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Justin and Claire 2: Always the One I Forget


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21 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Justin should be finishing his senior year of high school not getting married. I know any mention of this ignites a storm of “I got married young and am the happiest married person in world history” posts. But there really is such a thing as too young and Justin is it. Especially in this cult where he’s highly likely to also be a parent in a year or less. 
 

Statistically, couples married before 25 have a much higher divorce rate. Before 20 is even higher. Obviously, it’s extremely unlikely these two will ever divorce. But it’s likely they’ll struggle and be unhappy. 

I got married young (21, so still older than Clairitin) and am still married, but I agree with you anyway. They are locking themselves into a future they’ve been told to want. Friends of mine were raised in a sheltered homeschooled environment (in Aus, not connected to any of the churches or cults we snark on), “courted” and married a month after her 18th, as young as she was legally able. I heard from her a couple of days ago that they had recently separated. I’m sad, because I was impressed by their maturity (& honestly, their insight and criticism of their parents...) and they’re good parents to their two boys, but really, the odds were always against them.

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A lot of my grandparents, parents, aunts and uncles married young. Some stayed married and some divorced. If I did the math, I bet it would be around 50/50. I waited until I was 27 when I got married because I knew I wasn’t even close to ready at ages 18-23.

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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I am always in two minds about this.

On the one hand, many of the reasons people have for delaying marriage don't apply to the Duggars. All of us are, to an extent, conditioned by the norms and expectations around us, and they live in a subculture where marrying young is not unusual. Having a family is part of being an adult. Many of these people are probably perfectly happy because they're participating in the social life of their group. They've been taught to want this life and they do want it. They'd put any problems or challenges in perspective, because after all, whose life is all smooth sailing? This is part of what we do, we're fine with it. And they might be right about that.

And in and of itself, getting married young is not a problem. The problem is when the person in question doesn't want to or feels pressured to, or if they are really not ready for whatever reason but did it because there was a social expectation. They may miss out on a opportunity to do things in the way they would like do or that would be better for them, personally.

And that's the risk and the uncertainty, and the question mark that hangs over these young marriages. Because which is it?

Edited by seraaa
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My parents married young too but they had the choice. They were 22 and 24 but had already been on their own for years plus my dad had a really good job, he’s still working there to this day. Oh yeah and they dated around a bit before getting together. These fundies don’t get the option to explore and discover themselves.

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My mom was sixteen when she got married. Two months later turned seventeen and two months after that, welcomed my first sister. She said the first 1-3 years of marriage were the hardest because they were babies raising a baby. They persevered and have now been married for forty-one years and are disgustingly happy now. However, she always recommended to us that we wait until we’re older to marry and have kids because it’s such a struggle. Now I’ve waited so long (mid thirties) that I feel like I’ve missed the boat all together. ?

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30 minutes ago, viii said:

My mom was sixteen when she got married. Two months later turned seventeen and two months after that, welcomed my first sister. She said the first 1-3 years of marriage were the hardest because they were babies raising a baby. They persevered and have now been married for forty-one years and are disgustingly happy now. However, she always recommended to us that we wait until we’re older to marry and have kids because it’s such a struggle. Now I’ve waited so long (mid thirties) that I feel like I’ve missed the boat all together. ?

I don't really wish I had gotten married and had kids when I was 20 but I had my grandparents for such a long time and my siblings who married young have kids who fully knew their great grandparents. I am sad that won't be the case for my kids and grandkids. In the 90's it wasn't uncommon where I was from for people to be planning their wedding at the end of their senior year of high school. But they were usually engaged to someone a bit older who had a steady job at a local factory or at a bank or the grocery store or something. Not a lot of people went to college so getting married and living an adult life was the normal next step

Edited by Grace
Because I am sad not dad
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1 hour ago, irish_dancing_canadian said:

These fundies don’t get the option to explore and discover themselves.

This a huge part of the issue I have with young fundie marriages. Yes I know others have gotten married young but at least they had a choice and hopefully knew something about themselves. To me that's not the same as these young marriages. Non fundies presumably had  choice.  These kiddos have one option to move out, it's to get married. They are so limited by their parents they will never know how much more the world has to offer. 

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My dad's parents married young. My grandmother was 16. That is they way things were done in the old country. It is the way things were done for centuries all around the world. My patents were older. They were in their late 20s. Times were changing. Marrying you doesn't mean a bad marriage, its not having a choice or having that be the only life your future holds that is the problem. 

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I really don't think all of the Duggars will stay married, most of them will but they won't be happy. 

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Hilary posted another picture from the weekend. Lawson is in it with the 3 middle Brothers. No sign of the elder Bates yet (Gil/Kelly). They normally go to all the weddings. 

Edited by justmy2cents
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Justin posted another wedding picture in his birthday post to Claire. His suit actually looks better face on- it still would have been better ti have a more modern cut. Claire’s dress- she looks lovely and everything but it looks very big on her, a more fitted style or at least a nipped in waist would have looked better.

Various Duggars are now posting from Magnolia- obviously a fundie approved venue, like Silver Dollar City! 

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It *looks* like Claire's changed her public Instahandle to claireduggar01, just FYI. The old one no longer exists, but it looks like the new handle is a correct match. They have to change the handle immediately when changing the last name, don't they?

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I think there is a difference between most people marrying young and fundies marrying young. It’s not the age issue, it’s the life experience issue. Young fundies have zero life experience and have never been allowed to make any simple life choices. They have never been given options for pretty much anything. Most 13 year-olds have more life experience, education, independence and critical thinking skills than 18 year-old fundies. These are not average 18 year-olds. 

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I think some here are forgetting the other reason this is more dangerous than non-fundie couples who marry young: at 20 years old she's likely quite fertile and could easily pop out 15+ kids and spend her entire young adulthood having back-to-back babies until she becomes a grandma by age 40. The older these girls marry the better to reduce those quivers.

Edited by freethemall
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I've been following a Twitter thread where people are sharing what their 18 to 20 year old children are doing - and they're tagging various Duggars along the way. 

It's pretty interesting. And funny as it goes down rabbit holes of extremes, absurdities & obvious mocking. 

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My husband and I were quite young when we married, 21 and almost 23. We've been married for close to 19 years and we dated for 3 years before we got married. It hasn't always been easy but most of the factors that have made things hard at times would have been difficult for anyone regardless of age. Things like multiple deployments, moves, difficult pregnancies, miscarriages and other health issues. But overall we have been happy and while we do have a few different ideas on what we see for our future they are mostly aligned.

On the other hand I can not see my 17 year old daughter married in 4 years. Her boyfriend is great and they will be going to the same university next year but they both just seem so young even though they are both more mature than many other kids their age that I know. 

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4 hours ago, Grace said:

I don't really wish I had gotten married and had kids when I was 20 but I had my grandparents for such a long time and my siblings who married young have kids who fully knew their great grandparents. I am sad that won't be the case for my kids and grandkids. 

This is so true. I grew up with my grandparents as a second set of parents because they were only in their forties when I was born. My nieces and nephew know them, but both my sisters waited until their thirties to have children so they won’t know them as well as we know our great-grandparents. 

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4 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

This a huge part of the issue I have with young fundie marriages. Yes I know others have gotten married young but at least they had a choice and hopefully knew something about themselves. To me that's not the same as these young marriages. Non fundies presumably had  choice.  These kiddos have one option to move out, it's to get married. They are so limited by their parents they will never know how much more the world has to offer. 

And theoretically you can still explore the world with your spouse, but being married means different responsibilities. Some people may be happy to be part of a team, but getting married young precludes some of the opportunities and possibilities you would have when you explore as a single (or not-married) person.

And there are pros and cons to each situation, but the key thing is actually choosing it imo.

Edited by seraaa
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19 hours ago, artdecades said:

I don’t understand this magnolia thing. What even is it? Just a giant store and restaurants? Why do they act like it’s the promised land. Why is it an actual destination? Joy posted “first time at magnolia” like it was someone going to Disneyland I don’t understand. 

I've been looking at the Magnolia website to try to figure out why 2 big silos are a destination and from what I can get yeah it's a mecca of Chip and Joanna Gains stuff...it's a store, with foodtrucks and a garden...but apparently the purpose is to bask in Jonanna Gains classic designs and be INSPIRED to decorate your home...presumably by adding shiplap, whitewashing everything and then throwing some rustic touches around. 

You can also rent several Gains renovated and decorated houses for group/family getaways in Waco.

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2 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

it's a mecca of Chip and Joanna Gains

Don't forget they are Christian so it is an approved place.

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2 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

I've been looking at the Magnolia website to try to figure out why 2 big silos are a destination and from what I can get yeah it's a mecca of Chip and Joanna Gains stuff...it's a store, with foodtrucks and a garden...but apparently the purpose is to bask in Jonanna Gains classic designs and be INSPIRED to decorate your home...presumably by adding shiplap, whitewashing everything and then throwing some rustic touches around. 

You can also rent several Gains renovated and decorated houses for group/family getaways in Waco.

Sounds like a very boring place. Going once is enough (Or NEVER).

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I’ve seen grain silos before. Unless these are full of booze I have no desire to sightsee grain silos. 

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23 minutes ago, HermioneSparrow said:

Sounds like a very boring place. Going once is enough (Or NEVER).

I feel like looking at the website is more than enough.  I think Jana has some aspirations of being the new Joanna Gains and as far as I can see her asthetic is exactly the same already. So I guess she just needs a Chip and 6 kids. I still don't really get it but good on Chip and Jo for turning a home decore store into like a pilgrimage of utter meaning for their disciples of design. It's all about the hype.

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11 hours ago, Grace said:

I don't really wish I had gotten married and had kids when I was 20 but I had my grandparents for such a long time and my siblings who married young have kids who fully knew their great grandparents. I am sad that won't be the case for my kids and grandkids. In the 90's it wasn't uncommon where I was from for people to be planning their wedding at the end of their senior year of high school. But they were usually engaged to someone a bit older who had a steady job at a local factory or at a bank or the grocery store or something. Not a lot of people went to college so getting married and living an adult life was the normal next step

Very true!!  My kids are 17 & almost 19. My parents are 70 & 68. My kids have gotten to grow up with young(ish) grandparents. Camping trips and vacations etc. My brother and his wife had their first baby last year. She will never know the young active grandma my kids knew. My mom has a lot of arthritis issues now and can’t get around very well anymore. I’m 43 and I would love to have grandkids before I’m 50...I’ve jokingly told my kids this. I would never honestly push my kids to have kids young but I am so glad I did!  Next year I’ll be 44 when my youngest graduates!!

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18 minutes ago, Travelfan said:

Next year I’ll be 44 when my youngest graduates!!

Hmmm, when I was 44, my youngest started preschool. :pb_lol: I'll be 58 when he graduates high school. There can be plusses and minuses to parenting at any age. I guess the positive thing is to do the best we can with what we have.

My oldest grandparent was 77 when I was born. Even though I only saw my grandparents for 1 week every year, I still consider myself fortunate that I got to know them as well as I did, and that they lived long enough for me to have real memories of them. I'm also glad that my kids get to see their 3 living grandparents much more frequently than I got to see mine. 

(I was just adding up. My grandpa was 77 when I was born and I was 40 when my son was born. We have 4 generations over a span of 117 years.)

Edited by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
paragraphs make things pretty
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