Alyssa and John 7: Laura Ingalls, Something, Something...

[llucie]

I never really liked Disney movies as a child, found them so boring! and i would have been much happier dressing as a snowman that as Elsa or Anna, maybe it was Allies choice, not every girl is into princesses.

[formergothardite]

9 hours ago, raayx01 said:

Get beyond the plot of the movie, the older films have deeper hidden meanings unlike the crap that if Frozen. You can still be strong and be in a relationship, for instance Belle went off on her own and saw true good in a person even though they looked like a monster. It teaches you to not judge a book by its cover. Cinderella is a rag to riches story that says your dreams can still come true no matter where you start out from, who cares if it was by marriage is not a bad thing to want rot find love. Sleeping beauty is more of a nod to parents to show them that shunning your kid from all evil and overprotecting them can lead them into becoming a forever child. Frozen and Moana only have base meaning (no in depth) and we only made that way to please a certain political party. Do you actually think Disney gives a rats ass about empowering young girls. They want money. But if you want a good classic with a strong female lead than Brave was the last good one. Frozen is over played and over sung as well as Moana. And why can't we stop focusing on looks I get that it might be nice to have a black or minority lead character for once since most of the princesses were white But girls should being seeing their personality and character and relate not just always by looks. 

You realize you can literally do the exact same thing for Frozen, right? Anna realizes that person can "look" perfect but still be a monster and that she should look at a guy on a deeper level before jumping into a relationship. It teaches you not to judge a book by the cover. Kristoff shows a rags to riches story. Here is a guy who was raised poor and in the end he is in a relationship with a princess AND running his own business with his dreams coming true.  He also realizes that just because he is poor doesn't mean it is selfish for him to love a wealthy person. It is also a nod to parents to show them that shutting their children off from the world and not giving them the coping skills to deal with life can lead them to being forever children who can't handle even giving a speech in front of a crowd. 

Frozen is based of a traditional fairy tale just like the rest of the Disney movies you seem to worship, Moana is also based off traditional Pacific Island stories and when my oldest daughter watched it it led to her doing a deep dive on her own about the Pacific Islands and the amazing stories about how they were settled. I don't know what world you are living in where these stories are all about looks with no deeper meaning and no strong female lead. 

And the princess and the frog has a strong, black female lead who has her own dreams, works hard and makes plans on how to attain her goals. How much stronger of a lead do you want? 

Edited November 16, 2020 by formergothardite

[BeccaGrim]

I have 3 boys and they weren't all that excited about Frozen. But we went.  (And this is not to say that boys can't be excited about Frozen, they can, absolutely, just mine weren't.) And they loved Frozen but none of us cared for Frozen II.  Does she actually take them to the movies or do they just watch things at home? 

[Maggie Mae]

15 hours ago, raayx01 said:

Get beyond the plot of the movie, the older films have deeper hidden meanings unlike the crap that if Frozen.

I'm not really sure how to "get beyond the plot" of the film, but also look at the "deeper hidden meanings."  I will be the first one to praise and miss the old hand painted animation style. I think Snow White and Pinocchio are absolutely gorgeous, art-wise. 

 

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Cinderella is a rag to riches story that says your dreams can still come true no matter where you start out from, who cares if it was by marriage is not a bad thing to want rot find love. 

Cinderella is like 50% about animals, to be honest. It's also about a girl who wants to go to a party, so her animal friends make her a dress, while she serves her abusive family. Then, when that dress gets destroyed, a magical fairy comes along and makes her a new one. And is it really "rags to riches" if she was wealthy and her stepmother stole her inheritance and forced her to work as a servant in her own house? More like riches to rags and then back to riches, which she got based on what she looks like. The Prince was bored and the king was upset about the lack of attractive women to dance with at the party. It's 100% about looks. 

She's also said to be not vain, the opposite of her stepsisters, yet Cinderella is constantly looking at her herself in soap bubbles and fixing her hair. 

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Sleeping beauty is more of a nod to parents to show them that shunning your kid from all evil and overprotecting them can lead them into becoming a forever child.

Sleeping Beauty has the same problem as Snow White - an entire lack of agency from the main character and lack of consent. Which I suppose could be a commentary on the ruling class during the middle ages, but I doubt it. In the first scene, she's betrothed, given a gift of beauty and song, and then cursed.  Then she's hidden away, "falls in love" with a boy she meets once, and the conversation turns to boys. At least Sleeping Beauty has women with names, that talk to each other about non-boy things for a bit, even if the conversations are about housework. Cursed again, she doesn't make an active choice to touch the spindle, she's bewitched by Maleficent. 

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Frozen and Moana only have base meaning (no in depth) and we only made that way to please a certain political party. Do you actually think Disney gives a rats ass about empowering young girls. They want money. But if you want a good classic with a strong female lead than Brave was the last good one. Frozen is over played and over sung as well as Moana.

How did they make it "please a certain political party" but also "to make money." If I'm being charitable, I'd say that while corporations aren't people, they are still shaped by the people who work for them. Some of whom might even be *gasp* non-white, and push for these things. 

Couldn't it just be that they want to make money by appealing to the 40% of non-white Americans? I mean, a dollar is a dollar, even if it isn't spent by a white person. It kind of sounds like you might be one of those "left behind" Americans who feel like somehow Trump looks out for your white nationalist interests. 

 

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And why can't we stop focusing on looks I get that it might be nice to have a black or minority lead character for once since most of the princesses were white But girls should being seeing their personality and character and relate not just always by looks. 

Representation matters. Seeing minorities in media matters. It affects both how kids see themselves and how other people see them. The United States is 40% non-white. Black people, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, Asian people, all live in the United States! They have kids that go to school with your kids!  If you are actually interested in this, google "why media representation matters" - there are a number a scholarly articles and newspaper articles about this topic. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Maggie Mae

[raayx01]

Frozen is just overplayed. I babysit my neighbor a lot and all she wants to do is watch Frozen. I can't listen to Let it go One more time with out wanting to punch a hole in the wall. I don't care who sings them the song is just not good. 

Not every movie has to symbolize these things. 

And when it comes to media representation yes it does matter. But if you want to desegregate society we have to start focusing on the things that make us human or a Girl or a Boy and connect on our interest and ideas not our skin color. As well as race isn't the only thing that needs representation, but that's what Hollywood only seems to focus on right now.

I honestly don't really like Disney But one day when I do have kids I want them to focus on the true lesson of the movie. I don't need movies to show my future daughter or son to be a leader and independent, I show them that through my actions.

[Natalie22]

2 hours ago, raayx01 said:

 

And when it comes to media representation yes it does matter. But if you want to desegregate society we have to start focusing on the things that make us human or a Girl or a Boy and connect on our interest and ideas not our skin color. As well as race isn't the only thing that needs representation, but that's what Hollywood only seems to focus on right now.

 

Except that there is a huge bias to white people always being the main focus of all media.  It would be great if we didn't need to focus on race, but to try and get there we need to make it more common to represent those things.  

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, raayx01 said:

Frozen is just overplayed. I babysit my neighbor a lot and all she wants to do is watch Frozen. I can't listen to Let it go One more time with out wanting to punch a hole in the wall. I don't care who sings them the song is just not good. 

And when I babysat children when I was a teen there were some children who watched Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Snow White, over and over again until the VHS wore out and I could practically recite the movies. I didn't want to watch them again for a long time because they were so overplayed. What is your point? Seriously, what is the point with this statement because pretty much any cartoon/movie no matter how high quality it is will become tiresome if a child forces you to watch it constantly. 

3 hours ago, raayx01 said:

Not every movie has to symbolize these things.

Then why bring up the deeper meanings like that was important? You were the one who brought that up and acted like Frozen didn't have the exact same damn deep meanings that you apparently like in other movies. 

3 hours ago, raayx01 said:

As well as race isn't the only thing that needs representation, but that's what Hollywood only seems to focus on right now.

How is Moana or The Princess and the Frog focusing on race anymore than something like Snow White? The first is just a classic story from a non-white culture and the second is a retelling of a story that just happens to have a main character who is black. People pointing out that it is nice to have stories that are white people isn't focusing on race, it is just the damn truth. If that truth bothers you then it is time to do some soul searching on why, because it really shouldn't. 

3 hours ago, raayx01 said:

I don't need movies to show my future daughter or son to be a leader and independent, I show them that through my actions.

But Frozen teaches close to the exact same lesson that Snow White or Sleeping Beauty do, but you just randomly call it crap and less "deep" than those movies all without really being able to explain why. You can just say, "That cartoon isn't my cup of tea." without turning it into a moral issue.  I don't like particularly like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. It doesn't mean it is somehow more of a crap cartoon compared to other cartoon, it just means that the songs and plot aren't my favorite. It is just a personal opinion. If you don't like Frozen, just say that. Smug lecturing over a Disney cartoon that isn't any less deep than the other cartoons tends to annoy people. 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by formergothardite

[purple_summer]

I love the 90s Disney movies and don’t care for Frozen, but I’m not 5 years old anymore. I’m not the target audience anymore and that’s fine! I’m glad there’s finally some diversity in the movies even if the top franchise is still very white. That’s what I don’t get- how can you be upset about characters who “please a certain political party” when the white girls get top billing? 
 

Apparently the rest of us can’t have nice things. 

[SassyPants]

My favorite Disney movie is 101 Dalmatians.

[JordynDarby5]

I love most Disney movies Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, The Princess and the Frog, Lilo and Stitch, 101 Dalimations, the Emperor's New Groove, the Road to El Dorado, Alice and Wonderland, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, Robin Hood, the Rescuers, the Fox and the Hound, Oliver & Company, Aladdin, the Lion King, Wreck it Ralph, and Frozen. My nephew loved Frozen when he was a toddler so much that he named his dog after Elsa. Until some kid told him boys weren't suppose to like Frozen or Dora the Explorer and that ended. Its crap. He can like whatever he wants as can everyone else. None of this that's only for boys or girls crap. I haven't seen Moana yet because I don't have DisneyPlus on Xfinity. I keep hoping to find it on airing. I love stories from different places and I want more. There's stories and fairytales all over the world that would make great Disney stories. More stories from different Asia, African, Pacific islands, South American, and Native American cultures. There's probably great stories from Australia. 

[formergothardite]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:17 PM, raayx01 said:

But girls should being seeing their personality and character and relate not just always by looks. 

I just need to come back to this since you brought up The Little Mermaid as an example of one of the not crap Disney movies that people should show their daughters. How exactly are little preschool girls supposed to be seeing their personality in a teenage girl who sells her voice to be with a man she has only seen from a distance? How are they supposed to see their little preschool personalities in a teen who is apparently down with abandoning her family, changing everything about herself to live with people who kill and eat the sea creatures who grew up loving her and being her friends. It would be very concerning if preschoolers see the whole "change myself drastically for a man, abandon my family, down with killing and eating my friends" as something they can relate to as opposed to just liking the look of being a mermaid with long red hair. 

It sounds like you are just annoyed at all the inclusion and changing plot lines away from a man coming to save a woman. If that isn't what is bothering you then you should go back and read all the arguments you have made to claim Moana and Frozen are crap while the older Disney movies are not and realize that you aren't making a ton of sense. Maybe take some time to think about why these things are bothering you so much, because in the end all these movies are Disney cartoons that are a product of their times. As society changes, so does the Disney cartoons. We are at the point that no longer do people want just stories of all white people where a "prince" comes to save a woman. Society wants more diversity and that is a good thing. 

7 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

he Emperor's New Groove,

In my opinion this is the best Disney cartoon ever. It is amusing and has so many quotable lines. 

"I've been turned into a cow, can I go home?" 

[purple_summer]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

11 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

The Emperor's New Groove,

In my opinion this is the best Disney cartoon ever. It is amusing and has so many quotable lines. 

"I've been turned into a cow, can I go home?" 

Kuzco is the best Disney princess. 

[Melissa1977]

In the world, whites are a minority, but films with no-white characters are made to please a political party???

I'm astonished to read that kind of statements.

20 hours ago, raayx01 said:

But if you want to desegregate society we have to start focusing on the things that make us human or a Girl or a Boy and connect on our interest and ideas not our skin color. As well as race isn't the only thing that needs representation, but that's what Hollywood only seems to focus on right now

According to your opinion, films could be entirely made by black people for example. All of them. Not a single white actor. Why not? Skin colour don't matter... How would you feel then?

[FiveAcres]

2 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

In the world, whites are a minority, but films with no-white characters are made to please a political party???

I'm astonished to read that kind of statements.

According to your opinion, films could be entirely made by black people for example. All of them. Not a single white actor. Why not? Skin colour don't matter... How would you feel then?

I remember the fuss when Hamilton debuted with its mostly non-white cast. How dare they make a musical about the Founding Fathers and have them played by Black and other non-white actors and actresses! And then there was Disney having the gall to make the Black Panther superhero movie, with mostly non-white characters. The incels became totally unglued.  Black Panther did very well at the box office, despite its non-white cast.

Wakanda forever!

[WiseGirl]

Let's have these movies made with their original endings! Oh wait then they would be horror movies. 

I loved the books 101 Dalmations and Bambi so I was disappointed by the movies. As a young child I loved The Jungle Book. It is the first movie I remember seeing. (For some reason I fell asleep at 2001, A Space Odyssey). I loved Louie Prima. The older me learned he didn't exactly sing songs for children, lol.

Forgot where I was going with this. John and Alyssa give it up let your kids be kids, send them to school, leave the cult. That's a happy ending I can get behind.

[Lgirlrocks]

33 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

Let's have these movies made with their original endings! Oh wait then they would be horror movies. 

I loved the books 101 Dalmations and Bambi so I was disappointed by the movies. As a young child I loved The Jungle Book. It is the first movie I remember seeing. (For some reason I fell asleep at 2001, A Space Odyssey). I loved Louie Prima. The older me learned he didn't exactly sing songs for children, lol.

Forgot where I was going with this. John and Alyssa give it up let your kids be kids, send them to school, leave the cult. That's a happy ending I can get behind.

I wonder if she has anyone she could turn to if she or John wanted to consider this? Jill Dillard, who was the fundie favorite daughter, she always listened and did what she was told. The goodie too shoes. She somehow lucked out and managed to marry someone who helped her see how she was truly raised and she is in therapy getting help. Her oldest is in school. No one thought she would send her kids out for school. They use family planning. And she seems to have a good friend support system. I think Alyssa would be much happier if she did not have to home school. 

[JordynDarby5]

9 hours ago, formergothardite said:

In my opinion this is the best Disney cartoon ever. It is amusing and has so many quotable lines. 

"I've been turned into a cow, can I go home?" 

 

4 hours ago, purple_summer said:

Kuzco is the best Disney princess. 

I love that movie. Its so funny! So many great quotes. I love Kuzco wondering how Yzma and Kronk beat them back to the lab and Yzma wonders too especially since we saw them behind. Kronk pulling down a map and admitting it didn't make any sense. For Kronk the worse insult was Yzma telling him she never liked his spinach puffs. And his two idiot good and bad angels.

[OrchidBlossom]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:24 PM, raayx01 said:

Frozen is just overplayed. I babysit my neighbor a lot and all she wants to do is watch Frozen. I can't listen to Let it go One more time with out wanting to punch a hole in the wall. I don't care who sings them the song is just not good. 

So because you personally have seen it too much it is "crap" and you can discount it entirely and feel comfortable basically denigrating people who enjoy it? Interesting. Please get us a comprehensive list of all the things we are allowed to like and dislike, since apparently quality is determined purely by your subjective opinions about stuff. Can't wait to read it!

[nelliebelle1197]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:24 PM, raayx01 said:

Frozen is just overplayed. I babysit my neighbor a lot and all she wants to do is watch Frozen. I can't listen to Let it go One more time with out wanting to punch a hole in the wall. I don't care who sings them the song is just not good. 

Not every movie has to symbolize these things. 

And when it comes to media representation yes it does matter. But if you want to desegregate society we have to start focusing on the things that make us human or a Girl or a Boy and connect on our interest and ideas not our skin color. As well as race isn't the only thing that needs representation, but that's what Hollywood only seems to focus on right now.

I honestly don't really like Disney But one day when I do have kids I want them to focus on the true lesson of the movie. I don't need movies to show my future daughter or son to be a leader and independent, I show them that through my actions.

Why don’t you explain your “certain political party” comment? I feel like we need to explore this further.

[front hugs > duggs]

It's like how I saw a comment on FB yesterday that "Taylor Swift has no talent". Like her or not, like her music or not, it may not be your style. But clearly she has talent.

[Honey Beach]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:58 AM, WiseGirl said:

Let's have these movies made with their original endings! Oh wait then they would be horror movies. 

I loved the books 101 Dalmations and Bambi so I was disappointed by the movies. As a young child I loved The Jungle Book. It is the first movie I remember seeing. (For some reason I fell asleep at 2001, A Space Odyssey). I loved Louie Prima. The older me learned he didn't exactly sing songs for children, lol.

Forgot where I was going with this. John and Alyssa give it up let your kids be kids, send them to school, leave the cult. That's a happy ending I can get behind.

The original The Jungle Book is pure magic!

[Maggie Mae]

7 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

It's like how I saw a comment on FB yesterday that "Taylor Swift has no talent". Like her or not, like her music or not, it may not be your style. But clearly she has talent.

I love Taylor Swift, not so much her older materials, but I think she is amazing. And I live that she is fighting back against the industry at this point. She should own the rights to her own records. 

That being said, I understand completely if someone else would rather listen to their own music choices than mine. There are songs that I just don't like, or I'm not in the mood for. Some might be terrible, both subjectively and objectively, but people are allowed to like terrible things that don't hurt other people. 

7 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Why don’t you explain your “certain political party” comment? I feel like we need to explore this further.

I agree. I wonder if she flounced. 

I guess "Inside Out" is also "crap" to her, as it showed up after Brave. 

Man, I am still annoyed about this. Representation in media matters! We still need a black princess who gets to stay black for the entire film. 

[ophelia]

I love Taylor Swift. Especially her first albums. My little sister used to listen to them as a young teenager and somehow we really bonded through that music. Good old times.*

*I'm feeling quite sentimental nowadays.. don't know what it is - hormons, November, the pandemic.

[just_ordinary]

My biggest problem with Frozen isn’t the storyline per se. It’s nice. But a completely different story than the Ice Queen. Apart from snow there is absolutely no relation. That’s rather different than the other fairytales they just changed a bit. I wish they wouldn’t have tried to make a connection at all. It could have just stood on its own. 
I am not the biggest fan of generic power pop ballads and the manga style drawing. I preferred the old style, and that older movies dared to branch out in music styles (Princess and Frog was great in that regard though). But obviously that’s subjective and highly influenced by me growing up with the older films. I will say, the hyper focus on the Princess theme is quite off putting. They are easy to stereotype and sell, a wet marketing dream. But the real masterpieces are the other films. 
The very best movies in my opinion are Robin Hood and Aristocats. Fantastic music, fantastic artwork, fantastic characters. Bernhard and Bianca is also cute and Oliver and Company. 
In general I am very happy to see non white characters. Also very gladly as main cast. My only wish would be to also tell non white stories. Mulan, Mohana, Aladin, Pocahontas were great in that regard. Yes, Disney puts a sickening sugar coat on the story but you can always read it up if it sparks your interest. Branching out into the stories of other cultures would be great in terms of PR and money making. All cultures have wonderful tales. I do find the narrative flow of Arabic and Russian stories sometimes hard to follow, but that is mostly habituation and Disney was obviously able to bring in a more Western narrative style with Aladin. So no real problem there. Obviously it would be cool to have native screen writers and cast and thereby support the film industry in other countries and cultures, but in the end Disney will carefully decide what will maximise their profit.

[UnicornHunter]

Why does Alyssa give coffee to her toddles?! And I checked out the link to the dresses she/her stalker buys and they spent about $300 a set. That is insane to me.