Hillsong

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, Howl said:

This right here.  Huge sign pointing to a financial shell game to mask the illegal use of funds. 

It's also something that has a lot of implications for their charitable status and I believe their tax status. I am hoping all the regulatory bodies get involved and do a really in depth financial audit.

7 hours ago, Howl said:

I follow a Twitter account that tracks the travels of private jets owned by wealthy ministries/wealthy ministers.  It's eyeopening.  They flit about quite a bit. 

 That they were able to send leadership in and out of Australia during the border closure periods says heaps. This is not ministry, it's business.

[Howl]

 

[Katzchen24]

On 3/13/2023 at 11:21 PM, Howl said:

I follow a Twitter account that tracks the travels of private jets owned by wealthy ministries/wealthy ministers.  It's eyeopening.  They flit about quite a bit. 

What is the name of the account? I had no idea there was even such a thing, so thankyou!

[stylites]

18 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

What is the name of the account? I had no idea there was even such a thing, so thankyou!

I don't know which one the OP had in mind, but there's pastorsplanes run by the Trinity Foundation:

 

[Ozlsn]

Hillsong documents tabled on Australian Parliament website, ACNC may change reporting requirements for religious charities.

Link is behind a pay wall, but some quotes below:

"The files include Hillsong board papers, internal working documents, bank statements and credit card records stretching back well over a decade. There are around 10,000 all up. Such is the volume that it has taken close to a week for the Parliament House tabling office to scan and upload them. The complete record is here.

Snippets from the document trove, reported so far, have revealed spending on luxury items such as a Cartier watch and Louis Vuitton luggage for a select group at the top of the church."

...

"The whistleblower documents also raise serious questions about the federal government’s special treatment of religious charities. Under a decade-long arrangement, church-run charities are exempt from disclosing financial information to the charities regulator. This has effectively created a secret haven, virtually beyond regulation, for all religions in Australia, not just Hillsong. "

Interrupting my quoting to say WTAF here? I volunteered with a small charity (ACNC definition is <$250K/year turnover) and we had to have all books available on request. Why this doesn't apply to charities operating under one of the definitions (religious purposes) but does to charities operating under others (e.g. health and medical research) I do not know.

"Justice Connect also questioned why there was no limit to the size of “basic” religious charities — some of which, it pointed out, may be large entities that would otherwise have more robust reporting requirements given the amounts of money involved. 

“We also note that community expectations concerning the level of transparency and accountability that religious organisations should adhere to and be subject to, has likely changed over the last five years,” the submission added, referring to revelations at the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse."

Also WTAF from me here. If you are a medium ($250K to um, millions? I think) or large charity you are required to have an annual independent audit, and produce a public annual report with transparent disclosure. This is utterly absurd that there is a one size fits all religious purpose charity exemption from these requirements.

Also, The great money go around: the scam delivering a fortune to megachurch pastors

"Hillsong founder Brian Houston received hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax-free honorariums for speaking at churches run by his pastor friends, as part of a round-robin arrangement that has delivered huge wealth to the pastors of international megachurches.

The Hillsong papers tabled by independent MP Andrew Wilkie, now publicly available, show Houston has been paid in the range of US$10,000-$30,000 for appearing at churches run by his friends as well as churches in the extended Hillsong “family” of churches. The payments add up to more than $1 million during the 10 years from 2011. "

To be honest this is probably the tip of the iceberg as far as the scam of transferring money from parishioners to pastors goes. $1 million in 10 years is still a bloody good tax free salary.

[Antipatriarch]

On 3/17/2023 at 11:49 PM, Ozlsn said:

Interrupting my quoting to say WTAF here? I volunteered with a small charity (ACNC definition is <$250K/year turnover) and we had to have all books available on request. Why this doesn't apply to charities operating under one of the definitions (religious purposes) but does to charities operating under others (e.g. health and medical research) I do not know.

Also WTAF from me here. If you are a medium ($250K to um, millions? I think) or large charity you are required to have an annual independent audit, and produce a public annual report with transparent disclosure. This is utterly absurd that there is a one size fits all religious purpose charity exemption from these requirements.

Agreed. Same problem in the U.S.; churches and religious para-church organizations get all kinds of exemptions from the usual things that non-profits are required to do (like filing a Form 990 that discloses executive compensation etc.), and they get extra benefits that other non-profits don't (like the "parsonage allowance" that basically shields pastors from what would otherwise be taxable income).

And yet they can't even abide by reasonable concessions like the Johnson Amendment (that used to prohibit pastors from telling their congregants from the pulpit who they should vote for; due to lack of enforcement that's essentially dead law now). It's basically, "We want all the privileges and none of the responsibilities, because we're special™️ ." And at the same time, "We're so perrrrrrsecuted!"

I'm an unbeliever but I do admire any organization that contributes to human well-being. Groups like Catholics and Lutherans that help people have my support. But I feel it's reasonable for them to play by the same rules as every other group.

[stylites]

Incidentally, the badly handled sexual harassment scandals keep coming in, the Daily Telegraph in Aus featured a case in their last podcast, summary here (posted an archive link to get past the paywall).

https://archive.is/IpPv2

It's part of the series that they trailed here:
 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by stylites

[Howl]

Never let adultery keep a good man down!   Carl Lentz is back in the game! 

Carl Lentz, in first staff position since Hillsong, joins Transformation Church in Tulsa

‘We gladly welcome Carl Lentz to our Transformation Church staff, helping TC with strategy as we continue to move forward in our vast vision,’ said one pastor of the predominantly Black megachurch.

...and a bit more about the whole "Yo, I've repented and I'm baaaaaaack" dealio: 

Christians Love a Comeback Story. Too Often It’s Cheap Grace.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Howl

[Pecansforeveryone]

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/fired-hillsong-pastor-carl-lentz-first-interview-fx-docuseries-secrets-1235566614/

As further part of his return to "ministry" Carl and his wife Laura will sit down for their first interview since Carl's firing from Hillsong. 

[Howl]

46 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

As further part of his return to "ministry" Carl and his wife Laura will sit down for their first interview since Carl's firing from Hillsong. 

Yup, the Reputation Rehab tour!  From the Religious News article linked above:  "Lentz...has launched a consulting and coaching business and his clients include churches...After two years of Carl being in his own discovery and healing process, he has shown readiness to use his God-given gifts towards the local church again. We believe in Carl, his marriage, his skill set, and his restoration,” McQuarters said."

Rough translation:  He is going to make our mega church an immense SUPER MEGA CHURCH.  So, game plan: We're going to ignore his past and call it good because, dude,  we are going to get so damn big and make so much money!

Read this article to the end; Transformation church is staggeringly wealthy.  They are investing in high dollar real estate.

Not a good place for a man with underlying moral weakness and a serious problem in regard to infidelity.  I'll guess his salary in the $200,000 to $300,000 range. 

 

[Mrs Ms]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

 

Not a good place for a man with underlying moral weakness and a serious problem in regard to infidelity.  I'll guess his salary in the $200,000 to $300,000 range. 

 

Before he starts embezzling or misappropriating funds…

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/fired-hillsong-pastor-carl-lentz-first-interview-fx-docuseries-secrets-1235566614/

As further part of his return to "ministry" Carl and his wife Laura will sit down for their first interview since Carl's firing from Hillsong. 

I cannot get over the utter bullshit that this is. Ministry my arse, it's the magical handwavey forget-my-sins-and-let-me-back-in-the-moolah tour. I wish these guys would be forced to just sit the hell down and shut up. Get an actual job. Not assume everything is all about them, and actually do some damn community service without needing it to be a production starring themselves.

[Howl]

This is the most insightful take on these "restored" pastor guys that I've ever seen.  Now it all makes sense.  They HAVE TO GET BACK IN THE GAME to recharge their narcissistic supplies and churches are their enablers. 

"It’s maddening. If alcohol or drugs were his problem, you wouldn’t restore him back to using again. So what makes them think that giving a narcissistic, abusing, adulterer a platform, fame, and power is in any way restorative!!"

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Howl

[Jasmar]

And yet they bray about No True Scotsman when asked why so many of us have left the church.

[Katzchen24]

Brian Houston was charged with drink driving in the US in 2022.

Spoiler

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/29/brian-houston-hillsong-former-leader-pastor-dui-drink-driving-charge-california

The same article also said that court hearings into the charges against Houston would resume in June. 

Without wanting in any way to make light of the behaviour of Houston in relation to the cover-up of abuse at Hillsong, all we need now is an accusation of infidelity and we'll be able to set a timer for the start of the redemption tour.

[stylites]

On 4/6/2023 at 5:39 AM, Katzchen24 said:

Brian Houston was charged with drink driving in the US in 2022.

  Hide contents

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/29/brian-houston-hillsong-former-leader-pastor-dui-drink-driving-charge-california

The same article also said that court hearings into the charges against Houston would resume in June. 

Without wanting in any way to make light of the behaviour of Houston in relation to the cover-up of abuse at Hillsong, all we need now is an accusation of infidelity and we'll be able to set a timer for the start of the redemption tour.

"“I made the foolish decision to drive just 2 or 3 hundred metres (yards) to park the car and I am grateful to God that no damage or injury occurred,” he wrote."

This seems .. unlikely unless you were incredibly unlucky to have the police show up as you were moving your car, or had an accident that caused them to be called.

[Ozlsn]

Yeah. That does not sound likely. Also depending on how long it took to do the BAC... the actual level at the time of driving could have been a lot higher. I'm wondering if someone dobbed him in.

Meanwhile an A Current Affair reporter was thrown out of the church by security after doorstopping the current leader. To be honest ACA is a total tabloid which I would normally just roll my eyes at but hey if they keep the pressure on then go for it.

Also The Christian Post is reporting that Hillsong lawyers have said that an independent audit has found no illegal activity.

My take on this is twofold - they may well be within the letter of the law. The problem they have is the perception of corruption. People (in general) understand that large charities have overheads, and that some % of donated funds go to keeping the charity running. There are exceptions to this of course (both in terms of charities funding overheads through other means and people getting angry that 100% doesn't go to wherever the cause is) but overall it's kind of accepted that you need people to manage the funds, keep the paperwork, run the campaigns etc. and this has to be covered somehow. People (in general, again) get less upset with Tim Costello, Baptist minister, being paid $259K/year as CEO of World Vision Australia because it's not perceived as being wildly over the top (also pretty sure he paid tax on that). Houston being paid over $1M/year by Hillsong, plus all the extras... is not exactly seen as being reasonable or in line with community expectations for renumeration of ministers of religion (also we all suspect he fudged the tax). At this point I think the perception is likely to be what causes tightening of regulation around ACNC rules, and which will impact on a lot of charities who are trying to do the right thing on limited resources.

[Ozlsn]

So more leaking of Hillsong finances, including this on twitter this morning:

 

Pictures in spoiler:

Spoiler

 

Can honestly say I've never gotten an $11K birthday gift from my employer, no wonder Lentz wants back in on the gravy train.

[Antipatriarch]

The entitled mindset of these megachurch rock stars is just obscene. The "WWJD?" yardstick is often used poorly, but in cases like these, I just scratch my head and wonder how they can possibly reconcile the Jesus of the Bible with how they live.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Mega churches basically work like a mini monarchy. Just look at European history to catch my meaning. In hillsong Carl Lentz was a prince until he was overthrown. He had huge amounts of power just like a few of the other pastors. Some are kings while others are princes. They have ridiculous amounts of money and power over people. All while their peasants (parishioners) are tithing what little money they have so the king pastors can buy a new Rolex or Tesla. 

[Ozlsn]

Hillsong agreed to pay the Houstons $350K/year pension

I mean... nice work if you can get it. Seriously though, WTELF?! Article quotes in spoiler:

Spoiler

Hillsong Church agreed to a retirement package for founder Brian Houston and his wife, Bobbie, in 2010 worth AU$350,000 or more in collective annual cash compensation, including health insurance if he chose to live outside Australia, plus potential housing and property maintenance assistance, according to church documents reviewed by The Christian Post.

Minutes from a Hillsong Church board meeting held Nov. 2, 2010, at the Four Seasons Hotel in Sydney, New South Wales, and shared with CP, showed that Hillsong's board agreed to pay Houston and his wife a collective AU$350,000 annually in indexed compensation along with other benefits at the meeting.

Just did the translation, that's $USD235,850.43 per year. Plus health insurance if they decide to live outside Australia (or presumably New Zealand).

Oh my bad, it was also indexed:

Spoiler

Indexed compensation means compensation is "adjusted to reflect increases in the average wage to the year of pension commencement." The 2023 value of AU$350,000 from 2010 is over AU$500,000 ($335,000), according to InflationTool.com.

"Discussion took place regarding BCH's [Brian Houston's] desire to do less international ministry in 2011 and to provide greater focus on Hillsong Church and the need to formalize a retirement package to offer them," minutes from the meeting prepared by Megan Ivory explain.

Again, nice work if you can get it. But wait, there's more - Brian's alleged drink driving BAC.

Spoiler

The revelations come as records from the Superior Court of California in Orange County show that Houston was arrested on DUI charges in February 2022, less than a month before he resigned as global senior pastor of Hillsong Church in March 2022 after revelations that two women made complaints of misconduct against him in the last 10 years.

Court documents reviewed by CP allege that Houston had a blood alcohol content of 0.20% or more, which addiction experts classify as the "blackout drunk" stage.

That is not even close to a legal driving limit. It does explain why he thought moving the car was a good idea, and probably also why the police were called.

But wait again, there's more!

Spoiler

Hillsong's finance manager was also tasked with examining whether the church would offer protections for the surviving beneficiary should one of them die "and also if necessary, the guarantee of a manse."

I know Sydney housing prices are ridiculous, but really?!

Spoiler

It was revealed that the board agreed in 2009 for the church to gift the Houstons AU$250,000 to celebrate Hillsong's 25th anniversary. The meeting notes from 2010 noted that the sum had not yet been paid.

Oh good. Unless it was listed on a credit card as a gift somewhere I suppose.

[stylites]

On 4/18/2023 at 8:52 AM, Ozlsn said:

  Hide contents

It was revealed that the board agreed in 2009 for the church to gift the Houstons AU$250,000 to celebrate Hillsong's 25th anniversary. The meeting notes from 2010 noted that the sum had not yet been paid.

Oh good. Unless it was listed on a credit card as a gift somewhere I suppose.

The thing is, the Houstons only stepped down in 2022.  I imagine of the sums above have been significantly gilded in that time.

[Ozlsn]

Houston pleaded guilty to DUI charge. Changed his plea last week to guilty to driving with a BAC over 0.08.

Spoiler

Days after pleading “not guilty” to driving under the influence of alcohol and driving with a blood alcohol content of .08% or more, Hillsong Church founder Brian Houston pled “guilty” to the charges and was sentenced to three years’ probation, a $140 fine and other penalties.

He is yet to be sentenced for an enhanced charge of driving with a blood alcohol content of 0.20% or more, which addiction experts classify as being "blackout drunk." Sentencing for that charge was “stayed” which the Shouse California Law Group explains happens “when a defendant in a criminal case asks the court to stay, or pause, execution of the sentence until an appeal is heard.”

Sentencing for the formal charge of driving with a blood alcohol content of .08% or more, which covers the enhanced charge, was stayed on April 11 when Houston changed his April 4 “not guilty” plea to “guilty,” according to records from the Superior Court of California in Orange County.

Court records show that after an arrest on Feb. 26, 2022, Houston pled “not guilty” to driving under the influence of alcohol, driving with a blood alcohol content of .08% or more, and failing to display two license plates on the vehicle he was driving.

A week ago, the Hillsong Church founder, who was set for a pre-trial hearing in June, reversed course on the drinking charges while the charge for failing to display two license plates on the vehicle he was driving was dismissed.

In addition to the three years’ probation and $140 fine that Houston received for the general charge of driving under the influence of alcohol, the court also required that he complete a three-month first offender alcohol program by May 11; victim impact counseling by July 10; and participate in self-help meetings for a period of one year until April 11, 2024.

Houston was arrested less than a month before he resigned as global senior pastor of Hillsong Church in March 2022 following revelations that two women had made complaints of misconduct against him in the last 10 years.

The megachurch founder, who resides in Australia, recorded as having a blood alcohol concentration of 0.20% or more by weight pursuant to Section 23538(b)(2) of the Vehicle Code. 

According to the Kraut Law Group, DUI defendants hit with an enhanced charge under Section 23538(b)(2) of the Vehicle Code usually "face harsher penalties" from the court if they are convicted.

"Drivers who are convicted of the DUI and this enhancement are required to take a longer alcohol education program and often face harsher penalties," the law group explains on its website. "A BAC of 0.20 percent is two and a half times the legal limit and drivers who have high BACs are more likely to cause collisions while on the road. As a result, the California legislature has increased penalties for drivers who drive under the influence with high BACs, even if they have no prior DUI offenses."

A judge might also require defendants to "attend weekly Alcoholics Anonymous meetings as a condition of release or may even require that the defendant wear an alcohol monitoring bracelet while the criminal case is pending," the law group adds on its website. 

Older article detailing how much churches paid to be part of the Hillsong "family"

The paragraph in this article that got me was:

"Nearly 40 churches around the world paid up to $100,000, or 3% of their tithes and offerings, to Hillsong Church annually to be a part of the Hillsong Family network, which a whistleblower has alleged offers access to a global honorarium scheme meant to funnel additional income into the pockets of celebrity pastors through sophisticated means."

This includes churches in North and South America, Europe, Africa, Australia and Indonesia. Seriously if you're funnelling money from some of the lower income regions of the world into your own pocket you have to start questioning your spiritual "values".

[JermajestyDuggar]

Most of the very rich mega pastors taking money from people living paycheck to paycheck or below the poverty line lie to themselves a lot. They tell themselves they are helping people with the money. They are buying fancy airplanes and cars so they can get around to spread the word of god. They convince themselves that god wants them to have these things. All while completely ignoring this verse:

“It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

[stylites]

On 4/25/2023 at 11:33 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Most of the very rich mega pastors taking money from people living paycheck to paycheck or below the poverty line lie to themselves a lot. They tell themselves they are helping people with the money. They are buying fancy airplanes and cars so they can get around to spread the word of god. They convince themselves that god wants them to have these things.

"You buy a piece of paradise, You buy a piece of me"