Jinjer 55: Picking Names Just to Sound Grand

[fluffernutter]

4 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

They mentioned that the dog in the picture belongs to a friend.  And Pennsy folks, do you have that amount of snow right now?

They guy who took the pic of Jeremy in the snow posted a pic from Yosemite Natl Park 2 days ago: https://www.instagram.com/mattcoeler/?hl=en Matt is apparently a Masters Seminary alum with lots of $$. I bet they are at a vacation home.

I'm about an hour away from his parents and we got around a foot of snow the week before christmas.

[Idlewild]

Ah, friends with fame and/or money. The Vuolos’ favourite type of friend! 

[apandaaries]

On 12/26/2020 at 12:59 PM, nausicaa said:

So her nickname is a cross between "fang" and common slang for a vagina? Well, I guess Boy Name Sueing your daughter is one way to toughen her up. 

Ice-T’s government name is Tracy.

There’s a weird thing where men’s names get converted to women’s names and then become untouchable (though I believe Ice-T’s first son is Tracy III). Think Leslie, Tracy, Taylor, etc. 

Not especially on topic, but something I find fascinating.

[baldricks_turnip]

28 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

Ice-T’s government name is Tracy.

There’s a weird thing where men’s names get converted to women’s names and then become untouchable (though I believe Ice-T’s first son is Tracy III). Think Leslie, Tracy, Taylor, etc. 

Not especially on topic, but something I find fascinating.

I find this fascinating too! I have been intrigued to see several peers name their sons Ashley. Being that we are all children of the 80s/90s, I thought we would share a view that it had been reclassified as a female name. Its the first name that I have observed to go from female to male.
I do wonder about names like Logan, Dylan, Rowan, etc, that are increasingly given to girls but does not make parents shy away from giving them to their sons. Another naming phenomenon I have observed is the name Lachlan is a very common boys name in Commonwealth countries (it was in the top 10 Australian boys names for probably the entire decade of the 2000-2010) but when I've heard it used be Americans it seems to be for girls (with various spellings).

[TheGleeTeam]

The mountains outside LA almost certainly got snow this week (Big Bear area) and would be a few hours' drive from where the Vuolos live. I think they went somewhere around there in the Snow to Sand episode of Counting On when they went sledding (tubing? tobogganing?). Anyway, no idea if that's where JinJer are but it would be a more responsible trip than getting on a plane to PA or elsewhere...

[Coconut Flan]

Definitely snow in the mountains near LA.  I saw it this morning.  

[Expectopatronus]

5 hours ago, baldricks_turnip said:

I find this fascinating too! I have been intrigued to see several peers name their sons Ashley. Being that we are all children of the 80s/90s, I thought we would share a view that it had been reclassified as a female name. Its the first name that I have observed to go from female to male.
I do wonder about names like Logan, Dylan, Rowan, etc, that are increasingly given to girls but does not make parents shy away from giving them to their sons. Another naming phenomenon I have observed is the name Lachlan is a very common boys name in Commonwealth countries (it was in the top 10 Australian boys names for probably the entire decade of the 2000-2010) but when I've heard it used be Americans it seems to be for girls (with various spellings).

I’ve known both boys and girls named Lachlan. I find it weird for a girl but to each their own. I also find calling girls Micah strange given that he was a male prophet. I think overall, it’s easier for girls to have stereotypical boy names than vice versa.

[marmalade]

They're at Lake Arrowhead. Matt is the son of the owner of the LA house. 

[SorenaJ]

11 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Ice-T’s government name is Tracy.

There’s a weird thing where men’s names get converted to women’s names and then become untouchable (though I believe Ice-T’s first son is Tracy III). Think Leslie, Tracy, Taylor, etc. 

Not especially on topic, but something I find fascinating.

In the UK*, in 2019, Taylor is primarily given to boys, with around 75 % of the babies named Taylor being male, and 25 % being female (however in 1996, it was pretty much 50/50). Same thing for Ashley in 2019, 75 % male and 25 % female. In 1996 87 % of Ashley babies were male, 13 % female. 

Lachlan is exclusively male in the UK. Nearly the same for Rowan, where in 2019 11 % of Rowan babies are female, 89 % male (vs 69 % male, 31 % female in 1996).  

In the UK, Leslie is a boys name, whereas Lesley is a girls name. 

For comparison, in the US, in 2019, 82 % of babies called Taylor were female, 18 % male. In 1996 that figure was 80 % female, 20 % male.

In the US, in 2019, 99 % of babies called Ashley are female, 1 % male. In 1996 that figure was 99.5 % female, 0.5 % male.

In 2019, Rowan is 30 % female, 70 % male (in 1996 62 % female, 38 % male). 

 

Interesting how Rowan is becoming less female for both UK and US. Same for Taylor in the UK. Ashley is becoming more female, but still primarily male, in the UK. 

 

*England and Wales

Edited December 30, 2020 by SorenaJ

[Nothing if not critical]

All the Ashleys I’ve known personally were British, and all were male. And then of course there’s Ashley in Gone With the  Wind. Then again, I’m aware there’s plenty of female Ashleys in the US, so the name pretty much registers as unisex for me. Which is a weird concept for a German to grasp, because our names have to be recognisably male or female or else you have to add a middle name.

But yeah, the perceptions of names as male or female absolutely change over time. My favourite example is Oscar Wilde naming his sons Evelyn and Vivian.  

Oh, and my inner language nerd objects to giving a girl a name ending in “son” or starting with “Mac”, because that seems just logically wrong? But that’s probably just me.

[apandaaries]

8 minutes ago, Nothing if not critical said:

All the Ashleys I’ve known personally were British, and all were male. And then of course there’s Ashley in Gone With the  Wind. Then again, I’m aware there’s plenty of female Ashleys in the US, so the name pretty much registers as unisex for me. Which is a weird concept for a German to grasp, because our names have to be recognisably male or female or else you have to add a middle name.

But yeah, the perceptions of names as male or female absolutely change over time. My favourite example is Oscar Wilde naming his sons Evelyn and Vivian.  

Oh, and my inner language nerd objects to giving a girl a name ending in “son” or starting with “Mac”, because that seems just logically wrong? But that’s probably just me.

Oh my heart...it’s yours... you mentioned Oscar Wilde! ? 

I’m American and have only known female Ashleys. And I’ve also known so many MacKenzie versions...all girls. ?‍♀️

I remain intrigued by how female encroachment on male names renders them unusable.

[Topaz]

4 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

All the Ashleys I’ve known personally were British, and all were male. And then of course there’s Ashley in Gone With the  Wind. Then again, I’m aware there’s plenty of female Ashleys in the US, so the name pretty much registers as unisex for me. Which is a weird concept for a German to grasp, because our names have to be recognisably male or female or else you have to add a middle name.

But yeah, the perceptions of names as male or female absolutely change over time. My favourite example is Oscar Wilde naming his sons Evelyn and Vivian.  

Oh, and my inner language nerd objects to giving a girl a name ending in “son” or starting with “Mac”, because that seems just logically wrong? But that’s probably just me.

My inner language nerd is in full agreement with yours.

[Johannah]

4 hours ago, apandaaries said:

I remain intrigued by how female encroachment on male names renders them unusable.

Because women are devalued by society. It’s akin to saying a boy throws like a girl or cries like a girl or acts like a sissy. When women enter male-dominated professions in large numbers the prestige diminishes and the pay decreases (like teachers or primary care physicians). 
 

It’s viewed as empowering your daughter to give her a more traditionally male or unisex name, as though it makes them edgier. Like girls playing sports or becoming engineers. It’s seen as desirable and valuable to take on masculine traits. Until women and female traits are viewed as valuable and desirable for both genders, male names will continue to be considered unusable once they’re given to girls. God forbid your son is viewed as feminine or mistaken for a girl. 
 

I do find it promising and hopeful for the future that names like Rowan and Cameron and Taylor and Logan seem to be remaining somewhat unisex even after being given in some proportion to baby girls. 

[HereticHick]

6 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Oh my heart...it’s yours... you mentioned Oscar Wilde! ? 

I’m American and have only known female Ashleys. And I’ve also known so many MacKenzie versions...all girls. ?‍♀️

 

I have a male high school classmate named Ashley. We're 50ish, and-surprise!-southern.  I also have a male classmate named Beverly.

[justmy2cents]

My friend named his now 21 yo son Alexis. At this point I like it better on a male than female since so many girls were given that name in the 80’s thanks to Dynasty!

[Iamtheway]

My brother in law has a unisex-name and his parents were planning for him to have it regardless of gender. He once dated a girl with the same name, something his brothers (both with definitly male names) thought was hilarious. 

[Expectopatronus]

My niece has a buddy in her grade 1 class named « Fries ». We thought at first she had misheard his name or that it was a nickname but nope. My sister double checked with the teacher and that is his legal name. We then thought that maybe it means something different in a different language and was a cultural name. Nope. Blonde, blue-eyed kid with an English last name. Sister is named Cocoa. I’m sure there is an interesting story behind the name choices and it just shows that any name that has meaning to the parents can work. Fortunately, the kids have not been bullied. 

[shesinsane]

11 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

All the Ashleys I’ve known personally were British, and all were male. And then of course there’s Ashley in Gone With the  Wind. [snip]

Ashley Wilkes was portrayed by actor Leslie Howard. ?

I'm American and I know more female Ashleys and more male Leslies.

[medimus]

2 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

My niece has a buddy in her grade 1 class named « Fries ». We thought at first she had misheard his name or that it was a nickname but nope. My sister double checked with the teacher and that is his legal name. We then thought that maybe it means something different in a different language and was a cultural name. Nope. Blonde, blue-eyed kid with an English last name. Sister is named Cocoa. I’m sure there is an interesting story behind the name choices and it just shows that any name that has meaning to the parents can work. Fortunately, the kids have not been bullied. 

Fries is a Dutch word/name, Friesland is in the north of the Netherlands and Fries is the language they speak there. It's pronounced fr ee (as in keep) and soft s (not a z sound).

Cocoa is not a Dutch word or name though, so that's as far as that theory goes ?

[Befuddled]

I used to know a guy named Kim who was called that but always included his plainly masculine middle name when he wrote or typed it to let people know he wasn't anything other than male.

On the other hand, a female friend also named Kim will often use her one-syllable middle name in her signature to denote that it is indeed "just" Kim and not Kimberly, which some people automatically assume is her real name.

[IsmeWeatherwax]

My name was Leigh. A boys name, as I was told frequently throughout my 42 years. The classic spelling for boys is Lee, my Leigh is the girls spelling. I got a boys name as my dad wanted a boy, its a simple as that. I hated it, letters addressed to Mr, people expecting a male to turn up, my friends husbands losing their shit about wives going round to Leighs house for coffee, until pointed out  that I was s and sos mum. I changed my name by deed poll last year, old hebrew name, in the bible etc definitely only a girls name! I still get called Leigh, as they cant read it properly. I give up! My daughters have girlie names for that reason! 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

7 hours ago, IsmeWeatherwax said:

My name was Leigh. A boys name, as I was told frequently throughout my 42 years. The classic spelling for boys is Lee, my Leigh is the girls spelling. I got a boys name as my dad wanted a boy, its a simple as that. I hated it, letters addressed to Mr, people expecting a male to turn up, my friends husbands losing their shit about wives going round to Leighs house for coffee, until pointed out  that I was s and sos mum. I changed my name by deed poll last year, old hebrew name, in the bible etc definitely only a girls name! I still get called Leigh, as they cant read it properly. I give up! My daughters have girlie names for that reason! 

Interesting though I'm sorry it's been a trial for you. Leigh is a pretty common first name among Ontario lady boomers and super popular girls' middle name. 

Leah is pretty though!

I am the opposite - very feminine name without being super feminine as a person!

[AmericanRose]

On 12/30/2020 at 2:07 PM, medimus said:

Fries is a Dutch word/name, Friesland is in the north of the Netherlands and Fries is the language they speak there. It's pronounced fr ee (as in keep) and soft s (not a z sound).

Cocoa is not a Dutch word or name though, so that's as far as that theory goes ?

Ah, memories of my youth. I had an online boyfriend back in my teen years who went by Frieze.... because he was Belgian and his name was Fries.

[IsmeWeatherwax]

@PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea thank you! Its not very often you get to choose your new first name and I had to go with a similar sounding name just so I'd answer to it lol My sister works with a girl Leigh, shes a bit older than me but she also has had enough of the issues I had and is thinking of changing.

My eldest daughter has what used to be a male name, but has become 90% feminine. My other daughter has a flower name, just so people can be sure theyre girls! My boys have 100% male names. I dont think people understand the impact swapping gendered names with their kids can do. Im sure you do like the Percival but dont name your daughter it!

[JDuggs]

I’m actually surprised that people aren’t giving their children less gendered names now. I would say that most of us on FJ don’t believe that sex and gender are the same, so why would you base a baby’s name on its sex?

Of course, when I was naming babies 20-25 years ago, these ideas weren’t in my thought process at all and none of my kids have non-gendered names.