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Bro Gary Hawkins 16: In BetWeen


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NB: I scrolled back to the top of this post before submitting, to add this note - this one is not funny. It is sad and could be triggering to some.

Still Thursday morning at the camp meeting (there are two more videos from that one session! I suspect they promised some preachers they could speak who could only come on certain days). The crowd looks thinner.

A special of I Stand Amazed starts the video - very little shouting this time. Someone named Brother Daniel is introduced. He takes a long quiet time getting his Bible open, and men yell out encouragement to him. Pastor Lindsey, who had gone to sit down, comes up to him to do this:

Spoiler

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Genuine encouragement? Just showing off? Something in between? Who knows. The preacher does seem to be broken up, a bit weepy, and it sounds more genuine than these guys usually do.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+samuel+12%3A14-24&version=KJV

He says he would fail the scripture if he didn't deal specifically with the text for a moment, then says he wants to "brag on Jesus some." He connects the death of David and Bathsheba's child to the crucifixion (an innocent killed for the sins of others). David was forgiven, as Christians are forgiven, but there is still always a price for sin.

After a few minutes of general IFB-ese, he speaks of a teenage daughter he lost to suicide in 2019, which now makes me think his weeping is genuine, and some of the men there may have known he was planning to read this passage and tackle this subject, which makes their yelling encouragement before he even started make more sense.

Spoiler for sensitive content and discussion of the suicide.

Spoiler

It's a heartbreaking story, and I truly have sympathy for him and his family. Losing a child to suicide is a horror beyond belief, and I can't really judge any reaction anyone has to it.

But there are several aspects of the story that, while they could have happened to anyone, seem to connect, in my mind, with the general lifestyle of fundies, and I think are worth mentioning. Also, his reaction to it, and the fact that he made it into a message, is germane to our usual discussions of fundamentalism.

First, he described her as very involved in their church life and, while he didn't use the words "servant's heart," it sounded like she was trying very hard to be the perfect fundie daughter. He says she was her mother's best friend, and his hunting buddy, and that she was about go to a revival in Mexico with them. She had just baked cookies for a visiting preacher, an older Man of God she loved like a grandfather, and played the piano and sang the special the day he preached.

She graduated a year early from school.  She filled tablet after tablet with scripture and testimony, and wrote songs. She circled and made notes in her bible wherever salvation was described.

Second, he mentions that she was thin: "she didn't weigh 90 pounds," and trying to gain weight. Could be coincidence, metabolism, but it stood out that he felt the need to include it.

Third, she had been having trouble sleeping, enough so that her mother took her to the doctor, who had prescribed something, several weeks before this. He implies that it was only temporary, and that the doctor expected them to follow-up.

Fourth, he says they had no idea this medication could do anything bad. Again, I may be judging too harshly, since they may eschew TV and not hear all of the ads that warn you that some medications "can cause suicidal thoughts in teens and young adults," but I think of that as common knowledge. I always read all of the warnings and side-effects before taking a new medication, and would expect a parent to do so for their child. Whatever it was, it may have come with that possibility clearly stated, possibly even as a black box warning.

He describes it like this: "We did not learn until after the fact that it was a drug that really took hold of your mind, and it magnified things, that you felt like you would be in the corner. It reacts people certain ways."

I have no idea if the doctor and pharmacist actually said nothing. And, of course, it's hard to criticize anyone who has gone through such a monstrous thing for any straw they cling to, to answer the question "why?"

But there is something about the "it's the medicine's fault, and we had no way of knowing" explanation that strikes me as more likely in people who live in that fundie anti-education fog, distrusting doctors, but going to them and not doing due diligence about what is prescribed, than it would be for many parents.

Finally, she shot herself. Not that she couldn't have killed herself some other way, but the easy availability of guns, and how quickly they kill, was part of this. Her father and brother were actually not far away (they were outdoors) when she did it, and were searching for her because, at that point, they knew she was bent on self-harm.

He credits God with blinding his and his sons' eyes, so they didn't find her body, and, and for letting the sheriff take on that burden for him. He credits God with the funeral home doing their job.

Again, I hope I don't sound too critical, since this is such a "whatever gets you through" situation, but I am always uncomfortable with the need to pull the conclusion that God is doing things just for you out of coincidence or another human doing their job, especially a heartbreaking job.

He talked about the date she was saved, and yelled about how glad he is she was saved, and went on in standard screaming preacher fashion about how trials make you more in line with God, and anything that goes well is due to God's grace.

Some of his message about surviving tragedy was good - he touched on how hard it is to face up to the fact that the rest of the world goes on when yours has collapsed, and how to rejoin it as best you can, appreciating those who are there to comfort and recognizing that your helping others can comfort you.

But, as he went on and on, no longer crying, but in full-out yell-preacher mode, it felt less and less like a man who has gone on bravely from a horrible tragedy, and more like the usual preacher shtick. It made me uncomfortable wondering about the effect his turning this into a bellowing, triumphant sermon has on his wife and sons, his daughter's friends, and even on himself.

And, although he never cited anything specific, the idea of an innocent dying for someone else's sin started the whole message. Is there anyone in his life that takes this as an accusation? Does he think his sin, or someone else's, led to his daughter's death?

Maybe I'm being too judgmental - maybe I just always hear that preacher-ranting as artificial now, and it made the rest of his message seem exploitative, in my ears. But those are my thoughts, and I hope they don't hurt anyone reading this.

Here is the video, if anyone wants to watch for themselves. A link to her obituary is there, too.

I did notice, after a while, that I didn't hear any noises of kids, or see any. That may be coincidence, since there aren't usually many in view of the camera, but somebody may have been sensitive enough to suggest they be taken out for this.

Again, my heart goes out to anyone in his situation - it is horrible, and there is no one right way to respond and survive. But fundamentalism is horrible, too, and I wanted to be honest about how his description of her, of the situation, and how he has turned it into a message, struck me.

Edited by thoughtful
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17 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

No that's Reagan 3:16. He started this back in the 1980s. He had all this rhetoric around welfare queens and people blowing their food stamps on expensive foods.

And using the change from said food stamps to buy cigarettes(even though you could only receive less than a dollar in change).

Edited by smittykins
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@thoughtful I thought you handled that summary with a lot of grace and thoughtfulness. Thanks for the recap.

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4 hours ago, smittykins said:

And using the change from said food stamps to buy cigarettes(even though you could only receive less than a dollar in change).

Yeah I think the majority of people were using that change for stuff that wasn't essential. Like toilet paper.

Seriously, I remember a single mom telling how when she was struggling and on food stamps then she'd go to the store and buy a single carrot, then go back in and get a single banana... over and over until she had enough change to buy a pack of toilet paper.

@thoughtful Thanks for that recap. It's such a complex thing, and must especially be tough for these people who seem to want life to be simple and black-and-white. I feel sorry for this pastor who lost his daughter, but at the same time annoyed with the way he chooses to use the story of her death. 

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1 hour ago, EyesOpen said:

@thoughtful I thought you handled that summary with a lot of grace and thoughtfulness. Thanks for the recap.

 

46 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

@thoughtful Thanks for that recap. It's such a complex thing, and must especially be tough for these people who seem to want life to be simple and black-and-white.

Thanks for understanding the fact that I wanted to tackle it at all. I thought of just skipping it once I realized what he was talking about, but it just seemed to relate so much to how these folks have boxed themselves in with their way of thinking, and the questions that always come up, about how they would handle a true tragedy, and how much the demands they make on kids might be adding stress to the already stressful process of surviving adolescence.

Video #4 from Thursday morning, it turns out, is only about two minutes long - just Amazing Grace being played quietly on the piano, and pastor Lindsey intoning his spin on Goodman's message :roll: before he dismisses them for lunch.

He says, in a crowd this size, "there's no tellin' what this crowd will face." Thanks, pastor.

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Spoiler

The warnings of medication causing sucidal thoughts in children and teens are usually for antidepressants. I'm not sure I've ever heard it said about sleep medications. Furthermore, I can't blame the parents for trusting the doctors' prescribing and not second guessing it. I think that's overly harsh.  These people have no medical training and usually fundies second-guessing doctors doesn't end well. 

I'm not sure the medication caused it. 

You're right though about the correlation between access to firearms and suicide. There are statistics that show an increased risk to suicide with access to guns. I myself have known of many people who've committed suicide with guns. 

 

 

The Spoiler is for sensitive topic: suicide. Please don't click unless you want to. 

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Thursday evening at the camp meeting. Gary said God was there, so let's see . . .

The video starts with the end of the opening altar prayer, then they all sing one verse of What a Day That Will Be. Then a special of The Judgment, with lots of screaming from the congregation.

Spoiler

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Then It's Still the Blood, with the vocals mostly drowned out by more screaming. At least I get to hear the instrumental interludes. Then He Has.

A man comes to the front and starts screaming, running and jumping in place, and punching and kicking the air to thank God for his salvation. Ladies and gentlemen, a star is born:

Spoiler

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The musicians wait politely. Funny how the musical groups always seem to calmly go on performing, or wait with that polite, neutral face I've seen all my life on musicians waiting for their turn to play, especially in brass and percussion sections of orchestras, who often have many measures of rest. These guys are calm throughout, turning off speakers when someone gets up to testify, always ready to continue, always knowing what song comes next.

If the frenzy is heartfelt, genuine, contagious, a sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit, why aren't they ever caught up in it? Hmmmm . . . :think:

When it is clear that the screaming man is about to sit down again, the singing continues, with a mostly-drowned-out Satisfied and Jesus Stepped In, which makes my old-movie-loving mind picture Jesus putting on a pair of 1920s tap pants, or a teddy.

The singers continue, with I'm Amazed, through continued shrieking. There are also people coming up to kneel. The guy who came up earlier to scream kneels for a long time with a young man, then they share a long hug, with abdomens carefully kept apart:

Spoiler

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When the young man leaves the hug, the screamer starts again, shrieking something about the young man - sounds like "That's mah son! And ah'm God's son!" some hallelujahs and other screams. He squats and dances, leaps, and runs around. The musicians had started the instrumental introduction for another number, so they "vamp til ready," like the old-time vaudeville pros that they resemble.

Spoiler

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Shrieking man goes to his seat, and they start singing - oops, he has one more shriek in him. The musicians continue with In Christ Alone, then I'll Take Jesus. The guy in the brown jacket leaves his seat yet again, but this time it is to go to the bench altar and pray with some young women, then get another long hug across the bench.

There is a lot of hugging going on at this point. After the song ends, a woman calls out that she has a testimony. She calls out how grateful she is to be saved. They all bellow, and brown-jacket screamer gets up, turns around, yells (I think), "Stand up, my family, please!"

Spoiler

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Then he stands on his chair (which, I'm sorry to say, I can't show you, since it is just out of camera range). He yells and screams, and just enough of him comes into view that I can see that he punches and jumps (don't fall, dude!) for a while. The musicians vamp again, and he manages to get off of the chair safely, and starts to sit in it.

But, no - he isn't done! He stands up for more running and shrieking, while the band members have the self-control not to actually look at their watches. 

I bet they wish they had music stands - from my vantage point in the front row of a choir, I remember seeing various magazines on the stands of members of the brass section of the orchestra in front of me. Very handy, if disrespectful of the conductor.

Anyway, back to the camp meeting. Brown-jacket shrieker guy returns to sight, and yells one Hallelujah, almost defiantly, at the musicians, as they start the vocal part of I Love the Lord.

A man testifies about God reassuring him that He took care of his grandpa after he died.

The next song is When He Sees Me, then the musicians wait quietly, as if they know not to start the next song yet. A man yells out a testimony about being churched but not saved, until God spoke to him, then they sing Some Day.

Another waiting silence, more testimonies and some screaming. Somehow, the musicians know just when to start When I Go Home. Next, Worth It, which makes me picture Jesus in a L'Oreal ad. The congregants are mostly quiet through these two. Near the end, a man and a boy approach the bench altar and kneel. Then they stand, and the man raises an arm. The pastor and another man gesture to him and he announces "My son got saved." They all (y'know, except for the musicians :wink-kitty: ) go wild, yelling and screeching and hugging.

Spoiler

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An altar call follows, with Good Place, and In My Father's Eyes. I hope Jacob is listening, so he can hear how it actually goes. Then No One Else. The congregation is pretty quiet through these, but the rousing opening of Still the Blood (again) gets them rowdy again, and up to full shrieking volume.

This guy walks by, seeming awfully calm about his  "Jesus or Hell" message. There's a placard on the front that looked like a different message, but I couldn't see it well enough to read it at any point,.

Spoiler

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Several boys and young men seem to be doing the running around the aisles thing, and some jump up on the dais and jump up and down making wild circles with one arm, sometimes holding a handkerchief:

Spoiler

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It looks like some papers are flying through the air from the front into the congregation, but I can't tell who is throwing them or what they are. I hope nobody is taking money out of the bins, tearing up bibles, or wasting precious tracts!

One guy has a flag, but he's pretty low-energy - more of a flag-saunterer than a flag-runner. Have to be careful not to wander into Pentecostal territory, I guess.

Spoiler

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Among the yells after the song, someone screams out "I'm born again!" and gets them all going again. The musicians, tireless and still calm, sing What Could a Beggar Give a King and My Soul's Been Satisfied - the latter disappears almost completely under the noise.

A man gets up on the dais to testify, and screams hoarsely about how he's been watching the kids run around, and how, when he gets back to South Carolina, "there ain't nobody gonna be happy with what happened around here from me" (I think he's saying they've inspired him to some renewed vigor for calling out sin and preaching fire and brimstone), but he'll be able to sit back and watch his little boy and his little girl and ___ (something unintelligible). Then he lets out  rasping, threatening-sounding shrieks of "It is worth it!" over and over, as the crowd goes wild. He goes down the stairs, then back up and to the lectern.

Spoiler

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"Ah was supposed to go home this morning." Brother Lindsey asked him to stay and preach, but that wasn't the plan - the Holy Ghost wanted to preach to him. Of course.

So, it seems there was a plan for a preacher at this session, and, at some point it became clear to all of them just to let the Holy Spirit and brown jacket guy lead them all into oblivion, while the musicians played on and on.

There are several more minutes of the loudest noise yet. It goes silent when the pastor comes to the lectern and starts to speak, though. Funny how they can control the Spirit when they want to.

Another long altar call, during which the musicians put down their instruments and leave the dais,  then it's time for an offering, Pastor says, "so we can pay for camp meetin'. Got ya good and drunk, so now we're gonna ______ (undecipherable)." He jokes that if they have nothing to give, to pop a shirt button off, and drop it in loud.

As the musicians come back, he tells the group that church was always like this when he was young - well, he says "use to, this was normal," but I thought you might need a translation. Granny use to shout her waist-length hair down.

But "Don't go tellin' ever'body we're a bunch of Pentacostals - we're not!" "This is normal - you get to Heaven, this is gonna be normal. The World is abnormal, this is normal."

The musicians play a lively Bluegrass instrumental based on Gimme That Old Time Religion. Pastor tells them there are prayer cards for next year's camp meeting, and reminds them that they "paid $12,000 for them seats yer settin' in," so they need to pray. 

His deacon comes up to say how he loves preachers and missionaries and the church, and that he's run most of his race, being 90 years old. He wants to go in the rapture and beat the cotton pickin' undertaker. He mocks a neighbor who "doesn't believe anything." He tells them not to quit.

The video cuts off as the pastor is giving a final prayer.

Here is the video, in case anyone wants to hear any of it - I'm not sure I've managed to describe the noise level during some of the songs. To me, it sounded like they were working themselves into a frenzy, or faking one, rather than responding sincerely to an irresistible call from God.

 

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It's ironic that preacher made a point of saying they aren't a bunch of Pentacostals. I have to say this service is getting very shoutey and flamboyant for a Baptist service. 

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My goodness, that was a wild one!

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Gary preached at Iglesia Bautista La Gran Comisión in El Paso TX on 1/31.

I skipped the music, and listened to Gary's message.

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+18%3A15-20&version=KJV

And so we return to the wonderful world of Gary's misreadings of the book he considers perfect, sacred and unchangeable.

KJV: And if he shall neglect to hear them
Bro Gary Version: And if ah - if he shall reject to hear them,

He also leaves off the last two words.

He immediately starts in about the church being attacked, how the government, the devil and other Christians are against the church.

"Some these camp meetings have come to the part, where they wanna preach somethin' beside the bible."

The theme is When the Lord's in the Midst of It.

Gary needed his van (he says "truck," then corrects himself) towed recently, and, on the tow truck it said "Jesus Christ is the head." When he commented favorably, the guy said the truck belonged to his boss. Gary heard him cursing some, too.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+2%3A18-23&version=KJV

With many errors, reversed words, words left out, etc.

Gary doesn't care what the government or the media or the World says, "There is only two people -  two nationalities of people, and that is man and woman amen? They ain't, listen, hey, when they dahhh, when they go to the Judgment, when they go to their place, that they're plannin' ohn goin' an' they've made that decision whether it's Heaven or goin' to Hell, they'll be man or woman, whatever they was on this earth is what they gonna be, they can go to the hospital they kin go to the diff'ren' kahndsa places they kin git their uhuh things changed, they even sayin' these shots, that you takin', the vaccine that they got out there now, they're even sayin' that it put - it can take away your DNA."

Whew! The preachers at the camp meeting may have been wild, but nobody can mangle a thought the way Gary can.

He goes on. "Ah don't know if it can or not, ah have no idea, but ah can tell ya this much - if you was borned a man - a young man - as a baby,  amana tell ya, when you dah, you gon' be the same thing, amen."

God said "it wasn't good that Adam was without a man - uh, a woman."

We hear a snort - I think it's Becky.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+5%3A23-25&version=KJV

Mostly gender jokes we've heard from Gary many times, and how much he appreciates Becky, because she can do the newsletter and cooks very well. You forgot the taxes and teaching your children, Gary.

Gary has a new phone. Like the old one, it is smarter than he is.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+6%3A1-4&version=KJV

KJV: And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
BGV: And, ye fathers, promote not your children to wrath: but rang them up in the nurturin' and honoration of the Lord.

Gary mocks evolution - as far as he knows, nobody in his family ever swung from their tails.

Gary makes sure they know to explain why their children are being punished before they give them a whuppin'.  And he does his whole sickening whuppin'-worshipping routine, including how he was told it was illegal in Massashushess.

Even though what his momma did to him would be called child abuse now, Gary says "Ah look back and thank God for mah raisin's."

Watch out for those raisins, Gary.

Gary reveals that he is somewhat of a Yankees fan.

He tells them about the last night of the camp meeting, when the preacher didn't even get to preach, God showed up, two got saved, and Jacob gave his life to God. Gary got a picture of it (Jacob pledging his life, that it, not God). Jacob raised his hands in the air - some people don't like that, but it's OK, it doesn't mean you are Pentacostal.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3A18&version=KJV

More "they're going to close the churches and take your bibles" shit follows.

Gary had to miss church once, because he had shingles. He was miserable - because he had to miss church, of course.

When Gary does his "whosoever" bit, that he uses to get to "all lives matter" and mock BLM, he assures them that he has preached for Indians and Spanish people. He's even given the gospel to sodomites.

What a hero. :roll:

Edited by thoughtful
riffle
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Omg that “Thursday evening at the camp meeting” thing sounded like pure insanity. 

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Gary is in demand. Don't ask me why.

Spoiler

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Becky got some pleasant pushback:

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And Gary made a video. Now that he is in Texas, it is time for the wintertime tradition of mumbling about time zones at the beginning of his videos.

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Gary had a meeting booked for Sunday through Wednesday, but "a lot of their people got the Covid," so it got canceled. He's invited back in 2022, if the Lord tarries His coming, and if he don't that's OK, even so come Lord Jesus.

But you knew all that. Hey, I wonder if that's the gig he was so proud of in the previous post.

Gary makes reference to the martyr's book, and complains that he can never pronounce the name of it. Gary:  🦊 Fox. I know there's an e on the end, but it's just the word fox. Really.

The government just wants your money, and for you to fear them and bow down to them.

Think of all the countries "surrounding America - Chahna, Afganistan, all these different countries."

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"You say, well 'You just - you just - you're just so negative.' No, ah'm just so  - Biblical great. The Bahble - is raht."

The rich man had "the hah-dollar clothes, he had the trillon-dollar house." No, not Trump - Gary, as usual, means the rich man in the Lazarus story.

Gary rambles on about several of his favorite Bible characters. The crazy man who put on clothes when he got in his right mind, and God making clothes for Adam and Eve is his proof that "God thought a lot about clothes."

America is wasteful. His grandma didn't waste anything, because she lived through the recession.

I think you mean Depression, Gary.

"Today? Waste, waste, waste, waste. You don't think you'll be judged for wastin'. You will be. Y'know, you tell somebody, well, Chahna, or you tell somebody this country that country all those things, they're needin', well, git us an address 'n' we'll send it to ya. That's the foolishnest statement that's ever been made."

:confusion-shrug:

"Sin costses things."

He rants against healers, listing various conditions people might have, including "polo." Only God can heal them. Please, Lord, save this man:

Spoiler

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I'll be by to pick him up later, thanks!

😁

There's not much new in this video. But he is in high pissiness mode - resentful and defensive and fighting with imaginary enemies for 38 minutes.

While being pissy about people who claim to be bible believers, but won't go soul-winning (which, he says, means you are not a bible-believer), he says "You don't have to go soul-winnin', but the blood kin drop off yer hands, that's what it says in Ezekiel."

And he acts out the dripping - er, dropping blood, stroking down his palm, as pictured below, six times, then the other hand 2 times.

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Oh, and Becky posted this, after Gary made that video. I think she needs to show it to him.

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Thanks, as always, for the synopsis, @thoughtful and thanks for the link.  I watched a bit of it and was lucky to see then panning back to get the crowd shot.  Here it is.  This looks like a superspreader event.

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The yelling is so bizarre.  What is it with these people?  Have they been denied football games and just need a place to whoop and holler?  It looks more like the "Holy Rollers" that I saw back in my childhood.  Some of the pentecostal churches had services where people would get "overtaken" by the holy spirit and roll around on the floor and speak in tongues.  But, then, I also grew up near snake-handling churches.  There's a lot of crazy out there.

9 hours ago, thoughtful said:

There's not much new in this video. But he is in high pissiness mode - resentful and defensive and fighting with imaginary enemies for 38 minutes.

He certainly looks like he's in a nasty mood.  I guess he still misses his truck and hasn't been able to get anyone to buy him a new one yet.  And he hates when his services get cancelled.  I'm as surprised as you are that he keeps getting booked for appearances.  He isn't the kind of preacher that I'd bring into a church to boost attendance.  He's the kind that scares people away.  

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Ah, the impromptu testimony service! We had many of those at the Free Will Baptist (later nondenominational) church I used to belong to. Many of us loved them, because we didn't have to sit through a nearly-2-hour sermon being yelled at & insulted. You could also slip out quietly and not be noticed in the frenzy. They were tiring, if you participated; all that shouting, crying, and jumping around is emotionally draining, too. I usually went home with a migraine after a testimony service.
I found out later that some of the deacons & their wives  would get together & orchestrate them, especially if the preacher seemed to be in a bad mood. So what seemed like random, spirit-led outbursts were carefully planned, and designed to get the rest of the congregation going. If it started to quiet down, another person would leap up.
Unfortunately, the pastor eventually caught on, and would sometimes shut the whole thing down. Unless he wanted a break from his own yelling, running, jumping preaching that day. 

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New post up on Gary's Facebook.  They grifted were gifted some new boots and Gary and Jacob got new belts.  

Spoiler

1651355020_Screenshot(3123).png.f392d65dd230eec7c959738c20bf076e.png

It was really nice of someone to do this and perhaps they wanted to stay anonymous.  We don't know that though and Gary certainly doesn't thank them by name.  Once again, his deity get the full credit.

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Those look like really nice quality boots and as I have priced them out, I know they were not cheap! I have been wanting a pair but between the bad hip and now the bad foot I can only have footwear with orthotics. Apparently I have oddly shaped feet because the one time I tried on a pair of (cute!) boots at Tractor Supply, my foot got stuck in them. 😐

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On 2/3/2021 at 12:23 PM, thoughtful said:

The musicians had started the instrumental introduction for another number, so they "vamp til ready," like the old-time vaudeville pros that they resemble.

Resemble? They are. This is theatre.

On 2/3/2021 at 12:43 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

It's ironic that preacher made a point of saying they aren't a bunch of Pentacostals. I have to say this service is getting very shoutey and flamboyant for a Baptist service. 

I don't think outsiders would be able to tell the difference at first glance - it's very strange to me.

On 2/3/2021 at 3:24 PM, thoughtful said:

Gary doesn't care what the government or the media or the World says, "There is only two people -  two nationalities of people, and that is man and woman

Well that would make passport control quicker. 

On 2/3/2021 at 3:24 PM, thoughtful said:

Gary mocks evolution - as far as he knows, nobody in his family ever swung from their tails.

Don't be so sure about that Gary.

On 2/3/2021 at 3:24 PM, thoughtful said:

they even sayin' these shots, that you takin', the vaccine that they got out there now, they're even sayin' that it put - it can take away your DNA."

Ok, I burst out laughing at that point. That is the most mangled complete incomprehension of basic biology I have heard today. I would ask Gary what he thinks that would do, but I honestly don't think he knows what DNA is, other than something they convict people with on crime shows.

On 2/3/2021 at 4:51 PM, thoughtful said:

Think of all the countries "surrounding America - Chahna, Afganistan, all these different countries."

Geography also not a strong point.

On 2/3/2021 at 4:51 PM, thoughtful said:

His grandma didn't waste anything, because she lived through the recession.

I think you mean Depression, Gary.

I would say why not both, but I suspect Gary's grandmother is too young to have lived through the Depression. He's 48, so if his mother is 68 and his grandmother 88 - bump it up to 90 for a bit of leeway - and OK, 1931 means that she would have lived through it, but not quite in the same way that my grandmother (who would be 114 if she were alive) did. 

On 2/3/2021 at 3:37 PM, mango_fandango said:

Omg that “Thursday evening at the camp meeting” thing sounded like pure insanity. 

I am very torn between going "interesting foreign cultural tradition" and "batshit crazy". It's... a very long way from any faith traditions here. Hillsong is about as shouty and loud as it gets.

19 hours ago, Xan said:

But, then, I also grew up near snake-handling churches.  There's a lot of crazy out there

I still find that entire idea completely insane, mostly because it would not work with any of our venomous snakes at all. I suppose you could do it with a python, kind of like Britney! 

Edited by Ozlsn
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But the whole point of snake-handling is to use venomous snakes(to “prove” that God will protect you).  Spoiler alert:  it doesn’t usually work.

Edited by smittykins
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Gary posted this on Facebook:

1618019407_Screenshot(3134).png.9042207b234713d6dd4a6a764064ef6d.png

Anybody got an idea about what he means?  @thoughtful -- you're our best Gary-whisperer.  Do you think he means that he's got another site going up or is he decamping to Parler or some other place?  I honestly can't make sense of it.

Edited by Xan
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On 2/4/2021 at 5:45 AM, Ozlsn said:

Well that would make passport control quicker. 

:laughing-jumpingpurple:

I agree with you that the musicians are pros and I also think this is mostly performance.

On 2/4/2021 at 5:45 AM, Ozlsn said:

I suspect Gary's grandmother is too young to have lived through the Depression. He's 48, so if his mother is 68 and his grandmother 88 - bump it up to 90 for a bit of leeway - and OK, 1931 means that she would have lived through it, but not quite in the same way that my grandmother (who would be 114 if she were alive) did. 

The effects of the Depression here in the US continued from 1929 until about 1940. Gary's parents were born in 1948 and 1952, same generation as me. My parents, aunts and uncles were Depression kids and teens, and all had/have that "reuse and don't waste" habit. I sit here now with my mother's grocery list, written on the back of a scrap of paper that was used for something else, as I type!  😁

So I'd guess that both sets of Gary's grandparents felt the effects of the depression through much of their childhood and adolescence, followed up by the saving of limited materials during the war years.

@Xan, I can't make sense of  that gobbledygook either. My only thought is that maybe there is a site called "In Times Like These" that will starting on Tuesday. Google was no help.

On 2/3, Gary spoke at Iglesia Bautista La Gran Comisión in El Paso again.

They do their singing with recorded accompaniment and lyrics on a screen, with the pastor conducting:

Spoiler

image.png.1706647abfeccda68162ca3a3e665de0.png

The pastor prays, as Gary moans, asking that the people they godbothered this week will come to church, "especially that Jewish young man, Lord."

Gary: "Oh, God."

Pastor: "I pray, Lord, that he gets saved, oh how I, how I burden for him, Lord, and forgive him for _____ (several words I couldn't make out), Lord, he accepted that tract."

He goes on about how the young man has a chance to be a "true seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

After announcements and more singing, the pastor says redemption can only come from the Lord, not from politicians. He thinks too many Christians thought it could, and put their faith in him (I think he means Trump, but can't tell if he mentioned him - this guy is a mumbler), and now we deserve what we got.

He condemns the "pandemic" of Christians not wanting to go soul-winning. He quotes Gary's favorite verse, and, he may be a mumbler, but he can pronounce "reprobate" correctly!

Gary gets up, thanks them for good fellowship, and for the fact that "he got some more Mexican food on this side of eternity."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+18%3A15-27&version=KJV

Many errors, including, of course, all of the "st" endings becoming "th," Jesus being sad because He was very rich (rather than the young ruler), and the camel needing to go "through the needle of an eye."

Gary was wearing his Trump hat coming out of Sam's recently, and a woman asked "what's on your hat?" He showed her, and she said she would have been mad at him if it had been anything else.

:wtf:

He acts like scientists are claiming they made everything, rather than God, again, in his anti-evolution rant. He makes absolutely no point, even at a Gary level, that has anything to do with the verses he read.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+16%3A18&version=KJV

Peter was not a pope. You knew that. But today he adds that Peter would be pukin' if he heard anyone say he was. Lookin' down over the banister of Heaven and pukin. Hey, he got banister right this time!

"Whether you're here in this building next year, or if the Lord was to do some great maggelis - ah can't say that word - but some great miracle or whatever, and you've got a nice church buildin', or a nicer buildin' that you can turn in and make it look like a church, whatever it goes, listen hey, remember one thing, this buildin' ain't goin' to Heaven, amen?"

While he rants about "that Harris woman," he says "she hates people who say they're God."

Well, you would too, Gary.

Gary says to think about Paul, while he was still Saul - "the persecutor, the one that killed people that named the name of Christ, Harris gon' be the next one a them."

Spoiler

image.png.50f377b5788d77b600e0426e2c724d8d.png

He goes on and on about the VP being full of herself, thinking she's "some kinda woman," going to be the first woman president, thinking she's "sittin' on some kinda throne," 

He goes back and forth about whether his next reading is Mark 15:15, 15:16, 16:15 - finally:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+16%3A15-16&version=KJV

Gary says to always have someone with you when you go soul-winning, "in this day and age." Why? So you have witnesses if anyone tries to say you did something you shouldn't.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+28%3A18-20&version=KJV

If "that pagan woman" comes to church (I guess they ran into someone who identified that way while soul-winning), Gary figures she'd "need disciplin'."

That's with a long i in the second syllable - disciple as a verb, not discipline.

Gary says they explained to him that another local "Spanish church" was Southern Baptist, and he didn't realize there could be such a thing.

After coming down into the congregation to talk about discipling, Gary backs up into the floral arrangement:

Spoiler

image.png.ff1889f08214affda3b97ece6eb17152.png

Becky teases him about it, and he says "I'll take care of you tonight." Teasingly, but I can't stand that kind of teasing.

Then he says "where we at?" and she instantly answers "Number 4." Gary, you couldn't survive a week without her.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+16%3A13-17&version=KJV

He gets caught up in talking about not being afraid to soul-win, and adds a reading he hadn't planned, which someone has to help him find:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1%3A8&version=KJV

He says the people who "use the pagan thing, and the people that use the Catholic thing" (I think he means as an excuse for not converting) already know they're going to Hell.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+17%3A20&version=KJV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalms+37%3A1-5&version=KJV

Mostly read wrong.

He tells us how wonderfully God treats him, and we find out that the boots and belts came from someone named Brother Tim. He says Tim "looks at mah boy Sunday naht, he says 'Ah think it's 'bout tahm you git some new boots.' Then he tol' me, he said, 'Brother, ah wanna take you out for breakfast.' Then mah wahf come along, and ah got three - our family got three brand new paira boots. Ah got a brand new belt, mah son got a brand new belt. Ah don't know wha. Ah don't know wha God ____ (inaudible) me."

It may have been Tim's idea to buy all of that, from the start, but I can also imagine that he saw how crappy and/or ill-fitting Jacob's boots were and was concerned about his health (Jacob has had some quick growth spurts lately, and who knows what Gary and Becky had him wearing on his feet), and it somehow turned into buying things for Becky and Gary, as well.

But it all came from God, not Tim, in Gary's mind.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+corinthians+16%3A13&version=KJV

I only included new stuff - the rest was Gary's usual mix of bluster, idiocy and faux-modesty. But they seemed to like him.

Spoiler

image.png.583ce06f3615092c9c759da3c191a91a.png

 

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On 2/3/2021 at 1:29 PM, FeministShrew said:

I found out later that some of the deacons & their wives  would get together & orchestrate them, especially if the preacher seemed to be in a bad mood. So what seemed like random, spirit-led outbursts were carefully planned, and designed to get the rest of the congregation going. If it started to quiet down, another person would leap up.

This certainly had the feel of something planned, and the frenzy level died down, then re-started several times during the service.

Since it was a camp meeting, supposed to re-invigorate preachers, pastors, missionaries and evangelists, I suspect the idea to make it a wild, sermonless frenzy came from the top. Gotta send 'em out on a high, remembering how wild it was, ready to come back and pay for more chairs next year.

I found a Tim associated with some of the people Gary was with in El Paso - wonder if this is the guy who bought the boots:

https://www.2everycreature.com/

 

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7 hours ago, thoughtful said:

 I sit here now with my mother's grocery list, written on the back of a scrap of paper that was used for something else, as I type!  😁

Er... doesn't everyone do that? I'm in the same age bracket as Gary, and all my lists are basically on scraps of reused paper!

7 hours ago, thoughtful said:

He goes on and on about the VP being full of herself, thinking she's "some kinda woman," going to be the first woman president, thinking she's "sittin' on some kinda throne," 

Gary she is some kind of woman. She's also far more intelligent, kind, compassionate and Christian than Gary is. And also far, far, far (x infinity) more accomplished - and I'm pretty sure she knows exactly where she is sitting. If he wants to try and emulate her he could start by getting an actual job.

7 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Gary says they explained to him that another local "Spanish church" was Southern Baptist, and he didn't realize there could be such a thing.

For some reason I am finding this both hilarious and awful. He's winning souls to the One True Faith but only the whiteskinned ones qualify apparently - who'da thunk these missionaries to places local and afar were actually converting people?! That's not how it works, surely? (That reminds me, I need to check in on Shrader.)

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Gary has such a tiny cluttered mind that of course he didn’t realize that the Spanish church could be Southern Baptist. Even though it was explained to him I wonder if he doesn’t quite believe it. 

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Pukin’? Again with the bodily fluid references, Bro? Wouldn’t bodily fluids, especially disgusting ones, no longer be an issue in heaven? 
 

And it wouldn’t be a Bro Gary sermon without a dose of racism and sexism. 

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9 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Er... doesn't everyone do that? I'm in the same age bracket as Gary, and all my lists are basically on scraps of reused paper!

I always say that, between my Mom being a Depression kid, my junior high science teacher getting us all revved up about recycling and ecology in the late 1960s, and our family having some economic struggles when I was a kid, we are both totally programmed to reuse every scrap of paper, and hate waste of all kinds.

I wish everyone had the habit, but I've known some who don't, I'm sad to say. The idea that our planet can be destroyed by our waste and pollution, and that we need to do something to prevent it, seems to have ebbed and flowed with the political climate in the US, over the years. And some people are just entitled idiots.

Depending upon how old they are, what their schools were like, whether they grew up poor or rich, how susceptible they are to marketing (and probably a lot of other factors I'm not thinking of), people really seem to vary when it comes to understanding that waste is bad.

:sad:

9 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

He's winning souls to the One True Faith but only the whiteskinned ones qualify apparently

I don't think it was that he was doubting that "Spanish" people could be saved - he was preaching in a Spanish-speaking church, after all. I think he just couldn't connect "Southern Baptist" culturally, to Southwestern native and Latino people.

I think "Southern Baptist" is bad, in Gary's mind - not the same as "Bible-believin' church." He wants all people, of all backgrounds and ethnicities, to come to his way of believing.

I think Gary has that stupid, foot-in-mouth way of being bigoted. Anybody who believes as he does is great, in his mind, but he still stereotypes. Hence the clumsy but (he thinks) friendly references to food and other cultural things.

I don't remember hearing anything he's said to or about Black people - maybe he'd expect Becky to get a recipe for chitlins, or instruction in Gospel piano. I'm sure if he ever met a Jewish convert, he'd expect them to help him find bargains. :roll:

Gary got himself - er, Becky - a gift:

image.png.5aed475130a760fc9a9b5e368a022d55.png

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