (she was actually living in Berlin at the time, so I agree it would have been weird, but this one still seems a bit unfair). 
 

tl;dr: It's mostly not a big deal. There's still plenty of names to pick from, and at least it protects kids from the worst excesses, for the most part.

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Having really strict naming rules does sound extreme but I do think in certain situations it is justified to tell parents no if the name is that bad that it is detrimental to that child. The case a few years ago where a Judge in New Zealand told divorcing parents to change the name of their daughter, her name was Tula, does the hula from Hawaii and the child had expressed that she hated the name shows that sometimes adults pick funny sounding names and have zero consideration of how the child feels or the impact it has on them. 

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1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

her name was Tula, does the hula from Hawaii and the child had expressed that she hated the name

tbh, who wouldn't hate it if that was their name?!

I mean, I understand that some people don't want to have a very common or ordinary name, but some names are over the top.

 

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I think it’s just hard to imagine a name like polar bear or Berlin being controversial when we have American celebrity kids named things like Audio Science and Sage Moonblood and Moon Unit and Moxie Crimefighter and Speck Wildhorse and Pilot Inspektor. And there are literally thousands of kids named Brooklyn who live in Brooklyn. 

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15 minutes ago, Johannah said:

I think it’s just hard to imagine a name like polar bear or Berlin being controversial when we have American celebrity kids named things like Audio Science and Sage Moonblood and Moon Unit and Moxie Crimefighter and Speck Wildhorse and Pilot Inspektor. And there are literally thousands of kids named Brooklyn who live in Brooklyn. 

Today I learned that the State of California does actually have naming rules, per this article: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/25/entertainment/grimes-musk-baby-name-tweak-scli-intl/index.html

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Oh wow yeah I forgot about Elon Musk’s kid. I think the naming law is that names have to use the English alphabet. X Æ A-Xii is quite the name. 

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On 1/3/2021 at 7:31 AM, finnlassie said:

M.monga (I have a feeling this has been an unfortunate case of mistyping the name in the application)

From @finnlassie's list of govt-rejected names. It probably is a mistype, but it reminded me of some young baseball players from Curaçao* who played in the 2019 Little League World Series:

Pe.son (I have forgotten how this was pronounced, but maybe Pay Sawn. The period seemed to add a literal stop between syllables)

Fran-J

Í-Zion

The youngsters would have been named about 13-14 years ago. Although definitely odd to my eye, my old ears rather like the names.

* And before any of you guys think I'm acting all fancy with my markings, I had to google how to do it and practice them for a while just so I could post here. I've never bothered before now because I've never had to.

 

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15 hours ago, Ms. Brightside said:

My name is one letter off from two very common names. Until I was an adult, I never met anyone with my name and almost never had anyone pronounce it correctly on the first try (they assumed it was a typo for one of the more common names)- it never really bothered me except for one day in third grade when I complained about it.

This is what put me off my partner's first choice name for our daughter - Ilsa. Like Ingrid Bergman's character in Casablanca. The name Isla is crazy popular in the UK and I could just imagine she'd have a lifetime of correcting people who had read it wrong. I wondered about spelling it Ilse instead but again that would be problematic as it doesn't look how it's pronounced to English readers.

I think if we had a second daughter I'd be tempted to go with Elsa instead. Partner says Elspeth is a no-go as he has an estuary accent and will pronounce it Elspeff. Sigh.

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