2020 Election Results 3: The Longest Episode of Democracy Ever

[Twirling Dervish]

6 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Good choice.

IChicago was known for rampant voter fraud, but that was a very long time ago. I rarely am happy when one of my jokes falls flat, but, when Barack Obama first ran for president, and people would worry that bigots wouldn't vote for a black man, I would say "Never mind his race - he's from Chicago!"

Got a laugh from older folks and history buffs, and a blank stare from everyone else. I was fine with that.

There's a fair amount in popular culture about the bad old days of political machines - the Musical Fiorello (NY, not Chicago), for example.

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, State of the Union, and probably many more, portray some of the old shenanigans.

Trump wants to go back to all of that, but only if it benefits him.

Machine politics isn't all bad. I worked in the Philadelphia Democrat political structure for years and that machine is a fine tuned monster. We spent so much pre-election time and effort in getting out the vote. On election day, people are knocking on doors to encourage people to vote, providing rides to the polls and even having pizza delivered for the poll workers. Every election, republicans search and search for some evidence of voter fraud and every election they find nada. Organized and efficient aren't bad things.

[thoughtful]

3 minutes ago, Twirling Dervish said:

Machine politics isn't all bad. I worked in the Philadelphia Democrat political structure for years and that machine is a fine tuned monster. We spent so much pre-election time and effort in getting out the vote. On election day, people are knocking on doors to encourage people to vote, providing rides to the polls and even having pizza delivered for the poll workers. Every election, republicans search and search for some evidence of voter fraud and every election they find nada. Organized and efficient aren't bad things.

Oh, of course! I meant the stereotype of the corrupt ward heelers and shifty pin-striped suits of the 1910s-40s.

 

[Maggie Mae]

6 minutes ago, Twirling Dervish said:

On election day, people are knocking on doors to encourage people to vote, providing rides to the polls and even having pizza delivered for the poll workers.

A lot of these things weren't happening this year, at least not in my area, due to the pandemic. I'm wondering how much of that contributes to the closeness of this race, nationwide. Trump supporters are out there, pretending that nothing is different, but liberals really weren't canvassing or waving signs like in the past. I never saw any of my local candidates, and they usually stop by with their hand out. 

On another note, can someone explain to me how North Carolina is different than South Carolina? Why the race would be so much closer in NC than SC? And Georgia, as well? I mean, I've been to Atlanta, so that makes sense, but I don't really know a whole lot about the rest of that area of the country. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Maggie Mae

[onekidanddone]

9 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Thank them for me if they voted for Biden!

Oh yea they did. Even the one who is at school across the state mailed her’s in. 

[Kelsey]

1 minute ago, Maggie Mae said:

A lot of these things weren't happening this year, at least not in my area, due to the pandemic. I'm wondering how much of that contributes to the closeness of this race. Trump supporters are out there, pretending that nothing is different, but liberals really weren't canvassing or waving signs like in the past. I never saw any of my local candidates, and they usually stop by with their hand out. 

On another note, can someone explain to me how North Carolina is different than South Carolina? Why the race would be so much closer in NC than SC? And Georgia, as well? I mean, I've been to Atlanta, so that makes sense, but I don't really know a whole lot about the rest of that area of the country. 

NC has a lot of transplants. There's the research triangle in Wake County and then Durham has Duke. There's also a lot of transplants in Charlotte and the triad (Winston-Salem area) along with the military presence in Fayetteville.

 

[nokidsmom]

57 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

FYI for those of you unfamiliar the term "Chicago Machine" refers to the political cesspit of what was one of the most corrupt governments in the US.  Chicago is known for "vote early, vote often, and vote from the grave."

Ah yes, the days of the "Chicago Machine" or sometimes "The Machine" for short.  Remember being in college and many of the students who were not from Chicago (which was most of the school btw) were confused asking "Machine?  What's the Machine?"  Welcome to Chicago, you came here for the "urban learning experience" (school slogan) so you are going to get one.  

Even the Chicago kid still in me says "vote early, vote often" as a joke of course to Kansas-born Mr. No.

 

 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

57 minutes ago, Destiny said:

This was true in the past, but even the president's own commission on voter fraud was disbanded because they found nothing in 2016. There is no pervasive voter fraud in this country. A few people will vote fraudulently and be caught, just like every election, but the republicans themselves admit that voter fraud is NOT pervasive. There's a ton of writing and research on the topic. 

Oh I completely agree it's not a concern now, the modern voting methods make it impossible to do on any kind of scale that would matter.

I was just explaining where that talking point came from, which is so far in the past you'd think they'd have retired it by now.

However, the jokes do linger because if people around here have said "vote early, vote often" once they've said it a thousand times in the last few weeks.

ETA I typed that before seeing @nokidsmom 's comment - ha!  She's my people!

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by HerNameIsBuffy

[clueliss]

I want to know what Trump did to Fox News and the AP that has them showing more EC for Biden than everyone else.

Also - I found something other than the election results to distract me.  Law Enforcement is looking for someone local.  Took a lunchtime walk - Police in my complex and along the trail.  And my mind is distracted by an ever hovering chopper.  Fun stuff. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by clueliss

[Cartmann99]

9 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Is it wrong that I'm kind of sad that the Menace is eschewing twitter right now? I'm starting to get a little excited for a call in the evening, and gods dammit, if I've had to read his toilet musings for 4.5 years on twitter, I should get to enjoy the glorious meltdown.

Nope. He's put all of us through hell; we deserve to watch his downfall.

Spoiler

 

[Maggie Mae]

1 minute ago, clueliss said:

I want to know what Trump did to Fox News and the AP that has them showing more EC for Biden than everyone else.
 

Dubious source but https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8915363/Trump-rang-Rupert-Murdoch-rage-Fox-News-outlet-call-Arizona-Biden.html 

 

[Destiny]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Oh I completely agree it's not a concern now, the modern voting methods make it impossible to do on any kind of scale that would matter.

I was just explaining where that talking point came from, which is so far in the past you'd think they'd have retired it by now.

However, the jokes do linger because if people around here have said "vote early, vote often" once they've said it a thousand times in the last few weeks.

ETA I typed that before seeing @nokidsmom 's comment - ha!  She's my people!

I know you do because we've talked about it. I just wanted to make sure it was really really clear that you can't get away with stuff like that today. It's interesting to me how some of the bigger cities got away with stuff like that for so long.

I have a headache that may kill me and I just want to be done here so I can start celebrating (I'm pretty sure I'm doing this) or weeping uncontrollably.

[kpmom]

6 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

NC has a lot of transplants. There's the research triangle in Wake County and then Durham has Duke. There's also a lot of transplants in Charlotte and the triad (Winston-Salem area) along with the military presence in Fayetteville.

 

Yes.

I have some friends who run a bed and breakfast in the mountains of North Carolina.  They are a gay couple and tell me many gay people are moving up to the small, artsy towns in the NC mountains.  They feel because of that, and the more educated electorate than many other Southern States, NC could be solidly blue one day soon.

[Alisamer]

18 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

On another note, can someone explain to me how North Carolina is different than South Carolina? Why the race would be so much closer in NC than SC? And Georgia, as well? I mean, I've been to Atlanta, so that makes sense, but I don't really know a whole lot about the rest of that area of the country. 

I can help! North Carolina is home to Research Triangle Park, Duke University, a large network of state colleges including UNC Chapel Hill, and is (or at least was at one time) the biggest banking center south of New York. Charlotte is a pretty big city. There's a large military presence in the Eastern part of the state. There's lots of tech and science, lots of education, and lots of people from other parts of the country, especially in the cities. If you look at the county maps of which went to Biden and which went to Trump, you can pick out where the wealthier, white collar, more educated areas are pretty accurately.

South Carolina as a whole is much more rural and more blue collar, I think. There are good colleges there, but fewer of them. There's less tech, more blue collar work, and the cities are pretty small comparatively. 

The rural areas of both are pretty similar, actually, but the cities are where the differences start to show more. 

There are plenty of Trump supporters in NC though still. Like this guy.

My mom voted Biden! My dad didn't, but her vote canceled his. I'm so proud of her.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Alisamer

[Maggie Mae]

The vote early and often stuff also comes from the "cooping" that used to occur. It's rumored that it was a cause in Edgar Allan Poe's death. (Which was on election day, in 1849.) 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

31 minutes ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think Biden taking PA is more likely based on the number of votes left and where they’re coming from. GA will be really close either way!

I agree - early this am CNN said Biden is pulling 80% in the remaining counties.  If that holds he's got it.

I'm not happy that PA is as close as it is but it absolutely has more than a few pockets of Trumpers.  I've always felt PA is a lot like Illinois culturally and some of that is the split between political attitudes of much of the state contrasted with the major urban areas.

GA I'm thrilled it's so close because I didn't expect it.  I expected PA to go harder for Biden though.

 

[fraurosena]

Trump has well and truly lost Faux. 2020 is really throwing us some curveballs...

 

[Maggie Mae]

Can you imagine being this judge? Or the person who has to tell Trump that the lawsuit to stop counting was denied, because it was already done? 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/05/us/election-results#a-michigan-judge-denied-the-trump-campaigns-lawsuit-to-halt-vote-counting

10 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

South Carolina as a whole is much more rural and more blue collar, I think. There are good colleges there, but fewer of them. There's less tech, more blue collar work, and the cities are pretty small comparatively. 

The rural areas of both are pretty similar, actually, but the cities are where the differences start to show more. 

Thanks! I think my perspective of "rural" is a bit skewed, when I looked at the area on google maps it didn't appear to be very rural at all, lots of town and population centers. But the county by county map on NY Times doesn't show very many cities on any state. So your post was really helpful. Plus the white collar/blue collar divide is interesting too. 

[SassyPants]

21 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Ah yes, the days of the "Chicago Machine" or sometimes "The Machine" for short.  Remember being in college and many of the students who were not from Chicago (which was most of the school btw) were confused asking "Machine?  What's the Machine?"  Welcome to Chicago, you came here for the "urban learning experience" (school slogan) so you are going to get one.  

Even the Chicago kid still in me says "vote early, vote often" as a joke of course to Kansas-born Mr. No.

 

 

 

I’ve never been to the Carolinas, which is really odd because I think I’ve been to 43 of the 50 states. Anyhoo, we’ve had several friends from CA who have retired to NC. My niece and nephew are also thinking about relocating. My niece claims that the University areas are a lot like Northern CA, except with better seasonal changes.

[Loveday]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree - early this am CNN said Biden is pulling 80% in the remaining counties.  If that holds he's got it.

I'm not happy that PA is as close as it is but it absolutely has more than a few pockets of Trumpers.  I've always felt PA is a lot like Illinois culturally and some of that is the split between political attitudes of much of the state contrasted with the major urban areas.

GA I'm thrilled it's so close because I didn't expect it.  I expected PA to go harder for Biden though.

 

My mother's home county, York, is very heavily Trump. I won't say solidly because I know some people there who voted for Biden, but they're very much in the minority. Of course, a lot of York Countians like to fly the Confederate flag, too.  I've often asked why, but no one gives me an answer that makes any sense at all.

 

*Now that I've dissed York County, I have to say I still love the place and would move there in a heartbeat if I could. Family and all that. And the PA Dutch food, omg. And the markets, and antiques, and beautiful countryside, and just...well, despite its many faults, it's home. ❤️ 

[Cartmann99]

1 minute ago, fraurosena said:

Trump has well and truly lost Faux. 2020 is really throwing us some curveballs...

 

Can you imagine Trump calling into Fox & Friends one last time and cussing them out on the air?

[onekidanddone]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree - early this am CNN said Biden is pulling 80% in the remaining counties.  If that holds he's got it.

I'm not happy that PA is as close as it is but it absolutely has more than a few pockets of Trumpers.  I've always felt PA is a lot like Illinois culturally and some of that is the split between political attitudes of much of the state contrasted with the major urban areas.

GA I'm thrilled it's so close because I didn't expect it.  I expected PA to go harder for Biden though.

 

Maryland is like PA. While PA is blue on both sides and red in the middle, MD is blue in the middle and Mississippi by the shore to the east and the mountains in the west

[OldFadedStar]

4 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

Can you imagine being this judge? Or the person who has to tell Trump that the lawsuit to stop counting was denied, because it was already done? 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/05/us/election-results#a-michigan-judge-denied-the-trump-campaigns-lawsuit-to-halt-vote-counting

Thanks! I think my perspective of "rural" is a bit skewed, when I looked at the area on google maps it didn't appear to be very rural at all, lots of town and population centers. But the county by county map on NY Times doesn't show very many cities on any state. So your post was really helpful. Plus the white collar/blue collar divide is interesting too. 

So, I lived in Charleston, SC for a few years and I know it sounds like a large city it really isn't. They have a law there that no building can be taller than highest church steeple.. so the max stories in most buildings is around 8ish. Most buildings in downtown Charleston aren't any higher than 3 stories so it can't be nearly as populous. Columbia is the other larger city and even then it isn't even as much of a city as you see with Charlotte, NC. 

[Dandruff]

5 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

Can you imagine Trump calling into Fox & Friends one last time and cussing them out on the air?

I can.  And then imagine them cutting him off mid-rant.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, Loveday said:

My mother's home county, York, is very heavily Trump. I won't say solidly because I know some people there who voted for Biden, but they're very much in the minority. Of course, a lot of York Countians like to fly the Confederate flag, too.  I've often asked why, but no one gives me an answer that makes any sense at all.

 

*Now that I've dissed York County, I have to say I still love the place and would move there in a heartbeat if I could. Family and all that. And the PA Dutch food, omg. And the markets, and antiques, and beautiful countryside, and just...well, despite its many faults, it's home. ❤️ 

York Co is where my late Trumper friend lived.  I knew people who had voted for Trump, but this guy was an off the rails Trumper and from what I could see on his FB page his local buddies were as well.

Lots of confederate flags amongst those people which is ridiculous because one, Pennsylvania isn't exactly the deep south and two....my friend's family immigrated after the civil war so the muh heritage stuff was even more ridiculous.

I have a great-whatever-grandfather who was a confederate solider who died in a Union POW camp and you don't see me sticking the stars and bars on my car.

[fraurosena]